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[Cheebo]

I'm sure a Hillary supporter like you wants them to be seen as the majority. The fact is, that Bernie's reddit supporters responded to the protest at Netroots by writing an open letter to Bernie to focus on race and flesh out his platform on it.

I like Bernie more than Hillary, I am just a realist who has been following democratic primaries for many cycles and have seen enough Howard Deans, Jerry Browns, and Bill Bradley's to know how this plays out.

He was already a goner when he was the just the socialist. It's hell of a lot worse when it has (unfairly) turned into "the socialist that black people don't like"' to the low information voters.

 

[rjinaz]

It's all great. But I still feel that he is irreparably damaged by being a self-described socialist. Main street America isn't ready for that yet.

About 25 years too soon. It's all about the baby steps. Obamacare becomes single payer, Clinton's education initiative becomes free education. The country becomes socialist/democratic without even realizing it.

But I think having candidates like Bernie are a good thing for progression, it opens people up to the ideas, gets people talking and hopefully realize there is nothing wrong or evil about forms of socialism.

 

[soleil]

I like Bernie more than Hillary, I am just a realist who has been following democratic primaries for many cycles.

He was already a goner when he was the just the socialist. It's hell of a lot worse when it has (unfairly) turned into "the socialist that black people don't like"' to the low information voters.

The only way to turn that around is push the new platform, not concentrate on the haters.

 

[Arkeband]

How about we focus not on Twitter trolls, but the crowd of 28K that gave the biggest cheers of the night to the parts of Bernie's speeches where he addresses racism.

These are the same 'supporters' that we're getting caught up, again, on not looking hard enough at their own grassroots support base. I'm sure there are a small amount of them that are bad eggs, and I'm sure there are some that just can't handle being called racists, but the overwhelming majority - of every race and background - want to bring an end to racial inequality, and they're trying to show support here.

 

[Piecake]

Varies, really. I don't think he really understands how much globalisation has affected the ability of developed economies to implement socialist policies, which is a big down-side, but I also think (at least so far) the consequences of that are not disastrous.

I can support protectionism as a temporary measure. It's true that in the long-run, free trade benefits essentially all countries and there's a wealth of data to support this, but there are still short-run costs when labour-intensive industries in capital-advantaged countries see unemployment. That'd be fine if countries had the kind of retraining programmes to get these people into other industries and the welfare system to support them during that time, but America has neither of those, and Sanders is keen on both of them, so at least temporarily I'm content to support a candidate who proposes that - the protectionism is at least reasonable as a sticky plaster procedure while the actual root problems are addressed, although I'd obviously not like to see it as a long-run policy solution.

Trade war with China is largely irrelevant. The amount of economic interlinkage China and the United States have is vastly overexaggerated, and for the most part where they do interact they have complementary economies - China does stuff the United States doesn't do and vice versa. I think it's diplomatically stupid and doesn't help the United States from a foreign policy perspective, but economically I don't think it would actually do very much either way, so I can ignore it. There's an element of Cnut and the sea, here.

You know from previous threads I'd much rather abolish the minimum wage and replace it with a citizen's income system, but I'll take the best thing that's on offer given that's not available.

Sanders isn't a perfect candidate by any means (on many issues other than the ones you name, too, like his stance on gun rights, and also how poorly he handled Netroots Nation), but in comparison with other candidates, he would be my preferred choice.

I guess my concern is that I really don't think he thinks protectionism should be a temporary measure, but a permanent measure to protect American workers. Now, I am sure you could make the claim that his presidency would make it temporary, but I am honestly hesitant about supporting a person who doesnt seem to understand basic basic economics.

As for the minimum wage, I think a 15 dollar minimum wage would be great for the urban and suburban areas, but would be quite bad for rural areas. I think a much much better option would be to raise the minimum wage to a price that almost all areas can support, and then just increase transfer payments to poor people. That way, you will help poor people more and reduce/eliminate the negative effects of increasing the minimum wage in areas that can't really support, or at least won't see any benefits from increasing the minimum wage substantially.

 

[Dude Abides]

All this whining about how one candidate's supporters are treating another candidate's (or movement's) supporters is a lot like the PUMA/OBot nonsense from 2007-2008. It was dumb then and it's dumb now.

 

[Merc_]

I'm sure a Hillary supporter like you wants them to be seen as the majority. The fact is, that Bernie's reddit supporters responded to the protest at Netroots by writing an open letter to Bernie to focus on race and flesh out his platform on it.

Hahaha, there's the "H" word again.

That's bullshit and I don't appreciate people throwing around "white liberal racists" like that. Some turd called for a lady to get tazed and now there's a thing where white liberals are racists? What a bunch of crap!

People get really REALLY passionate about politics. When you storm the stage and steal the mic, it doesn't take a racist to get annoyed with you and call for your removal. Doesn't matter what color you are, the fact is you stole the stage when it wasn't your turn and now you've made people in the audience angry. They didn't come to see you. They don't care what color you are, they just want you to stop ruining the rally. Some people will lose their shit and call for a tazering. It's a shitty thing to jump to, but it's not surprising considering all the reasons I listed above.

So please, enough with the white liberal racists shit. They're not racists they're just angry and in that moment they were total assholes. BLM wanted to make a point, it got made, it more importantly got heard, and we are moving forward together, aren't we?

Let's do that. Let's move on together. Please.

I don't think anger excuses the harassment and racism I've seen coming from Bernie supporters since Netroots, sorry. I'm also certainly not going to pretend it didn't happen and everything is just fine.

 

[Futurematic]

I am honestly hesitant about supporting a person who doesnt seem to understand basic basic economics.

As for the minimum wage, I think a 15 dollar minimum wage would be great for the urban and suburban areas, but would be quite bad for rural areas. I think a much much better option would be to raise the minimum wage to a price that almost all areas can support, and then just increase transfer payments to poor people. That way, you will help poor people more and reduce/eliminate the negative effects of increasing the minimum wage in areas that can't really support, or at least won't see any benefits from increasing the minimum wage substantially.

Nah. So you're a country with major natural resources (say Canada) and a solid manufacturing sector. Opening up free trade nukes the manufacturing sector (can't compete without protection) and spikes the resources. Hundreds of thousands middle class jobs lost, hundreds of thousands of corporate middle class white collar jobs lost, a few hundred thousand blue collar jobs added, a few tens of thousand upper-class finance jobs added. Major increase in income differences favoured rich, less jobs overall, some other nation makes some more money. Economy and per capita GDP still increase, but in bad ways.

Or, say, --insert major African nation with huge natural resources-- vs Japan. One country mounted massive protectionism to build industry and use that to fund schools and expand into high tech while fending off Western corporations. The other enjoyed free trade, remained super-poor, was exploited by Western government backed corporations, and still blows today (yes, long story, but even setting aside the civil war regions doesn't help...). Germany, Japan, key countries use strategic protectionism in favour of huge government-forced taxes On rich/upper class to poor/middle class people (though yes, they keep more of that then modern America though less then 1950s America).

Yes, global free trade does increase global living standards, although distributed terribly (finance, corporation management, and abused poor labour). America in particular, however, would do much better with protectionism. And unions, but ya know...

Just look at real adjusted income for the middle class. Hasn't moved up in 4ish decades.

As for the minimum wage you want a negative income tax/guaranteed annual income. Which, along with better-than-current-plan healthcare, was scuttled in the early '70s because the Democratic Party thought their 1976 President would get better versions. (That said, Nixon also didn't care about domestic affairs so he never pushed hard enough on either. Plus he hated Kennedys, and Ted was key on healthcare... though yeah, Ted was huge on killing healthcare, alas.)

NIT/GAI (or, see, earned income tax credit for the mini-version) are rather unlikely given multi-decade Republican Party madness, so upping the minimum wage is the shitty alternative to better solutions.


Fun fact, Ronald Reagan wanted to be a nominee for a House seat in 1952, but the Democratic Party of LA rejected him for being too liberal.

 

[jmood88]

That's bullshit and I don't appreciate people throwing around "white liberal racists" like that. Some turd called for a lady to get tazed and now there's a thing where white liberals are racists? What a bunch of crap!

People get really REALLY passionate about politics. When you storm the stage and steal the mic, it doesn't take a racist to get annoyed with you and call for your removal. Doesn't matter what color you are, the fact is you stole the stage when it wasn't your turn and now you've made people in the audience angry. They didn't come to see you. They don't care what color you are, they just want you to stop ruining the rally. Some people will lose their shit and call for a tazering. It's a shitty thing to jump to, but it's not surprising considering all the reasons I listed above.

So please, enough with the white liberal racists shit. They're not racists they're just angry and in that moment they were total assholes. BLM wanted to make a point, it got made, it more importantly got heard, and we are moving forward together, aren't we?

Let's do that. Let's move on together. Please.

There are plenty of white liberal racists and you getting upset that someone is pointing that out doesn't make him wrong.

 

[JustenP88]

Hahaha, there's the "H" word again.

Bernie doesn't exist in a vacuum. He's running for president. The "H" word is his opponent. Of course she's going to come up. Dismissing it as deflection is a real cheap attempt at stopping discussion, in my opinion.

 

[Piecake]

Nah. So you're a country with major natural resources (say Canada) and a solid manufacturing sector. Opening up free trade nukes the manufacturing sector (can't compete without protection) and spikes the resources. Hundreds of thousands middle class jobs lost, hundreds of thousands of corporate middle class white collar jobs lost, a few hundred thousand blue collar jobs added, a few tens of thousand upper-class finance jobs added. Major increase in income differences favoured rich, less jobs overall, some other nation makes some more money. Economy and per capita GDP still increase, but in bad ways.

Or, say, --insert major African nation with huge natural resources-- vs Japan. One country mounted massive protectionism to build industry and use that to fund schools and expand into high tech while fending off Western corporations. The other enjoyed free trade, remained super-poor, was exploited by Western government backed corporations, and still blows today (yes, long story, but even setting aside the civil war regions doesn't help...). Germany, Japan, key countries use strategic protectionism in favour of huge government-forced taxes On rich/upper class to poor/middle class people (though yes, they keep more of that then modern America though less then 1950s America).

Yes, global free trade does increase global living standards, although distributed terribly (finance, corporation management, and abused poor labour). America in particular, however, would do much better with protectionism. And unions, but ya know...

Just look at real adjusted income for the middle class. Hasn't moved up in 4ish decades.

I think protectionism can work if it is a temporary measure and it is known to be a temporary measure and is used to protect a fledgling industry. Every other use of protectionism simply hurts the economy. I mean, who the hell do you think pays for this protectionism? The consumer does with increased prices in goods. That reduces buying power, hurts demand, and hurts economic and job growth. The entire nation of consumes and taxpayers pay to shield a an uncompetitive sector of the economy. I don't think there is any economic data or study that supports that sort of protectionism as a benefit for the overall economy or the individual American (who isnt working in that industry).

And I think inequality has very little to do with free trade and protectionism. Tax policy and regulation is the way to go if you want to do something about that.

As for the minimum wage you want a negative income tax/guaranteed annual income. Which, along with better-than-current-plan healthcare, was scuttled in the early '70s because the Democratic Party thought their 1976 President would get better versions. (That said, Nixon also didn't care about domestic affairs so he never pushed hard enough on either. Plus he hated Kennedys, and Ted was key on healthcare... though yeah, Ted was huge on killing healthcare, alas.)

NIT/GAI (or, see, earned income tax credit for the mini-version) are rather unlikely given multi-decade Republican Party madness, so upping the minimum wage is the shitty alternative to better solutions.


Fun fact, Ronald Reagan wanted to be a nominee for a House seat in 1952, but the Democratic Party of LA rejected him for being too liberal.

Personally, I would rather have another country test that out first before I try it. And, politically speaking, it is a completely unrealistic policy. No way that it gets passed. An increased minimum wage and increased transfer payments to poor people definitely does have a chance.

 

[Merc_]

Bernie doesn't exist in a vacuum. He's running for president. The "H" word is his opponent. Of course she's going to come up. Dismissing it as deflection is a real cheap attempt at stopping discussion, in my opinion.

Except that she has nothing to do with the behavior of Bernie's supporters.

 

[JustenP88]

Except that she has nothing to do with the behavior of Bernie's supporters.

Are we talking about Reddit, or just anyone who had a problem with the nature of the protest in general? I've been a bit out of the loop since this time yesterday so I may have missed some racist fuckery that I'd rather not die on the hill for.

 

[Merc_]

Are we talking about Reddit, or just anyone who had a problem with the nature of the protest in general? I've been a bit out of the loop since this time yesterday so I may have missed some racist fuckery that I'd rather not die on the hill for.

There has been a pretty extensive campaign of harassment and racism all over social media. This is also a good post summing up some of it.

Honestly, so many of them dealt with it, from BLM activists to black feminists like Feminista Jones to Son of Baldwin to op-ed article writers like Charles M. Blow to even comedy podcasts hosts like Black Guy Who Tips. It would be hard to really collect them all.

This isn't an example (but his twitter is filled with them), but the general feeling that many have stated (many of the activists I follow have said the same) via Elon James White.

For a background check, Elon James White was at Netroots. He's a journalist and podcast host. He was there when everything went down with Bernie and BLM, and got a bunch of the backlash then and now.

https://twitter.com/elonjames/status/630832406312792064

He had a count going for how many people he blocked this weekend. It was only 73 or so, but he stopped at times.

But it's led to stuff like Gawker and Young Turks disparaging the whole movement among other media sources as well.

This was also a fun article to come out of this whole thing.

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2015/08/blacklives-false-leadership/

 

[Infinite]

The whole "shut up black people! We know what's good for you better than you do" tone is fucking gross.

 

[PopeReal]

The question for me continues to be can Bernie Sanders beat whoever wins the Republican nomination? Losing the White House to them would kill any progress we have made.

 

[JustenP88]

There has been a pretty extensive campaign of harassment and racism all over social media. This is also a good post summing up some of it.



This was also a fun article to come out of this whole thing.

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2015/08/blacklives-false-leadership/

Thanks for the info. It sucks that stuff like that came out of this situation but I don't know why I'm surprised.

The question for me continues to be can Bernie Sanders beat whoever wins the Republican nomination? Losing the White House to them would kill any progress we have made.

I think I have a harder time imagining any of the current Republican candidates being president than I do imagining Sanders being president. I also have a harder time believing Bernie could beat Hillary, though.

 

[Train of Midnight]

There are plenty of white liberal racists and you getting upset that someone is pointing that out doesn't make him wrong.

You are literally the worst.

 

[soleil]

The whole "shut up black people! We know what's good for you better than you do" tone is fucking gross.

I encourage you to watch the video in the OP. Then come back and tell me what kind of tone you're hearing.

 

[Envelope]

but i thought protesters being mean was only going to make things worse :^)

 

[soleil]

but i thought protesters being mean was only going to make things worse :^)

The protest did a lot of good. So how about we celebrate the good?

 

[Envelope]

The protest did a lot of good. So how about we celebrate the good?

yeah this is a great step in the right direction for Sanders

 

[soleil]

yeah this is a great step in the right direction for Sanders

For everyone, man. Even though Bernie is most likely going to lose the nomination, his campaign is going to create something special.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Curious, but does the idea that she supports Palin go beyond the fact that her parents were Tea Party members and she likely agreed with them for the same reason why people agree with their parents?

Not really on-topic but that's been bugging me.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that Bernie's taking steps to better communicate whatever plans he has to directly combat racial injustice.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

This is great. His website lays all this out in a very powerful way, with a lot of good information.

I think this is going to be great for Bernie, and it should lead to more support for him, because he's continuing to do what his campaign has always been about: Giving a voice to people who currently aren't being represented by other politicians. And that's a wonderful thing worthy of being celebrated.

 

[Byakuya769]

I like what I read. Time to apply that same pressure to Hillary, right?

 

[User 406]

Great stuff. Nice job BLM, and nice job Bernie.

 

[jtb]

Great. I've believed from the start that these stunts can only help Bernie, if he wanted it (and, really, why wouldn't he). It's a win for both sides.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I disagree with sanders' opinion on gmo labeling

I should crash his rally when he gets here about that

 

[A Link to the Past]

I disagree with sanders' opinion on gmo labeling

I should crash his rally when he gets here about that

Sounds like a good plan!

 

[UltimaPooh]

Curious, but does the idea that she supports Palin go beyond the fact that her parents were Tea Party members and she likely agreed with them for the same reason why people agree with their parents?

I would hope one of her friends in the BLM or any of her social groups told her Palin sucks.

 

[Infinite]

I encourage you to watch the video in the OP. Then come back and tell me what kind of tone you're hearing.

Not talking about the video in the OP. Bernie is cool with me so far.

 

[jmood88]

You are literally the worst.

And why is that?

I disagree with sanders' opinion on gmo labeling

I should crash his rally when he gets here about that

Aside the fact that you're free to choose the hill you'll die on, what's the connection between people who are protesting because they feel that a candidate isn't talking enough about things that result in them getting arrested, killed, kept poor, etc, and GMO labeling?

 

[A Link to the Past]

You are literally the worst.

In what way? There are absolutely a fair few white liberal racists. This is not an uncommon thing. In fact, there's a really interesting dynamic among racism from white liberals. Often, especially for casual racism, it's believed that being liberal makes it more okay to, say, say racist jokes, and if called out on it, use the defense that liberal people can't be racist.

I would hope one of her friends in the BLM or any of her social groups told her Palin sucks.

I could see it. Teens, once they get exposure from people outside of family, can often be influenced by that. Or they can double-down and saying "no my parents know everything"

 

[soleil]

Not talking about the video in the OP. Bernie is cool with me so far.

Some of his supporters suck. But lots of us don't. Hang in there. Love wins.

 

[Lowmelody]

This is good stuff. As a Sanders and BLM supporter I'm grateful to the activist and/or protesters that helped incite this shift (whatever their personal politics may be). I know this is an issue that's always been important to him but really it's past high time our statesmen are loud and specific about it and I'm glad that this got through. It's also good that civil disobedience has worked again which will hopefully inspire more people to treat racial justice as a dire issue and long neglected crusade rather than a tolerated feature of the democratic party.

 

[bishoptl]

I like what I read. Time to apply that same pressure to Hillary, right?

Absofuckinglutely.

 

[questionmark]

Well, I'm going to act accordingly and not want to associate with said cheesedickery or said campaign.

Can I assume that you would be understanding of people not wanting to associate with BLM based on the behavior of the two activists who interrupted Sanders' speech? Don't remember how the NetRoots incident went down, so I can't comment on that, but what I saw in the videos from Seattle was what I would consider to be abhorrent behavior. Or if you feel that the end justifies the means, and that the activists behavior was justified, then surely you would understand the reaction of Sanders supporters who lash out at perceived attacks on their candidate of choice, even if you disagree with their choice. The most important thing to them would be Bernie Sanders being elected president.

Why? Because my issue is a life/death thing for family, friends, and people who look like me and mine. You don't want to take that seriously? Fine. We know how this voting strength rolls out, thanks to Obama's WH run - and just as importantly, so do the other Democrat candidates. Someone will fill that vacuum (Martin fucking O'Malley of all people clued into this, like, ASAP) and earn those votes. Your guy doesn't get a pass for what he did 50 years ago when black folks are getting killed now.

It's interesting that to me for something that is an issue of life/death for your family, friends and people who look like you, you'd choose to go with an emotional response to the behavior of some of the followers of a candidate, instead of making an educated decision on the actual candidates themselves. Of course Sanders doesn't get a free pass for what he did 50 years ago. But what about what he did 50 years ago, and has been doing since then? What is his track record? What is the track record of the other candidates? What about who is funding their campaigns? Is all it takes to get your vote a little lip service during the campaign and well behaved followers?

Now I'm not saying that you should vote Bernie Sanders, I'm not nearly informed enough on him or the other democratic candidates to make a qualified comment in that regard. Nor am I advocating that people should distance themselves from BLM because of the Seattle incident.

 

[bishoptl]

I disagree with sanders' opinion on gmo labeling

I should crash his rally when he gets here about that

Are you seriously equating anger over GMO labelling to anger over black people being murdered?

Are you? I just want to be crystal clear on what you're saying.

Can I assume that you would be understanding of people not wanting to associate with BLM based on the behavior of the two activists who interrupted Sanders' speech? Don't remember how the NetRoots incident went down, so I can't comment on that

Then come back when you've done your research. Don't come in here with half the story and expect reasonable discourse.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Are you seriously equating anger over GMO labelling to anger over black people being murdered?

Are you? I just want to be crystal clear on what you're saying.


Then come back when you've done your research. Don't come in here with half the story and expect reasonable discourse.

I have to agree with PD from the other thread, though. Bernie is the only candidate remotely talking about the issue - socioeconomic inequality - that directly and continually affects the largest cross-section of black folk (and is arguably the issue directly responsible for their problems in other spheres), and Sanders is the only candidate remotely talking about it in concrete terms, rather than vague platitudes. I'm all for holding politicians accountable for their oversights and mistakes, but why does he have to go through hoops to earn black folks' support when, by all rights, he's by far the candidate that best represents their interests, regardless?

 

[JesseEwiak]

I have to agree with PD from the other thread, though. Bernie is the only candidate remotely talking about the issue - socioeconomic inequality - that directly and continually affects the largest cross-section of black folk (and is arguably the issue directly responsible for their problems in other spheres), and Sanders is the only candidate remotely talking about it in concrete terms, rather than vague platitudes. I'm all for holding politicians accountable for their oversights and mistakes, but why does he have to go through hoops to earn black folks' support when, by all rights, he's by far the candidate that best represents their interests, regardless?

Maybe because a lot of of black and brown folk disagree with Bernie's original argument (before the various protests) that "hey, everybody being less poor will fix everything so I don't need to talk about racial issues!"

Because you actually have to speak to places black and brown folk are, instead of just staying in your little liberal white enclaves like Portlandia and Seattle (and I say that, as a Seattle resident) to actually _earn_ those peoples vote.

You may not like them, but Hillary and Bill have done decades of work, including in Arkansas, to get minorities support, while Bernie has been able to hang out in 97% white Vermont.

In other words, So You're White and Marched with Dr. King - So What?

 

[Merc_]

Round and round we go...

 

[SteveWinwood]

Are you seriously equating anger over GMO labelling to anger over black people being murdered?

Are you? I just want to be crystal clear on what you're saying.

as i do believe that ignorance towards gmos do kill millions around the globe every year

yes i am saying that his furthering of a horrible, not science and fact based agenda is worthy of plenty of outrage

 

[Good Job Bob]

Maybe because a lot of of black and brown folk disagree with Bernie's original argument (before the various protests) that "hey, everybody being less poor will fix everything so I don't need to talk about racial issues!"

Because you actually have to speak to places black and brown folk are, instead of just staying in your little liberal white enclaves like Portlandia and Seattle (and I say that, as a Seattle resident) to actually _earn_ those peoples vote.

You may not like them, but Hillary and Bill have done decades of work, including in Arkansas, to get minorities support, while Bernie has been able to hang out in 97% white Vermont.

In other words, So You're White and Marched with Dr. King - So What?

..and what have they done with that support, exactly? Both have supported numerous policies which disproportionately harmed minorities quite severely.

The popularity of the Clintons (mainly Bill) among black voters is just as silly to me as the popularity of Reagan among many working class white voters. Don't be fooled by charisma, folks.

 

[Wall]

..and what have they done with that support, exactly? Both have supported numerous policies which disproportionately harmed minorities quite severely.

The popularity of the Clintons (mainly Bill) among black voters is just as silly to me as the popularity of Reagan among many working class white voters. Don't be fooled by charisma, folks.

as i do believe that ignorance towards gmos do kill millions around the globe every year

yes i am saying that his furthering of a horrible, not science and fact based agenda is worthy of plenty of outrage

Please stop. I am begging you guys.

 

[Enzom21]

That's bullshit and I don't appreciate people throwing around "white liberal racists" like that. Some turd called for a lady to get tazed and now there's a thing where white liberals are racists? What a bunch of crap!

People get really REALLY passionate about politics. When you storm the stage and steal the mic, it doesn't take a racist to get annoyed with you and call for your removal. Doesn't matter what color you are, the fact is you stole the stage when it wasn't your turn and now you've made people in the audience angry. They didn't come to see you. They don't care what color you are, they just want you to stop ruining the rally. Some people will lose their shit and call for a tazering. It's a shitty thing to jump to, but it's not surprising considering all the reasons I listed above.

So please, enough with the white liberal racists shit. They're not racists they're just angry and in that moment they were total assholes. BLM wanted to make a point, it got made, it more importantly got heard, and we are moving forward together, aren't we?

Let's do that. Let's move on together. Please.

Where in his post did he say all white liberals are racists?
Are you claiming that there aren't any white liberal racists?
There were some Sanders supporters who were being quite racist so I don't really understand what your point is.

 

[jediyoshi]

Like I said, neither side has been perfect but we have the best result we could ask for, moving forward.

I think this is my new favorite hand waving technique.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Dude is doing everything the country needs and everything most liberals want, yet I feel like far too many people still have no idea who he is.

Start posting this stuff on your social media profiles de jour, people. Get the word out.

 

[gogosox82]

Maybe because a lot of of black and brown folk disagree with Bernie's original argument (before the various protests) that "hey, everybody being less poor will fix everything so I don't need to talk about racial issues!"

Because you actually have to speak to places black and brown folk are, instead of just staying in your little liberal white enclaves like Portlandia and Seattle (and I say that, as a Seattle resident) to actually _earn_ those peoples vote.

You may not like them, but Hillary and Bill have done decades of work, including in Arkansas, to get minorities support, while Bernie has been able to hang out in 97% white Vermont.

In other words, So You're White and Marched with Dr. King - So What?

This entire argument is silly. First of all, this "being less poor will fix everything" argument is a strawman. Bernie has never claimed that and either has anyone who supports him. While being less poor won't fix everything, to deny there is some overlap between economic issues and racial issues is to deny reality.

Second, he has spoken at places were black and brown folks are. Here he is speaking at the SCLC. He's also reached out to BLM activists and brought one of them into his campaign so he is genuinely trying to reach out to the black community.

Third, Bill and Hilary passed "tough on crime" legislation and Hilary has taken money from the pro profit prisons industry during this campaign season. These are two things that have devastated the black community. Hilary campaign in '07 did try to smear Obama by releasing a photo of him dressed in Somalian dressing which basically started the "Obama is a muslim, Keyan socialist" nonsense that has persisted over the entirety of his presidency (and if I'm being honest, I'm still pretty salty about her doing this and will probably never let it go but that's just me). The Clintons are not the allies everyone wants to make them out to be.

Finally, the only reason why it would matter is because it gives us an idea of where he's coming from. We really don't know whether any of these candidates will keep their promises of fighting for racial equality. The only thing we have to go on is their past. The usually limited to their record but it could fall into other things like what Bernie did. Now, this doesn't mean Bernie gets a free pass and he automatically gets the black vote but it does give us some insight into how sincere he is about helping the plight of Black Americans. Unfortunately, some Bernie supporters have used this as some sort of bludgeon to silence debate which is silly and counter productive. The better move is what Bernie has done, namely make a section for racial equality on his platform and start giving speeches about racial equality and some of the issues blacks face.

 

[Big Green Anus]

This entire argument is silly. First of all, this "being less poor will fix everything" argument is a strawman. Bernie has never claimed that and either has anyone who supports him. While being less poor won't fix everything, to deny there is some overlap between economic issues and racial issues is to deny reality.

Second, he has spoken at places were black and brown folks are. Here he is speaking at the SCLC. He's also reached out to BLM activists and brought one of them into his campaign so he is genuinely trying to reach out to the black community.

Third, Bill and Hilary passed "tough on crime" legislation and Hilary has taken money from the pro profit prisons industry during this campaign season. These are two things that have devastated the black community. Hilary campaign in '07 did try to smear Obama by releasing a photo of him dressed in Somalian dressing which basically started the "Obama is a muslim, Keyan socialist" nonsense that has persisted over the entirety of his presidency (and if I'm being honest, I'm still pretty salty about her doing this and will probably never let it go but that's just me). The Clintons are not the allies everyone wants to make them out to be.

Finally, the only reason why it would matter is because it gives us an idea of where he's coming from. We really don't know whether any of these candidates will keep their promises of fighting for racial equality. The only thing we have to go on is their past. The usually limited to their record but it could fall into other things like what Bernie did. Now, this doesn't mean Bernie gets a free pass and he automatically gets the black vote but it does give us some insight into how sincere he is about helping the plight of Black Americans. Unfortunately, some Bernie supporters have used this as some sort of bludgeon to silence debate which is silly and counter productive. The better move is what Bernie has done, namely make a section for racial equality on his platform and start giving speeches about racial equality and some of the issues blacks face.

The things you mentioned about Hillary and Bill are the reasons why I'm not voting for her, which is hard for me since I used to REALLY lime Bill Clinton If Hillary wins the nomination, I'm voting for Trump.