As I said, you better hope they don't. History is litered with examples of people eating shit from the hands of people they felt indifferent to.
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China officially commissions first aircraft carrier
- Thread starter shinobi602
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As I said, you better hope they don't. History is litered with examples of people eating shit from the hands of people they felt indifferent to.
StealthGoblin
Banned
People mocking the Chinese efforts are fools.
Sure, they only have one. But then one will become two, two will become three. They have both the money and the workforce to churn these out incredibly quickly if they want to.
You only have to look at the skyline of Beijing to see what the Chinese can do in a short period of time if they put their efforts into something.
It'll be interesting to see how far they go.
Sure, they only have one. But then one will become two, two will become three. They have both the money and the workforce to churn these out incredibly quickly if they want to.
You only have to look at the skyline of Beijing to see what the Chinese can do in a short period of time if they put their efforts into something.
It'll be interesting to see how far they go.
SiteSeer
Member
such a ... colorful ... word.
regardless, the f22 is plainly superior, if only because these planes are years from operational status and flying with technology several generations behind the f22's. will come back to this thread when their core technology (other than stealth shaping) catches up.
These are rendered, who cares. Plus the J-15 (what is it, su-33?) is still much sexier looking.
Cue "Danger Zone" in Chinese lyrics. I am sure there is one on youtube.
Relevant to this tread. Carriers are a relic of the past and more of a status symbol than anything, really. This is more of a PPRR move in the midst of the Senkaku crisis rather than any meaningful addition to their arsenal.
Lagspike_exe
Member
What? What is this inferior Chinese "core technology" you are talking about?
TacticalFox88
Banned
....That's not how it works. And lol if you think a carrier wouldn't see any ballistic missile coming hundreds of miles away.
The only way to sink a US carrier would be to
A)Disable all Radar on the Carrier
B)Disable all the ships escorting the carriers radar
C)Shoot down any F-18s (Or in the future F-35's) that might be in the Air space
D)Sink all of the ships escorting the carrier
E)Somehow disabling the submarines UNDERWATER from activating SOSUS to contact the Pentagon
F)Use whatever resources after that to sink the carrier
Oh and not to mention A-F has to be completed within about 3-5 minutes.
The odds of even A happening are extremely unlikely let alone all six.
SiteSeer
Member
god the list is long, but for starters the major piece missing are the engines, then the alloys and materials, then the avionics, radar tech, electronic counter measures/comms, even the missile tech. maybe some of the tech are more advanced & they are keeping secrets close to their chest, don't want to show their cards, but from the outside at least, they got a long road ahead of them.
also tino, the j-20 and j-31 are both flight tested, not only renders.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Locating a balistic missilie is NOT anywhere remotely near actually destroying it in the air. Newly deployed balistic missiles usually cannot be destroyed with present tech. It usually takes 20+ years of development to create AA systems being able to shot them down.
Well then you should have posed the actual pictures.
Anyway the 5th generation fighters are much interior to the old fighters in the look department.
The sea planes are always the best looking.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Any and all missile defense can be overwhelmed, and it takes fewer missiles to penetrate air defense the faster they're going. A Carrier Task Force cannot be expected to reliably intercept a dozen DF-21D's pulling 2.2 kips or more. Their best defense is preventing hostile forces from acquiring accurate targeting data.
Nah, no other country is stupid enough to emulate US military spending levels.
That is a lot of crazy ranting.
Anyway, most people, like that crazy ranter, continue to think in terms of China building up to be a peer competitor to the US. But just look at how the US uses its naval power--not against peers, but against less capable nations, to see where it is more likely going.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Yeah, and if China builds a few carriers, there will be Hawks in the U.S. Government that will want to build more to "match" them, even with the nine or so already commissioned (not counting assault ships).
When the Royal Navy was the undisputed global sea power, they had a rule where they needed to match the next two largest navies in the world at least in combined ship numbers/firepower. With the current US Navy, it's more like the next ten.
You guys don't understand the US's business model.
The reason the US need 10 carrier group is that US need the military projection to ensure the US dollar is the world currentcy.
China doesn't need to do that or plan to do that.
China is already in the dollar system.
All China need to do is print more RMB whenever the Federal reserve/current US president print more dollars.
China need to have one or two carriers for completely different reasons. Taking up the tiny islands in south China sea for one thing.
The reason the US need 10 carrier group is that US need the military projection to ensure the US dollar is the world currentcy.
China doesn't need to do that or plan to do that.
China is already in the dollar system.
All China need to do is print more RMB whenever the Federal reserve/current US president print more dollars.
China need to have one or two carriers for completely different reasons. Taking up the tiny islands in south China sea for one thing.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
The brits were probably the same a century ago when the Kaiserliche Marine and imperial japanese navies first started laying down keels. Times change.
Turns out spending a massive chunk of your GDP each year solely on the navy isnt a great thing, but still fun times while they lasted.
hopefuly they also put effort into assistance programs for the poverty stricken society and give education to the kids thay cant go to school.
michaelius
Banned
Quite the opposite - Brits fully understood that Royal Navy is spread among vast area of oceans so their numerical advantage is only on paper against German navy concentrated in single area which pushed them into creation of first modern battleship Drednought.
Oh and they helped to built most of initial Japanise navy
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
A missile with a multi warhead explosive load could very well sink an carrier.
scotcheggz
Member
As there is in just about any thread about China these days on GAF. Absolutely predictable but still quite funny.
weekend_warrior
Banned
That is one ugly fucking plane.
It's silly to underestimate China. If not now then in 30-50 years THEY will be the superpower in the world.
Not so long ago people were saying that Chinese can't build buildings, they are peasants and what not. Got Americans and Europeans to show them how, now they build them faster and better then those two.
I mean look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFvntsbGP_Q
doesn't matter if it is a copy, they did it and they are learning from it.
China deserves respect imo
Not so long ago people were saying that Chinese can't build buildings, they are peasants and what not. Got Americans and Europeans to show them how, now they build them faster and better then those two.
I mean look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFvntsbGP_Q
doesn't matter if it is a copy, they did it and they are learning from it.
China deserves respect imo
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
They will be a superpower, alongside the United States, and with a possible superpower status recovery by the Russian Federation, with India waiting in the flanks as a potential superpower. If Europe federates or even just gets close military and foreign policy cooperation passed in that timeframe, then it will pretty much instantly join the superpower club too.
Usually it's balanced out by Xenon's cheerleading and mud slinging at USA.
why would seeing it coming make any difference?
As I've said there doesn't exist an effective way to counter ballistic missiles.
What about the Phalanx cannon? I'm not informed of their effectiveness but this is what they're designed for, yes?
Different strokes and all that, but I think Su-27 derived planes are the hottest looking in the world.
The US is moving from the Nimitz Class to the Ford Class soon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford_class_aircraft_carrier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford_class_aircraft_carrier
What's with those automated gatling guns? Can't they shoot it down?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
No, the engagement window for a gun type CIWS is less than a second on a ballistic missile. RAM and other missile-based defenses also are likely to be worthless given that they're firing at something going between Mach 5 and 10. The best bet for interception is not any of the CIWS systems, but instead the mid-course ballistic missile defense weapons that are part of AEGIS, like the Standard Missile III. These aren't a surefire way to intercept it, though.
ok, I vastly underestimated the speed of these
All serious consideration aside, I can't stop giggling at the goddamn ramp on that thing.
Anyway, I'm actually pretty surprised that China didn't have an aircraft carrier before now. I guess it's easy to overestimate their military capability given all the paranoia about our impending Chinese overlords that goes around in the US.
Anyway, I'm actually pretty surprised that China didn't have an aircraft carrier before now. I guess it's easy to overestimate their military capability given all the paranoia about our impending Chinese overlords that goes around in the US.
TacticalFox88
Banned
So you think.
I don't see them needing extremely high tech stuff.
weekend_warrior
Banned
Yeah and I'm sure your at the top pinnacle of military knowledge.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Made in China
::breaks after first use::
::breaks after first use::
Chinese government broke a few treaties to get their hands on the carrier. Was explicitly forbidden to be bought for military purposes so they used the typical shell company to buy it to make it into a "casino". Of course once sold it went straight to the military.
Its the popular excuse too. China bought the Melbourne Light Carrier from the UK for use as a "casino"
The Melbourne wasn't bought to be used as a casino.
There is nothing except speculation that the Varyag was explicitly forbidden to be used for military purposes (if it was explicit, there would be more official sources of this explicit prohibition).
And of course, no treaties were broken.
What the hell would they use it for? Patrol the tibetan mountains?
It's funny because since when did I actually cheerlead anything? Or how about this, let's count how many China thread I have ever created in this hugely biased and un-educated subforum?
I am talking about military tech that the public is aware of. considering how much the U.S spends on their military, I wouldn't be surprised if they indeed have effective countermeasures.
Cute that you think they can't do anything.
China did purchase a small carrier and turn it into a fancy theme park in Shenzhen.
I took this pic btw.
To protect our oil platforms from pirates in south china sea.
-- LOL. Some of you people would be shocked and amazed at how little tech the military has now or is fit for active service in the next decade given their budgets. But this magical thinking that the US military has all sorts of secret projects hidden away ready to enter mass production at a moments notice does give me, and probably anyone who has actually ever dealt or seen how procurement works, a hearty chuckle.
-- If the Navy actually had any faith in their missile countermeasures (real or imagined) there wouldn't be so much anguish and journal ink spilled on how to mitigate anti-access technologies like high-speed SSMs. Even a single Chinese carrier (and let's be honest here, it's just a testbed) adds a lot of complexity to any operational planning in that entire sphere of interest, and the cost/benefit is entirely in China's favor given the rapidly aging carrier fleet and the high likelyhood we won't be able to afford the replacements. Even the possibility of it being in an area of conflict forces all sorts of nasty (and expensive) compromises on the part of our own fleet.
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