Support NeoGAF

[GodsTyro]

@10pm EST on NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, etc.

 

[fennec fox]

10pm? What, are they having strippers?

NPR has live coverage at 8pm est.

 

[Incognito]

yea, it's already on the cable news channels. bill, hillary, and al later tonight!

 

[Diablos]

Haha, what a lineup.

 

[Triumph]

I've heard all the arguments. "This isn't the year; too much is at
stake." Yes, this is precisely correct. Too much is at stake for
liberals and progressives to continue to vote for the do nothing
Democrats simply because they're "not the Republicans." Well, I'm not
Satan, should I get a vote for deity? Hot damn! Start sending all
your prayers and tithes my way now, boys. The Democrats have
consistently and willfully abandoned the liberal/progressive base
because to their thinking, where else do we have to turn?

I'll tell you- anywhere. Vote for Nader. Vote for Cobb. Hell, vote
for those wacky ass Libertarians. Don't waste your vote on a major
party candidate this year. No matter who is elected, one thing will
remain certain for the next four years: we, the People, will continue
to lose so long as we allow the political duopoly that is owned lock,
stock and barrel by Corporate America to dominate politics.

Not convinced? Do me a favor: read the following true statements
about Kerry/Edwards. Ask yourself, is this what I want my vote to
stand for? Is this the President that you want to elect? I don't
care that he's "not Bush" or that he "can beat Bush". His values are
in the wrong place. Just read this:

1. Kerry-Edwards supports the war in Iraq. The only promise that
John Kerry makes regarding Iraq is that he will "manage" the war
better than Bush. He voted for the war and will send more troops to
Iraq if needed. He recently told The Wall Street Journal that he would
keep the troops in Iraq longer than George Bush.

2. Unlike Senator Feingold, Kerry-Edwards undermines the Constitution
and civil liberties in the U.S. They voted for the Patriot Act – an
overly aggressive assault on our Constitution. John Kerry, a former
federal prosecutor, has not often distinguished himself as a strong
friend of civil liberties. Kerry supported the Clinton crime bills,
including the expansion of the federal death penalty in 1996
legislation.

3. John Kerry represents corporations and the wealthy, not the working
majority. When John Kerry met with major donors he promised them he
was not a redistributionist Democrat – despite massive corporate
welfare programs, and the vast rich-poor divide that exists in the
U.S. today. The Washington Post reports that has received more money
from corporations and their lobbyists than any other senator. For
example, the Center for Responsive Politics reports that during this
election cycle, Kerry took in $3,321,382 from the health care
industry. Also, Kerry has received $7,568,630 from the finance,
insurance and real estate industries. His anemic plan for the working
poor is to raise the minimum wage to a mere $7 per hour by 2007 – when
over $8 would bring the purchasing power up to that of 1968! He's
called for even more corporate tax cuts as a prime part of his jobs
program, despite record corporate profits and shrinking corporate
responsibility for carrying their fair share of the tax burden.

4. Kerry-Edwards does not promise health care for all. Forty-five
million Americans don't have health insurance and more and more can't
afford to keep it. The U.S. spends more on health care per capita than
any other country – 25% of our expenditures go to duplicative overhead
caused by health insurance-based health care. John Kerry does not
replace this system with a universal health care program; he builds on
this faulty system by paying the catastrophic care health insurance
costs of businesses – but tens of millions will remain without health
care under his plan.

5. Kerry-Edwards supports the drug war. John Kerry was the lead
sponsor of Plan Colombia, the devastating militaristic approach to
addiction. The plan sprays herbicides in the rain forests of Colombia,
poisons the land of peasants, uses the military against peasant
farmers and spreads coca cultivation in the region. Domestically,
Kerry has supported crime bills that have resulted in the United
States becoming the leader in incarceration in the world.

6. John Kerry continues to support WTO and NAFTA. These trade
agreements that are spurring the sending of jobs overseas to Communist
China, India and other poor countries undermine the sovereignty of
nations by putting profit of corporations before laws enacted by
nations. As a result, environmental, labor, and consumer protection
laws are undermined by trade agreements. But Kerry is not calling for
withdrawal from and renegotiation of these agreements.

7. John Kerry supports testing instead of teaching and does nothing to
make college more affordable. Kerry supported George Bush's "No Child
Left Behind" law, that emphasizes high stakes, high frequency,
multiple choice standardized formal tests and, through their narrow
domination, undermines teaching. He initially supported subsidizing
college education but has now backed away from that promise.

8. The Democratic Party is undermining U.S. Democracy with John
Kerry's quiet blessing. The Nader/Camejo Campaign is facing an
unprecedented attack to obstruct its ballot access in numerous states
with dirty tricks. Through harassment of petitioners, efforts to spoil
ballot access conventions, use of state workers to challenge our
signatures and employing corporate law firms to challenge our ballot
access the Democratic Party is weakening the vibrancy of our democracy
and trying to limit the choices of voters--with the full approval of
the Democratic National Committee. The Democrats are doing nothing to
energize our democracy by making it easier for a diversity of
candidates to run or making sure votes are counted in ways that ensure
a majority president like Instant Run-off Voting.

9. John Kerry does not think for himself on the Israeli-Palestinian
question. The Israeli government violates the human rights of innocent
Palestinian men, women, and children every day as documented by
Israeli and international human rights organizations. John Kerry's
response is to support the Israeli military government, even though
Colin Powell has stated repeatedly there is no military solution to
this conflict. Kerry does not highlight the peace movements in Israel
and Palestine even though they have been communicating with one
another about accords that would solve this conflict.

10. Kerry-Edwards will not challenge the military industrial complex,
about which President Eisenhower cautioned the American people in his
farewell address. He supports the bloated and redundant military
budget that now exhausts one-half of all the operating expenditures of
the federal government. Kerry-Edwards is as distant as can be from
Dennis Kucinich's most cherished proposal, that he campaigned for
around the country: the establishment of a Department of Peace so that
our government can wage peace as it now does to prepare for war.

How long, O Lord, how long must we put up with these worthless,
spineless "public servants" claiming to serve "our interests"? None
of those are my interests. They are diametrically opposed to my
interests. So how the hell can some of you people tell me with a
straight face that Kerry is our "best choice"?

I refuse to believe that we must compromise our political beliefs and
principles in order to have progress in this nation. The Left has
been doing that for decades now, and where has it gotten us? America
is shittier than ever. The political climate of our country is
dominated by a bunch of vicious, half-bright Neo-Conservative
Chickenhawks, who are to pussy to pick up a gun and fight for anything
but have no qualms about sending us to die for their interests. But I
don't blame them. Shit, they're just doing what comes NATURALLY to
them. You don't blame a monkey for flinging shit, and you don't blame
a Republican for lieing, cheating, stealing and lining their pockets
with gold when they rule. You should know better by now.

So who to blame? The Democrats. They let it happen. If they were
any kind of "opposition" party at all, half this shit would have never
come to pass. Instead they forge compromise after compromise, selling
out Liberal issues one after another: letting NAFTA pass, selling out
Gay marriage, not lifting a finger when Ashcroft was nominated to be
the Head Pig of the Country. Shit, Antonin Scalia was confirmed 98-0!
Guess who voted for him- John Kerry!

This level of incompetence can not be looked over. These idiots have
had their opportunity, first to advance a liberal agenda in Clinton's
first two years when they controlled the Senate, House and White
House, and then to try and fight the Conservative Scourge that has
come to dominate these barely United States of America in this dark,
hellish year of our Lord, 2004. And they failed miserably at that,
too.

So fuck them. They don't deserve the time of day, much less a vote
from someone who isn't ashamed to be called "Liberal" or
"Progressive". They have sold us down the river in a pitiful attempt
to appeal to the vicious, mean-spirited yahoos that vote for the GOP.
They are traitors and villains, and they will be among the first up
against the wall when the Revolution comes.

Wake the fuck up. John Kerry doesn't give a shit about you, folks.
Vote for him and you're voting for the other side of the coin that
Dubya is on. It's time to shift the paradigm, folks. The time isn't
four or eight years from now- the time is now. Why the fuck don't we
vote for a candidate that embodies and fights for ALL of our beliefs,
whose platform is above reproach?

For fuck's fucking sake, people. Wake up and smell the coffee. The
Democrats are dead. Vote for someone with a pair. Vote for Nader or
Cobb. If you can't make yourself do that, vote for that yuppie
scumbag of a Libertarian, Badnarik. But don't fucking vote for Kerry
and then wonder why the country still sucks in 2008. I'll be the one
telling you, "Told you so, asshole."

-Triumph

 

[Ripclawe]

10pm? What, are they having strippers?

NPR has live coverage at 8pm est.

The major networks have cut back big time on convention coverage claiming there is no news from them.

 

[Triumph]

The major networks have cut back big time on convention coverage claiming there is no news from them.

This is true. They are meaningless dog and pony shows, scripted from beginning to end. Nothing of true substance will be said in Boston over the next three to four days, and even less will be said that matters when it's the GOP's turn to do their little rally in August. But the stupid things will affect the polls, and affect the way people think. Why? The masses are asses, baby.

 

[RedDwarf]

I'm hating the DNC too much to watch any of it. Having to enter through security checkpoints to get into work is annoying. Downtown Boston is shitville this week. It's normally just crapville.

 

[Incognito]

This is true. They are meaningless dog and pony shows, scripted from beginning to end. Nothing of true substance will be said in Boston over the next three to four days, and even less will be said that matters when it's the GOP's turn to do their little rally in August. But the stupid things will affect the polls, and affect the way people think. Why? The masses are asses, baby.

Not really true. The party's strategy and platform will finally be unveiled to voters, and we'll get to hear a lot of great speeches from notable politicians and delegates. I'd hope it would change the viewpoint of voters, as that's the point of having a 4 day convention. This is especially important for the democrats, as a lot of people still don't really know John Kerry and John Edwards and what they're about, and this will be their coming out party. Hopefully, they don't crash and burn...

 

[belgurdo]

In before Rip...shit....The Promised One, then

 

[impirius]

I hate two-party politics with a passion. Ugh.

Too bad the Libertarian Party nominated Badnarik. LP really needs to get some better candidates.

Why can't we just start over with this whole 'government' thing? It was a great idea in the beginning, but we lost the plot along the way. I want a do-over.

 

[Gruco]

I've heard all the arguments. "This isn't the year; too much is at
stake."

I hope that is not your summary of "all the arguments!"

Yes, this is precisely correct. Too much is at stake for
liberals and progressives to continue to vote for the do nothing
Democrats simply because they're "not the Republicans." Well, I'm not
Satan, should I get a vote for deity? Hot damn! Start sending all
your prayers and tithes my way now, boys. The Democrats have
consistently and willfully abandoned the liberal/progressive base
because to their thinking, where else do we have to turn?

Pointing out the self-perpetuating problem this creates. Progressive refuse to vote democrat, democrats refuse to cater to progressives, etc. There's no reason change can't be made by exerting control within the party. DeLay didn't become majority leader because Christian conservatives began voting for the Constitution party.

I'll tell you- anywhere. Vote for Nader. Vote for Cobb. Hell, vote
for those wacky ass Libertarians. Don't waste your vote on a major
party candidate this year. No matter who is elected, one thing will
remain certain for the next four years: we, the People, will continue
to lose so long as we allow the political duopoly that is owned lock,
stock and barrel by Corporate America to dominate politics.

Voting third party, even winning third party, won't overturn the SUN-PAC decision. If corporate dominated politics is your fear, your anger is misdirected.

1. Kerry-Edwards supports the war in Iraq. The only promise that
John Kerry makes regarding Iraq is that he will "manage" the war
better than Bush. He voted for the war and will send more troops to
Iraq if needed. He recently told The Wall Street Journal that he would
keep the troops in Iraq longer than George Bush.

Any viable candidate should be willing to support continued involvement. They were wrong to vote in favor, of course, but any position that advocates creating more of a power vacuum is a problem. It's flat out wrong that the only promise he has made is that he'd "manage" the war, as he's been very transparent about his desire for internationalization, and the behavior of many foreign governments suggest that he could actually pull it off.

2. Unlike Senator Feingold, Kerry-Edwards undermines the Constitution
and civil liberties in the U.S. They voted for the Patriot Act – an
overly aggressive assault on our Constitution. John Kerry, a former
federal prosecutor, has not often distinguished himself as a strong
friend of civil liberties. Kerry supported the Clinton crime bills,
including the expansion of the federal death penalty in 1996
legislation.

Apparently their subsequent criticism of the act following Ashcroft's interpretation and details of civil rights violations is irrelevant?

3. John Kerry represents corporations and the wealthy, not the working
majority. When John Kerry met with major donors he promised them he
was not a redistributionist Democrat – despite massive corporate
welfare programs, and the vast rich-poor divide that exists in the
U.S. today. The Washington Post reports that has received more money
from corporations and their lobbyists than any other senator. For
example, the Center for Responsive Politics reports that during this
election cycle, Kerry took in $3,321,382 from the health care
industry. Also, Kerry has received $7,568,630 from the finance,
insurance and real estate industries.

That is a broad label to apply when basing it on comments and donations rather than actual policy proposals. Everyone represents some interests, and much like Moore's retarded bashing of Bush-Saudi relations, I think this is too circumstancial to care about. Moving on to policy....

His anemic plan for the working
poor is to raise the minimum wage to a mere $7 per hour by 2007 – when
over $8 would bring the purchasing power up to that of 1968!

The Earned Income Tax Credit didn't exist in 1968. I'm not sure about food stamps, but regardless, it's important to consider all the programs that exist to help the working poor, rather than just dpending on one as a panacea. That's almost a two buck per hour increase, which seems pretty substantial.

He's
called for even more corporate tax cuts as a prime part of his jobs
program, despite record corporate profits and shrinking corporate
responsibility for carrying their fair share of the tax burden.

The current system has several deductions and high rates, which is basically the worst of both worlds - creating heavy burdens on small business/entrepenuers and loopholes that allow profitible large corps to have minimal tax burdens. Lowering rates would allow more local, decentralized employment while removing the various deduction possibilities would geerate more revenue from larger corps.

4. Kerry-Edwards does not promise health care for all. Forty-five
million Americans don't have health insurance and more and more can't
afford to keep it. The U.S. spends more on health care per capita than
any other country – 25% of our expenditures go to duplicative overhead
caused by health insurance-based health care. John Kerry does not
replace this system with a universal health care program; he builds on
this faulty system by paying the catastrophic care health insurance
costs of businesses – but tens of millions will remain without health
care under his plan.

I agree that single payer is best. But Kerry's plan was pretty expansive (Krugman was sorta lukewarm on it...I wish that article was still up for free, arg.) This is a great example of the tangible costs that the third party idealism can create. You can argue that we shouldn't "sell out" or "settle," but some of these thing aren't very abstract...

I'm looking at Kerry's web page now, and there's a lot of talk about removing waste, but not much specific. And I don't see anything about the important malpractice insurance/peer professional regulation issue, which is disapointing. So I will concede that my preference for Kerry on this issue is a consequence of relativism and pragmaticism.

5. Kerry-Edwards supports the drug war.

Supply-based solutions to drug problems are stupid, as are most criminal drug laws and mandatory minimums. Third parties are better here. No argument.

6. John Kerry continues to support WTO and NAFTA. These trade
agreements that are spurring the sending of jobs overseas to Communist
China, India and other poor countries undermine the sovereignty of
nations by putting profit of corporations before laws enacted by
nations. As a result, environmental, labor, and consumer protection
laws are undermined by trade agreements. But Kerry is not calling for
withdrawal from and renegotiation of these agreements.

Free trade isn't necessarily an anathema to liberals/progressives. It improves ecomonic efficiency, and the labor demand creates price pressure for wages in developing countries that wouldn't necessarily exist otherwise. I'm basically for it, because I think it improves the economy, and I think mutual dependence creates better foreign relations that protectionism that distinctly shuts developing nations out of our growth. A generation from now, I want to be partners with China and India, not antagonists, and trade is an importance piece of that. The employment problems is a consequence of a lack of quality education to accomodate the economic shifts such integration creates, not a problem of free trade itself.

7. John Kerry supports testing instead of teaching

This is just stupid. By far the most absurd comment yet.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0407.schorr.html

I love the basic idea of Kerry's education plan. More competitive pression and incentives for good teachers!

and does nothing to
make college more affordable.

I've seen tuition tax credits, promies of state aid, and the service/scholarship plan, all of which do. So unless you think he's lying or has reneged on all three....

8. The Democratic Party is undermining U.S. Democracy with John
Kerry's quiet blessing. The Nader/Camejo Campaign is facing an
unprecedented attack to obstruct its ballot access in numerous states
with dirty tricks.

I believe it. Fortunately the republican party is willing to lend a hand, so it balances out!

9. John Kerry does not think for himself on the Israeli-Palestinian
question.

Err...basis? And why do you think "supporting the Iraeli government" equates to "endorsing further millitary action?"

Kerry-Edwards is as distant as can be from
Dennis Kucinich's most cherished proposal, that he campaigned for
around the country: the establishment of a Department of Peace so that
our government can wage peace as it now does to prepare for war.

Did Kucinich actually ever say what his DoP would do, beyond the current State department, btw?

So how the hell can some of you people tell me with a
straight face that Kerry is our "best choice"?

I do not vote for Kerry because he univerally aligns with my interest. But nobody does that. I vote for him because,

A) Nobody is materially closer
B) Pragmaticism matters.
C) Suppoting change withing the structure of the party has proven more effective than external movements. The Howard Dean wing and grassroots groups like moveon are could move the arty in the right directon, rather than just overthrowing it...

So on the whole, I find your argument very unconvincing. Very selective too. I also support Kerry for his ideas on the environment, energy....

 

[ShadowRed]

Just wondering why no sticky for this yet we get one for sport? I hear that there are a few people on this board with very strong political beliefs.

 

[Hitokage]

If we had one it'd have to be tightly moderated.

 

[impirius]

Everyone's watching the WWE Ironman match!

 

[Incognito]

WOW! The Reverend just delivered an awesome speech!!

 

[Incognito]

Here comes Hillary to introduce the best president ever -- Bill Clinton!

"We need to lift the ban on stem cell research."

Hellz yeah!

 

[Phoenix]

I had the misfortune of watching the live feed of the Democratic National Convention which started at 4PM EST. The words 'stab out my eyes' comes to mind. I swear, someone needs to make a public speaking course a requirement for all politicians.

 

[Bruce Vilanch]

Jesus christ... that Asian lady who talked about 9/11... This is all I heard:

http://shadow-corp.com/johncochran/vids.mp3

 

[ChumsGum]

Damn, I don't know what Bill Clinton was selling but I wanna buy it. Dang this country misses that guy.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Damn he just owned both bush and kerry! Can we elect him again?

 

[Hitokage]

Clinton's remarks on being in the top 1% and remark on John Edwards were hillarious.

 

[ChumsGum]

That's what I was thinking too, Clinton just outshined Kerry.

Hilary will be prez (someday) for sure with Bill at her side.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Damn I missed the Clinton speech, they're talking about it now on fox like it was the best speech evar.

 

[way more]

Clinton's speech killed. I reminds me of when Presidential press conferences had some charisma and intelligence.

 

[Incognito]

Damn I missed the Clinton speech, they're talking about it now on fox like it was the best speech evar.

It was amazing.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Damnit, somebody post a torrent if you get it.

 

[Willco]

THIS JUST IN: CLINTON RULES, BUSH SUCKS GO RED SOX!

 

[WasabiKing]

"We need to lift the ban on stem cell research."

Hellz yeah!

No kidding. I'm sorry, but religion is not getting in the way of curing alzheimer's diseason, cystic firbrosis, MS, or any other horrible diseases.

Anyway, my sister, who is the most apathetic voter in the US, just watched the Clinton speech and said that even she wishes he was back in office. I don't think anyone can speak as masterfully as Clinton.

 

[explodet]

Just wondering why no sticky for this yet we get one for sport? I hear that there are a few people on this board with very strong political beliefs.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7621

Sticky, too.

Just sayin'

 

[Incognito]

Damn right, Wasabi.

 

[reggieandTFE]

Tommorrow is the night to watch. Barack Obama is an amazing speaker, and the support in Illinois that a leftist/populist like him has garnered gives me a shred of hope.

 

[Drensch]

Wow. Clinton's puclic speaking abilities are just amazing. I can totally see a young woman ready to go. I was ready to give him a hummer after that. It's a complete and utter contrast with Dumbass.

 

[Phoenix]

Has there ever been an instance where someone unexpected was chosen at a parties national convention?

 

[Ferrio]

Anyone know if his speech is online somewhere?

 

[Saturnman]

It's kind of surprising to see Internet users begging to download a political speech.


P.S. I saw the speech, it was good.

 

[Drey1082]

Speech transcript here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/uselection2004/clintonb_dnc2004.html

 

[sprsk]

i want mp3!

 

[Hitokage]

That transcript is NOT word-for-word.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Hmmm... anyone know where I can watch a video of Clinton's speech? I've heard it was really quite good.

 

[Incognito]

Has there ever been an instance where someone unexpected was chosen at a parties national convention?

Don't believe so. Not since the Republican convention of 1948 and the Democratic convention of 1952 have the conventions determined who would be the party nominee. It's all been party primaries since then...

In 1956, the democratic presidential candidate left the choice of VP to the delegates.

 

[Loki]

Wow. Clinton's puclic speaking abilities are just amazing. I can totally see a young woman ready to go. I was ready to give him a hummer after that. It's a complete and utter contrast with Dumbass.

Dude, you've been on your knees salivating since before primaries-- who are you kidding? There's no restraint in Drensch-land.

 

[Hitokage]

NPR saves the day once again. They're covering the convention and they always have their stuff archived online.

http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_3621001.html?place=home01

 

[sc0la]

EDIT: DOH BEATEN BY HITO

edit 2: lol @ vast right wing conspiracy to lower bill clinton's taxes

 

[sc0la]

For those who want to trim the fat and hear the goods (Clinton's speech) only you can get it at

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3621001

Realplayer required.

 

[ChumsGum]

I honestly pictured women all over the country rubbing thier clitorises as Clinton spoke.

 

[Justin Bailey]

NPR saves the day once again. They're covering the convention and they always have their stuff archived online.

http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_3621001.html?place=home01

That was one hell of a damn speech. Clinton is just in another friggin dimension when it comes to public speaking.

 

[Socreges]

.smil?

 

[Justin Bailey]

.smil?

real player

 

[sc0la]

.smil?

I have no idea. BUt RealOne player played it for me.