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[SenjutsuSage]

Really nothing can go wrong with Xbox. Everything is the best on Xbox.

You all keep doing this not so subtle dance where you whisper in dark corners that the Series X hardware is fundamentally bottlenecked and will never achieve the potential of its spec. You all know full well these types of things are nothing more than early development hiccups that will be completely ironed out with time, right? I'll be fair, though, I'd totally be taking my early shots wherever I could get them too, but this is all building towards a fundamental, inescapable reality.

(wanted an excuse to use this gif)

There is no innate flaw in the hardware design of Series X that secretly makes PS5 the more powerful console. There is nothing that youtube "engineers" like moores law and redtech have seen that Microsoft and AMD have somehow overlooked or miscalculated. No amount of Cerny magic can change one simple reality: Not only is PS5 the weaker console, it also isn't even close enough as to be considered "more or less equal in performance" to Series X as some hope is the ultimate outcome when all cards from both platforms are fully on the table in each of their most impressive future games. Series X is just flat out stronger. The reason performance between the two consoles - save for a few edge cases - is looking most often like a wash is largely because Series X is playing with one arm tied behind its back.

How so? Well, between games clearly being designed more around PS5 first and then merely ported over to Series X with, for the most part, the exact same configuration and data organization - which often won't properly address the difference in GPU performance across 10GB of GPU Optimal memory which runs at 560GB/s and 3.5GB of standard memory which runs at 336GB/s for Series X's asymmetric memory design - this ends up contributing to an occurrence where Series X's much larger GPU ends up running into many more situations where all those additional shader ALUs - 1024 more to be exact compared to the PS5 - end up being bandwidth starved.

This is how you get performance stutter that isn't present on PS5, or how you get bizarre performance drops when simple text is being shown on screen. Unless people actually want to believe Xbox Series X can't handle large text appearing on screen in Control without big dips in performance when weaker PCs and consoles manage the task just fine?

On the PS5 side it comes down to nothing more than simplicity and ease. PS5 has a more straightforward unified memory setup where all available game memory sees the same 448GB/s. Asymmetric memory is the biggest factor so far in Series X not showing the gap. It's a memory bandwidth thing, and this is why Sampler Feedback Streaming is so important and vital to the Series X design. It increases effective RAM capacity by 2.5x. So that 10GB of GPU optimal memory will seem more like 25GB. Even scaling it back some, and saying only 5GB of the 10GB (since not all 10GB will be for textures) that still works out to 12.5GB of effective memory, still leaving the other 5GB of GPU optimal, thus pushing it to an effective 17.5GB of memory that will all operate at the 560GB/s memory speed. In this entire thing I've left out and haven't even factored in the 2.5GB of slower memory. And before some of you start telling me these numbers/memory savings are fantastical and aren't at all realistic, I refer you all to your kraken/oodle PS5 SSD compression/decompression posts/threads. If we can/should take those numbers seriously, we can take the far less fanciful SFS numbers provided by Microsoft seriously as well.

Some may call the asymmetric memory design a flaw in Series X, but it's far from it. It was a clever decision to get the power they wanted at the price they wanted. It was either that or 20GB of RAM and price yourself out of the game. The other alternative was going with even faster GDDR6 RAM, another move that could price them out of competitiveness. This is something developers have to design for, but it isn't all on developers. Microsoft has to make it easier, more error free. They need to get more developers actually using Sampler Feedback Streaming in their titles. This is literally the reason Microsoft said that Xbox Velocity Architecture is the soul of Xbox Series X. It's how the console will meet its full potential.

So when I see these early game comparisons and all this talk of PS5 "punching above its weight," another way I've come to look at it is that Series X's basic memory setup seems to be getting ignored in cases despite the very real performance drawbacks of doing so, and it's only because of the built in power advantage that it still ends up easily matching the PS5 experience, or only barely losing till patch arrives, or even having the edge over PS5. But we've already seen cases where Series X clearly outdoes PS5. Hitman 3 doesn't happen by accident or pure chance. It still represents the largest gap between both consoles thus far.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You all keep doing this not so subtle dance where you whisper in dark corners that the Series X hardware is fundamentally bottlenecked and will never achieve the potential of its spec. You all know full well these types of things are nothing more than early development hiccups that will be completely ironed out with time, right? I'll be fair, though, I'd totally be taking my early shots wherever I could get them too, but this is all building towards a fundamental, inescapable reality.

(wanted an excuse to use this gif)

There is no innate flaw in the hardware design of Series X that secretly makes PS5 the more powerful console. There is nothing that youtube "engineers" like moores law and redtech have seen that Microsoft and AMD have somehow overlooked or miscalculated. No amount of Cerny magic can change one simple reality: Not only is PS5 the weaker console, it also isn't even close enough as to be considered "more or less equal in performance" to Series X as some hope is the ultimate outcome when all cards from both platforms are fully on the table in each of their most impressive future games. Series X is just flat out stronger. The reason performance between the two consoles - save for a few edge cases - is looking most often like a wash is largely because Series X is playing with one arm tied behind its back.

How so? Well, between games clearly being designed more around PS5 first and then merely ported over to Series X with, for the most part, the exact same configuration and data organization - which often won't properly address the difference in GPU performance across 10GB of GPU Optimal memory which runs at 560GB/s and 3.5GB of standard memory which runs at 336GB/s for Series X's asymmetric memory design - this ends up contributing to an occurrence where Series X's much larger GPU ends up running into many more situations where all those additional shader ALUs - 1024 more to be exact compared to the PS5 - end up being bandwidth starved.

This is how you get performance stutter that isn't present on PS5, or how you get bizarre performance drops when simple text is being shown on screen. Unless people actually want to believe Xbox Series X can't handle large text appearing on screen in Control without big dips in performance when weaker PCs and consoles manage the task just fine?

On the PS5 side it comes down to nothing more than simplicity and ease. PS5 has a more straightforward unified memory setup where all available game memory sees the same 448GB/s. Asymmetric memory is the biggest factor so far in Series X not showing the gap. It's a memory bandwidth thing, and this is why Sampler Feedback Streaming is so important and vital to the Series X design. It increases effective RAM capacity by 2.5x. So that 10GB of GPU optimal memory will seem more like 25GB. Even scaling it back some, and saying only 5GB of the 10GB (since not all 10GB will be for textures) that still works out to 12.5GB of effective memory, still leaving the other 5GB of GPU optimal, thus pushing it to an effective 17.5GB of memory that will all operate at the 560GB/s memory speed. In this entire thing I've left out and haven't even factored in the 2.5GB of slower memory. And before some of you start telling me these numbers/memory savings are fantastical and aren't at all realistic, I refer you all to your kraken/oodle PS5 SSD compression/decompression posts/threads. If we can/should take those numbers seriously, we can take the far less fanciful SFS numbers provided by Microsoft seriously as well.

Some may call the asymmetric memory design a flaw in Series X, but it's far from it. It was a clever decision to get the power they wanted at the price they wanted. It was either that or 20GB of RAM and price yourself out of the game. The other alternative was going with even faster GDDR6 RAM, another move that could price them out of competitiveness. This is something developers have to design for, but it isn't all on developers. Microsoft has to make it easier, more error free. They need to get more developers actually using Sampler Feedback Streaming in their titles. This is literally the reason Microsoft said that Xbox Velocity Architecture is the soul of Xbox Series X. It's how the console will meet its full potential.

So when I see these early game comparisons and all this talk of PS5 "punching above its weight," another way I've come to look at it is that Series X's basic memory setup seems to be getting ignored in cases despite the very real performance drawbacks of doing so, and it's only because of the built in power advantage that it still ends up easily matching the PS5 experience, or only barely losing till patch arrives, or even having the edge over PS5. But we've already seen cases where Series X clearly outdoes PS5. Hitman 3 doesn't happen by accident or pure chance. It still represents the largest gap between both consoles thus far.

So where's your proof that Hitman 3 will become the standard?

 

[FatKingBallman]

There is nothing that youtube "engineers" like moores law and redtech have seen that Microsoft and AMD have somehow overlooked or miscalculated. No amount of Cerny magic can change one simple reality: Not only is PS5 the weaker console, it also isn't even close enough as to be considered "more or less equal in performance" to Series X as some hope is the ultimate outcome when all cards from both platforms are fully on the table in each of their most impressive future games. Series X is just flat out stronger. The reason performance between the two consoles - save for a few edge cases - is looking most often like a wash is largely because Series X is playing with one arm tied behind its back.

Looks like you're Twitter and GAF engineer then which just confirming what i've said : nothing can go wrong with Xbox.

Some may call the asymmetric memory design a flaw in Series X, but it's far from it. It was a clever decision to get the power they wanted at the price they wanted.

Everything is clever in Xbox. And tools too. Just devs needs to be more clever than the tools

But we've already seen cases where Series X clearly outdoes PS5. Hitman 3 doesn't happen by accident or pure chance. It still represents the largest gap between both consoles thus far.

Clearly the largest gap? But Hitman 3 is performing better on PS5. :/. But i know, the tools, right

 

[bender]

So where's your proof that Hitman 3 will become the standard?

 

[FrankWza]

So where's your proof that Hitman 3 will become the standard?

That’s what that post was about? Thanks for reading it and giving us the way-tldr

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't think I killed him yet. Honestly he probably doesn't know if it's true or not. It's just a wait and see approach really.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That’s what that post was about? Thanks for reading it and giving us the way-tldr

Basically SenjutsuSage said that Hitman 3 will become the standard between multiplats on the two systems. Essentially expect Native 4K and higher settings on XSX while 1800P and lower settings on the PS5. He also said the velocity architecture is superior to the I/O system that Sony has.

Edit: To make it more simple expect a PS4 vs X1X kind of generation.

I highly doubt the gap is that large though.

 

[ethomaz]

I won’t say that you’re wrong because I might misinterpret you, but this is how I’ve learned that vsync is working:

With vsync on the console/PC won’t push out a new frame until the TV/screen is ready to deal with the next one, it’ll be a queue or sorts. That’s why you see a judder if a new frame isn’t ready when the TV/screen is, a frame will be shown twice.
It’ll be: 12344567 etc

With vsync off the console/PC will push out a new screen no matter if the TV/screen is ready or not.
It’ll be: 12345678 etc, but it can still look like crap since one image can consist of two or even three frames.

So vsync on doesn’t mean that you can’t have an uncapped framerate below 60fps on a 60hz vsynced display, it just means that it’ll look like crap since all screen updates won’t have a new frame, some will be doubled. And all the double frames 12334556 etc will be a noticeable judder.

This is where VRR does it’s magic btw, this is what Riky is clearly enjoying and the rest of us are jelaous of. With VRR activated the TV will take care of the next frame as soon as it gets a new one no matter what. Even at fluctuating 51 to 57fps it’ll be: 12345678 etc, the TV will have a smooth judder free 51-57hz frame update.
Gsync works the same way.

That is how VSync works.

“ In other words, the game’s framerate won’t go higher than the display’s refresh rate. For instance, if the display can only do 60Hz at 1,920 x 1,080, Vsync will lock the framerate at 60 frames per second. No more screen tearing.

But there’s a side effect. If your PC’s GPU can’t keep a stable framerate that matches the display’s refresh rate, you’ll experience visual “stuttering.” That means the GPU is taking longer to render a frame than it takes the monitor to refresh. For example, the display may refresh twice using the same frame while it waits for the GPU to send over a new frame. Rinse and repeat.

As a result, Vsync will drop the game’s framerate to 50 percent of the refresh rate. This creates another problem: lag. There’s nothing wrong with your mouse, keyboard, or game controller. It’s not an issue on the input side. Instead, you’re simply experiencing visual latency.”

What is VSync and why should you use it (or not)

What is VSync and should you use it in games? We explain what causes the need for VSync along with its benefits and side effects.

www.androidauthority.com

50% of the refresh rate is 30fps.
So with VSync on when the hardware can’t hold 60fps it will stutter to 30fps.

There is a game on PS4 that suffered this issue because it was using VSync... when the framerate dropped below 60fps it automatically dropped to 30fps due VSync... the framerate come back to 60fps it become 60fps all the time with VSync... it never showed the framerate between 31 and 59... just 60 or 30.

GSync is a type of Adaptive Sync and not VSync... Adaptive Sync only turn on VSync on when the framerate is over the refresh rate and usable when it is lower.

Adaptive Sync was created to deal with the issues you have when you can’t maintain the framerate over the target for VSync works.

BTW Control has absolutely no VSync in place when running Photo Mode.

 

[FatKingBallman]

That’s what that post was about? Thanks for reading it and giving us the way-tldr

Basically SenjutsuSage said that Hitman 3 will become the standard between multiplats on the two systems. Essentially expect Native 4K and higher settings on XSX while 1800P and lower settings on the PS5. He also said the velocity architecture is superior to the I/O system that Sony has.

Edit: To make it more simple expect a PS4 vs X1X kind of generation.

I highly doubt the gap is that large though.

XSX version of Hitman 3 clearly outdoes PS5 version, but somehow PS5 version is performing better than XSX version is swept under the rug. :/

 

[Fafalada]

thats is a benchmark of the gpus ....

Actually it's not really. A GPU benchmark would require a software stack parity which we don't have here (and we never really will - unless we get a distilled developer test that only runs against GPU - like that paper Ubisoft did with crowd-simulations on GPU in 2014).
Obviously we also have no way of proving the extent of differences - but that didn't stop people from talking about 'tools' for months now.

Basically - we have a specific example of Remedy's RT implementation performance on each of the respective consoles. And a 'reasonable' expectation that GPU is the major contributor in scenarios tested, though that makes the relative contribution comparison circumstantial.
Ie. because the % shown falls within expected on-paper numbers, more people are willing to take it as reasonable. If delta shown was larger/smaller more people would be arguing the flawed methodology instead (which is what happened to some earlier similar benchmarks).

 

[MasterCornholio]

XSX version of Hitman 3 clearly outdoes PS5 version, but somehow PS5 version is performing better than XSX version is swept under the rug. :/

I mean Hitman 3 is best on the XSX. However unlike SenjutsuSage beliefs I don't think we can use it to predict the outcome of all future multiplats. There are plenty multiplats out there that contradict it.

I'm willing to wait and see what the results will be like but it's a bit to soon to say what the standards will be like.

 

[Knitted Knight]

So where's your proof that Hitman 3 will become the standard?

The same proof they had before this gen started and all of them started voluntary hibernation till Hitman (with a gratuitous signal boost from DF).

Bootie proof: pulling things out of your behind.

 

[intbal]

Paging @NXGamer....

Is his personal channel dead now?

 

[Physiognomonics]

I mean Hitman 3 is best on the XSX. However unlike SenjutsuSage beliefs I don't think we can use it to predict the outcome of all future multiplats. There are plenty multiplats out there that contradict it.

I'm willing to wait and see what the results will be like but it's a bit to soon to say what the standards will be like.

Yes Hitman 3 is best on XSX. But this game actually doesn't prove XSX has a more potent hardware as they have different resolution and framerate stats.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yes Hitman 3 is best on XSX. But this game actually doesn't prove XSX has a more potent hardware as they have different resolution and framerate stats.

I mean if they were both 4K with DRS at 60FPs it would be easier to tell. But I'm pretty sure the developers made the PS5s settings lower to hit that framerate target. Although they have their own engine and it might just like the XSX hardware better. The other multiplats that I've seen didn't do the same with the settings.

 

[ethomaz]

Batalhia when being called out about his video comparison...

Seriously? You must know from watching DF that my investment in next gen consoles is purely intellectual and I quite literally only care about games on PC and the PC platform.

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

I think this may have been the game. -------------------- Could this be attributed to XBSX possibly using VRS in Control or a lower precision RT reflection during a given scene? (Not my image by the way) So this one is solved by a member in the DF discord, Cliptacular, this is a bug. Only 1...

forum.beyond3d.com

Translation: “I only care about PC but do console wars for hobby.”

 

[Elios83]

LOL this thread has exploded
Could someone give me a quick update on what's happening?
Skipping through posts it seems like DF is being questioned on many aspects also on other message boards.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Batalhia when being called out about his video comparison...

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

I think this may have been the game. -------------------- Could this be attributed to XBSX possibly using VRS in Control or a lower precision RT reflection during a given scene? (Not my image by the way) So this one is solved by a member in the DF discord, Cliptacular, this is a bug. Only 1...

forum.beyond3d.com

Translation: “I only care about PC but do console wars for hobby.”

Too much heat. Usually cracks like a diva... at reeera they give him special privileges for the sort of tantrums that would get a normie banned. You know you pushed the BS meter a tad far when the competition and the semi-intellectuals who believe they're above the rest start to pile on you cause it's easy pickings - and these clowns usually calculate their words to the milimeter, instead of being, you know, honest about how they really feel.

 

[ethomaz]

VGTech is not getting the same framerate results than Bathallia... he questioned him on Beyond3D.

Seems like the DF tools interpret torn frames as unique and so increase the real fps.

I guess the discussion will get on fire in the next days.

 

[Riky]

LOL this thread has exploded
Could someone give me a quick update on what's happening?
Skipping through posts it seems like DF is being questioned on many aspects also on other message boards.

The tin foil hat brigade have gone past DF and now claim the developers are lying about their own game.

 

[polybius80]

You all keep doing this not so subtle dance where you whisper in dark corners that the Series X hardware is fundamentally bottlenecked and will never achieve the potential of its spec. You all know full well these types of things are nothing more than early development hiccups that will be completely ironed out with time, right? I'll be fair, though, I'd totally be taking my early shots wherever I could get them too, but this is all building towards a fundamental, inescapable reality.

(wanted an excuse to use this gif)

There is no innate flaw in the hardware design of Series X that secretly makes PS5 the more powerful console. There is nothing that youtube "engineers" like moores law and redtech have seen that Microsoft and AMD have somehow overlooked or miscalculated. No amount of Cerny magic can change one simple reality: Not only is PS5 the weaker console, it also isn't even close enough as to be considered "more or less equal in performance" to Series X as some hope is the ultimate outcome when all cards from both platforms are fully on the table in each of their most impressive future games. Series X is just flat out stronger. The reason performance between the two consoles - save for a few edge cases - is looking most often like a wash is largely because Series X is playing with one arm tied behind its back.

How so? Well, between games clearly being designed more around PS5 first and then merely ported over to Series X with, for the most part, the exact same configuration and data organization - which often won't properly address the difference in GPU performance across 10GB of GPU Optimal memory which runs at 560GB/s and 3.5GB of standard memory which runs at 336GB/s for Series X's asymmetric memory design - this ends up contributing to an occurrence where Series X's much larger GPU ends up running into many more situations where all those additional shader ALUs - 1024 more to be exact compared to the PS5 - end up being bandwidth starved.

This is how you get performance stutter that isn't present on PS5, or how you get bizarre performance drops when simple text is being shown on screen. Unless people actually want to believe Xbox Series X can't handle large text appearing on screen in Control without big dips in performance when weaker PCs and consoles manage the task just fine?

On the PS5 side it comes down to nothing more than simplicity and ease. PS5 has a more straightforward unified memory setup where all available game memory sees the same 448GB/s. Asymmetric memory is the biggest factor so far in Series X not showing the gap. It's a memory bandwidth thing, and this is why Sampler Feedback Streaming is so important and vital to the Series X design. It increases effective RAM capacity by 2.5x. So that 10GB of GPU optimal memory will seem more like 25GB. Even scaling it back some, and saying only 5GB of the 10GB (since not all 10GB will be for textures) that still works out to 12.5GB of effective memory, still leaving the other 5GB of GPU optimal, thus pushing it to an effective 17.5GB of memory that will all operate at the 560GB/s memory speed. In this entire thing I've left out and haven't even factored in the 2.5GB of slower memory. And before some of you start telling me these numbers/memory savings are fantastical and aren't at all realistic, I refer you all to your kraken/oodle PS5 SSD compression/decompression posts/threads. If we can/should take those numbers seriously, we can take the far less fanciful SFS numbers provided by Microsoft seriously as well.

Some may call the asymmetric memory design a flaw in Series X, but it's far from it. It was a clever decision to get the power they wanted at the price they wanted. It was either that or 20GB of RAM and price yourself out of the game. The other alternative was going with even faster GDDR6 RAM, another move that could price them out of competitiveness. This is something developers have to design for, but it isn't all on developers. Microsoft has to make it easier, more error free. They need to get more developers actually using Sampler Feedback Streaming in their titles. This is literally the reason Microsoft said that Xbox Velocity Architecture is the soul of Xbox Series X. It's how the console will meet its full potential.

So when I see these early game comparisons and all this talk of PS5 "punching above its weight," another way I've come to look at it is that Series X's basic memory setup seems to be getting ignored in cases despite the very real performance drawbacks of doing so, and it's only because of the built in power advantage that it still ends up easily matching the PS5 experience, or only barely losing till patch arrives, or even having the edge over PS5. But we've already seen cases where Series X clearly outdoes PS5. Hitman 3 doesn't happen by accident or pure chance. It still represents the largest gap between both consoles thus far.

you are contradicting yourself and jumping to conclusions based on PR of tech instead of reading how it work and how its being compared, you talk about games not designed around XBSX designed to take advantage of its capabilities that is correct but then you talk about hitman 3 as a correct example of using the capabilities of XBSX and PS5 when its a game that works on PS4 and Xbox one also is a PSVR game on PS4, its game that targets last gen and even PSVR, its not a good example of using PS5 and not even XBSX to its capabilities

about SFS, first it doesnt improve RAM, it minimizes the data it requires to get to ram, your ram stays the same and because of that other graphic buffers are not going to work twice as fast, also it doesnt achieve 2.5x more data streaming on top of other partial resident textures solutions, in fact it uses already PRT as part of the process

 

[Elios83]

Too much heat. Usually cracks like a diva... at reeera they give him special privileges for the sort of tantrums that would get a normie banned. You know you pushed the BS meter a tad far when the competition and the semi-intellectuals who believe they're above the rest start to pile on you cause it's easy pickings.

Ouch. Can't say it's not in his character though.

VGTech is not getting the same framerate results than Bathallia... he questioned him on Beyond3D.

Double ouch. So he's going to make a video about it? And what's wrong in Battaglia's analysis according to him?
If true seems like someone was a bit too impatient to show to the world the incredible results of photomode giving some kind of advantage to the XSX

The tin foil hat brigade have gone past DF and now claim the developers are lying about their own game.

I don't know about that but as I stated before all this mess exploded I think that this video was really rushed with many questions left totally unanswered. So what's their purpose, creating drama?
If they discovered this GPU advantage in photomode without CPU usage they should have also told us why this hasn't traslated to higher ray tracing settings and why with the same settings once all the CPU based aspects of the game are running, this advantage is pretty much lost.
In any case a thread with thousands of replies for a game that performs the same on both is ridiculous.

 

[MasterCornholio]

it runs on PS5 via backwards compatibility

Are you sure that it does? I always thought it was a native version of the game.

With Control we definitely do have confirmation that we are not dealing with BC.

 

[ethomaz]

Too much heat. Usually cracks like a diva... at reeera they give him special privileges for the sort of tantrums that would get a normie banned. You know you pushed the BS meter a tad far when the competition and the semi-intellectuals who believe they're above the rest start to pile on you cause it's easy pickings - and these clowns usually calculate their words to the milimeter, instead of being, you know, honest about how they really feel.

When he is questioned he become mad, throw insults, calls people console warriors (the irony) and stop to reply saying he only cares for PC.

 

[FatKingBallman]

VGTech is not getting the same framerate results than Bathallia... he questioned him on Beyond3D.

Seems like the DF tools interpret torn frames as unique and so increase the real fps.

I guess the discussion will get on fire in the next days.

VGA is VGTech there??

 

[Riky]

Are you sure that it does? I always thought it was a native version of the game.

With Control we definitely do have confirmation that we are not dealing with BC.

It doesn't, it has a physical PS5 release.

 

[ethomaz]

VGA is VGTech there??

From what I know yes... at least people there thread him as the VGTech guy.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It doesn't, it has a physical PS5 release.

Yep the Native PS5 version is far behind the XSX version for whatever reason. Still haven't seen this reflected in other games though.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Ouch. Can't say it's not in his character though.

Ouch indeed.

 

[DJ12]

VGTech is not getting the same framerate results than Bathallia... he questioned him on Beyond3D.

Seems like the DF tools interpret torn frames as unique and so increase the real fps.

I guess the discussion will get on fire in the next days.

Different mo deployed. Series x photomode activated as soon as he entered the area, ps5 allowed to build the full scene and details. According to the man himself. Probably took him hours to skew the results so much in series x favour lol

Vg tech confirms he's still seeing advantage to the xbox so completely unnecessary from DF, now they are just going to look like idiots.

 

[FrankWza]

Basically SenjutsuSage said that Hitman 3 will become the standard between multiplats on the two systems. Essentially expect Native 4K and higher settings on XSX while 1800P and lower settings on the PS5. He also said the velocity architecture is superior to the I/O system that Sony has.

Edit: To make it more simple expect a PS4 vs X1X kind of generation.

I highly doubt the gap is that large though.

XSX version of Hitman 3 clearly outdoes PS5 version, but somehow PS5 version is performing better than XSX version is swept under the rug. :/

The same proof they had before this gen started and all of them started voluntary hibernation till Hitman (with a gratuitous signal boost from DF).

Bootie proof: pulling things out of your behind.

The best part is, after all the head to heads and finally coming out ahead on hitman 3, the x owners celebrated this by not supporting it to the point that in the uk, where apparently the x was the highest selling console last month and it was still outsold by a huge margin by PS.
it’s obvious that anyone who purchased an x is unhappy with these head to heads and at this point is in a “protest” mode where they aren’t purchasing multiplats on x and are just using gamepass. They were expecting huge gulfs between each console that they aren’t getting. It’s a gut punch.

 

[Elios83]

Probably took him hours to skew the results so much in series x favour lol

LOL I can totally see the scene in my mind
But if this turns out to be the case and it's proved it will be absolutely embarrassing....not that I am surprised, you can absolutely feel from their tones how much they're hurting with these results in general. They truly wanted to see much bigger gaps.

 

[MasterCornholio]

VGTech is not getting the same framerate results than Bathallia... he questioned him on Beyond3D.

Seems like the DF tools interpret torn frames as unique and so increase the real fps.

I guess the discussion will get on fire in the next days.

You have a link?

I always like reading VGTECHs input.

 

[Caio]

VGTech is not getting the same framerate results than Bathallia... he questioned him on Beyond3D.

Seems like the DF tools interpret torn frames as unique and so increase the real fps.

I guess the discussion will get on fire in the next days.

I didn't know that, and things really become interesting now. When we should get the face-off of VGTech ?

 

[polybius80]

Are you sure that it does? I always thought it was a native version of the game.

With Control we definitely do have confirmation that we are not dealing with BC.

you are right, the its for the PSVR version, my bad

 

[FatKingBallman]

Yep the Native PS5 version is far behind the XSX version for whatever reason. Still haven't seen this reflected in other games though.

Anyway, next-upgrade is some improved lighting, HDR and of course increased resolution, load times and 60fps. Basically like Division 2 patch. Textures remained the same as on last-gen consoles. This is a pretty much an improved BC game PS4Pro for PS5, X1X for XSX. You can see comparisons between PS4/Pro/PS5 on youtube.

 

[ethomaz]

You have a link?

I always like reading VGTECHs input.

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

Intresting is that in some cases the difference can be 36%, which is quite close to hitman 3's performance differentional, besides the XSX spending much of its time in the 50s and PS5 in the 40's fps range. we don't know h3 perf difference only that on ps5 runs 1800p and native 4k on xsx, its...

forum.beyond3d.com

He asked the to mod remove the original comment to not put the community against DF/Bathallia after Battalhia said the discussion was making his health worst lol... but he is still supporting his first comment that can be found in the quotes.

He just showed how the DF tools take torn frames as unique frames... so elevating the actual framerate... weird that Bathalia doesn’t seems to accept because he even told us their tools were useless for frame count in Vanalla due the torn frames.

Some guys there are trying to defense Ditactor like you can’t disagree with him lol

 

[FranXico]

VGTech is not getting the same framerate results than Bathallia... he questioned him on Beyond3D.

Seems like the DF tools interpret torn frames as unique and so increase the real fps.

I guess the discussion will get on fire in the next days.

Alex is adamant that v-sync is never disabled (and therefore, there are no torn frames), but it's visible right there, and VGA even said that he could see the counter registering the artifact as another frame instead of a duplicate.

If there was a bug where one of the versions is v-synced and the other isn't, the entire exercise would be rendered pretty much useless. As would 25 pages worth of discussion. LOL

Just to be clear, I am joking, btw.

 

[FrankWza]

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

Intresting is that in some cases the difference can be 36%, which is quite close to hitman 3's performance differentional, besides the XSX spending much of its time in the 50s and PS5 in the 40's fps range. we don't know h3 perf difference only that on ps5 runs 1800p and native 4k on xsx, its...

forum.beyond3d.com

He asked the to mod remove the original comment to not put the community against DF/Bathallia after Battalhia said the discussion was making his health worst lol... but he is still supporting his first comment that can be found in the quotes.

He just showed how the DF tools take torn frames as unique frames... so elevating the actual framerate... weird that Bathalia doesn’t seems to accept because he even told us their tools were useless for frame count in Vanalla due the torn frames.

Some guys there are trying to defense Ditactor like you can’t disagree with him lol

Alex is adamant that v-sync is never disabled (and therefore, there are no torn frames), but it's visible right there, and VGA even said that he could see the counter registering the artifact as another frame instead of a duplicate.

If there was a bug where one of the versions is v-synced and the other isn't, the entire exercise would be rendered pretty much useless. As would 25 pages worth of discussion. LOL

Just to be clear, I am joking, btw.

Tough to consider anything this guy says when he’s supposed to provide technical know how and he just downgraded himself to “confident”
Should he be certain when providing technical interpretation? If he isn’t he shouldn’t comment or he should make it clear he isn’t certain from the start.

 

[ethomaz]

Alex is adamant that v-sync is never disabled (and therefore, there are no torn frames), but it's visible right there, and VGA even said that he could see the counter registering the artifact as another frame instead of a duplicate.

If there was a bug where one of the versions is v-synced and the other isn't, the entire exercise would be rendered pretty much useless. As would 25 pages worth of discussion. LOL

Just to be clear, I am joking, btw.

I don’t think either is using VSync... if it was VSynced every time the framerate was below 60 it should drop instantly to 30fps generating stuttering.

The framerate variate between 3x and 5x all the time.

 

[ethomaz]

Tough to consider anything this guy says when he’s supposed to provide technical know how and he just downgraded himself to “confident”
Should he be certain when providing technical interpretation? If he isn’t he shouldn’t comment or he should make it clear he isn’t certain from the start.

?

He said he is confident in what he said even after Batalhia said the discussion was affecting his health.
He just not stepped back even with the cries from Batalhia and supporters.

I’m really curious to see his new video.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

Intresting is that in some cases the difference can be 36%, which is quite close to hitman 3's performance differentional, besides the XSX spending much of its time in the 50s and PS5 in the 40's fps range. we don't know h3 perf difference only that on ps5 runs 1800p and native 4k on xsx, its...

forum.beyond3d.com

He asked the to mod remove the original comment to not put the community against DF/Bathallia after Battalhia said the discussion was making his health worst lol... but he is still supporting his first comment that can be found in the quotes.

He just showed how the DF tools take torn frames as unique frames... so elevating the actual framerate... weird that Bathalia doesn’t seems to accept because he even told us their tools were useless for frame count in Vanalla due the torn frames.

Some guys there are trying to defense Ditactor like you can’t disagree with him lol

Sounds like VGtech is working on their own comparison. Should be interesting to compare the two.

 

[SlimySnake]

If vg tech has proof then he should make a video instead of calling out Alex on some obscure tech forum from the 50s. Make a video of photo mode and do the same tests Alex did.

This shouldn't be that hard.

Other than that, we are literally going into conspiracy theories now and soon this forum will become a laughing stock if DF's results are confirmed by other parties. Let's just take L and move on. You win some, you lose some. The ps5 lost this one. Mission failed, we will get them next time.

 

[MasterCornholio]

If vg tech has proof then he should make a video instead of calling out Alex on some obscure tech forum from the 50s. Make a video of photo mode and do the same tests Alex did.

This shouldn't be that hard.

Other than that, we are literally going into conspiracy theories now and soon this forum will become a laughing stock if DF's results are confirmed by other parties. Let's just take L and move on. You win some, you lose some. The ps5 lost this one. Mission failed, we will get them next time.

I don't really see people arguing that the PS5 has the advantage in fotomode.

 

[Negotiator101]

I didn't know that, and things really become interesting now. When we should get the face-off of VGTech ?

PS5 has a worse GPU than Series X, this is a GPU test PS5 cannot win in this scenario, just accept it and move on. There is nothing interesting going on lol

 

[MasterCornholio]

PS5 has a worse GPU than Series X, this is a GPU test PS5 cannot win in this scenario, just accept it and move on. There is nothing interesting going on lol

Pretty much why comparing this to the gameplay is pretty interesting. The GPU does have that power but it doesn't necessarily translate to the gameplay. A very interesting study.

 

[Elios83]

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

Intresting is that in some cases the difference can be 36%, which is quite close to hitman 3's performance differentional, besides the XSX spending much of its time in the 50s and PS5 in the 40's fps range. we don't know h3 perf difference only that on ps5 runs 1800p and native 4k on xsx, its...

forum.beyond3d.com

He asked the to mod remove the original comment to not put the community against DF/Bathallia after Battalhia said the discussion was making his health worst lol... but he is still supporting his first comment that can be found in the quotes.

He just showed how the DF tools take torn frames as unique frames... so elevating the actual framerate... weird that Bathalia doesn’t seems to accept because he even told us their tools were useless for frame count in Vanalla due the torn frames.

Some guys there are trying to defense Ditactor like you can’t disagree with him lol

Based on my memories he always acted like that also on other message boards.
If he's worshipped and everyone takes all of his posts like gospel they have to be grateful for without understanding a word of what he says he stays, otherwise the message board is soon labeled as toxic and he leaves....

If vg tech has proof then he should make a video instead of calling out Alex on some obscure tech forum from the 50s. Make a video of photo mode and do the same tests Alex did.

This shouldn't be that hard.

Other than that, we are literally going into conspiracy theories now and soon this forum will become a laughing stock if DF's results are confirmed by other parties. Let's just take L and move on. You win some, you lose some. The ps5 lost this one. Mission failed, we will get them next time.

But PS5 has not lost anything in this one unless you enjoy playing with photomode , it actually has less stutters. This benchmark was already totally academic and unconsequential to the performance of the actual game....if now it turns out the analysis was wrong as well....

PS5 has a worse GPU than Series X, this is a GPU test PS5 cannot win in this scenario, just accept it and move on. There is nothing interesting going on lol

There is a lot interesting going on, how much the extent of the GPU advantage actually is, why it doesn't traslate into an actual advantage in a real game scenario and most importantly how much some people can be trusted with their analysis.

 

[Snake29]

PS5 has a worse GPU than Series X, this is a GPU test PS5 cannot win in this scenario, just accept it and move on. There is nothing interesting going on lol

Tell me, what's the definition of "worse"? You can't say something is worse because it has less raw TF power but other advantages, even in the GPU alone.
Is your girlfriend/boyfriend also worse since there are more good looking or better looking people in the world? They may look good from the outside, but shit from the inside.

Other then the 12TF raw power, the XSX GPU can be "worse" on a lot of other areas inside the GPU compared to the PS5 GPU.

If vg tech has proof then he should make a video instead of calling out Alex on some obscure tech forum from the 50s. Make a video of photo mode and do the same tests Alex did.

This shouldn't be that hard.

Other than that, we are literally going into conspiracy theories now and soon this forum will become a laughing stock if DF's results are confirmed by other parties. Let's just take L and move on. You win some, you lose some. The ps5 lost this one. Mission failed, we will get them next time.

Well if the Photo mode is the "Win" you where searching for, then have it. The real gameplay video is still in favor of the PS5.

 

[DJ12]

If vg tech has proof then he should make a video instead of calling out Alex on some obscure tech forum from the 50s. Make a video of photo mode and do the same tests Alex did.

This shouldn't be that hard.

Other than that, we are literally going into conspiracy theories now and soon this forum will become a laughing stock if DF's results are confirmed by other parties. Let's just take L and move on. You win some, you lose some. The ps5 lost this one. Mission failed, we will get them next time.

Nxgamer, vgtech and elanalistadebits all consistently get different result to df.

 

[Loope]

Batalhia when being called out about his video comparison...

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

I think this may have been the game. -------------------- Could this be attributed to XBSX possibly using VRS in Control or a lower precision RT reflection during a given scene? (Not my image by the way) So this one is solved by a member in the DF discord, Cliptacular, this is a bug. Only 1...

forum.beyond3d.com

Translation: “I only care about PC but do console wars for hobby.”

?

He said he is confident in what he said even after Batalhia said the discussion was affecting his health.
He just not stepped back even with the cries from Batalhia and supporters.

I’m really curious to see his new video.

You sure as shit seem very invested in this for an adult man. Jesus christ.

The PS5 is the best console ever and even pcs are shit compared to it. There, be happy. Also, DF are in MS pocket and they do this comparisons on purpose so Phil can be happy and the shit engineers MS has.

And while you were on it, since you're bringing information from beyond3d you could at least post the comparison Dictator made of the infamous corridor with the green light, that you and you buddies posted across two threads as some kind of gotcha.