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[Woopah]

Interesting stats.

For me it depends on the game. Some games I prefer playing in handheld mode while others I play on the TV. I'm not sure why I do this though. Could be that some games feel better on the TV while others I prefer to game while in bed.

It will be down to the game or circumstances.

In Japan, people are probably happy playing Animal Crossing or Minecraft in portable mode, but for Ring Fit Adventure, Momotaro or Super Mario Wonder they'll want to play them on TV a lot.

 

[lucbr]

We have an "xbox ambassador" here. Bank transfer from Phil is on the way...

On the Brazil market comment - even if it's in top 10 it's not a big market (considering the size of the country). Examples? Japan is $73B market, China $43B, UK is over $8B, Germany is over $8B, France and Spain very similar. In all those markets xbox is in the very distant 3rd place. US is the only large market where xbox is somehow "trying" to catch up...
Brazil? The market will reach $2B revenue in 2023. No matter how big xbox is there it's not something that has an impact on grand scale of things. Brazil is unfortunately very well known for piracy, also on consoles.

Just because I put some perspective on the numbers am I now considered an ambassador? I could ask you the same question, how much is Sony paying you?

The game market in Brazil was 2.6 billion in 2022, above Spain, for example. This was at a time when the Brazilian currency was undervalued. In 2023, it has already appreciated by almost 9%, which could leave the numbers near the levels of Italy and Canada, a position that Brazil occupied for a few years back, taking into account the games market in general. If you research you can find other studies, interviews, that show that Brazil and Mexico were among the 5 biggest Xbox markets. In this example, you can see how Xbox is more prevalent in those countries. Sony itself, In a recent slide, placed Brazil as its 8th largest market and the country was the 5th by traffic on Steam. They are far from being irrelevant numbers.

That said, my point was that, contrary to what has been said in the post I replied, Xbox is not competitive only in the US. Of the top 10 gaming markets, it is very competitive in the US, Canada, England and Brazil, that's 4 out of 10.

 

[VitoNotVito]

Just because I put some perspective on the numbers am I now considered an ambassador? I could ask you the same question, how much is Sony paying you?

The game market in Brazil was 2.6 billion in 2022, above Spain, for example. This was at a time when the Brazilian currency was undervalued. In 2023, it has already appreciated by almost 9%, which could leave the numbers near the levels of Italy and Canada, a position that Brazil occupied for a few years back, taking into account the games market in general. If you research you can find other studies, interviews, that show that Brazil and Mexico were among the 5 biggest Xbox markets. In this example, you can see how Xbox is more prevalent in those countries. Sony itself, In a recent slide, placed Brazil as its 8th largest market and the country was the 5th by traffic on Steam. They are far from being irrelevant numbers.

That said, my point was that, contrary to what has been said in the post I replied, Xbox is not competitive only in the US. Of the top 10 gaming markets, it is very competitive in the US, Canada, England and Brazil, that's 4 out of 10.

It's "competing" in those 4 markets but still significantly behind. In the UK for example, the current xbox generation is - already - worse than previous one when it comes to market share.

Sony unfortunately doesn't pay me anything. Looking at all your posts on GAF you're doing a great fanboy work. I really hope they pay you well for this!

 

[MrA]

Why are the Japanese the only ones who do this console thing well?

More like Nintendo and Sony, other Japanese companies have tried and failed outright, epoch, gakken, casio, koei, towns,
And only 4 others had some success. Sega bandai nec and snk
But then a few other US consoles had some success mattel, coleco and magnavox,

Well yes. Everyone would have used the console at least once on the TV. If 95% of the gaming time is spent in handheld mode though, I'd still call it a handheld, while technically being a hybrid.
As I see it, if the Switch never had an HDMI-out port, it would still sell as much as it did.

You really think more versatility didn't increase sales?

 

[Tsaki]

You really think more versatility didn't increase sales?

I think of it more like someone wouldn't skip it because it doesn't connect to the TV.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I think of it more like someone wouldn't skip it because it doesn't connect to the TV.

THIS!

Are we forgetting the sale numbers of DS and 3DS?

Did people skip them because they couldn't connect those to the TV???

 

[MrA]

THIS!

Are we forgetting the sale numbers of DS and 3DS?

Did people skip them because they couldn't connect those to the TV???

Ds was a cultural phenomenon, and the switch will nearly if not double the sales of the 3ds,

I think of it more like someone wouldn't skip it because it doesn't connect to the TV.

A family with multiple kids, people that don't want to play on a handheld, the switch lite is less than 20% of switch sales, clearly people want that versatility

 

[Woopah]

THIS!

Are we forgetting the sale numbers of DS and 3DS?

Did people skip them because they couldn't connect those to the TV???

Given that Switch will outsell 3DS and DS in Japan, at a higher price and with higher software sales, the answer is probably yes.

The DS would have sold better if it had been able to play Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and offer same-TV local multiplayer. Whereas Switch would have sold better if it got the same level of third party support as the DS.

 

[lucbr]

It's "competing" in those 4 markets but still significantly behind. In the UK for example, the current xbox generation is - already - worse than previous one when it comes to market share.

Sony unfortunately doesn't pay me anything. Looking at all your posts on GAF you're doing a great fanboy work. I really hope they pay you well for this!

Are you sure I am the fanboy?

I showed numbers and sources corroborating what I reported. I didn't say Xbox improved, I said it competes in 4 of the top 10 markets. I also checked the information about the Brazilian market. If you do not like this information, please send an e-mail to those responsibles.

 

[Tsaki]

A family with multiple kids, people that don't want to play on a handheld, the switch lite is less than 20% of switch sales, clearly people want that versatility

A family with multiple kids

I don't follow this one.

people that don't want to play on a handheld

They'd still buy a Switch to play Nintendo games just like they did for the previous handhelds

the switch lite is less than 20%

And it came out over two years later and it doesn't have a definitive OLED version.

 

[MrA]

I don't follow this one.

1 switch whole family can play mario kart smash bros etc on the TV together, you know a super common thing to do

 

[Woopah]

And it came out over two years later and it doesn't have a definitive OLED version.

In this week in Japan in 2021 (so before the OLED came out) the Switch outsold the Switch Lite 6:1

 

[MisterXDTV]

I don't follow this one.

They'd still buy a Switch to play Nintendo games just like they did for the previous handhelds

And it came out over two years later and it doesn't have a definitive OLED version.

Here people are rewriting history:

- Game Boy + Game Boy Advance = 200 milion units
- DS = 154 million units
- 3DS = 76 milion units

"People don't want to play Nintendo games on handhelds"

LOL

The only difference now is that Nintendo doesn't make a "home console" anymore. So you buy 1 product instead of 2

 

[Tsaki]

1 switch whole family can play mario kart smash bros etc on the TV together, you know a super common thing to do

Local Co-Op is a thing of many games, yes. They'd buy multiple Switches for the kids, like it's a common thing now anyway.

In this week in Japan in 2021 (so before the OLED came out) the Switch outsold the Switch Lite 6:1

The reasons for someone to buy a Switch are Nintendo 1st party and its portability.
The people that would ignore the above because they can't get their games on a TV is miniscule. Might as well ask how many sales the DS lost because it wasn't TV compatible.

 

[Woopah]

"People don't want to play Nintendo games on handhelds"

No one is saying this.

 

[MisterXDTV]

The reasons for someone to buy a Switch are Nintendo 1st party and its portability.
The people that would ignore the above because they can't get their games on a TV is miniscule. Might as well ask how many sales the DS lost because it wasn't TV compatible.

Actually the DS sale number is even more impressive considering it wasn't the only Nintendo console on the market to play those first party games: GameCube (then Wii) was a thing

 

[//DEVIL//]

Honestly I am surprised at the Xbox numbers in the US. I thought they were way below the PS5. color be surprised.

 

[Woopah]

Local Co-Op is a thing of many games, yes. They'd buy multiple Switches for the kids, like it's a common thing now anyway.

The reasons for someone to buy a Switch are Nintendo 1st party and its portability.
The people that would ignore the above because they can't get their games on a TV is miniscule. Might as well ask how many sales the DS lost because it wasn't TV compatible.

The reasons for someone to buy a Switch are its software (mostly first party but third party is also important), its portability and its ability to play games on a TV.

Its hybrid nature is an essential part of its success that should not be undervalued. That's plain to see from the software

Let's put it this way. Do you really believe that local multiplayer is something the Switch audience doesn't care about? That it doesn't influence people's decision to buy the console at all?

 

[Tsaki]

Let's put it this way. Do you really believe that local multiplayer is something the Switch audience doesn't care about? That it doesn't influence people's decision to buy the console at all.

Not enough for people to skip the console entirely. And there would be a solution for those that REALLY wanted it: multiple Switches.
I see it as people that skip Halo because it doesn't have split-screen. They talk about it and would like to have it but the ones that in practice follow through with it are statistically insignificant.

 

[Woopah]

Not enough for people to skip the console entirely. And there would be a solution for those that REALLY wanted it: multiple Switches.
I see it as people that skip Halo because it doesn't have split-screen. They talk about it and would like to have it but the ones that in practice follow through with it are statistically insignificant.

What is the bolded based on?

It would be like saying that PS4 owners or Switch owners like the option to play online, but they would all still buy the console even if it didn't offer online play.

 

[Tsaki]

No online play and couch co-op are nowhere near the same league. Woopah

 

[Woopah]

No online play and couch co-op are nowhere near the same league. Woopah

How are coming to this conclusion? Both online multiplayer and local multiplayer are hugely important to the Switch's success. They'd sell far far fewer consoles if they only offered one or the other.

Edit": If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying online multiplayer is highly important to Nintendo's audience, but that local multiplayer is just a "nice to have" for them?

 

[Tsaki]

How are coming to this conclusion? Both online multiplayer and local multiplayer are hugely important to the Switch's success. They'd sell far far fewer consoles if they only offered one or the other.

A Switch that is unable to connect to the internet is not the same as a Switch that does not connect to the TV. The first one is a day-0 dead console the second might lose a couple million sales. And it would still have local multiplayer, just like the Gameboy did, just like the DS and 3DS did.

 

[El Pistolero]

Honestly I am surprised at the Xbox numbers in the US. I thought they were way below the PS5. color be surprised.

I do not know if one could derive anything meaningful from them. The US is by far Xbox strongest territory, and 2022 had shortages written all over it. 2023 will be a better indicator, imo.

 

[Woopah]

A Switch that is unable to connect to the internet is not the same as a Switch that does not connect to the TV. The first one is a day-0 dead console the second might lose a couple million sales. And it would still have local multiplayer, just like the Gameboy did, just like the DS and 3DS did.

Again, what are you basing this on?

A Switch with no online play loses millions of hardware sales. A Switch that doesn't connect to a TV also loses millions of hardware sales

The loss of either one reduces the popularity of key, hardware pushing games.

 

[noobie]

will PS5 be able to do Nintendo Switch - 2020 like numbers something between 8-9 million in USA in 2023?
Sony needs such numbers if it want to achieve 25 million...

 

[Tsaki]

Again, what are you basing this on?

A Switch with no online play loses millions of hardware sales. A Switch that doesn't connect to a TV also loses millions of hardware sales

The loss of either one reduces the popularity of key, hardware pushing games.

Nintendo created a Switch which doesn't connect to the TV. They didn't create a Switch that doesn't have a Wi-Fi chip. They clearly believe these two are not comparable and one would lose them many more millions than the other.

 

[Woopah]

Nintendo created a Switch which doesn't connect to the TV. They didn't create a Switch that doesn't have a Wi-Fi chip. They clearly believe these two are not comparable and one would lose them many more millions than the other.

That's because the economics of removing the WiFi chip are non existant. Why would they do that ?

And as I myself just said, the Switch which doesn't connect to the TV sells millions and millions fewer units than the one that does. Showing that the ability to connect to a TV is a huge reason why people buy the Switch.

(Edit: I appreciate your commitment to the debate by the way).

 

[mckmas8808]

will PS5 be able to do Nintendo Switch - 2020 like numbers something between 8-9 million in USA in 2023?
Sony needs such numbers if it want to achieve 25 million...

YES! 100% they will.

 

[Tsaki]

That's because the economics of removing the WiFi chip are non existant. Why would they do that ?

And as I myself just said, the Switch which doesn't connect to the TV sells millions and millions fewer units than the one that does. Showing that the ability to connect to a TV is a huge reason why people buy the Switch.

It could be just a nice-to-have situation. But if Switch released in 2017 with no hybrid, just portable, but of course the exact library as today (since no matter what all games must be playable in portable mode anyway), how much do you think it would impact it? Would enough people be willing to ignore Pokemon, Zelda, AC and Mario because they don't have a TV attached to it?

I appreciate your commitment to the debate by the way

Haha yeah you do give numbers and those definitely make me doubt myself, but it doesn't sit quite right with me that putting the console in that plastic container is that important compared to being a handheld and having Nintendo games.

 

[Woopah]

It could be just a nice-to-have situation. But if Switch released in 2017 with no hybrid, just portable, but of course the exact library as today (since no matter what all games must be playable in portable mode anyway), how much do you think it would impact it? Would enough people be willing to ignore Pokemon, Zelda, AC and Mario because they don't have a TV attached to it?

Haha yeah you do give numbers and those definitely make me doubt myself, but it doesn't sit quite right with me that putting the console in that plastic container is that important compared to being a handheld and having Nintendo games.

I was also thinking about this comparison and yes it makes sense to explain my point of view.

I think if Nintendo launched just the Switch Lite at $299 in March 2017, with the same lineup of games, it would probably sell similar to the 3DS in the West, but maybe less in Japan (since 3DS got much stronger third party support than Switch in its first few years .)

In Japan specifically, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Zelda and Splatoon and others would still have driven good hardware sales, but Smash Bros., Mario Kart, 2D Mario, Taiko, Momotaro and others would have lost power as those franchises are stronger on TV consoles.

And then you'd have big successes like Super Mario Party, Ring Fit and Switch Sports which would no longer exist to push hardware sales since you can't play them portability.

So I'd say maybe 20-23 million in Japan and 80-90 million worldwide.