Support NeoGAF

[SlimySnake]

Here to defend Control - it does a ton of things Spiderman doesn't (or does them more) - not just physics - dynamic volumetric shadows, particle effects x10, fog, many many more sources of light.


Spiderman is much more a straight rasterisation + ray traced reflections.

I think it's an unfair take

lol. I myself made a similar defense in the last df control thread. It's definitely doing more physics wise but its performance on pc is still trash. The game could've been optimized better.

 

[Evren01]

RTX is a gpu instensed proccess and XsX has a more powerfull gpu. PS5 may take advantage of customised SSD - Chip solution in terms of transferring high resolution assets. Both consoles have their own nice customised hardware solutions.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

Sure, a game with a PS3 renderer and better assets... sure buddy.

Well you can exaggerate but it's kindof true - deferred renderers were commonly used during 360/PS3 gen, and the game has much better assets. The new game has some particle efffects that I don't remember from before, but maybe they're just better than before.

So yeah " a game with a PS3 renderer and better assets.", seems right.

[they claim 'real time global illumination system" but that's seems to be just like probes ]

I haven't got time to watch an hour long video on a game I didn't particularly like when it first came out, so maybe you could summarise in your response instead of just leaving a mocking reply next time.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Whenever someone starts a new comparison thread they should just put that Jurassic Park GIF in their OP since someone is gonna use it on the first page if you don't, no matter what.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

While I was on YouTube reading through some comment on another video.
This video to be exact:

Dude, please don't post MBG vids. He is a certified astroturfer. Just a PS5 fan account.

edit

oops, sorry for the double post

 

[ethomaz]

I won’t too far to say what he is trying to say but the DF obvious shows there is some bottleneck with Series X.

 

[Alebrije]

Whenever someone starts a new comparison thread they should just put that Jurassic Park GIF in their OP since someone is gonna use it on the first page if you don't, no matter what.

Plus the "another one" gif

 

[Neo_game]

Im a Control fanboy.
I dont deny it and never will.
Im not even ashamed if im called a Fanboy when it comes to Control.

Its odd the original thread had a few posts but this thread has a ton of posts mainly denying or downplaying the results.
If people dont care about the game or its performance(the og thread is evidence of that) why would they be posting to hell and back in this thread.
The only difference is the original thread had little to no substantial differences between platforms and this thread has a near identical to on paper advantage towards the Series X.

Yet im the one spewing nonsensical fanboyisms?

May be that is what they wanted as well. If both console are having similar performance. It is probably not good for them. They need to find certain use case where one does better than the other. I also find their comparison of console to PC gpu very controversial.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Gameplay is generally the worst benchmark of all to be honest. Devs will typically cap framerate in an attempt to create smoothness, with DRS and even effect scaling mudding the waters. An unlocked FR with graphical settings and resolution locked in place is the preferred benchmark, which will rarely present itself in an in-game comparison. More console games should include the PC benchmarking tools, just to unravel the console warriors. LOL

Gameplay is THE ONLY real benchmark where it shows what the whole system can do compared to the others system. Let's say that DF made a photomode analysis first and people bought XSX version because DF said it has better fps in photomode and alongside they've downloaded Control via PS+. And then they start playing the game. And realize that PS5 runs better in GAMEPLAY. And people would question themselves, why i've bought XSX version and spent 60$ for if it runs worse in gameplay.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

*Slow clap* Just when I thought I'd seen it all. Those tweets have got to be the absolute dumbest things I've ever read.

 

[Clear]

That be some EPIC trolling!

 

[Mister Wolf]

Well you can exaggerate but it's kindof true - deferred renderers were commonly used during 360/PS3 gen, and the game has much better assets. The new game has some particle efffects that I don't remember from before, but maybe they're just better than before.

So yeah " a game with a PS3 renderer and better assets.", seems right.

[they claim 'real time global illumination system" but that's seems to be just like probes ]

I haven't got time to watch an hour long video on a game I didn't particularly like when it first came out, so maybe you could summarise in your response instead of just leaving a mocking reply next time.

The raytracing, environmental destruction/physics, and smoke/light/liquid effects in Control are more graphically impressive/demanding than anything going on in Demon Souls. People get hung up on high res textures but at the end of the day they don't mean much. Cant countt how many fan mods Ive seen adding new high res textures/character models to old ass games and that's basically all Demon Souls is. Its a toothless remake where they were scared to add anything of substance. Compare it to RE1 Remake and it shows just how uninspired it is..

 

[FrankWza]

And realize that PS5 runs better in GAMEPLAY.

Who cares. Don’t you watch basketball?
After one team loses to another team most of the time there’s always analysis and focus of how the losing team is tremendous at free throw shooting. They break down the game and take away defense, transitions, shots from the floor, 3 point shooting and rebounding from the winning team. Then they explain how, when everyone stands around watching the losing team shoot they are incredible. That’s how analysts always do things.
the series x is the best free throw shooting console there is. Period.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

That be some EPIC trolling!

It's like they don't even realize that Gears Hivebusters DLC, among other games, are an actual thing on Series X.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Gameplay is THE ONLY real benchmark where it shows what the whole system can do compared to the others system. Let's say that DF made a photomode analysis first and people bought XSX version because DF said it has better fps in photomode and alongside they've downloaded Control via PS+. And then they start playing the game. And realize that PS5 runs better in GAMEPLAY. And people would question themselves, why i've bought XSX version and spent 60$ for if it runs worse in gameplay.

I love these premature celebrations before the obvious patches come. Feel bad for people thinking Series X will continue to drop performance when text appears on the screen.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

I won’t too far to say what he is trying to say but the DF obvious shows there is some bottleneck with Series X.

Here the bottleneck is 30fps cap.

But the takeaway from DF video is that Series X might show more power in ray trace heavy titles [if not bottlenecked elsewhere] .. however - it's not just ray trace in control - the game is generally graphically compute heavy - volumetric fog and other volumetric effects etc, signed distance fields etc ..

Maybe this is just the game where Series X shines - nothing more complicated than that..

(Where there other ray trace game comparisons between PS5 and Series X? I don't watch everything)

 

[FatKingBallman]

I love these premature celebrations before the obvious patches come. Feel bad for people thinking Series X will continue to drop performance when text appears on the screen.

Yeah. Talking about premature celebrations.... Reminds me of XSX reveal and screaming 12 TF full RDNA 2 power...:/ When first comparisons came... Yikes! And sometimes even patch can't fix things on XSX. Looks like patch, photomode and better tools are the only things where supposedly game could run better on XSX

 

[ethomaz]

Here the bottleneck is 30fps cap.

But the takeaway from DF video is that Series X might show more power in ray trace heavy titles .. however - it's not just ray trace in control - the game is generally graphically compute heavy - volumetric fog and other volumetric effects etc, signed distance fields etc ..

Maybe this is just the game where Series X shines - nothing more complicated than that..

(Where there other ray trace game comparisons between PS5 and Series X? I don't watch everything)

There is many...

DMCV
Watch Dogs 2
CoD

Just to say a few.

The bottleneck is not the cap but how the Xbox goes below the 30fps cap while PS5 not... the opposite in gameplay of what a pure GPU Photo Mode case shows.

Séries X had always a 12TFs GPU but why it can’t be used in games? You need to think about that.

 

[martino]

The raytracing, environmental destruction/physics, and smoke/light/liquid effects in Control are more graphically impressive/demanding than anything going on in Demon Souls. People get hung up on high res textures but at the end of the day they don't mean much. Cant countt how many fan mods Ive seen adding new high res textures/character models to old ass games and that's basically all Demon Souls is. Its a toothless remake where they were scared to add anything of substance. Compare it to RE1 Remake and it shows just how uninspired it is..

You're diminishing lot of stuff here....
Demon souls is probably the first game to use primitive shader (with its dynamic tesselation system)
Most things are real time too....
Maybe it doesn't look massively different than baked especially on screenshot but you really see the difference doing actions involving light and shadow in it.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Here the bottleneck is 30fps cap.

But the takeaway from DF video is that Series X might show more power in ray trace heavy titles .. however - it's not just ray trace in control - the game is generally graphically compute heavy - volumetric fog and other volumetric effects etc, signed distance fields etc ..

Maybe this is just the game where Series X shines - nothing more complicated than that..

(Where there other ray trace game comparisons between PS5 and Series X? I don't watch everything)

Maybe. But COD has RT shadows and performs slightly better on PS5. In Control and during gameplay the only thing we know is the XSX game drops lower than the PS5 game but we don't have like for like scenes.

 

[Leyasu]

There is a lot.

DMCV
Watch Dogs 2
CoD

Just to say a few.

Back to talking about bottlenecks when you have zero idea what you are talking about, no knowledge of anything, no devs talking about them and basing it on a some rushed out launch games. Or patched games.

If things continue once we get to the holiday games this year then you ight be on to something.

 

[ethomaz]

Back to talking about bottlenecks when you have zero idea what you are talking about, no knowledge of anything, no devs talking about them and basing it on a some rushed out launch games.

The video in this thread is the evidence you want.
It is basically the first evidence of all the speculation we are having with the comparisons until now.

 

[Leyasu]

The video in this thread is the evidence you want.
It is basically the first evidence of all the speculation we are having with the comparisons until now.

Oh, because the game drops frames whilst running compared to the PS5? Do you or any of the other hardcore sony fanboys talking about that know enough of what went into the xbox port of this to be able to state that as a fact?

 

[vpance]

I won’t too far to say what he is trying to say but the DF obvious shows there is some bottleneck with Series X.

It's probably something very unique to XSX that won't be seen on other platforms, with the split memory bus that creates bandwidth contention when using the CPU.

 

[ethomaz]

Oh, because the game drops frames whilst running compared to the PS5? Do you or any of the other hardcore sony fanboys talking about that know enough of what went into the xbox port of this to be able to state that as a fact?

Maybe you are not following the comparisons... that explain a lot.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

It's probably something very unique to XSX that won't be seen on other platforms, with the split memory bus that creates bandwidth contention when using the CPU.

iirc Series X tends to have drops where PS5 has drops, but Series X generally dropped longer - that makes me think it's not RAM, maybe asset streaming.

 

[Riky]

There is many...

DMCV
Watch Dogs 2
CoD

Just to say a few.

The bottleneck is not the cap but how the Xbox goes below the 30fps cap while PS5 not... the opposite in gameplay of what a pure GPU Photo Mode case shows.

Séries X had always a 12TFs GPU but why it can’t be used in games? You need to think about that.

You literally just make things up, it's quite sad.

In both Ray Traced modes on DMC V the Xbox consistently outperformed PS5, as per the DF video

Watch Dogs Legion not two they were both a locked 30.

CALL of Duty RT mode is the 60fps one, Xbox had a small advantage, basically locked.

If you're going to make stuff up at least try something people can't check

 

[Leyasu]

Maybe you are not following the comparisons... that explain a lot.

I have been following the comparisons....

Not one "insider" nor any devs have come out anonymously or otherwise and said that they have encountered bottlenecks in the system. The only people stating this are you and the other unpaid professional sony fanboys that dwell on here or on twitter.

The problem is that you all run around liking your nonsense posts so much, that in the end you start to believe the stupidities that you write. But, like I said, I am keeping an open mind on it. Just that I want to see some games that have been made for these systems and that have had plenty of time in the oven first. Also, something from people that are actually involved with making games instead of fanboy nonsense would be more believable.

 

[The Pleasure]

Power your dreams! In photo mode.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You literally just make things up, it's quite sad.

In both Ray Traced modes on DMC V the Xbox consistently outperformed PS5, as per the DF video

Watch Dogs Legion not two they were both a locked 30.

CALL of Duty RT mode is the 60fps one, Xbox had a small advantage, basically locked.

If you're going to make stuff up at least try something people can't check

What's with the 120FPS mode being better on the PS5?

I mean granted the XSX handles the RT mode better but it's only by .01 FPS. It's essentially locked on the PS5 as well. Doubt anyone is going to notice a .01FPs difference in the average framerate.

BTW I still believe the two COD versions are essentially the same between the two platforms. There's no noticeable difference in any of the modes.

 

[Black_Stride]

I reported this post because this should be a bannable offense
If you even read what those tweets said you wouldnt have the nuts to post them.

 

[vpance]

iirc Series X tends to have drops where PS5 has drops, but Series X generally dropped longer - that makes me think it's not RAM, maybe asset streaming.

Dunno about that, it's still a last gen game. Hard to see it stressing out either SSD.

That said, asset streaming is linked to CPU ops. shrug

 

[FrankWza]

What's with the 120FPS mode being better on the PS5?

I mean granted the XSX handles the RT mode better but it's only by .01 FPS. It's essentially locked on the PS5 as well. Doubt anyone is going to notice a .01FPs difference in the average framerate.

BTW I still believe the two COD versions are essentially the same between the two platforms. There's no noticeable difference in any of the modes.

He tried to gobbledygook it. “Consistently outperformed” hahahaha

 

[MasterCornholio]

He tried to gobbledygook it. “Consistently outperformed” hahahaha

I don't know. If I had to pick which COD version to go with I'd choose the PS5 one. That isn't because of the performance or anything it's just the DualSense features seem more interesting to me.

 

[quest]

What's with the 120FPS mode being better on the PS5?

I mean granted the XSX handles the RT mode better but it's only by .01 FPS. It's essentially locked on the PS5 as well. Doubt anyone is going to notice a .01FPs difference in the average framerate.

BTW I still believe the two COD versions are essentially the same between the two platforms. There's no noticeable difference in any of the modes.

You mean another half assed rushed job on the series x because of poor platform sales. The patch was supposed to be post release instead it was it runs fuck it release it. They fine tuned thev ps5 version since they got ps5 kits the series x got a 2 month port.

Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition – Ray-Tracing Coming to Xbox Series X Later

gamingbolt.com

Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition slices its way onto PlayStation 5

Vergil unleashes stylish new gameplay and ray-tracing enhances the demonic world.

blog.playstation.com

First up, next-gen upgrades. As soon as we got PS5 dev kits in our hands, our team began kicking the tires to see what kind of performance we could wring out of it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You mean another half assed rushed job on the series x because of poor platform sales. The patch was supposed to be post release instead it was it runs fuck it release it. They fine tuned thev ps5 version since they got ps5 kits the series x got a 2 month port.

Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition – Ray-Tracing Coming to Xbox Series X Later

gamingbolt.com

Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition slices its way onto PlayStation 5

Vergil unleashes stylish new gameplay and ray-tracing enhances the demonic world.

blog.playstation.com

First up, next-gen upgrades. As soon as we got PS5 dev kits in our hands, our team began kicking the tires to see what kind of performance we could wring out of it.

So a conspiracy theory?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well you can exaggerate but it's kindof true - deferred renderers were commonly used during 360/PS3 gen, and the game has much better assets.

if you want to be reductive most games are using evolutions of approaches already used in that era, not sure what the point is there.

The new game has some particle efffects that I don't remember from before, but maybe they're just better than before.

So yeah " a game with a PS3 renderer and better assets.", seems right.

[they claim 'real time global illumination system" but that's seems to be just like probes ]

I haven't got time to watch an hour long video on a game I didn't particularly like when it first came out, so maybe you could summarise in your response instead of just leaving a mocking reply next time.

Ok, I find it odd how dismissive you are of other people’s time while at the same time making sure you remind others your time is precious... not too precious to spend time calling the PS5 Demon Souls remake sporting souped up PS3 graphics without any supporting fact but precious enough not to watch an interview with the game’s developer discussing its tech and asking others to collect the data and present it to you.

Edit: you said it is a last last generation game (PS3) that makes no use of any modern rendering technique/approach (without listing what these modern approaches are). Quite sure Physically Based materials (PBR) were neither common nor that much of a feasible approach on PS3 for starters. Dynamic tessellation with screen space occlusion data generation they also use for local shadows (mixing shadow maps and screen based effects to add shadows to the geometry that was dynamically generated during tessellation), the lighting for their GI solution is dynamic (they support real-time moving light sources, they do use probes but they dynamically update them based on camera and light sources position), temporal reconstruction of full 4K frame starting from a lower native resolution, do not quite remember the density of geometry detail or the quality of fog and particles to come anywhere close to what Bluepoint is doing here (not to mention the framerate they achieved), the shading of the characters’ skin is also quite far ahead PS3 era games, antialiasing of edges and surfaces (PS3 games greatly suffered from surface aliasing for anything beyond a simple textured surface), improved physics (including multi-layer destructible systems, a quick example to make would breakable wooden shelves with breakable bottles/vases on top and of course there are quite a lot of such objects you can interact with and they are fairly detailed objects too... sure Red Faction Guerrilla laughs at this, but you can also see the price the game paid to deliver that too), the volumetric fog they use, etc.... Let alone that being able to drive and stream the kind of geometry detail and textures is light years beyond any PS3 era game.

I am not sure a game needs to invent novel rendering approaches to be able to take advantage of the HW of its time properly and be worth playing (and impressing people). Not sure how you can have a non bored and dismissive attitude for almost any game out there.

 

[TBiddy]

I'm amazed that we're at 17 pages now, 'discussing' what ultimately will have absolutely no impact on any of you guys. Half of you aren't going to buy the game at all and the other half will defend your console to the death and will only resort to petty cheap shots, built on cherrypicked screenshots or fabricated half-truths. It's insane.

 

[Senua]

I'm amazed that we're at 17 pages now, 'discussing' what ultimately will have absolutely no impact on any of you guys. Half of you aren't going to buy the game at all and the other half will defend your console to the death and will only resort to petty cheap shots, built on cherrypicked screenshots or fabricated half-truths. It's insane.

Gaming forums in a nutshell dude, I don't see the point in moaning about it, it's how it always was and will be.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I'm amazed that we're at 17 pages now, 'discussing' what ultimately will have absolutely no impact on any of you guys. Half of you aren't going to buy the game at all and the other half will defend your console to the death and will only resort to petty cheap shots, built on cherrypicked screenshots or fabricated half-truths. It's insane.

Well you don't exactly need to buy the game to play it. It's included with PlayStation Plus in case you didn't know. A lot of people have access to the game.

Isn't that what you always wanted?

 

[Alebrije]

I'm amazed that we're at 17 pages now, 'discussing' what ultimately will have absolutely no impact on any of you guys. Half of you aren't going to buy the game at all and the other half will defend your console to the death and will only resort to petty cheap shots, built on cherrypicked screenshots or fabricated half-truths. It's insane.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

if you want to be reductive most games are using evolutions of approaches already used in that era, not sure what the point is there.


Ok, I find it odd how dismissive you are of other people’s time while at the same time making sure you remind others your time is precious... not too precious to spend time calling the PS5 Demon Souls remake sporting souped up PS3 graphics without any supporting fact but precious enough not to watch an interview with the game’s developer discussing its tech and asking others to collect the data and present it to you.

I am not sure a game needs to invent novel rendering approaches to be able to take advantage of the HW of its time properly and be worth playing (and impressing people). Not sure how you can have a non bored and dismissive attitude for almost any game out there.

Dude your first reply to me was a comtemptous one liner. Don't waste my time getting on your fucking high horse.

 

[phil_t98]

so when I watched the video and when he talked bottleneck both consoles where in the same scene running 45fps and xbox edges to 47fps. how do people get he was only talking xbox when both were identical?

 

[MDSLKTR]

Funny how I knew who posted this without even looking at the user quote.

 

[quest]

So a conspiracy theory?

They put on their website September that half the patch was delayed on the series x until further notice. But a miracle happens in the middle of a pandemic they find a way to release it on time but it runs like shit in all modes. So they half assed it to push it out period. But the ps5 they started to work on over a year ago that was released on time ran as expected shocker. The better selling platform got better treatment it was a business decision hardly a conspiracy. The better selling platform will get preferential treatment nothing new to the winner goes the spoils.

 

[MasterCornholio]

They put on their website September that half the patch was delayed on the series x until further notice. But a miracle happens in the middle of a pandemic they find a way to release it on time but it runs like shit in all modes. So they half assed it to push it out period. But the ps5 they started to work on over a year ago that was released on time ran as expected shocker. The better selling platform got better treatment it was a business decision hardly a conspiracy. The better selling platform will get preferential treatment nothing new to the winner goes the spoils.

You do know the game got patched right on both systems?

Or are you trying to saying the XSX version should be vastly better than the PS5 version?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Dude your first reply to me was a comtemptous one liner. Don't waste my time getting on your fucking high horse.

You start with cocky dismissive one liners, continue with more of the same, while holding others to a higher standard. Talk about looking down on others.

 

[Md Ray]

So wait, that means CPU's are bottlenecking in control?. like how trash are those cpu's?

It's not. The CPUs aren't bottlenecking anything. It was just a speculation.

Do you seriously think an 8C/16T Zen 2 Renoir-based CPU is "trash" and is going to be a bottleneck, that too, in photomode on a last-gen game?

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

You start with cocky dismissive one liners, continue with more of the same, while holding others to a higher standard. Talk about looking down on others.

idk what the fuck you are talking about, sounds more like a description of yourself - this was literally the first thing you said to me :

Sure, a game with a PS3 renderer and better assets... sure buddy.

You're a prick

 

[Mister Wolf]

What's with the 120FPS mode being better on the PS5?

I mean granted the XSX handles the RT mode better but it's only by .01 FPS. It's essentially locked on the PS5 as well. Doubt anyone is going to notice a .01FPs difference in the average framerate.

BTW I still believe the two COD versions are essentially the same between the two platforms. There's no noticeable difference in any of the modes.

They lowered the resolution make it less GPU limited.