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[Fredrik]

In all the instances I've tried, photo mode is identical to RT gameplay.

That poster/map is missing in both, just as it's present on the opposite side of that pillar in both.

Check! You did good work here
After some comparison dramas I sometimes wonder if people even play the games, there is always someone saying we need to wait for a new comparison video after a patch to see if stutters has disappeared instead of simply starting the game, and zooming into a video to see missing stuff in a released game is just odd.

 

[Topher]

The merits of this benchmark should be discussed, in what it’s good for and why it’s a good indicator of A but not a good indicator of B.

It could be used as a learning experience on how game engines work.

If this type of benchmark is used as an indicator of overall performance, then it’s a lie.

It is interesting and yes, an academic exercise at best. If there were some mystery of the pure processing power of the two GPUs then this would have been useful to uncover more information, but we already have this information. One is 12 TF and the other is 10.2 TF. What has always been in contention is how much will this difference show up in actual gameplay. And so what has this benchmark shown us about that? Not much. Photo mode is not gameplay. This is why it was described as "academic". This is not a practical benchmark. That is what "academic" means in this context.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Looks like a traditional video game that’s it.

 

[Shmunter]

Less papers on a desk? All that stuff moves if you sneeze. Inconclusive as indication of a bug.

But we’ve established it is a bug already via a video above.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And here comes the PS brigade. You don't have to win every time kiddos... it will be all right.

That is so cute, first start the gloating/ shit stirring, start posting stuff about Sony Mafia, and after a while circle the wagons in the OT to talk about how mean Sony fans are/oppressed the other lot is...

 

[ethomaz]

There is no stuttering on PC. I played the game for hours a few days ago.

Well both DF and PC Gamer said it has.

BTW seems like you can try to fix it changing some Windows settings... at least that is how some PC players dealt with it:

Control PC DX12 stuttering fix, performance enhancing patches for PC and console inbound

Control PC DirectX 12 mode fix for stuttering frame rate. Remedy explains why there is no HDR support in Control.

www.game-debate.com

Here is how you can completely fix the annoying DX12 stutters, even with Ray Tracing, in Control

PC gamers can use Exploit Protection in order to eliminate all stuttering issues in Control, and we can confirm that this solution actually works.

www.dsogaming.com

 

[RGB'D]

Win what exactly? I know this is just photomode but with the gameplay they are practically the same. The only thing that I can see being a big delta is the install size but that really doesn't matter of you have plenty of space on the drive.

Oh they are basically the same. For the record literally every game is performing basically the same. They are both fantastic consoles. But threads on this site generally go one of two ways. Either a PS5 marginal performance advantage gets touted from the roof tops and makes its way into every thread (especially threads that aren't even mentioning anything about PS5) or a PS5 marginal deficit is defended with the verocity of 1,000 wildebeest. Either way the posts are coming and most of them are akin to the toddler having a tantrum (ala the gif). I love my PS5. I hate the sony fanatics that proliferate this site. Its just that this site is still the best for videogame discussion so I have to put up with them...

 

[Black_Stride]

Please be a serious person man.

Controls clutter is procedural you could literally load the same scene on the same console and the clutter would be different.

If youve never played Control and dont care about it please dont come and chat nonsense.
Clutter is nigh impossible to have like for like.

The people testing would need to keep reloading the stages until the clutter RNG aligned on all systems.
A waste of time because we all know its procedural and random and doesnt actually affect anything.

 

[OverHeat]

Both DF and PC Gamer said it has.

They are right, there is some even on a NVMe SSD

 

[paulyboy81]

PS5

I tried walking far away until the door automatically closed.

I'm not here to show that XsX has lower quality RT reflections, I'm just providing this photo.

As has been pointed out, this is the opposite side of the pillar to the DF video, that reflection is present on Series X, regardless of how far back you get.

See below:

 

[MasterCornholio]

Oh they are basically the same. For the record literally every game is performing basically the same. They are both fantastic consoles. But threads on this site generally go one of two ways. Either a PS5 marginal performance advantage gets touted from the roof tops and makes its way into every thread (especially threads that aren't even mentioning anything about PS5) or a PS5 marginal deficit is defended with the verocity of 1,000 wildebeest. Either way the posts are coming and most of them are akin to the toddler having a tantrum (ala the gif). I love my PS5. I hate the sony fanatics that proliferate this site. Its just that this site is still the best for videogame discussion so I have to put up with them...

Well to be honest I hate all fanatics no matter which platform they support. They tend to ruin discussions here. I don't have selective vision and only see one group destroying the discussions here.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

This is a common misunderstanding. They always use 100% of what they are ABLE to use. But improving and optimizing coding in time, CU's average idle time is reduced and the final result on screen improves and what they are able to use increases. But they never purposedly leave power unused.

It literally happened in this case.

 

[OverHeat]

 

[ethomaz]

It literally happened in this case.

No optimization will ever make you use the full GPU power if others parts of the hardware hold it back.

People are confusing a full GPU photo mode scenario with a gameplay integration scenario... GPU power is not everything for a game.

But Battalhia loves to create console wars with biased takes.

 

[Spitfire098]

Oh they are basically the same. For the record literally every game is performing basically the same. They are both fantastic consoles. But threads on this site generally go one of two ways. Either a PS5 marginal performance advantage gets touted from the roof tops and makes its way into every thread (especially threads that aren't even mentioning anything about PS5) or a PS5 marginal deficit is defended with the verocity of 1,000 wildebeest. Either way the posts are coming and most of them are akin to the toddler having a tantrum (ala the gif). I love my PS5. I hate the sony fanatics that proliferate this site. Its just that this site is still the best for videogame discussion so I have to put up with them...

I find the tool defense force equally annoying.

 

[FatKingBallman]

From now on, for the sake of Xbox fans and their happiness and for the sake of XSXs power proveness, i hope that every game will only have photomode and ray tracing. No joy of gameplay, no destructions, no npcs, no shooting, no jumping, no changeable time of day...just pure ray tracing, reflections and photomode and gaming community will be happy. I just want future of gaming to be like that. Imagine games with over 100GB of ray tracing and photomode. And of course, future benchmarks will be provided by Alex. Long live Dictator

 

[ethomaz]

Oh they are basically the same. For the record literally every game is performing basically the same. They are both fantastic consoles. But threads on this site generally go one of two ways. Either a PS5 marginal performance advantage gets touted from the roof tops and makes its way into every thread (especially threads that aren't even mentioning anything about PS5) or a PS5 marginal deficit is defended with the verocity of 1,000 wildebeest. Either way the posts are coming and most of them are akin to the toddler having a tantrum (ala the gif). I love my PS5. I hate the sony fanatics that proliferate this site. Its just that this site is still the best for videogame discussion so I have to put up with them...

Context is important.

PS5 marginal performance advantage is contextually with the 18% raw power advantage of Series X.

So on Xbox fans head PS5 is not only taking their 18% advantage but doing even better.

After all the power narrative only exists because MS and Xbox fans created and pushed it for a whole year.

“Nobody” saw that backslash coming lol

 

[FireFly]

Isn't that the same of stating that PS5 might have other advantages at play that end up balancing the whole thing?

Well, I'm talking specifically whether the XSX enjoys any performance advantages at all, and in particular whether it could have a higher average framerate in the ray tracing mode. Since in this thread the claim seems to be that the advantage is purely synthetic and would not manifest in actual gameplay. (It's a further question whether this advantage would be balanced out by other deficits).

If the GPU related avantages were consequential the most obvious use would have been to enable higher quality ray tracing settings with the same frame rate cap on the XSX. Remedy couldn't do that.
And removing the cap with the current settings has no sense since the system is nowhere in a position of being able to render close to 60fps so you'd just end up with a hugely fluctuating frame rate all the time.

Other than ray traced debris, the other ray tracing effects (contact shadows, diffuse lighting) incur a larger than 16% performance cost on PC, so this doesn't seem surprising. Removing the cap wouldn't make much sense, but they could have dropped the resolution instead, or better, adopted DRS to keep the framerate at 60 FPS. If the performance advantage persisted, you would see this as a higher average resolution, and perhaps a close adherence to 1080p60 on the XSX. However Remedy have made it clear that they didn't have the resources to invest in such a mode.

So yeah, the GPU difference that DF has discovered using a really specific and academic benchmark situation simply couldn't be used in any factual way by Remedy in a real world situation and in real world siutation where CPU is involved (with phisics, AI and more) the two systems overall end up performing the same, actually PS5 has no stutters.

That remains to be proven. It certainly true that with the resources at their disposal, they were not able to make a mode that performs better on the XSX. We will have to see what happens in future projects.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

where are the posters that attacked me when i believed in the SX power gap? shame on you!

where is master FUD @geordiemp btws?

Great, it has a benefit in situations where mostly the GPU is stressed.

Unfortunately that's not even representative of hiw the game where the tests are done perform when the whole system is in use.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

nah. Control is an extremely poor performer even on PC. It's not a good benchmark for anything. Especially RT. Part of it is the destruction which is unlike anything this gen, but its mostly just an extremely poorly optimized game.

Here to defend Control - it does a ton of things Spiderman doesn't (or does them more) - not just physics - dynamic volumetric shadows, particle effects x10, fog, many many more sources of light.


Spiderman is much more a straight rasterisation + ray traced reflections.

I think it's an unfair take

 

[Riky]

where are the posters that attacked me when i believed in the SX power gap? shame on you!

where is master FUD @geordiemp btws?

I guess Hitman 3 shattered his illusion, 44% beating by a server blade can do that to you.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I guess Hitman 3 shattered his illusion, 44% beating by a server blade can do that to you.

Will there be the standard for all games going forward though? Big if true.

 

[RoboFu]

For those crying about using photo mode as the benchmark... stop. It’s the most perfect way to benchmark the Gpus. Since the game settings are said to be identical it’s a great comparison ... With this we can see that the XSX gpu isn’t the bottle neck. This is good information going forward for the people who really like discussing the tech side of hardware.

 

[martino]

I guess Hitman 3 shattered his illusion, 44% beating by a server blade can do that to you.

me:

 

[MasterCornholio]

With this we can see that the XSX gpu isn’t the bottle neck.

How is that positive news? You just said the XSX has a bottleneck that prevents it from fully utilizing it's GPU. Question is if this bottleneck will go away or is a permanent issue.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Context is important.

PS5 marginal performance advantage is contextually with the 18% raw power advantage of Series X.

So on Xbox fans head PS5 is not only taking their 18% advantage but doing even better.

After all the power narrative only exists because MS and Xbox fans created and pushed it for a whole year.

“Nobody” saw that backslash coming lol

This is probably one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here.

Xbox has an advantage in raw memory bandwidth and shader compute, and has shown an advantage when either is the primary bottleneck limiting frames (most of the RT modes etc.). Sony has an advantage in pixel and triangle fill, which shows itself in modes that stress those areas most. The whole idea that Sony has "bypassed the GPU advantage" by winning a frame here or there is foolhardy and vice versa.

 

[MasterCornholio]

This is probably one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here.

Xbox has an advantage in raw memory bandwidth and shader compute, and has shown an advantage when either is the primary bottleneck limiting frames (most of the RT modes etc.). Sony has an advantage in pixel and triangle fill, which shows itself in modes that stress those areas most. The whole idea that Sony has "bypassed the GPU advantage" by winning a frame here or there is foolhardy and vice versa.

So I'm guessing Sony might have an advantage in foto mode without RT.

Is it possible to use foto mode without it?

That might be interesting to see.

 

[RoboFu]

How is that positive news? You just said the XSX has a bottleneck that prevents it from fully utilizing it's GPU. Question is if this bottleneck will go away or is a permanent issue.

It’s not suppose to be positive or negative news .. it’s just data.

 

[ethomaz]

This is probably one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here.

Xbox has an advantage in raw memory bandwidth and shader compute, and has shown an advantage when either is the primary bottleneck limiting frames (most of the RT modes etc.). Sony has an advantage in pixel and triangle fill, which shows itself in modes that stress those areas most. The whole idea that Sony has "bypassed the GPU advantage" by winning a frame here or there is foolhardy and vice versa.

That os not the narrative build before the launch of the consoles... that PS5 advantage in others areas only started to be something after the first games comparison... even so DF was denial (I don’t know how that is possible is a phase said a lot by Richard and Battalhia these last two months).

The narrative was always Xbox is the most powerful console ever created... ohhhh that changed too to most powerful Xbox ever created lol

My post is 100% based in what happened.

You had to be out from GAF or internet for over a year to not see that.

 

[skneogaf]

Yeah, that's why I said that it will vary game by game. This photo-mode analysis doesn't confirm 100% that XSX's always has and will have GPU headroom in every game. Because we already have an example when XSX's GPU was stressed, when PS5's wasn't.

I don't believe the xbox gpu will have head room. In fact I think xbox will only win with shader heavy or RT heavy graphics whereas the ps5 gpu will be better at polygon heavy graphics.

I also believe the higher clock speed is proving to be a difference.

That's why we need more to find out properly.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It’s not suppose to be positive or negative news .. it’s just data.

Well I just assumed any kind of bottleneck is negative for a system. Like if there's one that prevents the GPU from being fully utilized that would be a negative thing.

ps5 gpu will be better at pixel heavy graphics.

Im not really sure what kind of games will be like that. I'm guessing any game that doesn't use RT?

 

[FranXico]

So I'm guessing Sony might have an advantage in foto mode without RT.

Is it possible to use foto mode without it?

That might be interesting to see.

Play in performance mode and then start photo mode?

What kind of a stupid benchmark would that be?

Oh, right...

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

So I'm guessing Sony might have an advantage in foto mode without RT.

Is it possible to use foto mode without it?

That might be interesting to see.

Probably both lock at 60fps

 

[ethomaz]

So I'm guessing Sony might have an advantage in foto mode without RT.

Is it possible to use foto mode without it?

That might be interesting to see.

Yes but it will be limited to 60fps on both consoles... PS5 already run at mostly 60fps so basically no change here but it will make Series X 60fps.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

Im not really sure what kind of games will be like that. I'm guessing any game that doesn't use RT?

Demon's Souls is one. Mostly because it's a last-last-gen game with super extra textures and assets, and none of the new rendering techniques.

So just test it on Series X for a comparison I suppose ..

 

[MasterCornholio]

Play in performance mode and then start photo mode?

What kind of a stupid benchmark would that be?

Oh, right...

Probably both lock at 60fps

I don't know I thought the results might have been interesting to see with a different frametime.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Demon's Souls is one. Mostly because it's a last-last-gen game with super extra textures and assets, and none of the new rendering techniques.

So just test it on Series X for a comparison I suppose ..

Well Demon Souls does look really good. Maybe other next gen games will do something similar?

 

[RGB'D]

Well to be honest I hate all fanatics no matter which platform they support. They tend to ruin discussions here. I don't have selective vision and only see one group destroying the discussions here.

Oh me too. There are just significantly more playstation fanatics and by proxy, they impact my neogaf consumption more. Its objectively measurable that they have more posts and replies with their fud. That's why they get more disdain from me than the xbox or Nintendo console warriors... not that they are any better, they just aren't impacting my neogaf experience as much.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Oh me too. There are just significantly more playstation fanatics and by proxy, they impact my neogaf cobsumption more. Its objectively measurable that they have more posts and replies with their fud. That's why they get more disdain from me than the xbox or Nintendo console warriors... not that they are any better, they just aren't impacting my neogaf experience as much.

I've been watching the next gen speculation thread since the beginning and I saw how crazy things can get from both sides. And it's usually the same people that do it over and over again. Thankfully Gaf eliminates the worst of them.

As for Nintendo fans besides one or two of them they don't really bother me here. There is one user that had a temp for manipulating his threads and has an appropriate tag to boot. He's probably the worst of them.

 

[martino]

people really need to see this video like it's equivalent of this :

 

[DaGwaphics]

So I'm guessing Sony might have an advantage in foto mode without RT.

Is it possible to use foto mode without it?

That might be interesting to see.

If it dropped the frame cap, that wouldn't be a bad benchmark at all. Basically anything that lets the systems run without limitation and without significant differences between the output can be a good benchmark between systems. I think the 60fps cap holds though, so not much point in that.

 

[phil_t98]

Please be a serious person man.

Controls clutter is procedural you could literally load the same scene on the same console and the clutter would be different.

If youve never played Control and dont care about it please dont come and chat nonsense.
Clutter is nigh impossible to have like for like.

The people testing would need to keep reloading the stages until the clutter RNG aligned on all systems.
A waste of time because we all know its procedural and random and doesnt actually affect anything.

so every thing is the same except a few things but your saying it would load different every time

 

[skneogaf]

Well I just assumed any kind of bottleneck is negative for a system. Like if there's one that prevents the GPU from being fully utilized that would be a negative thing.



Im not really sure what kind of games will be like that. I'm guessing any game that doesn't use RT?

I meant to type polygons to be honest. I also think the higher clock speed is proving a difference so more benchmark comparisons may show this.

 

[MasterCornholio]

If it dropped the frame cap, that wouldn't be a bad benchmark at all. Basically anything that lets the systems run without limitation and without significant differences between the output can be a good benchmark between systems. I think the 60fps cap holds though, so not much point in that.

Ultimately what I believe is the most important benchmark is actual gameplay. But it definitely would still be interesting to see even though it won't represent how the game plays.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I meant to type polygons to be honest. I also think the higher clock speed is proving a difference so more benchmark comparisons may show this.

Like the Unreal 5 demo?

I'm guessing that engine should give us some interesting results since it pushes the polygon counts.

 

[skneogaf]

Demon's Souls is one. Mostly because it's a last-last-gen game with super extra textures and assets, and none of the new rendering techniques.

So just test it on Series X for a comparison I suppose ..

This is the game that really has been thinking about the difference that may prove correct.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Ultimately what I believe is the most important benchmark is actual gameplay. But it definitely would still be interesting to see even though it won't represent how the game plays.

Gameplay is generally the worst benchmark of all to be honest. Devs will typically cap framerate in an attempt to create smoothness, with DRS and even effect scaling mudding the waters. An unlocked FR with graphical settings and resolution locked in place is the preferred benchmark, which will rarely present itself in an in-game comparison. More console games should include the PC benchmarking tools, just to unravel the console warriors. LOL

 

[MasterCornholio]

Gameplay is generally the worst benchmark of all to be honest. Devs will typically cap framerate in an attempt to create smoothness, with DRS and even effect scaling mudding the waters. An unlocked FR with graphical settings and resolution locked in place is the preferred benchmark, which will rarely present itself in an in-game comparison. More console games should include the PC benchmarking tools, just to unravel the console warriors. LOL

Honestly a benchmark based off gameplay will inform me on how the game will play on my system. Some weird fotomode benchmark isn't going to do that but it still is interesting to see.

 

[THEAP99]

 

[Panajev2001a]

Demon's Souls is one. Mostly because it's a last-last-gen game with super extra textures and assets, and none of the new rendering techniques.

So just test it on Series X for a comparison I suppose ..

Sure, a game with a PS3 renderer and better assets... sure buddy.