Bayonetta 3 Director Confirms Recasting Rumors

People with excpetional talent are not paid solely by the amount of time that they work. That is a rather reductive way to view the work of an actor. They are paid not just for the amount of work but also by the strength of their name and the quality of their work. Her voice is in regards to Bayonetta is rather iconic and goes hand in hand with the character, so her name's attachment to the project is significant. Additionally, the quality of her work has been top notch.

Why so many acting like she's just some dime-a-dozen employee punching out at the end of the day?

Keep making Bayonetta sound like it's Metal Gear Solid and this was David Hayter.... who similarly wasn't treated well in the end... And was a way bigger name.

I've never even heard of her.

She's extremely replaceable and ultimately that is what they did, they replaced her. She probably would have received the highest hourly rate of anyone involved in the game.
 

bender

What time is it?
FWIW

Experienced video game voice actors will receive $200 to $350 an hour or $50 to $200 per 100 words for their video game voice acting work.

Novice voice actors earn between $1 and $5 per 100 words. Video game voice actors are also eligible for bonuses up to $2,100.

 

SLB1904

Banned
How much should she have been paid?
Enough.

Twitch streamers get paid millions of money just to be obnoxious in front of the camera. And for some reason they can't afford give her enough of money? That's exploitation nothing else. "Well if you don't accept it there is a lot of people to be exploited out there"

FWIW

Experienced video game voice actors will receive $200 to $350 an hour or $50 to $200 per 100 words for their video game voice acting work.

Novice voice actors earn between $1 and $5 per 100 words. Video game voice actors are also eligible for bonuses up to $2,100.


That's fucked up
 
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clarky

Member
Enough.

Twitch streamers get paid millions of money just to be obnoxious in front of the camera. And for some reason they can't afford give her enough of money? That's exploitation nothing else. "Well if you don't accept it there is a lot of people to be exploited out there"



That's fucked up
Whats enough money? Explain, put a figure on what you think its worth.

Exploitation ? She's not making Nike trainers in China. LMFAO.
 
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Synless

Member
People with excpetional talent are not paid solely by the amount of time that they work. That is a rather reductive way to view the work of an actor. They are paid not just for the amount of work but also by the strength of their name and the quality of their work. Her voice is in regards to Bayonetta is rather iconic and goes hand in hand with the character, so her name's attachment to the project is significant. Additionally, the quality of her work has been top notch.

Why so many acting like she's just some dime-a-dozen employee punching out at the end of the day?
Is bayonetta a top selling game that warrants a higher price tag on their voice acting?

The answer is no.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
Enough.

Twitch streamers get paid millions of money just to be obnoxious in front of the camera. And for some reason they can't afford give her enough of money? That's exploitation nothing else. "Well if you don't accept it there is a lot of people to be exploited out there"



That's fucked up

$200 to $350 an hour is fucked up? And why compare Twitch streamers to voice actors at all? Not the same profession. That's like comparing someone in theater to Jerry Springer.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Enough.

Twitch streamers get paid millions of money just to be obnoxious in front of the camera. And for some reason they can't afford give her enough of money? That's exploitation nothing else. "Well if you don't accept it there is a lot of people to be exploited out there"



That's fucked up
How much is enough? if you know how much isn't enough surely you have an idea of how much is. People are so indignant but nobody will guess what it's worth.

Twitch streamers are paid by simps. If she wants Twitch streamer money she needs to get her tits out like Twitch streamers and build a following I guess.
 

SLB1904

Banned
How much is enough? if you know how much isn't enough surely you have an idea of how much is. People are so indignant but nobody will guess what it's worth.

Twitch streamers are paid by simps. If she wants Twitch streamer money she needs to get her tits out like Twitch streamers and build a following I guess.

Stop trying to defend this crap. This is straight exploitation

$200 to $350 an hour is fucked up? And why compare Twitch streamers to voice actors at all? Not the same profession. That's like comparing someone in theater to Jerry Springer.

I'm not comparing jobs. I'm comparing the affordability these companies have.
People like you is why we as a society are explored by the rich and the government.
 
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daveonezero

Member
How much is enough? if you know how much isn't enough surely you have an idea of how much is. People are so indignant but nobody will guess what it's worth.

Twitch streamers are paid by simps. If she wants Twitch streamer money she needs to get her tits out like Twitch streamers and build a following I guess.
In communism we won’t have these problems.


Stop trying to defend this crap. This is straight exploitation
Why because she isn’t scarlet Johansson? Wtf I work in IT. Should I be comparing my wages to Gates, Bezos and Musk?

What world would that make sense?

It isn’t exploitation. She had a choice she chose not to do the work.

Why should an employer pay people what they think they are worth and not actually the value of their work?

She isn’t in a blockbuster movie.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
I'm not comparing jobs. I'm comparing the affordability these companies have.
People like you is why we as a society are explored by the rich and the government.

Well then you are way off topic and politics isn't allowed on GAF. You know this.
 

SLB1904

Banned
In communism we won’t have these problems.


Why because she isn’t scarlet Johansson? Wtf I work in IT. Should I be comparing my wages to Gates, Bezos and Musk?

What world would that make sense?

It isn’t exploitation. She had a choice she chose not to do the work.

Why should an employer pay people what they think they are worth and not actually the value of their work?

She isn’t in a blockbuster movie.
You crazy and talking nonsense.
She's a lead roll of a game that made millions. And if she was irrelevant people wouldn't notice straight away when she got replaced. The same way people were pissed when they replaced David hater. That work is worth something. I'm not even suggesting that she should get paid millions. She is a lead role in a successful video game. Definitely made millions. There is absolutely no change bayo isn't profitable if the lead role gets 4k. Imagine what the less relevant people get paid. Fuck out here. That's a problem in this industry. Where the "business man" exploit the talent to get even more richer

Well then you are way off topic and politics isn't allowed on GAF. You know this.
Give me brake backseat mod.
 
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Batiman

Member
If voice actors get paid that little it’s a joke of a career. What the fuck is 4 thousand gonna do for anyone? How much voice work is actually available to make a living? I doubt nintendo or whoever is paying that little for any similar character that popular. That’s where my issue is with this situation.
 

daveonezero

Member
You crazy and talking nonsense.
She's a lead roll of a game that made millions. And if she was irrelevant people wouldn't notice straight away when she got replaced. The same way people were pissed when they replaced David hater. That work is worth something. I'm not even suggesting that she should get paid millions. She is a lead role in a successful video game. Definitely made millions. There is absolutely no change bayo isn't profitable if the lead role gets 4k. Imagine what the less relevant people get paid. Fuck out here. That's a problem in this industry. Where the "business man" exploit the talent to get even more richer


Give me brake backseat mod.
You are like a child and don’t understand how economics works.

What did she risk and why is she entitled to more money?

When a game makes millions it also has a budged of millions.

In order to have a real discussion we would have to actually see the numbers.

Otherwise this is all specilation. No matter how it makes you feel.

Budgets are a thing for a reason. You can’t give people more money to every person because of some made up ideal.

Tough decisions have to be made.
 

daveonezero

Member
If voice actors get paid that little it’s a joke of a career. What the fuck is 4 thousand gonna do for anyone? How much voice work is actually available to make a living? I doubt nintendo or whoever is paying that little for any similar character that popular. That’s where my issue is with this situation.
Yes. It takes little to no talent. It is something nearly anyone can do. Even the ones that do it as main income they are probably doing all sorts of gigs.

$4000 is probably for 20 hours of work. Why should she make a living wage in a few hours of work?
 

SLB1904

Banned
You are like a child and don’t understand how economics works.

What did she risk and why is she entitled to more money?

When a game makes millions it also has a budged of millions.

In order to have a real discussion we would have to actually see the numbers.

Otherwise this is all specilation. No matter how it makes you feel.

Budgets are a thing for a reason. You can’t give people more money to every person because of some made up ideal.

Tough decisions have to be made.
You are naive as hell lol
Let me tell you one thing. No game that dont make millions in profit would have being made 3 times. Or have animes, merchandises and spin offs. That's how much I know about economics.
 

clarky

Member
You crazy and talking nonsense.
She's a lead roll of a game that made millions. And if she was irrelevant people wouldn't notice straight away when she got replaced. The same way people were pissed when they replaced David hater. That work is worth something. I'm not even suggesting that she should get paid millions. She is a lead role in a successful video game. Definitely made millions. There is absolutely no change bayo isn't profitable if the lead role gets 4k. Imagine what the less relevant people get paid. Fuck out here. That's a problem in this industry. Where the "business man" exploit the talent to get even more richer


Give me brake backseat mod.
There's a difference in a lead role and a videogame and a lead role in a movie.


Shes not a lead role in fuck all other than the drama she's created in the failings of her own career. Cry me a river bitch. Who gives a fuck if she's not earning the millions she somehow thinks she entitled to?

I might buy two copies, digitally no less. Then delete one.
 

Madflavor

Member
She's been voicing Bayonetta for 13 years, since she debuted. And not just in her mainline games, but even cameos and crossovers. Hellena's iconic voice for Bayonetta contributed to her growth as an iconic and beloved character in gaming. Not to mention this is a game that's published by Nintendo, so you know they've got the money to pay her very well.

If you really think $4000 for a gig like this isn't bullshit, you really need to consider all of the above circumstances here.

Yes. It takes little to no talent. It is something nearly anyone can do. Even the ones that do it as main income they are probably doing all sorts of gigs.

$4000 is probably for 20 hours of work. Why should she make a living wage in a few hours of work?

This might be a contender for the dumbest thing I've read on Gaf this year. That is no small feat.
 

clarky

Member
She's been voicing Bayonetta for 13 years, since she debuted. And not just in her mainline games, but even cameos and crossovers. Hellena's iconic voice for Bayonetta contributed to her growth as an iconic and beloved character in gaming. Not to mention this is a game that's published by Nintendo, so you know they've got the money to pay her very well.

If you really think $4000 for a gig like this isn't bullshit, you really need to consider all of the above circumstances here.



This might be a contender for the dumbest thing I've read on Gaf this year. That is no small feat.
So 2 games. like what five days graft. Hardly Luke skywalker is she.
 

Rykan

Gold Member

Stop trying to defend this crap. This is straight exploitation



I'm not comparing jobs. I'm comparing the affordability these companies have.
People like you is why we as a society are explored by the rich and the government.
No, it isn't exploitation.

Look at the twitter thread: The minimum rate for a voice over session of just four hours is over a thousand dollars. I don't know what profession you do, But I sure as fuck ain't making 1000$ for just four hours of work.

The only reason why this is controversial at all, is because as a society, we have normalized paying entertainers stupid amounts of money just because they happen to have the talent to act. The comparison to movies doesn't work at all. A movie walks or falls depending on the performance of the actors. The person in question is the lead voice actress for a "Trashy" game franchise in which her performance has absolutely 0 influence on the amount of sales it will get. Nobody is returning to Bayonetta for the amazing story/cutscenes and her performance. The cutscenes in which she performs make up but a fraction of the total experience, and even if she flunks it completely it will have 0 effect on reviews or sales because it's not the driving force behind the game. This isn't some mega selling franchise and the money that the franchise has supposedly made doesn't add up with its total sales.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member

Stop trying to defend this crap. This is straight exploitation



I'm not comparing jobs. I'm comparing the affordability these companies have.
People like you is why we as a society are explored by the rich and the government.
I'm not trying to defend anything. I just want to know what you think is enough. You obviously have some sort of insider knowledge of these negotiations so you know how much work this was. Given the information in that tweet what is a fair number?

These folks are unionized. Surely SAG/AFTRA was involved in the negotiations. She hasn't done video game voiceover work since 2014. She doesn't seem to have done any notable mainstream film or voice acting work since 2014. It's possible that the person you're lifting up as the arbitrary standard here can get a better rate since his career is still active.

So tell us what you think she should have received. Put your number out there. What would have been fair for this role?
 

bender

What time is it?
Now that we've seen some numbers posted on average voice acting wages, I'd be curious what type of effort in hours Bayo 1/2 required. I'd assume she'd be in a position to request the higher end of the scale as she is in part what has popularized the character.

People also need to stop with the logic of "I make x amount an hour so her turning down y is ridiculous". That's not how the world works.
 

SLB1904

Banned
I'm not trying to defend anything. I just want to know what you think is enough. You obviously have some sort of insider knowledge of these negotiations so you know how much work this was. Given the information in that tweet what is a fair number?

These folks are unionized. Surely SAG/AFTRA was involved in the negotiations. She hasn't done video game voiceover work since 2014. She doesn't seem to have done any notable mainstream film or voice acting work since 2014. It's possible that the person you're lifting up as the arbitrary standard here can get a better rate since his career is still active.

So tell us what you think she should have received. Put your number out there. What would have been fair for this role?
She should receive a fair amount on how successful the game is. Voice acting is art there isn't a price tag on it.
Is like athletes, they get paid according to their performance. Dismissing her role in the creation of the character like bayonets os insane. Bayo is one of the few character out there that people recognise straight away just by hearing her voice. She had a very important role in the character. I'm not even huge fan of the games like many others by I can recognise these characters from the voice actors performance.
People out here with their hyperbole takes that she's claiming millions.
And the oil company making millions i work for means that i deserve more as well right?

she got offered a job and turned it down, you know, the way the world works. Boo fucking hoo
How is that even comparable lol

If you were the oil or even the machinery to extract to the oil you would get paid accordingly.

Learn how to differentiate things
 
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Hardensoul

Member
You are naive as hell lol
Let me tell you one thing. No game that dont make millions in profit would have being made 3 times. Or have animes, merchandises and spin offs. That's how much I know about economics.
You don’t seem to be too familiar with Bayonetta’s sales! It’s bad, so bad Sega refused to fund their own IP and was turned down by everyone even both Sony and Ms said no.

Nintendo step in to save Bayonetta. Nintendo needed to diversify their IP and needed more mature games, hell they even resurrected Devil’s Third. All because Nintendo wanted to get rid of the kiddie moniker that that time. Didn’t help cause the Wii U still failed.

For Switch they still wanted more mature lineup so they green lit and announced Bayonetta 3 really early been over 5yrs development.

Bayonetta 1 barely sold 2 million and most of those copies are heavily discounted since it bombed at launch on PS3/Xbox360. Bayonetta 2 sales were not better 300k on Wii U and 1mill on Switch.

I repeat Nintendo is only funding Bayonetta to diversify their portfolio! With low sales it doesn’t look like they are making much profits!
 
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If voice actors get paid that little it’s a joke of a career. What the fuck is 4 thousand gonna do for anyone? How much voice work is actually available to make a living? I doubt nintendo or whoever is paying that little for any similar character that popular. That’s where my issue is with this situation.

Most veteran voice actors don't do voice work only on games. There really isn't enough dialogue in most games to justify that.

You get paid more money for recurring roles in animated series.

She doesn't work much to my knowledge. Her last credit on imdb is 2014's Super Smash Bros, but if you look at Yuri Lowenthal also in Bayonetta, he had 16 projects in 2022 alone, five of them being recurring tv shorts or series that he may or may not have worked in during 2022.

Did she somehow think that working this one game was going to set her for the year or for the last 6 years?

David Hayter said that if she was an actress in a movie that did 450 million she would have been paid millions and he's right, but this isn't a movie and the main draw isn't the voice actor. The main draw in the gameplay. I love David Hayter's work as Solid Snake and would probably not play a game where he isn't playing Snake, but these people have delusions of grandeur and they're fairly easily replaced, even if fans don't like it, they aren't voting with wallets.

The argument that just because the company COULD pay her more that they should is also outside the park. They could probably afford to pay everyone more then, so why her specifically? Should she double tripe her salary for the same amount of hours that she worked, but devs who crunched for months get paid the same thing they always get paid?

Should publishers increase the price of the games? Oh, wait, they do that and people complain even more....
 

daveonezero

Member
She's been voicing Bayonetta for 13 years, since she debuted. And not just in her mainline games, but even cameos and crossovers. Hellena's iconic voice for Bayonetta contributed to her growth as an iconic and beloved character in gaming. Not to mention this is a game that's published by Nintendo, so you know they've got the money to pay her very well.

If you really think $4000 for a gig like this isn't bullshit, you really need to consider all of the above circumstances here.



This might be a contender for the dumbest thing I've read on Gaf this year. That is no small feat.
How much audio have you recorded?

How many hours and what was her pay for the other titles?

She clearly thought she was some irreplaceable aspect of the fame and that is a risk. They called her bluff and got someone else.

Does anyone here actually work as an independent contractor?
 
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clarky

Member
She should receive a fair amount on how successful the game is. Voice acting is art there isn't a price tag on it.
Is like athletes, they get paid according to their performance. Dismissing her role in the creation of the character like bayonets os insane. Bayo is one of the few character out there that people recognise straight away just by hearing her voice. She had a very important role in the character. I'm not even huge fan of the games like many others by I can recognise these characters from the voice actors performance.
People out here with their hyperbole takes that she's claiming millions.
Does a MacDonalds worker get paid on how many burgers he sells?

Get real. im a contract worker, you get offered a job and you accept the contact, do the work and get paid. You can't moan like a bitch if the work you've done under contract makes the company bank. its what they hired you to do. Don't like it? take a different contract, there no crime here.
 
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SLB1904

Banned
Does a Macdonalnds worker get paid on how many burgers he sells?

Get real. im a contract worker, you get offered a job and you accept the contact, do the work and get paid. You can't moan like a bitch if the work you've done under contract makes the company bank. its what they hired you to do. Don't like it? take a different contract, there no crime here.

For fuck sake.
Voice actors are artists. They aren't in the same category as McDonald's workers 🙄
Anyone can follow a recipe.
Voice actors or any actor or artist are unique. They participate on the development of the character.
How can't this fly over your head?
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
I can’t believe anyone is against her in this. You get paid for your abilities and experience, period. She got slapped in the face and didn’t take it. Good on her. If someone offered me a tiny fraction of the going rate for someone with my experience in my profession I’d do the same. And you’re an idiot if you think that’s the wrong thing to do.
 

kubricks

Member
If she thinks the offer is too low for the job she should reject it.
If the company thinks the English VA is not really impactful to the sale of the product, or if the VA is replaceable, they can offer a low rate for it.
Eventually the market will dictate the rate, not the consumer's sense of fairness or justice.

She's been voicing Bayonetta for 13 years, since she debuted. And not just in her mainline games, but even cameos and crossovers. Hellena's iconic voice for Bayonetta contributed to her growth as an iconic and beloved character in gaming. Not to mention this is a game that's published by Nintendo, so you know they've got the money to pay her very well.
If you really think $4000 for a gig like this isn't bullshit, you really need to consider all of the above circumstances here.
Just one point of view here, as a consumer of Bayonetta games, the English VA is not something I considered important to my purchase.
Now whether things are handled professionally within the context of business decision I do not have enough details to judge.
 

clarky

Member
For fuck sake.
Voice actors are artists. They aren't in the same category as McDonald's workers 🙄
Anyone can follow a recipe.
Voice actors or any actor or artist are unique. They participate on the development of the character.
How can't this fly over your head?
She voices a marginal videogame character 99% of the world have never heard of and can be as easily replaced as the dude putting the cheese on big macs. Hence why they wanted to pay her $4000. The sales of the game will be in no way be affected by who voices bayonetta.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
She voices a marginal videogame character 99% of the world have never heard of and can be as easily replaced as the dude putting the cheese on big macs. Hence why they wanted to pay her $4000. The sales of the game will be in no way be affected by who voices bayonetta.
The proper thing to do would be to tell her “hey sorry, we don’t have the budget to bring you back.”

Don’t insult someone by lowballing them. If the going rate for a project is 30k and someone offered to pay me 4k or some similar fraction I’d tell them to eat shit too.
 

Madflavor

Member
For fuck sake.
Voice actors are artists. They aren't in the same category as McDonald's workers 🙄
Anyone can follow a recipe.
Voice actors or any actor or artist are unique. They participate on the development of the character.
How can't this fly over your head?

Ignorance is difficult to cure.

Did they pay the new VA $4k like they tried to pay the old one?

That we may never know. I would think Jennifer Hale wouldn't want to get involved in this. I think Hale is union so she probably got paid more.
 

Rykan

Gold Member
She should receive a fair amount on how successful the game is. Voice acting is art there isn't a price tag on it.
Well, in that case you should probably look up how successful Bayonetta has been. The whole mystifying of acting as some kind of art which you can't put a price tag on is ridiculous. You absolutely can, as you can with every other service.
Is like athletes, they get paid according to their performance. Dismissing her role in the creation of the character like bayonets os insane. Bayo is one of the few character out there that people recognise straight away just by hearing her voice. She had a very important role in the character. I'm not even huge fan of the games like many others by I can recognise these characters from the voice actors performance.
People out here with their hyperbole takes that she's claiming millions.
The comparison to Athletes doesn't work at all. Athletes are paid by sponsors, and thus they get paid by how much brand awareness they create. This is not at all comparable to this situation. Yes, her contribution to Bayonetta as a character is big. But what does that mean? It means she contributed to a character in a low selling franchise. A franchise of which most people probably consider to have a terrible, throwaway story with terrible dialogue that has cutscenes that only serves to set the stage for the actual selling points of the game: Every other aspect of it. Nobody buys this game for the performance of the actors.
 

clarky

Member
The proper thing to do would be to tell her “hey sorry, we don’t have the budget to bring you back.”

Don’t insult someone by lowballing them. If the going rate for a project is 30k and someone offered to pay me 4k or some similar fraction I’d tell them to eat shit too.
Ok? no need to go booing about it an looking for sympathy. Move on and go and work elsewhere like everybody else.
 

SLB1904

Banned
She voices a marginal videogame character 99% of the world have never heard of and can be as easily replaced as the dude putting the cheese on big macs. Hence why they wanted to pay her $4000. The sales of the game will be in no way be affected by who voices bayonetta.
Yet people notice straight away about the voice change shrugs. Why do you care if the game sales will be affected by this or not? Instead of looking at bigger picture where people who work on the hobby you enjoy getting severe underpaid by the corporate greedy. This isnt just Nintendo or platinum. That's clearly industry wide problem. Just because you are easily replaced doesn't mean shoud be unfairly paid.
 
The proper thing to do would be to tell her “hey sorry, we don’t have the budget to bring you back.”

Don’t insult someone by lowballing them. If the going rate for a project is 30k and someone offered to pay me 4k or some similar fraction I’d tell them to eat shit too.
Doesn't sound like they lowballed her at all here...

Sounds like she has some serious mental illness and needs some help rather than keyboard warriors fighting her financial battle for her.

I hope she gets the help she needs before something more drastic happens. People shouldn't egg her on.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Ok? no need to go booing about it an looking for sympathy. Move on and go and work elsewhere like everybody else.
You might not need to, but you probably have a reason to explain your position when your role is recast and fans want to know why, and probably have some professional feelings about the company that tried to do you dirty to let others know.

This isn’t rocket science. Pay people what they’re owed. And did move on by telling people she rejected their bullshit offer and gave her opinion on what people should do about it. Oh no! She has an opinion about being done dirty and sent it out!
 

clarky

Member
Yet people notice straight away about the voice change shrugs. Why do you care if the game sales will be affected by this or not? Instead of looking at bigger picture where people who work on the hobby you enjoy getting severe underpaid by the corporate greedy. This isnt just Nintendo or platinum. That's clearly industry wide problem. Just because you are easily replaced doesn't mean shoud be unfairly paid.
I missed the bit where she was unfairly paid? they offered her a job and she turned it down? You guys seem to think shes making sneekers in cambodia or some shit lol.

I like that you're on a crusade for the unfairly paid actors of the world though
 

Batiman

Member
Yes. It takes little to no talent. It is something nearly anyone can do. Even the ones that do it as main income they are probably doing all sorts of gigs.

$4000 is probably for 20 hours of work. Why should she make a living wage in a few hours of work?
You can ask that question for a lot of professions.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Doesn't sound like they lowballed her at all here...

Sounds like she has some serious mental illness and needs some help rather than keyboard warriors fighting her financial battle for her.

I hope she gets the help she needs before something more drastic happens. People shouldn't egg her on.
If you’re not a trolling with this then you’re the one who needs to get the help
 
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