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David Jaffe sucks at Metroid

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Resident Cheap Arse
And you should try to learn when to take people seriously and when to recognize they are just having some fun.

It's a video game, man. I think it's got some bad design in it. Also think there's some cool stuff in it. Even the BEST games I've ever designed had crap in them.

Beyond THAT it's all a question of delivery.

I appreciate and understand a number of you don't like the way I delivered it. I get it. But all you do when you push on me to change the delivery is make me want to triple down. Because I just find the whole thing so fascinating/funny/disturbing why ANYONE cares so much about what someone says about a game (or any creative product).

For ex: I LOVE Phil Collins and Taylor Swift and Adam Sandler comedies and the show Supergirl. Oh, and Auburn football. Hell, I even like some songs by Nickleback (Burn it to the Ground is fantastic). All of these things are widely hated and mocked. And guess what? I still love them and am very public about my love for them and I genuinely don't care if people mock these things. Hell, in the case of Supergirl, I even GET and agree it's pretty bad...but I still love it. I guess what I'm asking is: why do you care SO MUCH?

And before you ask me why I do, let's be clear (again): Video #1 I cared. All the other videos I cared about putting out content that was honest and engaging but I had already said what I wanted to say about Metroid. After that it's just been fun marketing and money making.

The problem is, you're just pulling that childish "uh-uh I was just joking" excuse because you can't let it go. You made that snarky remark because you still can't handle that your view has not been accepted. just like you HAD to make another video about the game after declaring the one just before that would be the very last one.

It's up to you whether you want to triple down, but doing so demonstrates in itself a lack of rational thinking around the subject and your ability to handle critisism. Tripling down doesn't stick it to the haters, it just digs you ever deeper into that hole and further undermines your credibility and standing on such subjects.

As for the final statement about it just being all about marketing and money making - that's just admitting that your views and credibility have no value and are open to be sold for as little as a fleeting spark of internet attention. That admission is probably the most damning admission you could make because it shows that your videos and "professional views" are dictated by an instagrammer-like need for attention and are as likely to be bad-faith arguments and drama fishing than the professional expertise you've tried to claim them to be. You should be better than that.
 
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Neff

Member
Dude, I am SO sorry! I am trying to figure out why whenever I post a tweet or video it sends out a magical signal that literally FORCES you to watch my shit and pay attention.

Well, y'know, here we are.

This thread alone is proof that the particular brand of antagonistic and wilfully ignorant self-promotion you've subscribed to unfortunately doesn't confine itself to the outlets it hatched from.

Besides, I'm allowed to watch stupid shit and call it stupid, it's a wonderful luxury I would never give up.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
The problem is, you're just pulling that childish "uh-uh I was just joking" excuse because you can't let it go. You made that snarky remark because you still can't handle that your view has not been accepted. just like you HAD to make another video about the game after declaring the one just before that would be the very last one.

It's up to you whether you want to triple down, but doing so demonstrates in itself a lack of rational thinking around the subject and your ability to handle critisism. Tripling down doesn't stick it to the haters, it just digs you ever deeper into that hole and further undermines your credibility and standing on such subjects.

As for the final statement about it just being all about marketing and money making - that's just admitting that your views and credibility have no value and are open to be sold for as little as a fleeting spark of internet attention. That admission is probably the most damning admission you could make because it shows that your videos and "professional views" are dictated by an instagrammer-like need for attention and are as likely to be bad-faith arguments and drama fishing than the professional expertise you've tried to claim them to be. You should be better than that.
As I said, video #1 was earnest and honest and I still stand by the content (in all the videos). Trust me, even if I had made that one video, it would not have credibility with a lot of you guys. Which is fine. But admitting that the follow ups were still honest but mostly for fun and marketing doesn't discredit the core idea from video #1 (that is repeated over and over in the follow up videos).

As for letting it go, I honestly have no problem having a minority view on a particular aspect of game design. What I struggle to let go of- and what continues to fascinate me- is the Metroid fanbase reaction. I will admit, I will miss examining and fucking around with it cause it's so foreign to me.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
Well, y'know, here we are.

This thread alone is proof that the particular brand of antagonistic and wilfully ignorant self-promotion you've subscribed to unfortunately doesn't confine itself to the outlets it hatched from.

Besides, I'm allowed to watch stupid shit and call it stupid, it's a wonderful luxury I would never give up.
Yes- and I very much appreciate you watching it. Thank you, sir!
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
#1- Your mom jokes are always funny. Not as funny as the face your mother makes when she climaxes, but still: always funny.
#2- I never said the guy should be aborted. He told me I should know when to pull back. I told him I wished his father had known when to pull back. Do you know how abortion works, sir?
#3- I'm too old for a midlife crisis. This is me and always has been me, sir. I HIGHLY HIGHLY advise you to take all the shit you've been taught about caring how others perceive you and flush that shit down the toilet. Because THAT behavior? THAT is what leads to an actual midlife crisis. I've seen it in friends- they wake up somewhere between 40-50 and go, 'Shit! I did everything society said I should do...why am I not happy?!?' And THAT is when the trouble starts.

1. I think the set up and delivery matters. I'd rate that attempt at a 5/10. Liek ur mom lulzzz.
2. I don't know how abortions work, I'm a born again Christian and we don't do abortion, Halloween, or the Rupaul television shows.
3. That's sound advice. I think overall it's your online persona to do what you will with, but at the same time it doesn't make you bulletproof to mockery or commentary on it from other people. I don't really care whether you like Metroid/are good at it or not. Making seventeen videos about it seems petty, but you probably make enough money off of those videos that you're laughing all the way to the bank, so, you know. Good on you, you sly business man.
 

gradient

Resident Cheap Arse
As I said, video #1 was earnest and honest and I still stand by the content (in all the videos). Trust me, even if I had made that one video, it would not have credibility with a lot of you guys. Which is fine. But admitting that the follow ups were still honest but mostly for fun and marketing doesn't discredit the core idea from video #1 (that is repeated over and over in the follow up videos).

As for letting it go, I honestly have no problem having a minority view on a particular aspect of game design. What I struggle to let go of- and what continues to fascinate me- is the Metroid fanbase reaction. I will admit, I will miss examining and fucking around with it cause it's so foreign to me.

I don't think your first video was honest. In that first video we can see you going out of your way to avoid using the basic game controls to free aim, to the point that you're deliberately jumping up and straight shooting at a flying enemy rather than firing up at it - which had you done from below would likely have inadvertently revealed a breakable block as the design intended. You also ignore information that was given *explicitly* just a few minutes prior about shooting blocks when at a dead end, even when the game has led you (as you demonstrated in a subsequent video) to said dead end and left you every opportunity to do as it told you to. As much as you may critisize the Metroid fanbase they at least gave you the benefit of the doubt and let it pass as your being unfathomably bad at playing games - had they been more critical they might have questioned why your play of the game went out of the way to avoid the game's mechanics and ignore explcit instructions. Combine this with your admission that you chase views and ad revenue from the drama and it increasingly paints a picture of someone who is disingenously looking to be contrary and rile up a fanbase in order to draw attention. You say "trust me", but by your own words you admit that you cannot be trusted and your word is as cheap as a few extra views.

You can keep trying to paint yourself as a victim of an irrational and aggressive fanbase, but the demonstrable fact is that those who have critisized you have gone out of their way to rationally demonstrate their point and counter your own, whereas you have avoided addressing said counter-points and tried to dismiss any view contrary to your own as irrelevant due to your "professional" experience and standing... neither of which holds any value when by your own admission it plays second fiddle to even a brief moment internet attention and slightly boosted ad income.
 

Lethal01

Member
As I said, video #1 was earnest and honest and I still stand by the content (in all the videos). Trust me, even if I had made that one video, it would not have credibility with a lot of you guys. Which is fine. But admitting that the follow ups were still honest but mostly for fun and marketing doesn't discredit the core idea from video #1 (that is repeated over and over in the follow up videos).

As for letting it go, I honestly have no problem having a minority view on a particular aspect of game design. What I struggle to let go of- and what continues to fascinate me- is the Metroid fanbase reaction. I will admit, I will miss examining and fucking around with it cause it's so foreign to me.

It's not a mystery, You're a former game dev who happened to play the game worse than an 8-year-old and then criticize what most see as an extremely simple and heavily choreographed challenge then proceeded to say that anyone who disagrees with you about it being badly designed is a moron. They see it as the equivalent of you calling Mario shit because you forget that you go higher if you hold the jump button down.

There is nothing strange or new about people who care about a piece of media being bothered when they are being bothered when they get insulted for thinking it's good based on criticism they find idiotic.

If you wanna say you're just messing around then just assume that unless people are threatening your family they are just messing around too.

Or just relax and let the Alzheimers sink in so you guys can both forget all about each other.
 
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davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
It's not a mystery, You're a former game dev who happened to play the game worse than an 8-year-old and then criticize what most see as an extremely simple and heavily choreographed challenge then proceeded to say that anyone who disagrees with you about it being badly designed is a moron. They see it as the equivalent of you calling Mario shit because you forget that you go higher if you hold the jump button down.

There is nothing strange or new about people who care about a piece of media being bothered when they are being bothered when they get insulted for thinking it's good based on criticism they find idiotic.

If you wanna say you're just messing around then just assume that unless people are threatening your family they are just messing around too.

Or just relax and let the Alzheimers sink in so you guys can both forget all about each other

There is nothing strange or new about people who care about a piece of media being bothered when they are being bothered when they get insulted for thinking it's good based on criticism they find idiotic.

My 'insult' was the equivalent of telling a fan of Football Team A, 'Dude- your team is shit, they suck, and you're an idiot for thinking they are good!'...it's not a genuine INSULT to a human being. I rarely do that outside of trash talking. If you took the insult as serious then I do feel bad for that because that was not my intention. BUT I have to assume most people knew I was taking the piss. Which is why 90% of the 'taking the piss' back at me doesn't bother me at all. It's the ones that are clearly upset about it that fascinate/amuse/worry me.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
I don't think your first video was honest. In that first video we can see you going out of your way to avoid using the basic game controls to free aim, to the point that you're deliberately jumping up and straight shooting at a flying enemy rather than firing up at it - which had you done from below would likely have inadvertently revealed a breakable block as the design intended. You also ignore information that was given *explicitly* just a few minutes prior about shooting blocks when at a dead end, even when the game has led you (as you demonstrated in a subsequent video) to said dead end and left you every opportunity to do as it told you to. As much as you may critisize the Metroid fanbase they at least gave you the benefit of the doubt and let it pass as your being unfathomably bad at playing games - had they been more critical they might have questioned why your play of the game went out of the way to avoid the game's mechanics and ignore explcit instructions. Combine this with your admission that you chase views and ad revenue from the drama and it increasingly paints a picture of someone who is disingenously looking to be contrary and rile up a fanbase in order to draw attention. You say "trust me", but by your own words you admit that you cannot be trusted and your word is as cheap as a few extra views.

You can keep trying to paint yourself as a victim of an irrational and aggressive fanbase, but the demonstrable fact is that those who have critisized you have gone out of their way to rationally demonstrate their point and counter your own, whereas you have avoided addressing said counter-points and tried to dismiss any view contrary to your own as irrelevant due to your "professional" experience and standing... neither of which holds any value when by your own admission it plays second fiddle to even a brief moment internet attention and slightly boosted ad income.
You can keep trying to paint yourself as a victim of an irrational and aggressive fanbase, but the demonstrable fact is that those who have critisized you have gone out of their way to rationally demonstrate their point and counter your own, whereas you have avoided addressing said counter-points and tried to dismiss any view contrary to your own as irrelevant due to your "professional" experience and standing... neither of which holds any value when by your own admission it plays second fiddle to even a brief moment internet attention and slightly boosted ad income.
I have answered pretty much every response and even admitted to being wrong about one of my claims (the number of rooms you could go back to). If you want to suggest that me not agreeing with the counter points as me 'avoiding addressing said counter-points', you can do that. But it would not be honest.
 

tommib

Member
We should’ve known better, GAF, than to fall into the hands of a troll video thumbnail. We’ve learned a valuable lesson: Dread’s design is immaculate and doesn’t need to be dragged into YouTube comments for engagement.
 

Spukc

Gold Member
Can’t believe this thread is still up 😬

is the nintendo fans?
you should shit on sonic adventure.
Sonic fans are a different breed.

I need a heads up when it happens!
Going to buy a vast amount of popcorn.
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
Looking a the video, for those criticizing Jaffe, is the complaint that he wasn't able to figure out that with enemies in the area above he should have known he was able to shoot the ceiling? Why wouldn't he assume that it wasn't something else he was missing?
 
you should shit on sonic adventure.
Sonic fans are a different breed.
Wouldn't have worked as well. Sonic fans are heavily divided on what a good Sonic game even is. There's no one common gameplay element universal to every Sonic game that Jaffe can complain about being "too hard" or "too confusing" that would rile the fanbase up.
 

Ailynn

Faith - Hope - Love
Make Up Love GIF by Bounce


Really guys, animosity and trolling only feeds more animosity and trolling. It's often a vicious cycle and never worth the time or mental strain that is so often accompanied with it.


I'm a huge Metroid fan since the original NES game back when I was 11 years old, and I absolutely LOVED Metroid Dread. Heck, I even bought three copies of it (digital plus the Special Edition for myself, and another physical copy for my friend). It's an amazing love-letter to the hard core fans of the series, and awesome enough that it has made many new Metroid fans who've never even played the games before. (Like Maximilian Dood, who is now a self-described 'Metroid weeb.') :)

I love Metroid. It's my favorite game series, and Samus is my favorite game character.


At the same time, I know not everyone is going to love everything I love. Some people may downright hate something I cherish deeply....and really, that should be okay.

I certainly have no love for football or sports in general, but I understand people have a passion for things I don't understand or care for...and that should be okay as well.


Life can be difficult as it is, and there are more important things to worry about. Live and let live. Love where you can, and be happy for others when they find joy in the little things. ❤️


Much love, davidjaffe davidjaffe :)
- A Metroid fan
 
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godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
You know, I had a problem with the first block at the same exact spot as Jaffe, but beyond that single instance, I didn’t have another problem at all. I have been able to find all hidden blocks on my own and later in the game a tool is given to you to highlight the secret blocks.

The thread title is inflammatory though. I believe the conversation has moved on beyond Jaffe into the difficulty/mechanics of Metroid, however the thread title steers the discussion into the lowest common denominator.
 
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gradient

Resident Cheap Arse
I have answered pretty much every response and even admitted to being wrong about one of my claims (the number of rooms you could go back to). If you want to suggest that me not agreeing with the counter points as me 'avoiding addressing said counter-points', you can do that. But it would not be honest.

No, you haven't. For example, in this very response you evaded the point of your making a clear effort to avoid use of the base game controls and mechanics in order to avoid shooting that ceiling segment.


There is an enemy crawling across the ceiling segment. Shooting that enemy from ANY platformed position will result in shots striking the ceiling and as the above video shows everyone manages just that. However you go out of your way to avoid shooting up at that enemy. Even going so far as to climb up to the topmost platform where there is the least jum space in order to jump and shoot horizontally across, colliding with the ceiling rather than simply tilting the stick. You make effort to avoid using the base controls or even to tilt the stick in order to avoid shooting anywhere near that ceiling segment. not only is that counter-intuitive, it goes against the basic notion of shooting *UP* at something that is located *UP*. This in conjunction with actively avoiding the advice and in-game demonstration the game explicitly talked you through just minutes earlier (where not only did it tell you to shoot a dead end, you had to actually do it in order to progress) shows a deliberate effort fabricate an issue and invite this drama.

We see this with review sites all the time. Desperate to garner more views and clicks they underscore a game or find petty reasons to mark it down so as to get noticed and draw the ire (and thus the clicks) of the game or platform's fanbase. It's a cheap trick to increase page impressions, visitors and video views by stirring the pot and inviting outrage and conflict in the hope that some of those new visitors might just subscribe to keep tabs for more drama. And it would be par for the course were we talking about another publication doing this, but you are supposed to be a professional from the industry and had the gall to cite your professional credentials and the fact you teach game design as a defense and means of deflecting critisism. That you admit you sell these things so cheaply for attention and ad revenue only further supports the conclusion that you were indeed fishing for drama and fabricating an issue to draw views and attention.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
No, you haven't. For example, in this very response you evaded the point of your making a clear effort to avoid use of the base game controls and mechanics in order to avoid shooting that ceiling segment.


There is an enemy crawling across the ceiling segment. Shooting that enemy from ANY platformed position will result in shots striking the ceiling and as the above video shows everyone manages just that. However you go out of your way to avoid shooting up at that enemy. Even going so far as to climb up to the topmost platform where there is the least jum space in order to jump and shoot horizontally across, colliding with the ceiling rather than simply tilting the stick. You make effort to avoid using the base controls or even to tilt the stick in order to avoid shooting anywhere near that ceiling segment. not only is that counter-intuitive, it goes against the basic notion of shooting *UP* at something that is located *UP*. This in conjunction with actively avoiding the advice and in-game demonstration the game explicitly talked you through just minutes earlier (where not only did it tell you to shoot a dead end, you had to actually do it in order to progress) shows a deliberate effort fabricate an issue and invite this drama.

We see this with review sites all the time. Desperate to garner more views and clicks they underscore a game or find petty reasons to mark it down so as to get noticed and draw the ire (and thus the clicks) of the game or platform's fanbase. It's a cheap trick to increase page impressions, visitors and video views by stirring the pot and inviting outrage and conflict in the hope that some of those new visitors might just subscribe to keep tabs for more drama. And it would be par for the course were we talking about another publication doing this, but you are supposed to be a professional from the industry and had the gall to cite your professional credentials and the fact you teach game design as a defense and means of deflecting critisism. That you admit you sell these things so cheaply for attention and ad revenue only further supports the conclusion that you were indeed fishing for drama and fabricating an issue to draw views and attention.
Your mind is made up, pal. I can't help you.

All those things in the video and your paragraph I have refuted. Just because you don't agree with my refutation doesn't mean I have not addressed the comments.

As for clicks and shit, I've also been clear ad nauseum on that (video #1 was 100% sincere, the rest were honest but pushed for entertainment, trolling, and views).

But to this point, as an aside, I'm so tired of some people on the net shitting on 'click bait' and drama. As long as the content is honest, part of the job is to spruce it up. Do you go to a movie and just watch actors reading a script around a table? Do you watch a tv show cause the creator appears in front of a blank wall and explains what the movie will be? It's called marketing and showmanship. I appreciate you may not like it (I doubt that given you are here in a 50% bitch session thread, throwing your hat in the ring) but stop acting like the vast majority of people would love it if all thumbnails and videos looked like this:





Trust me, it's been tried. No one wants to watch it, at least when it's packaged like that.

Embrace the fact that- metaphorically speaking when it comes to intellectual discourse- the vast majority of us are like dogs who need the meds wrapped in a treat before they will eat it.
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
Your mind is made up, pal. I can't help you.

All those things in the video and your paragraph I have refuted. Just because you don't agree with my refutation doesn't mean I have not addressed the comments.

As for clicks and shit, I've also been clear ad nauseum on that (video #1 was 100% sincere, the rest were honest but pushed for entertainment, trolling, and views).

But to this point, as an aside, I'm so tired of some people on the net shitting on 'click bait' and drama. As long as the content is honest, part of the job is to spruce it up. Do you go to a movie and just watch actors reading a script around a table? Do you watch a tv show cause the creator appears in front of a blank wall and explains what the movie will be? It's called marketing and showmanship. I appreciate you may not like it (I doubt that given you are here in a 50% bitch session thread, throwing your hat in the ring) but stop acting like the vast majority of people would love it if all thumbnails and videos looked like this:





Trust me, it's been tried. No one wants to watch it, at least when it's packaged like that.

Embrace the fact that- metaphorically speaking when it comes to intellectual discourse- the vast majority of us are like dogs who need the meds wrapped in a treat before they will eat it.
Hm. Regarding the point about players bailing from frustration before they understand the game...

As a developer do you not, at some point, need to fully commit to certain choices? Is it not easier to commit to a certain choice if it is all tried and tested to some extent?

Taking any game in context these days players generally have access to the Internet and to gaming communities.

So if 99% of players walk into the room, shoot the enemies on or near the ceiling and find the breakable blocks then anyone who misses it can still find out from the Internet or the community where they are going wrong.

I guess the questions I would end up wanting to ask are how much hand holding is too much and how much mystery is too much?

I always thought with all these meteoidvanias that one of the key things is that the game forces you to think and to explore and actually to get lost for a while.

When a player comes along and says "well I think thats stupid and don't want to do it" then the relationship between the game creator and the player is completely broken.

I would say its not really possible to fix that.

OK so I want to play God of War but I hate violence and intense scenes and I bloody well despise Quick Time Events. Well the game is already closed off to me then, isn't it?

Nobody is seriously going to make the point that this commitment to violence and action and QTEs is alienating potential players even though it actually is. At least with Metroid Dread I can ask people how to get past that bit.

Hell the M for Mature rating on the box locks some players out at the point of sale.

Committing to certain design choices will always alienate some players. Whether that's in gameplay or in story or in genre.

Acting like it's some egregious or stupid mistake is a bit strange since almost every game has its own weird quirks and odd decisions.

How did the argument even get this far? You were literally streaming this to an audience anyway so isn't it just "oh there's only 4 rooms I can go to so let's explore and find the secret... shoot these enemies up he- oh there's the exit... great?"

How does this end in you ranting about "crap, bush league" design or whatever when the majority of people navigated that area just fine? Your reaction is over the top, which is what ultimately causes the whole drama because people feel the need to stick up for the developers when in this case its this specific player who isn't really getting it. Most probably passed through this area without a thought so the design isn't that bad really.
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
As for letting it go, I honestly have no problem having a minority view on a particular aspect of game design. What I struggle to let go of- and what continues to fascinate me- is the Metroid fanbase reaction. I will admit, I will miss examining and fucking around with it cause it's so foreign to me.
The fanbase reaction is easy to understand. They like these games and your criticism is immediate and thoughtless and over the top.

You immediately go from 0 to 60 and before you know it youve said its Bush league and its crap and its stupid and it should never be allowed to pass.

The developers I guess aren't there to respond and also your role as a developer is a selling point of your brand. So people are stepping in to say "hold up" and to try to explain.

Of course your abrasive style gets people riled up so they roll their sleeves up and play rough too.

It's like you walk into a bar where everyone is watching and enjoying a football game and loudly declare "why not give them all a ball so they won't have to fight over this one, its just stupid" and when someone tells you to shut the fuck up you keep on trying to make your point. As if the people are going to somehow be like "yeah this thing I am passionate about is stupid".

Yeah I just can't figure out why that would annoy a fanbase.
 
The fanbase reaction is easy to understand. They like these games and your criticism is immediate and thoughtless and over the top.
And Jaffe is faking the shock of it, too. We all remember the fanbase reaction from Gerstmann's 8.8 Zelda: Twilight Princess review, and ever since then it's common knowledge that one of the easiest ways for a "game journalist" or a YouTuber to grab easy attention is to diss a newly-released Nintendo game and summon a swarm of kids to leave diss tracks, rebuttals and negative comments on your channel. And note the phrasing, "kids". Jaffe knows he is manipulating children for YouTube views. In light of that, his attitude towards the "fanbase reaction" comes off as similar to an abusive dad screaming "Why did you make me hit you?" - and quite frankly, I find it to be disgusting.
 
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davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
My direct response to the last 4-5 comments. Making a video for me is a lot faster/easier than trying to type it all out.

It's not monetized, it's not on my channel. It's unlisted. I made it just for this post so don't accuse me of trying to get clicks off this topic with this. It is a genuine response to some of y'all...


 
My direct response to the last 4-5 comments. Making a video for me is a lot faster/easier than trying to type it all out.

It's not monetized, it's not on my channel. It's unlisted. I made it just for this post so don't accuse me of trying to get clicks off this topic with this. It is a genuine response to some of y'all...
I double-checked; that does not look like it's uploaded on an alt.

Nah, that's still content on your channel, regardless of if it's unlisted or not. (YouTube Analytics certainly wouldn't mind if it got a high view count in spite of such. Neither would ToS or Copyright takedowns care, would they unfortunately happen.)
Also, it being unlisted doesn't mean much when you're posting it on a forum with such notoriety and audience as NeoGAF.

It's too late to try to put this back in Pandora's Box now.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
I double-checked; that does not look like it's uploaded on an alt.

Nah, that's still content on your channel, regardless of if it's unlisted or not. (YouTube Analytics certainly wouldn't mind if it got a high view count in spite of such. Neither would ToS or Copyright takedowns care, would they unfortunately happen.)
Also, it being unlisted doesn't mean much when you're posting it on a forum with such notoriety and audience as NeoGAF.

It's too late to try to put this back in Pandora's Box now.
Oh dude- shut the fuck up. At this point the only thing that can't be put back in Pandora's Box is my assumption that you want to discuss things in good faith.

ps. I don't even know what 'uploaded on an alt' means.
 

Boglin

Member
My direct response to the last 4-5 comments. Making a video for me is a lot faster/easier than trying to type it all out.

It's not monetized, it's not on my channel. It's unlisted. I made it just for this post so don't accuse me of trying to get clicks off this topic with this. It is a genuine response to some of y'all...


A lot of people have ragged on you for dragging this out but I appreciate your willingness to address people who are disagreeing with you. Usually this type of thing has no real discourse and I enjoy debate, just as you do.

My impression of what you're saying has changed as you've clarified your stance further and further to the point where I generally agree with your observations. If you're coming into this series as a new player then I can see why you could have frustrations. Metroid games have been built around the idea of NOT being intuitive with the path you're supposed to take which is fairly unique, and pretty counter to typical game design.

Since the original video that kicked all of this off, you've gone on to say that you're fine that there are people who enjoy this type of game and there is a place for it in the market. To me, this is the opposite of what my initial impression was when you said people are morons if they're okay with it. I take it now that it's just a facet of your personality to be a bit hyperbolic with your criticisms, which is something that is perfectly fine. What I thought I was hearing was an industry veteran with a microphone advocating for the discontinuation of one of my favorite aspects about the series and I hated it. But now I don't think that was your intention.

I still disagree that this game is poorly designed as being a standalone title for introducing new players and setting their expectations but that really is more subjective and your opinion carries as much weight as anyone else's. I will admit that you spending $60 dollars on it and not realizing what you're in for could very well be the fault of a poorly designed marketing campaign so it's not 100% on you.

If you're fine with this type of game existing and other people enjoying it but it's just not your cup of tea or you think it failed to put you in the correct mindset, then I have absolutely no beef with you.
 

Spukc

Gold Member
You don’t like gun star heroes?

not liking dread is ok.
But there are limits 😐

how does one hate a treasure game?
it pushed the genesis so far.
almost felt like a next gen game
 

bender

Candy Corn Aficionado
My direct response to the last 4-5 comments. Making a video for me is a lot faster/easier than trying to type it all out.

It's not monetized, it's not on my channel. It's unlisted. I made it just for this post so don't accuse me of trying to get clicks off this topic with this. It is a genuine response to some of y'all...



Is that sock used to cleanup any other messes at the old work desk?

p.s. Get a Pro Controller. The Joy Cons are a miserable experience.
 
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Oh dude- shut the fuck up. At this point the only thing that can't be put back in Pandora's Box is my assumption that you want to discuss things in good faith.

ps. I don't even know what 'uploaded on an alt' means.
Oh, so now you wanna dunk on fellow YouTubers as well as fellow game developers, huh?

I've had a YouTube Channel long enough to know when people who run channels are subtly manipulating audiences. I'm calling this as I see it. You're trying to grift for views while pretending you're not trying to grift for views. This is a trick as old as YouTube itself. And your reaction to me pointing out the obvious is to cuss me out? Aren't you supposed to be a professional? And then you wonder why the kids talk to you the way they do? It's literally your own language being thrown back at you.

Also, "good faith" was lost the moment you openly admitted to grifting for an audience. How do you expect anyone to take anything you say at face value after that? As far as I know or care, none of your opinions are even real, and are just attempts to rile people up. Which is funny, because I managed to rile you up just by pointing out how you're continuing to do so even as you deny it.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
My direct response to the last 4-5 comments. Making a video for me is a lot faster/easier than trying to type it all out.

It's not monetized, it's not on my channel. It's unlisted. I made it just for this post so don't accuse me of trying to get clicks off this topic with this. It is a genuine response to some of y'all...



Good response. My mother and I have changed our allegiances.
 
You have to do this on YouTube to grow your channel, everyone else does, it's how social media works.

I think that most of Jaffe's content is great, but of course, he doesn't hesitate to play "the violin", go on angry rants and make clickbait videos once in a while.
You don't "have to" chase money on YouTube if you don't want. They'll monetize your channel anyway, if they want to, it's in their TOS.
 
I had already said what I wanted to say about Metroid. After that it's just been fun marketing and money making.
When you just openly admit to grifting your audience, whilst simultaneously acting like you have some warped moral high ground to stand on. At least you've confirmed what I knew about your channel years ago.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
There is an enemy crawling across the ceiling segment. Shooting that enemy from ANY platformed position will result in shots striking the ceiling and as the above video shows everyone manages just that. However you go out of your way to avoid shooting up at that enemy. Even going so far as to climb up to the topmost platform where there is the least jum space in order to jump and shoot horizontally across, colliding with the ceiling rather than simply tilting the stick. You make effort to avoid using the base controls or even to tilt the stick in order to avoid shooting anywhere near that ceiling segment. not only is that counter-intuitive, it goes against the basic notion of shooting *UP* at something that is located *UP*. This in conjunction with actively avoiding the advice and in-game demonstration the game explicitly talked you through just minutes earlier (where not only did it tell you to shoot a dead end, you had to actually do it in order to progress) shows a deliberate effort fabricate an issue and invite this drama.
You can't determine that was intentional. It's much more reasonable to assume that Jaffe is so old school that he's used to Megaman shooting, which is what it looked like in his first video. He simply wasn't using the tools given to him by the game, which would have made the breadcrumbs that much easier to follow. It was inexperience, and a skill gap, not an intentional charade.
 

Bragr

Member
You don't "have to" chase money on YouTube if you don't want. They'll monetize your channel anyway, if they want to, it's in their TOS.
Sure, but it's a culture around it, you know, how you make your thumbnail, how you speak, what you talk about, it has to be aimed at certain things. It's like Twitter, it develops a culture around sensationalizing or sarcasm, because it fits the short format the best, on YouTube, it helps to be clickbaity to get the algorithm to work for you.
 
Sure, but it's a culture around it, you know, how you make your thumbnail, how you speak, what you talk about, it has to be aimed at certain things. It's like Twitter, it develops a culture around sensationalizing or sarcasm, because it fits the short format the best, on YouTube, it helps to be clickbaity to get the algorithm to work for you.
I think that people yell "clickbait" far too easily. The term means that you're lying about something, or misrepresenting what the video is truly about in the title/ thumbnail. I've been accused of clickbait before, for giving a completely honest review that some people just disagree with. I wish people could recognize that there's different opinions in the world besides their own.
The problem is that there is so many actual clickbaiters out there, that people assume that EVERY channel is "only in it for the clicks". We're not all Jaffe
 

Azurro

Member
I 100% believe what I'm saying and I've defended it time and again and the people who try to offer explanations for why I am wrong don't offer any compelling logic as to why.

And yes, at THIS point, sure: doing it for clicks and for fun. I said what I needed to say in the FIRST video. But I won't lie: of course it's fun to give back some of the trolling and pushback I'm getting. What? I'm just supposed to take it? I don't think so :).

Mr. Jaffe, you really need to be right, don't you? You seem to be one of those people that really have that need, you can't ever be wrong. Otherwise this rather sad debate wouldn't exist.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
A quite casual game plqyer at work saw me playing this game and listened to my praise for it. They decided to buy it.

They read that tutorial tip and this weekend they messaged me to say they had finally completed the game. They thought it was absolutely brilliant, admitted that some bosses took North of 40 attempts each but they are now a firm metroid fan after never playing another game in the series.

Maybe they were just in tune with the game after a short period of time or lucky. I dunno. They far from 100 percented it, but they completed it and loved it.

It's the only data pool of a new player that I have but overall they were not stuck with the shoot walls design. They didbt even bring it up once, I had to ask them and they told me after they had read that tutorial that they just tried to shoot some walls if they got a little lost.

I dunno.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
You can't determine that was intentional. It's much more reasonable to assume that Jaffe is so old school that he's used to Megaman shooting, which is what it looked like in his first video. He simply wasn't using the tools given to him by the game, which would have made the breadcrumbs that much easier to follow. It was inexperience, and a skill gap, not an intentional charade.
Metroid is older and games in general were much more diffuse back in the days, so this isn’t about being old school but as you say it’s inexperience. I’m guessing he was mostly into action games in the 80s, Metroid is more adventuring and exploration, the action is manily there to add something to do while figuring out what to do next.

Getting stuck and not knowing what to do was normal in the 80s adventuring games and definitely not just in Metroid games. You often had to try to do whatever there was to try even if it made no sense. There was even telephone numbers you could call to get hints when you were stuck. Today we have internet.

Back then it could be really vague stuff like just walking to the edge of the screen where it looks like there is a wall but once you get close to the wall the screen suddenly scrolls and show you a new path, super common in games like Fist 2 on C64.

There was also common that you should jump into a random hole that in any other scenario would’ve insta-killed you. Used for secrets in games like Turrican, you either die or get an extra life, but jumping into a seemingly certain death was used for main path many times in games like Last Ninja 2.

In some games you had to interact with something you couldn’t interact with before, could be a pixel in size, or give someone a random thing nobody would ever use for that purpose, in Sierra and Lucas Arts games for example. Etc.

Jaffe is perfectly right here that this is archaic game design. I wouldn’t call it shit though. But I grew up with it so for me it’s no problem, and I love Metroid Dread for not dumbing it down, it’s a game for the core fans and I think it’s perfectly okay if not all games are Your first video game™ , it’s about time the fans got something they throughly enjoy.

And in the new video Jaffe says he’s like an inexperienced 5yo in the Metroid genre. Can’t be angry at someone simply for lacking experience. So I’m fine with his explanation now.

That said, there are clearly smoother ways for an inexperienced individual to tackle something they don’t quite understand than to scream to those who do understand that it’s shit.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Metroid is older and games in general were much more diffuse back in the days, so this isn’t about being old school but as you say it’s inexperience. I’m guessing he was mostly into action games in the 80s, Metroid is more adventuring and exploration, the action is manily there to add something to do while figuring out what to do next.
Old school in terms of shooting mechanics. Diagonal shooting wasn't implemented until Super Metroid, and wasn't really a big part of early side scrolling adventure shooters in general.
 
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