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[Deleted member 17706]

Which DLSS mode?

I'm playing at 1440p with Quality DLSS, but on a 4K 120hz LG CX with adaptive sync on. Game runs well above 60fps at all times maxed out and looks incredible. To me, the difference in visual quality at 1440p vs 2160p is not huge compared to what I get from the boost in frame rate.

Here's what I'm running:

i9 10850k
32GB DDR4 3200mhz RAM
RTX 3080

 

[JackMcGunns]

Guys this game and Control are gonna be mano-a-mano, head-to-head, and wall-to-wall in Ray-Tracing.

Are you suggesting we can or can't see the difference?

 

[Platinumstorm]

Which one has RTX ?
Screen by me:

Good luck

I'm leaning to the right shot from the balcony observations.

 

[regawdless]

It's a generation difference sometimes.

I also like the last part of the video, where he shows RT performance on a regular 2060.

I am a bit baffled why CDPR chose to sharpen the shit out of TAA, but completely forgot about DLSS. That is why DLSS appears pretty blurry in comparison to native rendering. With CAS Sharpening per Reshade, DLSS looks sharp again and produces more details than native rendering even on DLSS Performance.

Yeah. Im using reshade clarity, lunasharpen and some very light adaptive sharpening.

Looks great and more detailed than native. Only drawback are some artifacts on a few edges while moving.
Still well worth it for me because I can max everything with RT at 1440p ~60fps with DLSS quality mode.

Game looks incredible.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Are you suggesting we can or can't see the difference?

Its the littles things. Most people noticed the window but I'm looking at the sheen the light is producing on her nice leather jacket.

 

[Lethal01]

It became the rally cry of the Summer Console War 2020 chapter



I agree. If consoles have to choose just one RT option this gen, I wish it would be lighting more often than reflections. Reflections are great but the RT lighting is next level IMO

I would appreciate if there are games that swap between them. A scene in a super metalic factory or a crystal cave may benefit more from reflections than lighting.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Yeah. Im using reshade clarity, lunasharpen and some very light adaptive sharpening.

Looks great and more detailed than native. Only drawback are some artifacts on a few edges while moving.
Still well worth it for me because I can max everything with RT at 1440p ~60fps with DLSS quality mode.

Game looks incredible.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Why do most think Ray tracing is just reflections

 

[Novacain]

I've spent about 5 hours with RTX on and about 30+ without it now (started with it on and disabled after that point). Haven't regretted it at all.

From my personal experience, I can tell when it's on/off in screens or side by side comparisons, but much like when SSAO or Bloom lighting was a new and performance heavy feature, it just doesn't add enough for my taste relative to the P4P performance hit compared to Ultra.

 

[Whitecrow]

Exactly what I'm talking about.

Cherry picking the worst case scenario. Well done.

 

[Lethal01]

When do you notice framerate? All the time.
When do you notice resolution? All the time.
When do you notice raytracing? Sometimes.

That's the issue right now, and since even the RTX 3090 gets brought to its knees, it really is not a big deal, especially when you a) are actually playing the game and not staring at benches to figure out what's going on (and 99% of people wouldn't know what to look for/at anyway), and b) don't have the comparison shot right in front of you. If it's not a RT'ed puddle I'd bet you 9/10 people wouldn't know the difference in a blind test.

Personally RT means a lot less to me when game has such glaring flaws as poor asset swapping & hamstrung streaming system (pop-in, low res txtr swaps etc), to say nothing of npc models (which is more understandable). If it's down to games looking more like Demon's Souls, or games looking more like Quake RTX, fuck RT, I know what I'm choosing. For me I'm all in on Nanite, first and foremost. We can negotiate RT as more GPU gens pass.

Which one has RT? In some shots it doesn't look as terrible but it it universally far worse.

I notice How shitty the lighting is without raytracing way easier than noticing resolution.
I notice the lighting way more than going from 60fps to 120fps
We agree that the pop in hurts the game immensely though

 

[Mister Wolf]

Which one has RT?

I notice How shitty the lighting is without raytracing way easier than noticing resolution.
I notices the lighting way more than going from 60fps to 120fps
We agree that the pop in hurts the game immensely though

And there is no way to bake the lighting(light bounce) on a character(dynamic object) riding in a moving vehicle(dynamic object).

 

[thuGG_pl]

I'm baffled that a technology that tries to simulate light accurately is being dissed with a passion.
And I don't really know why.
Sure, it's expensive, as many other techniques were, but the hardware will catch up, and RT will be the default lightning. Remember that it also reduces the artist work to prepare non RT lights.

 

[artsi]

I'm baffled that a technology that tries to simulate light accurately is being dissed with a passion.
And I don't really know why.
Sure, it's expensive, as many other techniques were, but the hardware will catch up, and RT will be the default lightning. Remember that it also reduces the artist work to prepare non RT lights.

Yeah imagine something like anti-aliasing getting this much resistance when it was invented.

"lol it's not like I zoom in 400% in game to see jaggies, I take performance over it"

It's graphical advancement, and will get cheaper every GPU gen forward.

 

[Lethal01]

Yeah imagine something like anti-aliasing getting this much resistance when it was invented.

"lol it's not like I zoom in 400% in game to see jaggies, I take performance over it"

It's graphical advancement, and will get cheaper every GPU gen forward.

I get your point but you see, the thing is, people are stupid.
Like super dumb, straight up moronic.
slackjawed mouth breathers.

Keep this in mind and everything makes sense.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

So some places that they worked have geracional difference RT lighting and reflection while others they just applied a random RT that doesn’t look good.

That's not how RT works.
No...the reason that RT isn't as impressive as you expect it to be is that developers are really, really, really fucking good at faking lighting. There's also something to be said about the art of lighting a scene. RT might be more realistic but, just like how movies use "fake" lights to ensure characters are well lit, realistic isn't always the best.

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Why do most think Ray tracing is just reflections

Because a lot of people have only experienced it in Spider-Man, on PS5, where it is only reflections

I'm baffled that a technology that tries to simulate light accurately is being dissed with a passion.
And I don't really know why.
Sure, it's expensive, as many other techniques were, but the hardware will catch up, and RT will be the default lightning. Remember that it also reduces the artist work to prepare non RT lights.

I just don't get the passion people have for trying to sweep it under the rug. Is it because they don't want to feel like they need to upgrade their GPU, like anti-FOMO of some kind?

Ray Tracing is awesome, and is just gonna keep getting better.

 

[artsi]

RT OFF vs ON

 

[Buggy Loop]

I'm baffled that a technology that tries to simulate light accurately is being dissed with a passion.
And I don't really know why.
Sure, it's expensive, as many other techniques were, but the hardware will catch up, and RT will be the default lightning. Remember that it also reduces the artist work to prepare non RT lights.

Looking at the constant Unreal 5 demo poping up in nearly every RT thread, or the backlash Digital Foundry's Alex Battaglia got when he analyzed the consoles as being a ~2060 (super? i don't recall) when enabling RT, means..... i can pretty much pinpoint that what happened is that the console warz got mixed into it.

 

[KyoZz]

Not every frame is gonna be a big difference. In those screens there's no reflections, and no sun light for rtx shadows to use.

A dark picture of a large area where you can't see shadow detail, lighting from the sun or reflections.
Okay.

This is a poor example, because it does not include any reflections and because the light sources are too far from the camera to see the objects on which they shine and subsequently how well they cause said objects to cast shadows. This comparison is bollocks.

Which one has RT?



Which one has RT?

Wow....

From the DF video:

No luck required. Difference is clear as day. Nice try though.

I'm not trying anything lol. I took those screens purely by curiosity, to see the differences by myself and I was like "wtf". But I know of course it can have a true visual impact, yours are good example. Still, I do think it's not worth the 30 FPS cost (for me).
You all need to chill about this game and stop taking any criticism like a personal attack, come smoke a blunt with me and talk about Panam's ass

So, RTX on or not in this one ?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I'm baffled that a technology that tries to simulate light accurately is being dissed with a passion.
And I don't really know why.

Well, the usual cope is telling everyone how great a certain PS5 exclusive looks and how that one tech demo that ran on a PS5 looks much better than stupid raytracing anyway. Why, oh why...

 

[Starfield]

the reflections are making a night and day difference. Travelling through night city especially at night is something to behold

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

Panam's ass

 

[Starfield]

I'm not trying anything lol. I took those screens purely by curiosity, to see the differences by myself and I was like "wtf". But I know of course it can have a true visual impact, yours are good example. Still, I do think it's not worth the 30 FPS cost (for me).
You all need to chill about this game and stop taking any criticism like a personal attack, come smoke a blunt with me and talk about Panam's ass

So, RTX on or not in this one ?

Ray tracing my ass....

I have more ray ray ass in case anyone wanna see

 

[CrustyBritches]

Here's 2 shots I took from the game. One is using RT+DLSS, and the other is using 'Ultra' SSR+Native Res(no RT or DLSS). Try to guess which is which! Bonus: Try to guess which is running faster...

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Which one has RTX ?
Screen by me:

Good luck

Imagine you compare shadows in scene without shadows and saying there is no difference at all. It's not working like that. What's next? Main menu screenshots with and without RT?

 

[KyoZz]

"- Follow me V, and don't get lost"

Oh dear follow you is the only thing I can do

Imagine you compare shadows in scene without shadows and saying there is no difference at all. It's not working like that. What's next? Main menu screenshots with and without RT?

 

[VFXVeteran]

THANK YOU ALEX!! Hopefully this will EDUCATE the uninformed.

I don't want to hear full RT is "too subtle to notice" anymore. Here is a game that shows what ALL the features enabled can make a leap in visuals.

 

[rofif]

I am playing it maxed with psycho ray tracing and the game still looks flat in the shadowed areas... but with any light, it's drop dead amazing

 

[VFXVeteran]

The lighting in RT is a complete game-changer. It is absolutely need and more of a jump than the Nanite tech. I'd rather have my real lighting instead of more geometry.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

I am playing it maxed with psycho ray tracing and the game still looks flat in the shadowed areas... but with any light, it's drop dead amazing

Sadly there are no shadows from every light source. Not every light source cast a ray-traced shadow. Maybe it will be very performance demanding on any today GPU as this game has TONS of different light sources at the same time. (lazy to provide a screenshot, sorry)

 

[VFXVeteran]

Which one has RTX ?
Screen by me:

Good luck

Easy - the 2nd photo is using RT

 

[VFXVeteran]

Sadly there are no shadows from every light source. Not every light source cast a ray-traced shadow. Maybe it will be very performance demanding on any today GPU as this game has TONS of different light sources at the same time. (lazy to provide a screenshot, sorry)

We can't even get 2 shadow casting lights in pure rasterization games. Not there yet. Deferred lighting will only get you light source intensity, but not shadows. You'd have to switch to forward rendering for shadows and that's too expensive for multiple light solutions.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Not every frame is gonna be a big difference. In those screens there's no reflections, and no sun light for rtx shadows to use.

The area lights is the biggest detractor here - which is what Alex covered first and the most expensive RT feature. If you know how lighting should look, you'll easily tell. It's the bottom one. The neon lights on the top are fake. Also there is lack of shadow in the top one where shadow is everywhere in the bottom one.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Which one has RT?

Which one has RT?

Unfair comparison. The changes in textures, etc.. are dramatic. Make a Minecraft using the standard SSR, transparency, updated textures, GI light probes, etc.. and THEN post a difference. Won't be 2011 vs 2020 version difference anymore.

 

[VFXVeteran]

This is the kind of performance and fidelity We should be seeing when we get our mid gen refresh consoles. In a few years, virtually all video cards will be pushing these much easier.

 

[VFXVeteran]

When do you notice framerate? All the time.
When do you notice resolution? All the time.
When do you notice raytracing? Sometimes.

That's the issue right now, and since even the RTX 3090 gets brought to its knees, it really is not a big deal, especially when you a) are actually playing the game and not staring at benches to figure out what's going on (and 99% of people wouldn't know what to look for/at anyway), and b) don't have the comparison shot right in front of you. If it's not a RT'ed puddle I'd bet you 9/10 people wouldn't know the difference in a blind test.

Personally RT means a lot less to me when game has such glaring flaws as poor asset swapping & hamstrung streaming system (pop-in, low res txtr swaps etc), to say nothing of npc models (which is more understandable). If it's down to games looking more like Demon's Souls, or games looking more like Quake RTX, fuck RT, I know what I'm choosing. For me I'm all in on Nanite, first and foremost. We can negotiate RT as more GPU gens pass.

This game shouldn't even be in the same thread as Cyberpunk RTX. Really?

UE5 demo has 0 scale compared to Cyberpunk. It also shouldn't even be compared. And it's rendering solution will still be wrong without RT.

 

[Dampf]

VFXVeteran on a roll here lol

 

[VFXVeteran]

I'm baffled that a technology that tries to simulate light accurately is being dissed with a passion.
And I don't really know why.
Sure, it's expensive, as many other techniques were, but the hardware will catch up, and RT will be the default lightning. Remember that it also reduces the artist work to prepare non RT lights.

Because the chances of it coming to next-gen consoles is very scarce because of it's expense. The console lovers hate that they can't get the latest and greatest on their machines. That's why. You don't see PC gamers hating on it.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

I'm gonna be doing a complete PC upgrade next year. Waiting for Nvidia's Hopper. I hope they make the jump to multi-chip modules. Maybe this is strange to say, but I feel as if MCM could usher in a pre and post GPU landscape. Nvidia's 3000 series could represent the last of traditional GPU monolithic design. Can only speculate on the kind of performance gains.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I think there’s talk of a 5nm ampere refresh before Hopper’s MCM, so likely we’ll see it in 2022.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Because the chances of it coming to next-gen consoles is very scarce because of it's expense. The console lovers hate that they can't get the latest and greatest on their machines. That's why. You don't see PC gamers hating on it.

I wonder why more proprietary game engines especially from Ubisoft and CDPR don't at least support Voxel GI and AO. I mean Crytek got Voxel GI working on the Switch.

 

[Tesseract]

Spoiler: ~

 

[thuGG_pl]

Because the chances of it coming to next-gen consoles is very scarce because of it's expense. The console lovers hate that they can't get the latest and greatest on their machines. That's why. You don't see PC gamers hating on it.

Oh but you do, mainly from AMD camp But AMD will get there also.

 

[Dampf]

Because the chances of it coming to next-gen consoles is very scarce because of it's expense. The console lovers hate that they can't get the latest and greatest on their machines. That's why. You don't see PC gamers hating on it.

There are a ton of PC gamers hating Raytracing.

Mainly those who bought outdated crap cards based on the RDNA1 architecture.

 

[RedVIper]

Unfair comparison. The changes in textures, etc.. are dramatic. Make a Minecraft using the standard SSR, transparency, updated textures, GI light probes, etc.. and THEN post a difference. Won't be 2011 vs 2020 version difference anymore.

Yeah as impressive as Minecraft RTX is it doesn't look quite as impressive when you compare with Minecraft with a decent shader.

 

[Lethal01]

There are a ton of PC gamers hating Raytracing.

Mainly those who bought outdated crap cards based on the RDNA1 architecture.

You give them too much credit, they aren't jealous or angry. Just wrong.

 

[Ironbunny]

There are a ton of PC gamers hating Raytracing.

Mainly those who bought outdated crap cards based on the RDNA1 architecture.

Nah, its just not worth the perfomance hit atm. Its good they keep perfecting it but for some of us the scale tips only once the perfomance catches the rtx off numbers. Its that simple.

 

[Lethal01]

You don't see PC gamers hating on it.

What? Yes, you do. All the time. regardless of if they have a 3080 of on rx580 you are constantly just hearing "You barely notice the difference", "All I see is a lower framerate" etc etc

Also let's chill with the UE5 downplaying just because people are console warring with it, Lumen is a wonderful combination of lighting techniques that will bring a lot of games more realistic dynamic lighting with Hardware accelerated RT and we absolutely still need far more geometry than we have and Nanite will help with the immensely.

Is RT a bigger deal? ye, But RT is literally the biggest deal.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Also let's chilld with the UE5 hate just because people are console warring with it, Lumen is a wonderful combination of lighting techniques that will bring a lot of games more realistic dynamic lighting with Hardware accelerated RT and we absolutely still need far more geometry than we have and Nanite will help with the immenesly.

You are starting an argument that you and I shouldn't have the need to discuss anymore - we are both of different tastes.

Lumen is a good dynamic VXGI method like some games that are out. The implementation is still scarce and I doubt it's adoption will be widespread for the majority of games as it's still expensive. I never said we didn't need Nanite. I don't think it's more important or makes more of a difference in the overall render than combined RT.