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Hardensoul
Gold Member
Kinda expected Barbie to open bigger than Oppenheimer. Barbie is target to more mainstream audience. The rating and run time of Oppenheimer could hut it long term too.Barbie beats Openheimer (22.3 M vs 10.5 M)
Box Office: ‘Barbie’ Blasts Off With $22.3M in Previews, ‘Oppenheimer’ Rakes in $10.5M
If traffic stays this strong, 'Barbie' could open to a gigantic $150 million-plus over the weekend, followed by a sizable $75 million for 'Oppenheimer.'www.hollywoodreporter.com
Let's see how the legs will be now that its message is out in the open and not hidden like it was in the trailers.
Agree with you, once word of mouth about Barbie comes out, I don't see it having legs either. It certain won't get young boy audience and it may not get the older male audience either.
Ememee
Member
Think it’s brilliant, if not shady AF, they obscured the kind of film it apparently is, cause there’s always a good shot it could deter certain portions of the screen-going experience.
I haven’t watched it, but this looked (*looked*) like a fun, theater going experience with a popular uncharted IP, headlined by two incredibly popular actors.
And, I’ve said it before, I think people are craving new.
I was stoked AF to watch this. Love baby goose..the showings after Oppenheimer were near sold out, so I passed but…hard to deny what I’m hearing about it isn’t disappointing.
CortexVortex
Banned
god I loved the movie so much. Extremely funny, smart and with lots of heart.
Robbie, Gosling and Cera were amazing.
Might watch it again soonish, but first I’ve to get tickets for Oppenheimer next week.
reading this thread made me realise that this is apparently the place full of snowflakes, not Reeeee.
Robbie, Gosling and Cera were amazing.
Might watch it again soonish, but first I’ve to get tickets for Oppenheimer next week.
reading this thread made me realise that this is apparently the place full of snowflakes, not Reeeee.
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Marvel14
Banned
I never made penis on ken dolls with my putty slime when i was little so that type of math didn't even touched my mind
DKehoe
Member
No equal rights for the Kens till women have equal rights in the real world.
Of course he made a video about Barbie before Oppenheimer.
Ulysses 31
Member
Jeremy Jahns reviewed Barbie earlier than Oppenheimer, clearly he's in league with the likes of the Drinker.
DKehoe
Member
I know the name and have seen videos of his posted in places but I'm not that familiar with him. So I went and looked at his YouTube channel and saw this.
So yeh maybe these YouTubers are just more interested in that kind of stuff.
FunkMiller
Member
I have one question for all the whiners out there like Critical Drinker, who are getting their panties in a bunch over how much of a feminist movie this is:
What exactly in captain fuckabout were you expecting from a movie about an iconic girl's toy, made by Great fucking Gerwig? Titties, beer and brofists?
By all means (rightly) criticise movie studios for gender swapping characters for no good reason, and shoving feminist agendas into films that shouldn't have them, but for the love of god, stop complaining about a movie that clearly wasn't geared towards you at all.
It's fucking BarbieYou couldn't have a more female-centric themed movie if you tried. I'm sure it's one long exercise in misandry, which is why I'm avoiding it like the plague. But fuck it, let 'em have it. I'll be watching Oppenheimer.
What exactly in captain fuckabout were you expecting from a movie about an iconic girl's toy, made by Great fucking Gerwig? Titties, beer and brofists?
By all means (rightly) criticise movie studios for gender swapping characters for no good reason, and shoving feminist agendas into films that shouldn't have them, but for the love of god, stop complaining about a movie that clearly wasn't geared towards you at all.
It's fucking Barbie
You couldn't have a more female-centric themed movie if you tried. I'm sure it's one long exercise in misandry, which is why I'm avoiding it like the plague. But fuck it, let 'em have it. I'll be watching Oppenheimer.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Actually, I find his reviews are practically free of culture war stuff. But with Barbie the smash the patriarchy stuff was so on the nose that even he had to give it a mention.I know the name and have seen videos of his posted in places but I'm not that familiar with him. So I went and looked at his YouTube channel and saw this.
So yeh maybe these YouTubers are just more interested in that kind of stuff.
You should give his reviews a shot.
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Don’t Hate the Barbie Girl, Hate the Barbie World
Suzy Weiss reviews the Warner Bros. blockbuster: I went to Greta Gerwig’s new movie and got pink pilled.
open.substack.com
^ Says she went in expecting to hate it, but couldn’t help having fun, ended up “pink pilled.” It does have all the things people are complaining about but it doesn’t kill it.
ManaByte
Member
You know very well what they’re doing.I have one question for all the whiners out there like Critical Drinker, who are getting their panties in a bunch over how much of a feminist movie this is:
What exactly in captain fuckabout were you expecting from a movie about an iconic girl's toy, made by Great fucking Gerwig? Titties, beer and brofists?
By all means (rightly) criticise movie studios for gender swapping characters for no good reason, and shoving feminist agendas into films that shouldn't have them, but for the love of god, stop complaining about a movie that clearly wasn't geared towards you at all.
It's fucking Barbie
DKehoe
Member
The culture war stuff isn't the only reason I'm not into those YouTube reviewers. I find their lack of insight to be dull. I just gave his Oppenheimer review a watch and it's not really for me which is a pity since I'm always looking for new sources for decent media criticism,.Good ones are becoming rarer.
John Bilbo
Member
I remember a time not too long ago when feminists despised Barbie.
But then again the culture fluctuates.
But then again the culture fluctuates.
That was before they made fat barbie and wheelchair barbie (which , to be fair, meant Mattel had to figure out bendy knees).
Saber
Gold Member
I like that movie threads aways resolves like that:
-Theres people who didn't like the movie(usually posts reasons for it)
- And theres people who likes the movie and make certain to insult/offend who didn't(plus if you compare to Resetera)
Nothing against the guys who likes this movie. Hey good for you to have fun, different tastes different takes I say.
-Theres people who didn't like the movie(usually posts reasons for it)
- And theres people who likes the movie and make certain to insult/offend who didn't(plus if you compare to Resetera)
Nothing against the guys who likes this movie. Hey good for you to have fun, different tastes different takes I say.
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John Bilbo
Member
Why though? It's not like either one is getting up
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SJRB
Gold Member
I have one question for all the whiners out there like Critical Drinker, who are getting their panties in a bunch over how much of a feminist movie this is:
What exactly in captain fuckabout were you expecting from a movie about an iconic girl's toy, made by Great fucking Gerwig? Titties, beer and brofists?
By all means (rightly) criticise movie studios for gender swapping characters for no good reason, and shoving feminist agendas into films that shouldn't have them, but for the love of god, stop complaining about a movie that clearly wasn't geared towards you at all.
It's fucking Barbie
Come on dude.. As Drinker actually explains in quite a bit of detail, the promotion for this movie apparently doesn't correlate with the actual movie. At all. All the clips and trailers make it seem like a sarcastic comedy, fish out of water with some music and good banter. Lighthearted and colorful, tongue in cheek comedy.
Read the movie synopsis and then watch the trailers again and tell me they didn't deliberately paint a completely different picture of what this movie is. There is literally no reason to go this hard on the "women superior, men inferior" messaging in the movie and it caught people by surprise.
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Fake
Member
Yeah. The promotional was quite misleading. I almost fall into that. In fact, the ad are quite good at telling me would be a funny/silly movie about Barbie world, maybe just like Sonic or Mario movie.
Thats why is important to listen movie reviewers and ignore game journalists that review movies. They don't tell shit.
Thats why is important to listen movie reviewers and ignore game journalists that review movies. They don't tell shit.
FunkMiller
Member
Eh, it'll drop like a stone second week then, if people don't like what the movie actually is.
My point still stands that it's very clear who the target audience for this film is, so it's a bit much for the permanent outrage crew to get angry about it. Drinker and that lot often have a lot of sensible stuff to say, but on this one they're being mad for the sake of it. They all know this ain't for them.
FunkMiller
Member
Only so many ways everyone can agree it's a masterpiece.
Trilobit
Member
The more I keep getting bombarded with the feminist worldview and how powerful all men are the more I'm starting to feel like I am actually superior just because of my manhood. Always thought men and women were equals, but apparently that's not true.
Might go and watch this just to see exactly how powerful and superior I am.
Just afraid I'll turn into a bear as I feel all that testosterone flowing through my beard.
Might go and watch this just to see exactly how powerful and superior I am.
Just afraid I'll turn into a bear as I feel all that testosterone flowing through my beard.
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Ulysses 31
Member
The Kens lose to the Barbies and get reduced to 2nd class citizens again by the end.
Ulysses 31
Member
The Drinker dispensing judgement.
Dis
Member
The more I keep getting bombarded with the feminist worldview and how powerful all men are the more I'm starting to feel like I am actually superior just because of my manhood. Always thought men and women were equals, but apparently that's not true.
Might go and watch this just to see exactly how powerful and superior I am.
Just afraid I'll turn into a bear as I feel all that testosterone flowing through my beard.
Thats hot
DKehoe
Member
It's not entirely surprising. This year one of the most discussed films on GAF has been The Little Mermaid.
FunkMiller
Member
He’s fallen hook, line and sinker for what is just one gigantic shitpost.
Barbie is a troll.
Let them enjoy it, and don’t rise to the bullshit.
The people behind this movie want men angry and raging on the internet. Idiots like Drinker are giving them the satisfaction.
Ulysses 31
Member
Eh, that's like saying She-Hulk was good because the writers wanted to spite and troll incels on the internet.
I think he says he's not the target audience but I don't see why that should stop him from telling what he thinks of it if he did see the movie.
Drinker at least usually lays out why he likes/dislikes something so I don't put him with the mindless anti-woke crowd.
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Men can take being the brunt of a joke, so long as it is a GOOD joke.
And if Barbie success means I can have action movies with damsels in distress, girls showing tits, and men being allowed to be the police/CIA/secret agency boss again, I'll call it a win
Let women have theirs and us ours, I say.
And if Barbie success means I can have action movies with damsels in distress, girls showing tits, and men being allowed to be the police/CIA/secret agency boss again, I'll call it a win
Let women have theirs and us ours, I say.
arkhamguy123
Member
He probably creamed his jeans when he heard about the societal commentary in it
He already knows he's going to make so much money from dumb people by "critiquing" this movie
arkhamguy123
Member
He hasn't fallen for anything. He knows exactly who he's playing to and what he's doing
This is his 9-5. His job. Barbie was almost tailor made specifically for critical drinker to cut himself a big check through YouTube by "dissecting" and "analyzing" how oooooh sooo horrible this little girl power movie is
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^ Says he enjoyed it overall, with reservations. Ryan Gosling being the standout that saves a lot of the tepid humor from the script. Gets beaten over the head with "the patriarchy" in the later stages of the film, and it's clearly not made for him, etc.. but not enough to ruin it.
DKehoe
Member
The guy knows what his audience wants. They want the outrage. Look at his youtube channel and sort the videos by most popular. That's not an audience of people coming to hear more about great films they should check out. I don't think he's fallen for it. He's cashing in. It's why he's now done two Barbie videos and currently none for Oppenheimer, a film that should on the surface be more in line with what he and his audience are looking for.
ManaByte
Member
Too late.
Shouta
Member
I saw Barbie today and this movie was a ridiculous amount of fun. The marketing definitely made it seem like more of a fish out of water comedy with a bit of the heavier stuff. It was flipped in the movie but it wasn't too imbalanced. Plenty of laughs throughout the film. Ryan Gosling kills it and there are some great 4th wall jokes there too.
The thing that surprised me about the film is that despite having that catcalling scene and using the patriarchy as a plot point, the movie is a pretty even-keeled and pretty nuanced. Yeah, the Kens are kind of the antagonists but they aren't really made out to be villains. The films even goes out of the way to say that they don't want it to go back to how it was in Barbieland before this all occurred so the Kens keep their new found awareness of the potential they could have. They also kind of share a theme with the Barbies but explored a little differently through Ryan Gosling's Ken. Barbie is explored more, obviously, but the Kens aren't just a joke in the film.
The thing that surprised me about the film is that despite having that catcalling scene and using the patriarchy as a plot point, the movie is a pretty even-keeled and pretty nuanced. Yeah, the Kens are kind of the antagonists but they aren't really made out to be villains. The films even goes out of the way to say that they don't want it to go back to how it was in Barbieland before this all occurred so the Kens keep their new found awareness of the potential they could have. They also kind of share a theme with the Barbies but explored a little differently through Ryan Gosling's Ken. Barbie is explored more, obviously, but the Kens aren't just a joke in the film.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
That’s all changed now since Disney bought a lot of male-centric properties and turned them female-centric like the MCU and Star Wars. The transformers was rebooted with a female lead. Same with He-Man.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Men can take being the brunt of a joke, so long as it is a GOOD joke.
And if Barbie success means I can have action movies with damsels in distress, girls showing tits, and men being allowed to be the police/CIA/secret agency boss again, I'll call it a win
Let women have theirs and us ours, I say.
'Conan The Barbarian' Series Abandoned Over "Toxic Masculinity"
It appears that Amazon Prime cancelled their plans for a Conan the Barbarian series over fears of toxic masculinity.
www.screengeek.net
We’re getting not getting those movies anymore.
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Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I have to completely disagree with the summations of the film going around and being believed by many who haven't even seen the film.
First off, I have two younger sisters who played with Barbie a lot and at times I played with them and I've also in the past helped run a daycare for 7 years so I have quite a lot of observational experience with the whole Barbie thing. I thought it was so well done the way they not only did this thing where Barbieland was literally how the toys function, but expressing this whole kind of mental space of social play around Barbie. It is definitely its own unique construct and besides the concept of the relation of this activity to real life social constructs that they examine in the film, I just appreciated how they nailed this mood that is put on in order to "play Barbie" together particularly among the way little girls socialize, reflected in the Barbies of this film.
The commentary on the relationship between toys and reality in view of projection on/reflection back/social modeling/existential wrestling is something I love and is also deeply similar to what Blade Runner 2049 (and to a lesser extent yet closer in thematic proximity, Megan) addressed in view of technology. We create things while putting something of ourselves in it but then they start affecting us and so it goes back and forth. It happens with language and toys and social constructs. Examining this, many elements that the movie examines with toys can apply to things like Instagram. Philosophically it's just very rich with contemplation, yet so much of it is done in so many subtle touches and jokes. It's brilliant.
As for the feminist themes, I really liked how they flip-flopped things with Barbie and Ken more than once to demonstrate both similarities and differences of their experience of life and also perhaps to help some who may more naturally empathize with Ken to better understand and empathize with Barbie's feelings and experience. With the criticisms and depictions of toxic male traits it seems to go a bit overboard, nearly reaching misandrist levels and committing against men some of the things mentioned in Gloria's beautiful speech on the paradoxical burdens of expectation that women experience. It plays this into war of the sexes a bit, which is a means of drama and humor, but can be an uncomfy attitude toward each other that you don't want to teach or instill.
However, Gerwig being very insightful and not working against her own aims, ends the movie by building a bridge between sexes that many other creators do not bother to build as Barbie and Ken find themselves and each other more truly through the experience and needed heartful conversation. Because of this, I think that the more extreme criticism/frustration/reductionism concerning men earlier in the film is to express a mental space experienced amid certain societal patterns rather than "the truth about men" or considering it the ideal attitude to have about/toward them. Rather, we end on a note where we try to see and listen to each other better and make progress together while yet being existentially autonomous and that is very positive.
Now, this movie IS primarily about Barbie herself, not her relationship with Ken, so I wouldn't want to go too deep on Ken and I don't think Gerwig is out here trying to pretend to be an expert in conveying the male experience of life, so all this is by no means a criticism of her or the film. To the contrary, you can't explore the female experience without addressing feminist concerns, which involve men and their impacts, but you can't make a movie about Barbie and have it thoroughly explore both sides of that. It's a real challenge to involve just enough but not go too far and not take too much time and I think she handled it extremely well while keeping focus in the headspace of her three leading ladies.
The finale is very interesting indeed. Gerwig at several points of the film wonderfully captured some very complex sets of feelings. Utilizing both an absolutely incredible, diverse, nuanced, complex, dynamic performance by Margot Robbie and special ordered soundtrack and dreamlike imagery, she takes you right into the emotional weight of it all, the swirl of life and purpose and desire and relationship. Barbie is encountering it for the first time and she is observing and feeling the common humanity of us all and wanting to embrace it richly. Gerwig leaves us with questions not only for ourselves but of these things we create to represent ourselves, whether they be Barbie dolls or a persona we project to others or movie just like this.
We make ideas come to life. That is essential to human identity, yet what do we do with those ideas as they start to develop a life of their own? The poignant lines from Ruth at the end explicitly drive this home as the meaning that the movie searches and invites us to search. The concept and presentation of the whole movie is surreal, yet feels quite natural as it comes to dig at the most real parts of us. Somehow it manages to do all this while also being incredibly entertaining, funny, and concise. It's an achievement far beyond my expectations for it and may well be my film of the year.
Regarding this movie being perceived as misandrist, I think people are missing an incredibly important nuance of concept. Barbieland is not a representation of the real world or what it should be. Barbieland in this film is the mental space of Gloria in reference to her sense of personal identity, self worth, and potentials. The film very explicitly explains this not only in the intro sequence but specifically in reference as to what is happening to Barbie and why she needs to go to the real world. So everything in Barbieland is about how Gloria feels as she bears the burden of her experiences in life.
Because of this, Ken is representative of how she has been viewing men her whole life. Quite frankly, she doesn't much regard them in terms of their own personhood, but rather only in the context of how they relate to her. "Ken is only important when Barbie looks at him" is not a knock on Ken having an insecure ego, but it's a knock on how Gloria has been regarding men, or rather, how she does not. The fallout between Barbie and Ken isn't a representation of Ken being corrupted and how evil men are, but of Gloria's view of men falling apart due to her perception of them as interpreted through the challenges she faces in society. This is unfair to Ken and the movie very clearly depicts a very serious unfairness to Ken as being one of the main causes of his own disenfranchisement and embrace of anything that values him.
Consequently, the Barbies who fall under the spell of his influence are not to represent all of life and society in the real world being garbage, but rather how placating to a disenfranchised man's desire to be admired is not the solution to the problem of his disenfranchisement or the rift between sexes. Now, some may argue it is still painting a negative picture of men in society, but I honestly don't think you have to have an agenda to encounter negative experiences with men. Nearly every single woman I know (entire extended family, friends, coworkers) has suffered abusive behavior from men. I myself on some occasions in life have suffered abusive behavior from men. Have I from women? No. Toxic behavior yes, but not abuse. It is VERY common and yes common enough that many women become doubtful and judgmental of men in general. Is it fair and rational to good men? No. Is it a real issue you can make a movie about? Yes.
Yet while that negative response is very real and common and depicted in Gloria's teenage daughter, there is also the placating response. To those who may think women never sell themselves short in order to placate to men, I really must ask... have you ever been on Instagram? Even once? That is just the tip of the iceberg. That also is just a very real and observable trend that you don't need a political agenda to recognize. Many men who complain about "woke" feminism and love women flaunting their sexuality and acting servile in various things will turn around and make every effort to prevent their daughters from choosing those paths. Yet this film isn't saying that either the negativity or placating are a correct response. It is saying that both are a lazy and detached response to the problem of not understanding why men are choosing what they do and giving into either is giving up on the dignity of both women and men.
That Matchbox 20 song the Kens sing to the Barbies is actually supposed to represent the mental space of a girlfriend who abused one of the band members, yet it ended up resonating with angst and angry temptations in a lot of men among their fanbase and became a big controversy/discussion with feminist groups. Choosing that song highlighted not merely the toxic place the Kens fell to but also the relationship to Barbie and how women had felt those same things before, so the problem isn't going to be found from the sexes alienating each other or we'll just end up causing the same hurt in each other in a pendulum swing.
Barbie was feeling terrible about the whole situation and at one point wanted to give up and "wait until some of the leader Barbies" did something about it, but that wasn't the answer. Even taking back Barbieland itself wasn't about women taking over society, because Barbieland isn't society it is an analogy for the mental space of women to dream about life's potential for themselves. Sasha wasn't a Barbie who got programmed but rather a very conscious teenager, but "her Barbieland" had been destroyed by despair over toxic results of patriarchal patterns just like Barbie was experiencing at her lows. She didn't have hope to dream, only to be angry at men. Reclaiming Barbieland was representative of reclaiming hope to dream.
So it concludes that the Barbies had to escape from patriarchal explanations for their dissatisfaction and find their own voice and space to be, that in itself being Barbieland. Yet once they have reclaimed that space to be of themselves it was time to reconcile with the Kens because apparently they had made mistakes in how they related to Kens which is why there was even a crisis in the first place. And if Barbie is not women but a representation of women's perceived potentials, then Ken is not men but a representation of men's perceived potentials. So that reconciliation is about reclaiming hope that men aren't just naturally horrible and the answer isn't in leaving no room to relate to them, but working through the disenfranchisement that society impacts upon us all in differing ways and the confusion inherent to life and growing up together.
It's not only Ken realizing he can be "just Ken" but also Barbie realizing that Ken's existence isn't only in relation to her and when she thinks of him that way it hurts him, just like she can be hurt that way. While the perceptions of the Kens being immature, vain, and petty were definitely present earlier in the film, the scenes of reconciliation revealed that these things were true of how Barbie had been living her life and taking Ken for granted. But from her time in the real world she had seen and absorbed a sense of all of humanity in all their variety and seen the commonality of dignities and needs among them, so she could see now Ken has the same needs that she does and breaks down to negative spaces just like she does.
So no, this is absolutely not some extremist feminist misandry propaganda. It is taking a very real look at how we view ourselves and others and how we estimate our meaning in the midst of each other and advocates respecting the fact that everyone else of both sexes around us are on the journey of joys and pains and learning too, so we should try to be fair and even helpfully communicative to one another even within our disappointments of what we may or may not mean to others. I don't think I have ever seen any feminist work be this fair to men or offer critique that maybe women have not been handling their relation to men correctly with an aim toward reconciliation rather than diminishing men in some way.
The commentary on the relationship between toys and reality in view of projection on/reflection back/social modeling/existential wrestling is something I love and is also deeply similar to what Blade Runner 2049 (and to a lesser extent yet closer in thematic proximity, Megan) addressed in view of technology. We create things while putting something of ourselves in it but then they start affecting us and so it goes back and forth. It happens with language and toys and social constructs. Examining this, many elements that the movie examines with toys can apply to things like Instagram. Philosophically it's just very rich with contemplation, yet so much of it is done in so many subtle touches and jokes. It's brilliant.
As for the feminist themes, I really liked how they flip-flopped things with Barbie and Ken more than once to demonstrate both similarities and differences of their experience of life and also perhaps to help some who may more naturally empathize with Ken to better understand and empathize with Barbie's feelings and experience. With the criticisms and depictions of toxic male traits it seems to go a bit overboard, nearly reaching misandrist levels and committing against men some of the things mentioned in Gloria's beautiful speech on the paradoxical burdens of expectation that women experience. It plays this into war of the sexes a bit, which is a means of drama and humor, but can be an uncomfy attitude toward each other that you don't want to teach or instill.
However, Gerwig being very insightful and not working against her own aims, ends the movie by building a bridge between sexes that many other creators do not bother to build as Barbie and Ken find themselves and each other more truly through the experience and needed heartful conversation. Because of this, I think that the more extreme criticism/frustration/reductionism concerning men earlier in the film is to express a mental space experienced amid certain societal patterns rather than "the truth about men" or considering it the ideal attitude to have about/toward them. Rather, we end on a note where we try to see and listen to each other better and make progress together while yet being existentially autonomous and that is very positive.
Now, this movie IS primarily about Barbie herself, not her relationship with Ken, so I wouldn't want to go too deep on Ken and I don't think Gerwig is out here trying to pretend to be an expert in conveying the male experience of life, so all this is by no means a criticism of her or the film. To the contrary, you can't explore the female experience without addressing feminist concerns, which involve men and their impacts, but you can't make a movie about Barbie and have it thoroughly explore both sides of that. It's a real challenge to involve just enough but not go too far and not take too much time and I think she handled it extremely well while keeping focus in the headspace of her three leading ladies.
The finale is very interesting indeed. Gerwig at several points of the film wonderfully captured some very complex sets of feelings. Utilizing both an absolutely incredible, diverse, nuanced, complex, dynamic performance by Margot Robbie and special ordered soundtrack and dreamlike imagery, she takes you right into the emotional weight of it all, the swirl of life and purpose and desire and relationship. Barbie is encountering it for the first time and she is observing and feeling the common humanity of us all and wanting to embrace it richly. Gerwig leaves us with questions not only for ourselves but of these things we create to represent ourselves, whether they be Barbie dolls or a persona we project to others or movie just like this.
We make ideas come to life. That is essential to human identity, yet what do we do with those ideas as they start to develop a life of their own? The poignant lines from Ruth at the end explicitly drive this home as the meaning that the movie searches and invites us to search. The concept and presentation of the whole movie is surreal, yet feels quite natural as it comes to dig at the most real parts of us. Somehow it manages to do all this while also being incredibly entertaining, funny, and concise. It's an achievement far beyond my expectations for it and may well be my film of the year.
Regarding this movie being perceived as misandrist, I think people are missing an incredibly important nuance of concept. Barbieland is not a representation of the real world or what it should be. Barbieland in this film is the mental space of Gloria in reference to her sense of personal identity, self worth, and potentials. The film very explicitly explains this not only in the intro sequence but specifically in reference as to what is happening to Barbie and why she needs to go to the real world. So everything in Barbieland is about how Gloria feels as she bears the burden of her experiences in life.
Because of this, Ken is representative of how she has been viewing men her whole life. Quite frankly, she doesn't much regard them in terms of their own personhood, but rather only in the context of how they relate to her. "Ken is only important when Barbie looks at him" is not a knock on Ken having an insecure ego, but it's a knock on how Gloria has been regarding men, or rather, how she does not. The fallout between Barbie and Ken isn't a representation of Ken being corrupted and how evil men are, but of Gloria's view of men falling apart due to her perception of them as interpreted through the challenges she faces in society. This is unfair to Ken and the movie very clearly depicts a very serious unfairness to Ken as being one of the main causes of his own disenfranchisement and embrace of anything that values him.
Consequently, the Barbies who fall under the spell of his influence are not to represent all of life and society in the real world being garbage, but rather how placating to a disenfranchised man's desire to be admired is not the solution to the problem of his disenfranchisement or the rift between sexes. Now, some may argue it is still painting a negative picture of men in society, but I honestly don't think you have to have an agenda to encounter negative experiences with men. Nearly every single woman I know (entire extended family, friends, coworkers) has suffered abusive behavior from men. I myself on some occasions in life have suffered abusive behavior from men. Have I from women? No. Toxic behavior yes, but not abuse. It is VERY common and yes common enough that many women become doubtful and judgmental of men in general. Is it fair and rational to good men? No. Is it a real issue you can make a movie about? Yes.
Yet while that negative response is very real and common and depicted in Gloria's teenage daughter, there is also the placating response. To those who may think women never sell themselves short in order to placate to men, I really must ask... have you ever been on Instagram? Even once? That is just the tip of the iceberg. That also is just a very real and observable trend that you don't need a political agenda to recognize. Many men who complain about "woke" feminism and love women flaunting their sexuality and acting servile in various things will turn around and make every effort to prevent their daughters from choosing those paths. Yet this film isn't saying that either the negativity or placating are a correct response. It is saying that both are a lazy and detached response to the problem of not understanding why men are choosing what they do and giving into either is giving up on the dignity of both women and men.
That Matchbox 20 song the Kens sing to the Barbies is actually supposed to represent the mental space of a girlfriend who abused one of the band members, yet it ended up resonating with angst and angry temptations in a lot of men among their fanbase and became a big controversy/discussion with feminist groups. Choosing that song highlighted not merely the toxic place the Kens fell to but also the relationship to Barbie and how women had felt those same things before, so the problem isn't going to be found from the sexes alienating each other or we'll just end up causing the same hurt in each other in a pendulum swing.
Barbie was feeling terrible about the whole situation and at one point wanted to give up and "wait until some of the leader Barbies" did something about it, but that wasn't the answer. Even taking back Barbieland itself wasn't about women taking over society, because Barbieland isn't society it is an analogy for the mental space of women to dream about life's potential for themselves. Sasha wasn't a Barbie who got programmed but rather a very conscious teenager, but "her Barbieland" had been destroyed by despair over toxic results of patriarchal patterns just like Barbie was experiencing at her lows. She didn't have hope to dream, only to be angry at men. Reclaiming Barbieland was representative of reclaiming hope to dream.
So it concludes that the Barbies had to escape from patriarchal explanations for their dissatisfaction and find their own voice and space to be, that in itself being Barbieland. Yet once they have reclaimed that space to be of themselves it was time to reconcile with the Kens because apparently they had made mistakes in how they related to Kens which is why there was even a crisis in the first place. And if Barbie is not women but a representation of women's perceived potentials, then Ken is not men but a representation of men's perceived potentials. So that reconciliation is about reclaiming hope that men aren't just naturally horrible and the answer isn't in leaving no room to relate to them, but working through the disenfranchisement that society impacts upon us all in differing ways and the confusion inherent to life and growing up together.
It's not only Ken realizing he can be "just Ken" but also Barbie realizing that Ken's existence isn't only in relation to her and when she thinks of him that way it hurts him, just like she can be hurt that way. While the perceptions of the Kens being immature, vain, and petty were definitely present earlier in the film, the scenes of reconciliation revealed that these things were true of how Barbie had been living her life and taking Ken for granted. But from her time in the real world she had seen and absorbed a sense of all of humanity in all their variety and seen the commonality of dignities and needs among them, so she could see now Ken has the same needs that she does and breaks down to negative spaces just like she does.
So no, this is absolutely not some extremist feminist misandry propaganda. It is taking a very real look at how we view ourselves and others and how we estimate our meaning in the midst of each other and advocates respecting the fact that everyone else of both sexes around us are on the journey of joys and pains and learning too, so we should try to be fair and even helpfully communicative to one another even within our disappointments of what we may or may not mean to others. I don't think I have ever seen any feminist work be this fair to men or offer critique that maybe women have not been handling their relation to men correctly with an aim toward reconciliation rather than diminishing men in some way.
Shouta
Member
I agree with everything in this post. Great work Dice!
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Idk my girlfriend, someone who works a high-level career job at a prestigious financial company, fucking hated the movie much more than I did. She just wanted a comedy with Barbie nostalgia and not extreme feminist satire injected. Same with a LOT of the families that walked out of the showing.I have one question for all the whiners out there like Critical Drinker, who are getting their panties in a bunch over how much of a feminist movie this is:
What exactly in captain fuckabout were you expecting from a movie about an iconic girl's toy, made by Great fucking Gerwig? Titties, beer and brofists?
By all means (rightly) criticise movie studios for gender swapping characters for no good reason, and shoving feminist agendas into films that shouldn't have them, but for the love of god, stop complaining about a movie that clearly wasn't geared towards you at all.
It's fucking Barbie
I'm not going to lie, the movie was very well made, well acted, and fairly funny at parts, but the messaging/satire of the movie was awful. And screeching "WELL ITS NOT MADE FOR YOU" isn't a valid excuse; it felt like satire of our culture like 60+ years ago, not now. Go look at the current board of directors at Mattel and realize how extremely confusing and disingenuous it is having the movie make a deliberate point/gag about how its all men. Or how for the entire runtime, the men are all deliberately stupid/mean-spirited with no real sense of irony or sarcasm. Some of the gags are genuinely funny, but the fact the movie just constantly harps on it and even makes the "patriarchy" bullshit so prominent makes the movie come off as extremely pretentious and mean-spirited. Again I do objectively think its a good movie, like a 7/10, but I absolutely detest a chunk of the satire because it is so inherently outdated and not applicable to 2023. It feels like revenge for the naughties' edginess.
To be honest, if the advertising was actually remotely indicative of what the movie is really about (which it very much isn't, I think the PG-13 rating was literally the only thing that could lead you to believe its not what it looks like), nobody would be complaining like this. The fact that there was so much unironic pink-themed advertising and Barbie marketing partnerships only for the movie to be absolutely ripping it the fuck apart just adds to the polarizing audience response.
Kataploom
Gold Member
You fell short by several stadiums buddy, it's literally "Radical feminist. The movie"