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[sol_bad]

Thor stole Mjolnir from Thor in that other timelime, leaving Asgard's defender weaponless, lol. The time travel gimmick was so, so, so bad.

Steve returned Mjolnir at the end of the film.

 

[VAL0R]

Steve returned Mjolnir at the end of the film.

He took it with him, but did they say he returned it? I honestly don't remember, but you may well be right.

 

[Rentahamster]

Thor stole Mjolnir from Thor in that other timelime, leaving Asgard's defender weaponless, lol. The time travel gimmick was so, so, so bad.

No he didn't. Cap replaced it right after Thor took it.

 

[sol_bad]

He took it with him, but did they say he returned it? I honestly don't remember, but you may well be right.

It's not specifically mentioned but why would Cap want to keep it? He is returning to the past to live an easier life.

 

[Rentahamster]

He took it with him, but did they say he returned it? I honestly don't remember, but you may well be right.

He went to the past with the intention of returning the stones and Mjolnir.

 

[BlackTron]

Yeah, why have character driven drama and plot when you can have more action?

Disney needs to dump these Russo hacks and get Micheal Bay.

Who needs story when you have SPLOSIONS!

I prefer a mix of both. See: The Winter Soldier/Civil War

In fact, both of these had a superior character-driven drama AND balance of action scenes.

It's not as much of a problem if you think of IW and Endgame as one longass movie. But then, I already said that.

If you think Michael Bay could make Winter Soldier, then great.

Otherwise, no. That's not what I want.

 

[Raziel]

Yeah, why have character driven drama and plot when you can have more action?

Disney needs to dump these Russo hacks and get Micheal Bay.

Who needs story when you have SPLOSIONS!

thats the thing though - this isnt some masterpiece story or character drama.

when i think of character drama, the first cbm i think of is logan.

and logan STILL paces/spaces its action better.

 

[manfestival]

thats the thing though - this isnt some masterpiece story or character drama.

when i think of character drama, the first cbm i think of is logan.

and logan STILL paces/spaces its action better.

Logan isn't a masterpiece story or character drama either... you are gonna need a better example

 

[Raziel]

Logan isn't a masterpiece story or character drama either... you are gonna need a better example

much better than endgame though.

 

[manfestival]

much better than endgame though.

Can you provide a better example than Logan like I had requested?

 

[Raziel]

Can you provide a better example than Logan like I had requested?

batman mask of the phantasm - stellar story and character work.

 

[WhiskeyDiver]

I saw the movie. It was alright. My biggest gripe is how Captain Marvel just felt so fucking forced. She didn't feel organic at all when it came to meshing in with the plot, characters and settings of the movie. Her large absence throughout most of the movie didn't help matters either. Also she full on no sold a headbutt from fucking Thanos? THANOS? The same guy that beat the living shit out of Hulk without assistance from the gauntlet? Come the fuck on. It should have hurt her real bad, but no, she's the new golden child of the Marvel movie franchise for the moment...but it made me wonder why they didn't go with a much better known character even more so.

 

[Thurible]

I liked it, but the time travel mechanics are just awful and contradictory. So it was kind of explained as more like traveling to parallel dimensions that are in different times. So why does Captain America become old when he travels back and stays in the past? Shouldn't he be living in an alternate reality and not the original one? What about Loki, is he still dead now that alternate him is alive? I have a lot of questions.

 

[Rentahamster]

So why does Captain America become old when he travels back and stays in the past?

Because he went back decades, stayed there, and lived out those years.

Shouldn't he be living in an alternate reality and not the original one?

He was. Then he somehow got back to the original timeline via a means that is unknown to the audience.

What about Loki, is he still dead now that alternate him is alive?

He's dead in the original timeline. Assuming the alternate timelines all end up with Thanos killing Loki too, Loki's dead in those realities too once it gets to that certain point in time.

 

[Thurible]

He was. Then he somehow got back to the original timeline via a means that is unknown to the audience.

Really? I thought we were just supposed to assume that he lived out the rest of his days in the past and that past was somehow the real past because he is in the original timeline, thus mixing up time travel rules.

He's dead in the original timeline. Assuming the alternate timelines all end up with Thanos killing Loki too, Loki's dead in those realities too once it gets to that certain point in time.

Are we sure? If past alternate thanos can be destroyed in original timeline's present and have no effect on the original timeline, then why would past alternate loki have to die in the same way and timeframe as the original real timeline loki? Also, his whole shpeal is that he is a trickster that can outmanuever death and fake it to everyone.

 

[Rentahamster]

Really? I thought we were just supposed to assume that he lived out the rest of his days in the past and that past was somehow the real past because he is in the original timeline, thus mixing up time travel rules.

The directors said that the rules are the rules, so it doesn't follow Terminator style predestination time travel rules. The timeline where Old Cap lived out his life was a different timeline, and the only way to get back to the original timeline is to do a jump. So he did that somehow, and we aren't told what that was..

Are we sure? If past alternate thanos can be destroyed in original timeline's present and have no effect on the original timeline, then why would past alternate loki have to die in the same way and timeframe as the original real timeline loki? Also, his whole shpeal is that he is a trickster that can outmanuever death and fake it to everyone.

I'm just speculating what can happen in the alternate timelines assuming everything plays out the same way. The only one that for sure wouldn't end up with Loki getting killed by Thanos is the GotG timeline since that Thanos doesn't exist there anymore because he jumped to our timeline.

Original timeline Loki is dead though. Thanos killed him in Infinity War. So unless a Loki from another timeline decides to jump into our timeline for some reason, there is no more Loki in the original timeline.

 

[sol_bad]

Are we sure? If past alternate thanos can be destroyed in original timeline's present and have no effect on the original timeline, then why would past alternate loki have to die in the same way and timeframe as the original real timeline loki? Also, his whole shpeal is that he is a trickster that can outmanuever death and fake it to everyone.

You saw what happened with Nebula? Past Nebula murdered, present Nebula still alive. The "past" doesn't affect the present.

The reality where Loki escapes with the Tesseract, it could play out completely different to the present mainline timeline. It doesn't have to play out the same way. He may have gone straight back to Thanos and become his henchman, he may have returned to Thanos and Thanos killed him straight away. He may have teleported somewhere else to look for allies. If Loki is hiding from Thanos, Thanos may never collect the 6 infinity stones. There are many possibilities for that reality now on a grander scale.

 

[Thurible]

You saw what happened with Nebula? Past Nebula murdered, present Nebula still alive. The "past" doesn't affect the present.

I agree that what happened with Nebula is an example of how time travel works properly in the film, but then we get what happens to Steve and that throws the pre-established rules out the window unless we assume what Rentahamster says could have happened behind the scenes actually occurred (which I don't see happening as how would Steve travel back to the maintimeline without using the timetravel device he was given?).

The reality where Loki escapes with the Tesseract, it could play out completely different to the present mainline timeline. It doesn't have to play out the same way. He may have gone straight back to Thanos and become his henchman, he may have returned to Thanos and Thanos killed him straight away. He may have teleported somewhere else to look for allies. If Loki is hiding from Thanos, Thanos may never collect the 6 infinity stones. There are many possibilities for that reality now on a grander scale.

I agree, alternate loki could be doing G-d knows what. He doesn't have to be dead and for all we know he could be like his original evil self instead of his anti-hero(ish) main self. Since the time travel rules seem a bit wonky I wouldn't be surprised if they just say "he's still alive" and put him in another movie or something.

 

[Rentahamster]

unless we assume what @Rentahamster says could have happened behind the scenes actually occurred (which I don't see happening as how would Steve travel back to the maintimeline without using the timetravel device he was given?).

You don't have to assume that.

'Avengers Endgame' directors answer Captain America mystery

The ending to the Marvel Studios epic has left fans with some questions.

ew.com

In the end, Steve Rogers goes on a solo trip to restore the Infinity Stones from the other time dimensions to the moment they were taken, thereby bringing them back into alignment with the main timeline.


He also takes Thor’s Mjölnir hammer, though not necessarily as his own weapon. That has to be taken back to The Dark World era to set the timelines straight, too.


But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.


So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?


The directors say it’s the latter.


“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”


The brothers smile.


“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”

Since the time travel rules seem a bit wonky I wouldn't be surprised if they just say "he's still alive" and put him in another movie or something.

They're not that wonky. They're solid. Assume they're solid, and the rest of the events and potential events can be explained from there.

If Loki is "still alive", then either he faked his death in the original timeline, got resurrected in the original timeline, came from an alternate timeline, or the movie is set in one of the alternate timelines.

 

[sol_bad]

I agree that what happened with Nebula is an example of how time travel works properly in the film, but then we get what happens to Steve and that throws the pre-established rules out the window unless we assume what Rentahamster says could have happened behind the scenes actually occurred (which I don't see happening as how would Steve travel back to the maintimeline without using the timetravel device he was given?).

I have seen the film twice, on the 2nd viewing I totally forgot to look at Cap's hand to see if he had the device on his hand. Even if it's not there, it doesn't mean he didn't use it. Banner does say that he "missed his time mark" or something to that affect, I think that means he missed the time travel pad. Ultimately we know that the time travel pad isn't really needed as they land in 2012, 2013 and 2014 without a pad and also Tony/Steve travel from 2012 to 1970 without a time travel pad.

 

[Thurible]

You don't have to assume that.

'Avengers Endgame' directors answer Captain America mystery

The ending to the Marvel Studios epic has left fans with some questions.

ew.com

They're not that wonky. They're solid. Assume they're solid, and the rest of the events and potential events can be explained from there.

If Loki is "still alive", then either he faked his death in the original timeline, got resurrected in the original timeline, came from an alternate timeline, or the movie is set in one of the alternate timelines.

I have seen the film twice, on the 2nd viewing I totally forgot to look at Cap's hand to see if he had the device on his hand. Even if it's not there, it doesn't mean he didn't use it. Banner does say that he "missed his time mark" or something to that affect, I think that means he missed the time travel pad. Ultimately we know that the time travel pad isn't really needed as they land in 2012, 2013 and 2014 without a pad and also Tony/Steve travel from 2012 to 1970 without a time travel pad.

Ok, maybe I misunderstood.

 

[Pagusas]

Very surprised to learn the final Iron Man line "I am Iron Man" was a pickup shot done wayyyy after the fact. Apparently the original scene didnt have Iron Man saying anything, and just snapping. But it wasnt working during final editing, so they brought RDJ back to get that line in (and apparently had to convince him to come back)

Avengers Endgame director reveals what RDJ’s last day on set was like

Joe Russo, director of Avengers: Endgame, has revealed what Robert Downey Jr’s last day on set was like.

www.hindustantimes.com

Joe and his brother, Anthony, had detailed in a previous interview that Downey Jr had to be convinced to return to film Iron Man’s famous ‘I am Iron Man’ line in the film, which was a last minute addition and was shot in January, 2019. He said that upon viewing the scene, which initially did not have Tony Stark saying anything in response to Thanos’ ‘I am inevitable’ line, they realised that the scene wasn’t working. The Russos credited longtime editor Jeff Ford for coming up with the line.

 

[kunonabi]

The whole jumping thing isn't solid. They make a big deal of using the quantum tunnel to enter the quantum realm but once you jump once you can just hop from one timeline to another all willy nilly.

 

[ResilientBanana]

He took it with him, but did they say he returned it? I honestly don't remember, but you may well be right.

You can return it seconds after you took it. Time travel , duh.

 

[VAL0R]

You can return it seconds after you took it. Time travel , duh.

Right, time travel can solve any problem. Want one million hammers? Bring the hammer back an instant before you took it. Now you have 2. Take the two back an instant before you took it and now you have 3. Rinse and repeat. One-MILLioon trooops. Woooow.

 

[pramod]

Btw anyone think this would have a neat scene?

After Hulk does the snap, he gets transported to the Soul world like what happened to Thanos. There he meets a young Natasha who is at peace and tells him eveything will be alright and they get to say last goodbyes. There wouldn't be a dry eye in the theater and would have been a nice way to add some closure to the Bruce/Nat thing.

 

[BlackTron]

Btw anyone think this would have a neat scene?

After Hulk does the snap, he gets transported to the Soul world like what happened to Thanos. There he meets a young Natasha who is at peace and tells him eveything will be alorghr and they get to say last goodbyes. There wouldnt be a dry eye in the theater and would have been a nice way to add some closure to the Bruce/Nat thing.

That's actually a great idea. Missed opportunity, especially because I thought Nat's death needed a bit more emotional resonance. It just felt a bit off to me.

 

[sol_bad]

That would have actually been a beautiful scene. It is a missed opportunity. It is possible that Thanos saw young Gamora because he sacrificed for the soul stone and did the snap. Whereas with the Avengers, Clint did the "sacrificing" and Hulk did the snapping, they are disconnected in a way.

Just saw it a 3rd time, I tear up when Clint loses it and tells Thor to go talk to the floating red guy about Nat. It's personally some of the best acting I have seen from Renner.

 

[Mingen]

We'll remember you, Tony Stark.

 

[PlaneRab]

it'll be fun if Tony stark comes back in a few years

 

[Sniper McBlaze]

Btw anyone think this would have a neat scene?

After Hulk does the snap, he gets transported to the Soul world like what happened to Thanos. There he meets a young Natasha who is at peace and tells him eveything will be alright and they get to say last goodbyes. There wouldn't be a dry eye in the theater and would have been a nice way to add some closure to the Bruce/Nat thing.

Very glad they didn't do that. It was enough that they revisited Vormir and did the whole sacrifice bit again. It would also make what happens after that less tense since we know "it's going to be alright". And Black Widow is boring so I'm glad she's gone. Felt nothing when she died. Let's hope Emo Hawkeye and Falcon are next to die.

 

[pramod]

Plothole question #12515:

Why did they only ask Thor for help and not Valkyrie's? I mean here you have an Asgardian super-warrior lady, and one of the few remaining super-powered good guys on your side that survived the snap, and you don't even ask her if she wants to help? Instead you bring along 2 normal humans like Hawkeye and Black Widow? It doesn't really make any sense, logic-wise. Maybe they should have at least explained why Valkyrie can't/wouldn't help? I mean it makes even less sense seeing how she showed up at the end battle anyway.

 

[iconmaster]

Instead you bring along 2 normal humans like Hawkeye and Black Widow?

They're critical components.

Ultimately we know that the time travel pad isn't really needed as they land in 2012, 2013 and 2014 without a pad and also Tony/Steve travel from 2012 to 1970 without a time travel pad.

If you want to be kind to the movie, you could say that whoever was working the time-pad in the future made that happen. Maybe Tony/Steve left a time capsule with the request.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Watching this tonight for the first time at the drive in. Already had it spoiled for me but I don’t care

 

[sol_bad]

I think everyone should watch Patrick's video about plot holes.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I think everyone should watch Patrick's video about plot holes.

And then watch all the logical fallacies made and pointed out by these guys

 

[sol_bad]

5 hours???
I have watched the first 30 minutes so far and they are 2 minutes in to Patrick's video. They are waffling on about The Dark Knight Returns "plot hole" about how Bruce Wayne gets back to Gotham. They are talking about adding an extra scene or line of dialogue to explain how he got back, coming up with ideas. Basically proving Patrick's point, that the audience is smart and intelligent enough to work it out themselves. Bruce Wayne is (was in this film) extremely wealthy and would have many contacts, obviously he can get help in returning to Gotham and the audience is smart enough to know this.
Also, in Batman Begins he traveled the world without money before returning to Gotham, he knows what he is doing.

 

[Dragon_Rocks]

I saw the movie. It was alright. My biggest gripe is how Captain Marvel just felt so fucking forced. She didn't feel organic at all when it came to meshing in with the plot, characters and settings of the movie. Her large absence throughout most of the movie didn't help matters either. Also she full on no sold a headbutt from fucking Thanos? THANOS? The same guy that beat the living shit out of Hulk without assistance from the gauntlet? Come the fuck on. It should have hurt her real bad, but no, she's the new golden child of the Marvel movie franchise for the moment...but it made me wonder why they didn't go with a much better known character even more so.

Her only purpose was to get Iron Man and Nebula back to earth.

 

[Ulysses 31]

5 hours???
I have watched the first 30 minutes so far and they are 2 minutes in to Patrick's video. They are waffling on about The Dark Knight Returns "plot hole" about how Bruce Wayne gets back to Gotham. They are talking about adding an extra scene or line of dialogue to explain how he got back, coming up with ideas. Basically proving Patrick's point, that the audience is smart and intelligent enough to work it out themselves. Bruce Wayne is (was in this film) extremely wealthy and would have many contacts, obviously he can get help in returning to Gotham and the audience is smart enough to know this.
Also, in Batman Begins he traveled the world without money before returning to Gotham, he knows what he is doing.

I'd watch the first hour at least to start seeing all the strawmans and illogical things David's saying, saying things like humans are illogical and acting logical is inhuman.


And 5 hours usually their one of their shorter streams.

 

[sol_bad]

I'd watch the first hour at least to start seeing all the strawmans and illogical things David's saying, saying things like humans are illogical and acting logical is inhuman.


And 5 hours usually their one of their shorter streams.

I'm still watching/listening to it. They are talking about A Quiet Place now and how the family should have lived next to the river.

Look at this scene.


Look at all the trees and shrubs there. Do you know how long it would take one person and how loud it would be to build a habitat there? Set up a farm for food? Do they mean they should just camp next to the river? Forever?
They are proving how illogical they are themselves. They are laughing at Patrick and his topic of being illogical when they themselves are being illogical in that scenario.

 

[kunonabi]

Her only purpose was to get Iron Man and Nebula back to earth.

Which is funny since the post credit scene from CM had her arriving differently. Makes you wonder if they shot a different arrival for Tony and nebula without her.

 

[Dragon_Rocks]

Which is funny since the post credit scene from CM had her arriving differently. Makes you wonder if they shot a different arrival for Tony and nebula without her.

Its all left to viewers imagination. CM was shot after Endgame so I guess they would have the following sequence that she probably arrived after getting page from Fury, was told by remaining avengers of people missing and went looking for them and found Tony and Nebula.

 

[sol_bad]

Its all left to viewers imagination. CM was shot after Endgame so I guess they would have the following sequence that she probably arrived after getting page from Fury, was told by remaining avengers of people missing and went looking for them and found Tony and Nebula.

And that is why Pepper is at Avengers HQ, because she knows Captain Marvel is looking for him and she wants to be there if/when he returns.

 

[Mihos]

Honestly, the more time that I had for the movie to sink in the more I like it. I still think about some of the stuff in this movie every day.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Just got back from my first viewing. Was pretty good, good show by RDJ and all the stuff I heard was shoehorned in like he girl power thing was totally not a big deal. Got to admit there were times where I had no idea what was going but still pretty entertaining.

Kind of feel like Captain Marvel’s “there are other planets besides earth” was a total bullshit excuse to hand wave a hero ignoring the death of half the universe but then again this is all total nonsense and if you start asking logic questions now the entire thing would fall apart.

 

[sol_bad]

It's not really a bullshit excuse. It's not just that there are "other planets" out there that need help, it's the fact that there are other planets without heroes like the Avengers. In the comics, Earth is this weird anomaly that has all these super powered people that can help protect it. Certain alien races fear Earth and it's well known that Earth has protected itself against many cosmic threats that have annihilated other planets and galaxies.

There are hundreds and thousands of planets out there without super powered beings and Captain Marvel is one of the most powerful beings in the cosmos. She has been helping other planets for years. The universe is so big that it's possible that she never ran across any victims of Thanos. She had no idea he was collecting the infinity stones, she may not even know what the stones are. Once the snap happened the whole universe fell apart, not just Earth. Logic can't really be brought in to question when we haven't seen things from Captain Marvel's point of view. We don't know if she headed straight for Earth after receiving the pager signal and it took her a long time or if she helped 20 other planets first before heading to Earth. What we do know is that once she landed on Earther, she flew thousands of light years back in to space to save Tony and Nebula and then she wanted to put Thanos down as soon as she knew about him.

Is Captain Marvel powerful enough to kill Thanos? No I do not think so. I think she tanked that headbutt only because she was siphoning power from the Infinity Stones, the sound when the headbutt connects even sounds like a force field, not like skin connecting with skin. Without a gauntlet, I think Thanos could kill Captain Marvel very easily.

Circling back to my first paragraph, considering the Avengers have stopped Thanos 3 times (Avengers 1 was his army) in the MCU, the universe will probably start to hear about how powerful Earth is. Currently you may have noticed that Terra and Terrans do not get much respect in the universe within the MCU. This chain of events will probably change this and Earth/Terra will be respected. I think over the next 10 years we will see more powerful cosmic villains that attack Earth and grow it's reputation further as a place that shouldn't be messed with. Earth will become or already has become this same anomaly as in the comics.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Making a box office prediction now: Endgame will end up second in domestic box office and second in worldwide. I just don’t think it has the legs to keep going for several hundred million more. TFA, Titanic, and avatar had the advantage of dropping at Christmas. Summers now are just way too stacked.

I would like to be proven wrong.

 

[ruvikx]

Making a box office prediction now: Endgame will end up second in domestic box office and second in worldwide. I just don’t think it has the legs to keep going for several hundred million more. TFA, Titanic, and avatar had the advantage of dropping at Christmas. Summers now are just way too stacked.

I would like to be proven wrong.

You're probably right. Endgame has dropped like a stone in the US box office since Monday. Its legs compared to The Force Awakens aren't good, i.e. its $100 million advantage from its opening weekend has fallen to merely $9 million after 14 days.

 

[sol_bad]

Kind of makes sense that it's legs won't be as good. It's the 2nd highest grossing film of all time and it took less than 2 weeks to get. Everyone and their grandma has seen it already.

Avatar reaching nearly 1 billion in USA is some crazy freak occurrence. I'll never understand it. Being number 2 for USA domestic box office is not a bad thing. I just hope it can hit 3 billion, we'll see where it's at after the weekend.

*EDIT*
I meant to say Force Awakens above, not Avatar.

 

[Pagusas]

I’m still confused by how powerful base level no gems Thanos is. Is he like a more intelligent version of the hulk? Is he closer to Captain Marvel in power? Right now I imagine he’s Tony Stark smart and Hulk strong.

Also it feels like his personality was completely different in endgame then IW. Like not even the same character.