There's no evidence federal mandates have that I've seen. Do you have any data that shows since the implementation of federal mandates, there's been a sharp decline in COVID spread?
What reason do you have to believe they don't? This is basic common sense.
Again, all I want is data to show it. Don't you think if it did exist, with the amount of push back there's been against vaccines, that health experts and politicians would be standing up at their podiums across the country pushing concrete data that shows they're working like they did with the vaccines? There hasn't been any. If there is, Fauci and others would be on TV daily saying "In so and so city, they have strong vaccine mandates and COVID cases in this city have dropped by 30% since" or whatever. It hasn't happened.
Okay you can believe what you want. I can't stop you. But the reality is that the mandates have helped by virtue of what they do. Exactly how much they have helped as time has gone on is up for debate sure, but they have obviously helped because any increase in vaccinations is a net positive for the country.
If morons in Texas and Florida are going to demand the right for the local governments to decide how to handle the mandates then that is what is gonna happen. You will obviously have the ignorant appealing to the anti-vaxxers by removing the mandates and ignoring common sense. But you will also have the complete opposite end of the spectrum as well for places like NYC.
I meant mandates, that was a typo on my part.
I just want to point out that in the analysis you are making there is a hidden social cost to mandates; i.e. more or less forcing people who are deeply entrenched against vaccination to take one anyway is going to cause a hell of a lot of resentment and bitterness in a time when there is already more than enough of that going around to cause society to become increasingly insular and unstable.
If our society is so ignorant and fragile that making people take a vaccine that is free and can actually save their life and/or the lives of their loved ones is enough to cause it all to crumble then that society doesn't need to exist in the first place.
Oh indeed.
I don’t think governments have any clue on how to handle the whole thing.Follow the rules.
People are still dying.
Why can't you people just understand that its about more than just "you", we need to protect the old & vulnerable and if closing clubs for 4 week means that then so be it. Rules are rules. Also whilst you're at it, have a 4th jab just for peace of mind.
Or something like that, which I got spouted over & over. Take the damn jab! Sit at home damnit!!
Sorry I was meant to be sitting & just watching wasn't I, back to the sidelines I go.
If the USA didn't have the vaccine mandates in place, do you think we'd have a higher vaccination rate or lower vaccination rate?
Slightly higher, because individual mandates would already account for the far majority of vaccination increases, and like I said, I'm ok with private business and institutional mandates, not federal.
Then, if you think that the vaccines save lives, and that mandates make vaccine adoption higher in general, you'd have to conclude that vaccine mandates save lives too because of the higher uptake.
Almost all the responsible people who would voluntarily get the vaccine did so when it was first available. Fortunately, it was a majority of the eligible population. Unfortunately, that isn't good enough because herd immunity of the delta variant requires a much higher percentage of vaccination among the population. Once the carrot stops working, stricter methods are some of the only options left on the table.
What I’m saying is the few people I think federal mandates lead to getting vaccinated is outweighed by the drawbacks of the mandates.
Would it be fair to say that you think that vaccine mandates do encourage "X amount" more people to get vaccinated, which does save lives, but that the "X amount" increased is marginal and that it doesn't move the needle enough to offset the negative drawbacks of the mandate?
For the federal mandates yes. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but I think people choosing to get the vaccine on their own accord + people giving in and getting the vaccines due to work mandates or individual private business mandates(like their favorite restaurants) account for the far far FAR majority of those vaccinated. I think federal mandates make up a very tiny % of those who're vaccinated.
Salt: 90
How did you determine this, and what makes you think that it is correct? Is it merely a hunch?
The unemployment rate now is the same as it was in 2017.
I don't see the connection between the current mandate and lack of trust. Could you explain how one leads to the other?
Do businesses not have rights because they're forced to check ID of people buying alcohol and cigarettes even though limiting their pool of potential customers hurts their business?
Mandatory vaccination for schooling has been in place for decades now, with hardly anyone complaining about it, and most people acknowledging the benefits of it.
Those parents are being irresponsible if they're not vaccinating their kids because it's not just about the kids, but it's also about the people whom those kids come into contact with.
Those healthcare workers who braved the early days of COVID should be commended for their help. Does that mean they can be derelict in their duty now by refusing vaccination? Because that's what they're doing if they're not vaccinated. Healthcare workers should be experts and practitioners in, you know, health optimizing protocols.
I'm going to ask this again:
For one, we can consult history to see how we've gotten rid of other diseases in the past, and try to incorporate those strategies.
well maybe just because there's a bunch of anti-vaxxers around that are deeply entrenched and perhaps not entirely rational in their decision making doesn't mean we should declare our entire society/civilization futile.
Thats not what I said. I said that if something as simple as a mandate regarding a life saving vaccine is enough to cause society to crumble then it was a weak society in the first place. That is not the same as saying it is worthless.
Well yeah, it's always been misleading, but it's consistently misleading. What other metric should we use that is better?
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www.reuters.com
Yeah that's not on the vaccine guidelines. That sounds like a person who had severe mental issues to begin with.Man killed family, then self, over faked vaccine pass -German prosecutor
A man who killed his wife and three young children before taking his own life had faked a vaccination certificate and feared his children would be taken away from him when the forgery was discovered, a German prosecutor said on Tuesday.
what is happening
I determined that with the vaccine rates having no real increase nationally after federal mandates and a combination of generally reading the tea leaves. I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise. No data to dispute that opinion.How did you determine this, and what makes you think that it is correct? Is it merely a hunch?
The unemployment rate now is the same as it was in 2017.
I don't see the connection between the current mandate and lack of trust. Could you explain how one leads to the other?
If this is a test run for something more serious, then we're fucked. Well, specifically, the 30% of us who don't want to do what's necessary to protect themselves and their families are particularly fucked.
Do businesses not have rights because they're forced to check ID of people buying alcohol and cigarettes even though limiting their pool of potential customers hurts their business?
Mandatory vaccination for schooling has been in place for decades now, with hardly anyone complaining about it, and most people acknowledging the benefits of it.
Those parents are being irresponsible if they're not vaccinating their kids because it's not just about the kids, but it's also about the people whom those kids come into contact with.
Myocarditis side effects are an insignificant speck compared to the numerous health risks of contracting COVID19. Not vaccinating because of myocarditis worries is like not locking your house in a neighborhood full of thieves because you're afraid you might forget your key.
Those healthcare workers who braved the early days of COVID should be commended for their help. Does that mean they can be derelict in their duty now by refusing vaccination? Because that's what they're doing if they're not vaccinated. Healthcare workers should be experts and practitioners in, you know, health optimizing protocols.
Besides, even without the federal mandate, how many hospitals do you think would have decided to not implement a vaccine mandate for COVID like many do for the flu? They would be crazy to not make sure they're doing all that they can to preserve and protect life, since that is their job.
From 2018:
I'm going to ask this again:
Is this a uniquely American problem? Why is it that you think other countries can get to a higher vaccination rate without having a mandate? Is it the mandates that people have a problem with, or the entities who are proposing/supporting it? If the polarized politicization of our zeitgeist wasn't so bad, would this even be an issue? In the current climate, if the Ds and Rs were reversed, would the same people be for and against mandates?
Relevant is relevant. I couldn't care less about Democrats or Republicans.
??
no shit Sherlock.. look at the South Africa numbers a couple of days back ..
