RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, I'll just go with the middle tier.
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DF: PlayStation Plus PS1/PS2/PSP Classic Games Emulators Tested - And They're Not Good Enough
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Pretty disappointing…
Fredrik
Member
Yeah, update came recently so it shows they heard the complaints and thought that would be a good solution. Why not just include the choice to download NTSC versions? They can keep the PAL versions for those who absolutely need other languages.
Gamerguy84
Member
Yep, exactly, I'm waiting on the product that hits the US.
Otre
Banned
Pal versions at 25fps on a 60/120hz display affect gameplay. If you cant distinguish that, good for you. The rest will see how a free emulator like Duckstation can offer a vaslty superior experience to a multi billion dollar corporation's emulation attempt that people have to pay for access. People that excuse this type of treatment for Sonys own legacy just shows the drone like mentality of lowly fanboys.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
And comments like yours betray a striking ignorance of what the priorities are when a supplier has to work inside the law, as opposed to in grey area fringes like emulation scene authors do.
01011001
Banned
what you said makes no sense. there's no legal issue for Sony that prevents them from having good emulation...
Otre
Banned
And comments like yours shows the spreading of the cheeks when defending a corporation. If you think a corporation is always inside the law when doing anything youre gullible as fuck. Standards are created. If you're a corporation with capital that offers a product of lower quality to a free one then it just shows you did not care more than having a sentence in your marketing promotion when compared to your competitor and getting money out of the loyalists you groomed over the years.
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Roman Empire
Member
That's why I love my PC emulators. Hobbyists doing a far better job on gaming preservation than these giant companies.
TrebleShot
Member
Only hardcore FPS nerds care about this, its a quick 5 mins ok that was cool lets play something modern on my 450 quid console.
Saber
Gold Member
I know John said its not representative of whats to come(John even mentions that others stores may offer other versions. OP does not mention this for some reason, yuck) , but still very depressing to see PS1 games having this treatment. Why even alter the Ape Escape PAL intro sequence speed just to match NTSC? Wouldn't be better to offer NTSC? Well...at least Toy Story 2 is ok.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Inside the law ? what exact law is preventing Sony from letting users access both NTSC and Pal versions on demand, like Nintendo does, lol.
The first line is that he's using the PS Asia lineup.
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CliffyB's Cock Holster
They have to legally source and license their Roms.
Their priorities are basic functionality and platform security.
Costs for the above need to factored in/balanced against all other operating expenses.
Its a whole other thing in a practical sense.
StealthGoblin
Banned
They definitely need to bring some of the people who head the most popular emulators and bring them in house.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
He's doing a lot of the DF threads and he always gives a nice summary instead of just lazily posting the YouTube link. All I see from you is whining.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
bruh ... expecting Sony to do it for their own first party published games should be the bare minimum ..
GametimeUK
Member
I would love for these games to look and perform better on PS5, but it is what it is. If these games were advertised as just being part of a low tier subscription I'd understand more. The fact that this is considered "premium tier" when there's nothing premium about it is where I have a bigger issue.
Hopefully they'll get it right one day, but I'm not losing sleep over it.
Hopefully they'll get it right one day, but I'm not losing sleep over it.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah, I've said it before as well, disappointing as it may be, it's still much better than not having anything at all.
I'm sure the emulator will improve over time.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Dude, every emulator EVER has started out bugged to shit and only capable of handling a sliver of potential titles. They tend to spend years maturing, and only do so with the support of many unpaid volunteers. Most of whom do not give a shit about the provenance of the code that's being emulated or the intellectual property rights of the original authors.
You can't replicate that process within a corporate environment without huge capital and resource investment. Investment that everyone knows vastly outstrips the potential return on that investment. Largely as a result of gray-market actors having decades worth of head-start in the field!
Look at the pricing structure to see how valuable (exploitable if you prefer) Sony thinks this "classics" market is! That's the reality.
Killer8
Member
Let's face it: most of this list is basically trash. No one is losing sleep over not being able to Dino Crisis 3 in 4K.
SkylineRKR
Member
I have a year of Now running at the price of Plus so I will play these, but it depends on improvements and content if I resub to Premium once its over.
Still, I do like Ape Escape a lot. Though I did own the NTSC classic on my PS3, and it played perfectly.
Still, I do like Ape Escape a lot. Though I did own the NTSC classic on my PS3, and it played perfectly.
DaGwaphics
Member
The rights to this software aren't in question though. Sony used an open source emulator for the classic unit, they could have paid for a license to one of the better emulators that already exists and had better results. Emulation is a gray area because of the game software (which obviously isn't going to be an issue here), Sony could certainly provide the features that exist anywhere else in their emulator. Hopefully they will keep working on it. Fingers crossed they at least go with the 30fps/60fps variants whenever possible in the US, we don't need all the languages for the most part.
DaGwaphics
Member
Now that Xbox is done with the enhanced BC program, I'd love it if they ported over a version of their OG Xbox emulator from 360 to XSX. They could even charge a small fee (I think there was a license fee to Nvidia here) and let it be an optional purchase. That thing was said to have supported almost everything if you had a modded 360 and edited the game list. The few things that didn't work, simply wouldn't work.
I guess might not be that much of a point to it, if disk drives don't have much of a life left on console, but I'm sure some users would use it. The OG Xbox hardware is getting quite old.
intbal
Member
No.
Your gaming tastes are your own.
intbal
Member
I'm not sure that would be a good/possible solution.
Those games were emulated as-is. No enhancements.
But, more importantly, Microsoft had to pay Nvidia for that emulator, which I'm sure they'd have to do again to bring it to a new system.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/nvidia-tech-licensed-for-xbox-360-backward-compatibility
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't know what any of that has to do with the emulator lol.
The PS3 had a PS1 emulator, PS Classics was PS1 emulation. This isn't Sony's first time doing PS1 emulation. The years of maturing isn't applicable like this is a first attempt.
Pricing structure of the subscription should not be an excuse for a lackluster output when freely available emulators do so much more.
Your points like "they have to legally source roms" makes no sense here. It's Sony, not a shady discord admin. If they can't legally source roms for games that were distributed on their systems, god help us.
01011001
Banned
emulator developers on PC, Xbox, Android etc. work for basically free or very low compensation over paypal tips and small patreons
yet they are better... there's no excuse for that
there's also no excuse for not having the choice between all the different regional versions. especially so when you look on the PS3 store where they HAVE the regional version on sale.
in fact, if you bougt a PS1 game on PS3 you will be able to download it on PS4/5 for no additional cost, yet on PS4/5 you don't get the same regional version but only the single one Sony offers.
furthermore their licensing system is so bad that it only works one way and not the other. so if you buy a PS1 game on PS3 that is also available on PS4/5 you can get that version too.
but if you buy the PS1 game on PS4/5 you do not get the PS3 classic version... that's just not in any way excusable
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DaGwaphics
Member
That's why I said it would need to be a paid software download (with whatever this license fee is passed on to the customer). Obviously the enhanced BC that they were doing is better, but if they are done with that I can see collectors getting a lot of use out of a straight emulator. Anything formally supported you'd want to play with the native compatibility via download, the emulator would be for Xbox disks just like the 360 - there wouldn't be any licensing issues there.
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InfiniteCombo
Banned
I agree. Haven't said anything about this but I've noticed in a few threads now,
adamsapple
brings up what seems a very reasonable point to me, yet he gets jumped on or triggers people massively. It says a lot not about him, but the people jumping on his case. Digital Foundry is a beloved/respected technical expert that is often referenced in this forum. The OP posted a video of DF's analysis of PS1/PSP emulation on PS5. I don't see what the big deal is.
GhostOfTsu
Banned
Ambassador Chandoog working overtime to downplay PS+
He jumped on the PS1 emulation concerns as soon as it was announced. He really found his war horse to spread FUD about the service 
The new VRR.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
While some will relish in it, Sony did fuck up here.Ambassador Chandoog working overtime to downplay PS+
The new VRR.
They need to do better with this emulation.
intbal
Member
Yeah, I'd be willing to pay for that, too.
But that assumes Nvidia would be willing to license it to Microsoft again.
TheGodfather07
Member
Oh well. I'm not interested in ps1 games anyway. Most of them have aged like milk. It's nice for nostalgia but to actually play through them? Nah .
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Aside from boosted res, the legacy system emulators sound like crap.
Unless game trials for a small number of games, PC streaming and playing old classics from 20 years ago is a must have, just sub to the Extra tier which still gets you PS4/PS5 games.
Unless game trials for a small number of games, PC streaming and playing old classics from 20 years ago is a must have, just sub to the Extra tier which still gets you PS4/PS5 games.
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I don't understand why there's no changes between PS4 and PS5 when it comes to PS2 emulation, surely a res boost to proper 4k was possible? As for PS1 emulation, I've said it in the other thread "Modern" should've included things like texture correction and Z-fighting fixes like Duck Station to give it an actual purpose, what good is slightly altered gamma?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
When I saw the videos I didn't get it. All the emulated Tekken 2 video snippets looked dark and orangey.
Agent X
Member
I agree. Haven't said anything about this but I've noticed in a few threads now,
Digital Foundry is a beloved/respected technical expert that is often referenced in this forum. The OP posted a video of DF's analysis of PS1/PSP emulation on PS5. I don't see what the big deal is.
I think it's perfectly reasonable, and in fact is actually welcome at this point in time. This is just the start of the program, and it's good for us to know all of the good and bad aspects that Digital Foundry has highlighted. We can have a productive discussion about it. I just wish D dark10x (John Linneman) was still active here.
I remain hopeful that Sony will see this video, and perhaps become aware of their fans' reactions and feedback. This will give them the opportunity to improve their emulator, which is thankfully one of the benefits of a modern Internet-connected game console.
I'm struggling to see the point of it as well, "Modern" is just a gamma shift/contrast shift which, ...why? Really do hope it's a placeholder and they take inspiration from Emulators to go all out for that setting. And improve the CRT shader too, throw in some CRT Glow like scanlines such as "hylian-glow" which has a good impact on the image for older titles.
splattered
Member
Maybe this is their actual plan... Make performance so terrible that fans will say ok yeah we don't want bc, it sucks. Makes no sense why they'd screw it up this bad, I just can't believe this wasn't planned out better wtf
Little Chicken
Member
It feels like this entire thing was rushed out. Should've let it cook for a while.
Alphagear
Member
Yes looks like it. I expect them to improve things with time via updates.
