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Brothers band together against Kerry - by Ann Coulter

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xsarien

daedsiluap
Makura said:
Upon closer inspection that facade seems to be crumbling. Even if he hasn't done all the things these verterans claim, his behaviour when he got back alone disqualifies him to be commander in chief IMO.

He exercised his right to protest? Or he signed up for military service, got sent to Vietnam, and came back someone who was disgusted with what both he and others were forced to do?

If anything, it makes him a better American, not just because he had the balls to stand up and say "What's going on over there is wrong," but because he grew in terms of recognizing his personal limits.
 
"Leave aside the fact that Kerry is a presidential candidate and -- judging by the ads being run against George Bush -- I gather there's nothing you can't say about a presidential candidate, including calling him Hitler."


Does this woman have a clue? This was an ad on Bush's website FOR Bush! There was a huge ass thread making fun of it right on this forum! Everyone said it seemed to be an ad for Kerry-now Coulter has altered history and it IS an ad for Kerry. Makes it hard to take anything else she says in that article seriously.
 

Drensch

Member
The testimony coming from these soldiers is compelling and important. I listened to an account from the gunner on Kerry's boat yesterday. It was quite damning if true.
It isn't. They're a bunch of lowlife's who are being funded by texas republicans, led by a Nixonian hatchet man, and can't substantiate a single thing they say. Moreover, when confonted they admit they weren't there, don't dispute what actually happened etc. They are pissed because Kerry protested. Fuck'em.


Its unconscionable how this is being buried and ignored by the media.
So you're ignoring tv, print and radio? Ignoring that this "story" is bs, it's getting far more coverage than it deserves.

And uttelry hypocritical for Kerry's team to try to prevent the ads from airing.
If Kerry wasn't in a campaign, thses guys would pobably be in court for libel/slander.

Where is the outrage about the MoveOn.org distortions?
Moveon has never lied, these guys are lying.

Why aren't the press covering this book like they covered the Richard Clarke book?

Because Clarke wasn't a liar and bitter little piece of shit with no credibility? Because Kerry's vietnam record wasn't predicated on lie on top of lie? Because Kerry vietnam record didn't start a bullshit war and get people killed?

I also find it funny how quickly the Sandy Berger case was buried. Thank goodness for the internet.

The Berger case was leaked to take heat off of Bush, it had been going on for 8 months, but happened to get dropped at a low point for Bush. Of course the media but on the bait and made a big hub bub. Of course the story died, and you never heard(because the media covered it up :rolleyes ) Berger was completely exonerated.
 
Makura said:
Its unconscionable how this is being buried and ignored by the media.
*shrug* I've seen it on several CNN shows, The Daily Show, and multiple advertisements in the last week or two.

levious said:
good lord, how can anyone take someone like this seriously?
I wonder if anyone has a transcript of when Ann Coulter was on The Daily Show? It was either the first or second time I'd seen her... but yeah. Kept complaining about Jon's interrupting her to make comments/ask questions being a prime example of how the left would always attack her, and not let her sell her book. No luck finding a transcript, though.
 
Ann Coulter on Halle Berry winning the Oscar:

"I TUNED IN LATE and consequently can speak only to the last three hours of Halle Berry's acceptance speech at the Academy Awards last Sunday. But inasmuch as she engaged in wild race-baiting to get her Oscar, her expressions of shock were not very believable. She had spent weeks complaining about one time she did not get a role because of her color. It was the part of a forest ranger. Arnold Schwarzenegger probably has trouble getting cast as a ballet dancer, too.

And yet still, somehow, white guilt worked on Hollywood liberals! Berry had successfully mau-maued her way to a best actress award and then acted surprised.

It's interesting that Berry makes such a big deal about being black. She was raised by her white mother who was beaten and abandoned by her black father. Clearly, Berry has calculated that it is more advantageous for her acting career to identify with the man who abandoned her rather than the woman who raised her."



This made my jaw drop! What a racist!
 

Makura

Member
Drensch said:
It isn't. They're a bunch of lowlife's who are being funded by texas republicans, led by a Nixonian hatchet man, and can't substantiate a single thing they say. Moreover, when confonted they admit they weren't there, don't dispute what actually happened etc. They are pissed because Kerry protested. Fuck'em..


So you're ignoring tv, print and radio? Ignoring that this "story" is bs, it's getting far more coverage than it deserves.


If Kerry wasn't in a campaign, thses guys would pobably be in court for libel/slander.


Moveon has never lied, these guys are lying.



Because Clarke wasn't a liar and bitter little piece of shit with no credibility? Because Kerry's vietnam record wasn't predicated on lie on top of lie? Because Kerry vietnam record didn't start a bullshit war and get people killed?



The Berger case was leaked to take heat off of Bush, it had been going on for 8 months, but happened to get dropped at a low point for Bush. Of course the media but on the bait and made a big hub bub. Of course the story died, and you never heard(because the media covered it up :rolleyes ) Berger was completely exonerated.

Yeah, I've heard all of this, or something similar, before.

LOL. Nixonian hatchet man. That's just one instance where you're wrong.
 

3rdman

Member
Makura said:
Yeah, I've heard all of this, or something similar, before.

LOL. Nixonian hatchet man. That's just one instance where you're wrong.

Actually he's right. The ringleader first protested during the Nixon administration...all these "allegations" have already been heard, discussed, and discredited 20+ YEARS AGO while Kerry was fighting against the war.

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth

It is not the first time that Kerry has been criticised by veterans who resented his role in speaking out against the Vietnam war. Writing in The New Yorker, Joe Klein noted that Nixon's chief counsel, Charles Colson formed the Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace featuring John E. O'Neill to attack Kerry.

Klein wrote of a conversation with Colson years later in which he said of Kerry "He was a thorn in our flesh. He was very articulate, a credible leader of the opposition. He forced us to create a counterfoil. We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group."
 

Makura

Member
Yes, and I already knew about that as well.

Disinfopedia is an encyclopedia of people, issues and groups shaping the public agenda. It is a project of the Center for Media & Democracy

CMD staff members Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber have finished writing their fifth book, Banana Republicans: How the Right Wing Is Turning America Into a One-Party State.

LOL. Now I see whats going on.
 

border

Member
Makura said:
LOL. Now I see whats going on.
So are you saying that The New Yorker was lying when they noted that John O'Neil was a Kerry-hater from back in the day? I don't get what difference it makes if you whine about a website that *gasp* has some partisan staffers.
 

Azih

Member
Dude, Makura, your one liners don't even attempt to disprove the claims of the people you're arguing against. All you're doing is "Haha. I don't believe that".
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Excessive use of ad hominem is considered disingenuous and a detriment to discussion.

At most, ad hominem is a yellow flag, signaling that further investigation may be needed(after which you actually do it), but it can NEVER refute an argument outright. Of course, exceptions can be made for people who have a documented history of being clinically insane, like Ann Coulter.
 
Mega Man's Electric Sheep said:
Ann Coulter on Halle Berry winning the Oscar:

"I TUNED IN LATE and consequently can speak only to the last three hours of Halle Berry's acceptance speech at the Academy Awards last Sunday. But inasmuch as she engaged in wild race-baiting to get her Oscar, her expressions of shock were not very believable. She had spent weeks complaining about one time she did not get a role because of her color. It was the part of a forest ranger. Arnold Schwarzenegger probably has trouble getting cast as a ballet dancer, too.

And yet still, somehow, white guilt worked on Hollywood liberals! Berry had successfully mau-maued her way to a best actress award and then acted surprised.

It's interesting that Berry makes such a big deal about being black. She was raised by her white mother who was beaten and abandoned by her black father. Clearly, Berry has calculated that it is more advantageous for her acting career to identify with the man who abandoned her rather than the woman who raised her."



This made my jaw drop! What a racist!

How is that racist? Sorry, but the Oscars that year, were racially motivated. I'm not saying that she can't act at all (but she's not that great either), but there were a handful of women who deserved that award more than her. I honestly felt that the mother from Requiem for a Dream should have gotten it.

Same thing with Denzel. All he did was act like a pissed off badass. Whoop-de-shit. So he pulled a Samuel L. Jackson, and that's supposed to be more difficult to act out than what Russell Crow did in very convincingly acting as if he was slowly losing his mind? Give me a break!

The Oscars were indeed racially motivated, and it's not automatically racist to think so. I find it moronic, to automatically think it's racist to point out such BS.

Heck, every black friend I have agrees that the Oscars were racially motivated. In fact, they’re the one’s who pointed it out to me (well, two of them pointed it out to me while we were hanging out together, and the rest simply agreed when I asked what they thought later on)
 

Azih

Member
She had spent weeks complaining about one time she did not get a role because of her color. It was the part of a forest ranger. Arnold Schwarzenegger probably has trouble getting cast as a ballet dancer, too.

Black people as forest rangers? That's CRAZY! That's about as believe as the Terminator being a ballet dancer! Black people... forest rangers.. HAH!
 

border

Member
The Promised One said:
I honestly felt that the mother from Requiem for a Dream should have gotten it.
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Requiem for a Dream was released 2 years before Halle Berry's Monster's Ball. They weren't even in competition with each other.
All he did was act like a pissed off badass.
Which was pretty much all that Crowe did in Gladiator when he won the year before Training Day. Was that a racially motivated vote as well? Audiences love a very well-played villain, and actors love to play them.....Iago is a pretty coveted role.

If you are going to say that it's race every single time that someone you didn't like wins an Oscar, then 95% of all the awards given are going to be "racially motivated". Or is that only the case when someone of a race other than yours wins? =\
How is that racist?
The idea that a black woman cannot be a forest ranger is disturbingly prejudiced, even ignoring all of the stuff about the Oscar itself.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
The Promised One said:
The Oscars were indeed racially motivated, and it's not automatically racist to think so. I find it moronic, to automatically think it's racist to point out such BS.

questioning the validity of the selection process is one thing... acting as if it's a forgone conclusion that the selections were racially motivated is another.

And like it's already been pointed out, you didn't know what you were talking about, and there was plenty of other offensive remarks in that Coulter snipet.
 
border said:
So are you saying that The New Yorker was lying when they noted that John O'Neil was a Kerry-hater from back in the day? I don't get what difference it makes if you whine about a website that *gasp* has some partisan staffers.
oreilly.jpg

Bill O'Reilly said:
Do your own research!
 

capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
It's interesting that Berry makes such a big deal about being black. She was raised by her white mother who was beaten and abandoned by her black father. Clearly, Berry has calculated that it is more advantageous for her acting career to identify with the man who abandoned her rather than the woman who raised her."



LOL, yeah, because she would have soooooo been accepted as a white person had she claimed to be one.
 
border said:
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Requiem for a Dream was released 2 years before Halle Berry's Monster's Ball. They weren't even in competition with each other.

Monster's Ball (2001)

Requiem for a Dream

Well, you're half right. They're a year apart. I thought they were in competition. Still though, I honestly don't think that role deserved what it got, and that has nothing to do with her being black.



Which was pretty much all that Crowe did in Gladiator when he won the year before Training Day. Was that a racially motivated vote as well? Audiences love a very well-played villain, and actors love to play them.....Iago is a pretty coveted role.

Crowe did a lot more in Gladiator than act pissed, but whatever :rolleyes:



If you are going to say that it's race every single time that someone you didn't like wins an Oscar, then 95% of all the awards given are going to be "racially motivated".

Oh no, you got me! GASP!! You're right!! Every time someone I didn't like wins an Oscar, I always claim race. Yup, how'd you know? No, really, how'd you know? I'm curious, since I've only been on this forum for about two months, and this is the first time I've talked about this subject on this forum.



Or is that only the case when someone of a race other than yours wins?

Oh gee-wiz, you got me again Inspector Gadget. Whatever am I to do!?

Not only are you an ass, but you're an assuming ass, that jumps to idiotic conclusions. In case you're interested, from what I've seen of just the previews, I think Jamie Fox deserves to win this year, for his role in the Ray Charles movie (of course, I might see the actual flick and change my mind). Oh wait, isn't he......*GASP!*.....b-l-a-c-k!! *cue in lightening and spooky dramatic trumpet music* DUN-DUN-DUN!!!!



=\The idea that a black woman cannot be a forest ranger is disturbingly prejudiced, even ignoring all of the stuff about the Oscar itself.

I don't think she, nor the casting director for whatever movie it was, is trying to say that a black woman could never play a forest ranger. What I do think they are saying, is that a certain look/authenticity was what was being looked for, and since black women are VERY rarely forest rangers in real life (if ever), she didn't get hired (out of all my years of watching nature shows, and seeing forest rangers on them, not a one has been black, let alone a black woman)

There's a big fat difference between not thinking someone is right for a particular role racially because they don't really fit the part, and not hiring someone because you happened to just not like people of that race. If I were an actor, and I tried out for a role that in real life is traditionally a black man (like say, a rapper, or a Crack Dealer in the ghetto), I wouldn't consider it racist if I didn't get the part because I'm white. Apples and Oranges.

If you still can't see the difference, then there’s nothing more I can say to you in this matter.
 

Azih

Member
If I were an actor, and I tried out for a role that in real life is traditionally a black man (like say, a rapper, or a Crack Dealer in the ghetto),
Oh my god the undertones, the UNDERTONES!
 

pestul

Member
Halle might not have deserved the Oscar that year (the winner every year pretty much doesn't deserve it due to poor selection anyway).. but to question Denzel's performance in Training Day? He did a heck of a lot more than act angry too. :p
 

Minotauro

Finds Purchase on Dog Nutz
The Promised One said:
(like say, a rapper, or a Crack Dealer in the ghetto)

You forgot basketball player and fried chicken taste tester. :rolleye

That said, I do somewhat agree with you that Halle and Denzel winning that year was a political decision...in the same way that Roman Polanski winning best director last year was one as well.
 
Minotauro said:
You forgot basketball player and fried chicken taste tester. :rolleye
If I missed out on the part of fried chicken taste tester because I was white, I'd sue.

That said, I do somewhat agree with you that Halle and Denzel winning that year was a political decision...in the same way that Roman Polanski winning best director last year was one as well.
Disturbing as it is, yes.

I'm just shocked that some people think the Oscars aren't about politics and "making a statement" and all that.
 
Minotauro said:
That said, I do somewhat agree with you that Halle and Denzel winning that year was a political decision...in the same way that Roman Polanski winning best director last year was one as well.

If they wanted to make a political decision they'd gave it to Audrey Tautou over Halle, who was much better in Amelie anyway. :)
 

DJ Sl4m

Member
maharg said:
I think the question is, is every person who was in vietnam and/or on a swiftboat qualified to speak to kerry's record simply because they were there? Someone who never saw the man in combat isn't really in a position to call him a liar, it seems to me. Whether he was in 'nam or not.


aww, c'mon dude, he served 4 months, got 4 purple hearts with no witnesses to any action or injury, and for christs sake, he even brought an assistant to log his time there.

It was a set up from the beginning, just like certain people have pull to keep thier kids out of the military, I see no reason to think it could be just as easy to make sure he's safe and over excells while completely staying out of harms way.
 

border

Member
The Promised One said:
Oh no, you got me! GASP!! You're right!! Every time someone I didn't like wins an Oscar, I always claim race.
I didn't say that's what you do. Look up the meaning of the word "If".

My point was that the only reason you think that the award was racially motivated was because you think her performance didn't really merit it. That's ridiculous because people without the best performance win every year. For some reason it's tokenism when this happens to a minority actor, but nobody dares say it's white favoritism when it happens to a white actor. Neither of these circumstances is the only reason that people "unjustly" win, and you'd have to be pretty dense not to realize it...
 

effzee

Member
leave The Promised One alone. as he mentioned he has a black friend who also claims both denzel and halle didnt deserve it. case closed.





anyway i love the coulter comment about halle's father being black and how she wants to associate with that. yeah cause u know all black men are wife beaters and thats why halle wants to associate with that. i mean it doesnt have to do with the fact halle is dark, compared to white, and if u are the slightest bit colores u are no longer considered white.

and halle play a park ranger? now that would be just wrong.


i love how ann coulter can call all her critics either leftists or blame treason on them. with that defense she can win every and any argument.
 
Hey there Promised One. I wasn't even referring to the Oscar thing when I called Coulter a racist (although I disagree with her; Monster's Ball was really good). I was referring to this wonderful snippet:


"It's interesting that Berry makes such a big deal about being black. She was raised by her white mother who was beaten and abandoned by her black father. Clearly, Berry has calculated that it is more advantageous for her acting career to identify with the man who abandoned her rather than the woman who raised her."


Why don't you comment on this part instead of arguing who should have won an award? How can you honestly defend her against charges of racism when she claims someone is identifying with their black wife-beating father to further their career? HER SKIN IS BLACK, COULTER! I didn't think Halle was black because she TOLD me she was black as Coulter claims ("making a big deal" as she put it). She can't "identify" with her mother and go around shouting, "I'm white! I'm white!" I also love Coulter's suggestion that racial identity is tied to which parent is a nicer person, not your personal identity and experiences in the world. Coulter is a biiiiiiiig racist. She tries to hide it by bitching that people who might call her on it have "white guilt". No white guilt here, but I am ashamed for her.
 

shantyman

WHO DEY!?
How about some info from a non partisan source:

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

Caught in a straight lie so he wants to back out of it:

Elliott, who had been Kerry's commanding officer, was quoted by the Boston Globe*Aug 6 as saying he had made a "terrible mistake" in signing the affidavit against Kerry, in which Elliott suggested Kerry hadn't told him the truth about how he killed the enemy soldier. Later Elliott signed a second affidavit saying he still stands by the words in the TV ad. But Elliott also made what he called an "immaterial clarification" - saying he has no first-hand information that Kerry was less than forthright about what he did to win the Silver Star.
What Elliott said in the ad is that Kerry "has not been honest about what happened in Viet Nam." In his original affidavit Elliott said Kerry had not been "forthright" in Vietnam. The only example he offered of Kerry not being "honest" or "forthright" was this: "For example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

Elliott had previously defended Kerry on that score when his record was questioned during his 1996 Senate campaign. At that time Elliott came to Boston and said Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star. And as recently as June, 2003, Elliott called Kerry's Silver Star "well deserved" and his action "courageous" for beaching his boat in the face of an ambush:

Elliott (Boston Globe, June 2003):*I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that. . . . (It) was pretty courageous to turn into an ambush*even though you usually find no more than two or three people there.
 

Santo

Junior Member
DJ Sl4m said:
aww, c'mon dude, he served 4 months, got 4 purple hearts with no witnesses to any action or injury, and for christs sake, he even brought an assistant to log his time there.

It was a set up from the beginning, just like certain people have pull to keep thier kids out of the military, I see no reason to think it could be just as easy to make sure he's safe and over excells while completely staying out of harms way.

Men on his own boat stand behind him till this day. But then again, you must have some top secret info that the gov't nor the media have yet to obtain! Bush in 2004!!!
 
effzee said:
leave The Promised One alone. as he mentioned he has a black friend who also claims both denzel and halle didnt deserve it. case closed.





anyway i love the coulter comment about halle's father being black and how she wants to associate with that. yeah cause u know all black men are wife beaters and thats why halle wants to associate with that. i mean it doesnt have to do with the fact halle is dark, compared to white, and if u are the slightest bit colores u are no longer considered white.

and halle play a park ranger? now that would be just wrong.


i love how ann coulter can call all her critics either leftists or blame treason on them. with that defense she can win every and any argument.

I actually agree with you there.

And I have black friends, as in many ;)
 

nitewulf

Member
FoneBone said:
Dear god.

hahahaha...oh man, i just dont know what to say to that, but he does have a black friend, fear not.

anyway, i think halle deserved the oscar that year, because her performance in monster's ball was really very convincing. crowe for instance, should have won the oscar way before for LA COnfidential, in gladiator he was just some macho dude...i didnt see why anyone get an oscar for that sort of a role.

and i dont think anyone can argue the lifetime achievement award given to sydney poitier, given at a convenient time perhaps, but well deserved.
 
FoneBone said:
Dear god.

So, what you're saying is that 99.9% of rappers, as well as crack dealers in the ghetto aren't black? What planet do you live on?

I guess then it's also racist to point out that the majority of police officers and moonshiners are white?

Big fat :rolleyes: on that one.
 

FoneBone

Member
The Promised One said:
So, what you're saying is that 99.9% of rappers, as well as crack dealers in the ghetto aren't black? What planet do you live on?
I'm not saying that -- just that it's rather... interesting that those seem to be the first "black" roles that come to your mind.
 
FoneBone said:
I'm not saying that -- just that it's rather... interesting that those seem to be the first "black" roles that come to your mind.


I can understand "crack dealer" seeming to be defamatory (though, I honestly wasn't trying to be. I don't think that black males are genetically presupposed to being crack dealers or anything. It's an unfortunate social issue.), I don't see how "rapper" is defamatory, since it's something that takes a lot of skill to do well (and is also social).

So please, you name two roles that are very predominately black in real life, without being the least bit sterotypical.

This should be interesting.

But just for kicks, I'll name another role that is 99% white males. Child molester! Almost all child molesters are white males. Well, at least that makes it a bit easier to spot a child molester, which is a good thing in my book. Damn, I guess I'm a self-hating white-boy now, huh?
 

Azih

Member
The Promised One said:
So please, you name two roles that are very predominately black in real life, without being the least bit sterotypical.

Why is the very predominantly clause there in your challenge? There's really no reason for it to be there, so why is it there at all? This whole damn issue started because Coulter (and apparently you) wouldn't find a black female forest ranger believable at all. Shouldn't your challenge be 'name two roles that are believable for a black actor?'.

And to answer THAT question. I find the role of forest ranger to be perfectly believable for a black person. You want another one? Um.... biochemist.

But just for kicks, I'll name another role that is 99% white males. Child molester! Almost all child molesters are white males. Well, at least that makes it a bit easier to spot a child molester, which is a good thing in my book. Damn, I guess I'm a self-hating white-boy now, huh?
Only if 'child molesting' was the first or second thing that popped into your head when asked "What's a good role for a white male actor?". And I somehow doubt that's the case.
 
I will name 2 roles that arecommon for black actors in movies that aren't stereotypical:

1.Mentor (Morpheus, various Sam Jackson and Morgan Freeman movies)
2.Law Enforcement (I Robot, Training Day)


But they're not predominantly black, you say? No, but the point is, there are roles for black actors that come to mind before crack dealer. I assure you, most drug dealers are white. Most criminals of any type are white, because there are more white people in the US than any other race. So of course most roles if you cast them based on who was more likely to be that person (black or white) you would in most cases answer white. But why not just cast the movie based on the person's acting abilities? Why can't a black actor get an Oscar without cries of "she got it because she's black"? Was Ebert raving about her performance because she was black, or because it was great?

Those roles of mentor and law enforcement I mentioned above could have been played by actors of any race, and that is the case most of the time, unless the movie is about race. Look at Daredevil, where the villain is black (even though the original character was white). But you know what? Michael Clarke Duncan suited the role AS AN ACTOR. Even *shudder* Catwoman, another Halle Berry movie. Although it sucks, it's not because Catwoman is black. Why can't Catwoman be black? If you think roles that have nothing to do with race can only be played by a white guy (or a black guy), you might want to think about the way you look at race, no matter how many black friends you have to make you feel better about the way you think.
 
Azih said:
Why is the very predominantly clause there in your challenge?

Because that is why I used the roles I did, because of their predominance. That was my point. It's pretty obvious if you'd actually read what I said, instead of just scannning it for a way to refute it somehow. Which btw, you did very weakly.


"What's a role that, to portray realism in today's society, would probably have to be portrayed by a white male actor?"

Fixed

Child Molester. Want another? Moonshiner. Here's another; Redneck and/or Hillbilly.

So, are you going to answer the question, or just continue to avoid it, while trying to label me as a closet skin-head.
 
"What's a role that, to portray realism in today's society, would probably have to be portrayed by a white male actor?"



Fixed

Child Molester. Want another? Moonshiner. Here's another; Redneck and/or Hillbilly."


And apparently also, according to you, forest ranger. That's obviously next on your list of stereotypically white roles, right?
 
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