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[jigglet]

Ok I have to get this off my chest. For decades I remember hearing PC gamers (I am a PC gamer so I'm not trying to create some PC vs console war shit) say this every time someone suggested a console port. I always thought - what the fuck am I not seeing? It's a third person view game, you walk around and press buttons. Am I going fucking mad? I always felt even the most braindead person could conceive of a very functional control scheme. It never needed some stroke of innovative genius to figure it out.

I get FPS, RTS, strategy...all that shit, yeah I get it. If you say they suck on console, I can see it. But I've always been really confused about what made PC gamers back then think this would be impossible to port to consoles. I didn't just see this a few times here and there - it was repeated over and over universally every time the question came up.

Please enlighten me, 90's PC gamers. What the fuck made Diablo impossible to imagine playing on a controller?

 

[Jennings]

Targeted spells and abilities and rows of keyboard hotkeys on the toolbar/hotkey bar. Targeted abilities are still a problem even in super refined experiences like Diablo 3, but most stuff is directional or AE alleviating this problen in modern ARPGs. Plus modern ARPGs like Diablo 3 limit the number of skills used equipped at once to 3 or 4. And even though you don't need to click the mouse a billion times a second nowadays thanks to auto-attack, it would have been tiresome on controller back then.

 

[dreamstation]

Diablo ain't third person. It's isometric.

 

[Codeblew]

Some games are obviously better with a mouse but Diablo is not one of them (IMO of course). Graphics wise, diablo games are nothing special but gfx isn't everything.

 

[Gandih42]

Not sure how much it'd apply to the first Diablo, but the ability to precisely target abilities at a mouse cursor allows for some difference in enemy, encounter, and difficulty design. I think a mouse gives you full control of the space around you in a way aiming abilities with a stick wouldn't.

Although dunno if that's what these hardcore PC purists are about. Obviously the controls can be adapted well for consoles, Diablo 3 is awesome as a console game. Concessions or not.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Remember playing castlevania 64 on n64!

Me neither cause that shit sucked. None of the 90s machines could handle diablo. People had bugs with shadowrun on snes. Genesis had 3 buttons unless you had the fancy controller. No one had a neo geo and if they did games cost 1/2 of what the system did.

Legacy of kain is super muddy and hard to tekk what is happening sometimes. Diablo would have been a mess

 

[Crownjo]

Diablo on PlayStation was pretty decent.

 

[dreamstation]

I haven't played D2:R on console but only having one skill selected at a time kinda sucks even on PC. I imagine that wouldn't port well to console? Same goes for specific targeting for ranged/aoe spells and skills. Not saying it doesn't work on console but that doesn't make it the best way to play. The roll on the console version of D3 was pretty cool though.

 

[kanjobazooie]

Never.

 

[Sentenza]

I mean, they had to substantially change the way the game played to make Diablo 3 more console-friendly.

And it's not a third person game, anyway.

Never.

It was also trash.

 

[jigglet]

I mean, they had to substantially change the way the game played to make Diablo 3 more console-friendly.

Yes but my point is it didn't require some unfathomable innovation in UI design to achieve it. It wasn't anywhere near the same level as "how do we make FPS work on console" (which I would argue still hasn't been solved). The way people used to talk about this was like it was some inconceivable problem that you were stupid for even contemplating.

 

[SCB3]

Yes but my point is it didn't require some unfathomable innovation in UI design to achieve it. It wasn't anywhere near the same level as "how do we make FPS work on console" (which I would argue still hasn't been solved).

I wanna hear that arguement, FPS on Consoles cannot be done better imo than what we got with CoD4 other than needing an elite controller for the added paddles to not take you're thumb off the stick

Also MMO's can be done on Consoles, FFXiV being a perfect example, if they can be done, Diablo is not and have never been an issue, I've played all 3 on consoles fine to Torment X or whatever it was at that time (not played D2:R yet)

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Well remember, even back then, people mainly used the mouse for movement and attacking in Diablo, not the keyboard. Plus all the keyboard shortcuts for potions. Nobody thought up the action wheel yet on consoles. So probably that is why, like how does a gamepad replace a mouse. For singleplayer, we've seen that strategies work too. I thought long ago it could never work but guess what, I played Red Alert on PS1 in LAN with a friend and it was great. Competitively, yeah its impossible on anything but PC.

 

[RoadHazard]

Diablo ain't third person. It's isometric.

I would argue that given what the term "third person" actually means an isometric point of view is even MORE third person than over the shoulder.

 

[Mokus]

I played Diablo 3 on PC and PS4, and on console the control it's more of compromise compared to PC. It is still great port and I got the platinum for the game but it feels better with mouse and keyboard.

 

[Griffon]

What are you talking about OP?

Diablo 1 had a pretty good PSX port.
The Diablo 2 Remaster works perfectly with a gamepad (arguably better than with mouse/kb).

 

[nkarafo]

Diablo is a pretty simple game by PC games standards. I imagine it plays well enough on consoles.

RTS not so much though... Yeah, i know there were a bunch of ports on PS1 and N64. But these were completely handicapped. Maybe if you never played them on PC you might had some enjoyment out of them. But coming from a PC, these were borderline unplayable. Not sure how more modern ones played on later consoles. I can't imagine playing something like this with anything other than a KB/Mouse, no matter what.

Also MMO's can be done on Consoles, FFXiV being a perfect example

How simple is that game?

I remember playing WoW 10 years ago and i was a below average player in 2 vs 2 arenas because i had less than 10 different hotkeys to shuffle around. I only had 5 or 6 and the extra time i needed to click on the others was enough to cost me a lot of matches against much faster opponents. I can't imagine this game being playable on a console, no matter how smart the control design would end up being. Maybe a slow, handicapped version that would have to be console players only otherwise PC players would destroy them all.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I’m one of those weirdos that vastly prefers Diablo on console or with a controller. Diablo 3 and Resurrected are so much easier for me to play that way.

 

[Alexios]

I mean, same reason as the games that you accept like RTS or whatever, cos it's all point and click click clickety click and you have all those spells and skills you aim on crowds and what not strategizing their placement and use by your cursor. Naturally if you make it play very differently, then sure, it can be put on console (as the original game was ages before Diablo 3) but then it's just a different game. It's not like they couldn't make it an action game that you move around with wasd and aim all over the place with the mouse like a twin stick shooter on PC back then, that wasn't the kind of game it was trying to be, yet is exactly the kind of game the remasters/later games try to be and work. And you can prefer that game, I too never cared for the clickety click click style of action RPG personally, but it's undeniably a different kind of experience that isn't as good on a gamepad. Arguably when this was first said, decades ago as you admit, the console controllers available at the time weren't even capable of having a twin stick shooter style game in a good way anyway (yet Diablo 1 was still ported lol), at best you'd get Robotron with using dpad + 4 buttons.

And as for 4X games, Civilization II was pretty damn amazing on the PlayStation and really much closer to the intended gameplay than any console Diablo so I guess I disagree on that, they are much more workable than any such ARPG (again without significant changes to gameplay and feel).

 

[SCB3]

Diablo is a pretty simple game by PC games standards. I imagine it plays well enough on consoles.

RTS not so much though... Yeah, i know there were a bunch of ports on PS1 and N64. But these were completely handicapped. Maybe if you never played them on PC you might had some enjoyment out of them. But coming from a PC, these were borderline unplayable. Not sure how more modern ones played on later consoles. I can't imagine playing something like this with anything other than a KB/Mouse, no matter what.



How simple is that game?

I remember playing WoW 10 years ago and i was a below average player in 2 vs 2 arenas because i had less than 10 different hotkeys to shuffle around. I only had 5 or 6 and the extra time i needed to click on the others was enough to cost me a lot of matches against much faster opponents. I can't imagine this game being playable on a console, no matter how smart the control design would end up being. Maybe a slow, handicapped version that would have to be console players only otherwise PC players would destroy them all.

I cannot speak for WoW as I've never played past the first couple of hours, but the controller set up for FFXiV is really good and you can be very quick with it, basically you have 16 Hotkeys availible and can press LB/RB for a another selection of hotkeys, using the the triggers to select a selection of 8 and pressing one of the d-pad buttons or a face button to do the action, it gets to be really intuitive

As for RTS, I played most of the Command and Conquer games on console, they seemed fine, but yea M&KB is the way to go for them and 4X games, I could not image something like Stellaris or Crusader Kings on console being fun to control

 

[SeraphJan]

Let's be fair here, mouse and keyboard is still a superior way to play Diablo, even if not by much

 

[jigglet]

Let's be fair here, mouse and keyboard is still a superior way to play Diablo, even if not by much

Again I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing this stance that it was utterly implausible to port to console - not that it would be hard or that it would be sub-optimal, but it would be pure shit. I remember the sort of crap PC gamers would lay on console gamers for even asking the question like they were fucking stupid for even raising the topic.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Diablo 3 on the Switch is good!

 

[SeraphJan]

Again I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing this stance that it was utterly implausible to port to console - not that it would be hard or that it would be sub-optimal, but it would be pure shit. I remember the sort of crap PC gamers would lay on console gamers for even asking the question like they were fucking stupid for even raising the topic.

Nothing is impossible, even RTS is portable to console, but the user experiences are very different

 

[jigglet]

Nothing is impossible, even RTS is portable to console, but the user experiences are very different

i mean you're just repeating what i'm saying

 

[Skifi28]

People will use any excuse to justify their bias. "Game X can never work on console, game Y will never come to PC".

In the end everything can work anywhere if the developers want it to.

 

[crackajack]

I was a while pretty much PC only, but I never got really good with keyboard controls (when possible I play with a controller on PC too). It is okay for most games, but never really comfy and intuitive. So better is subjective. I am probably average with either but feel much worse with m&k.

Diablo was certainly always something that I immediately thought as a possible twin stick shooter like experience. I barely use shortcuts on PC anyway. So moving clickidiclick to two sticks and some buttons, I don't have to search for, would have been easily be possible always. And while I don't know about Diablo on console, Sacred 3 was pretty much what I expected.
Similar with games like Anno (or Total War). They might not be considered perfect for consoles, but Sim City on the SNES was already alright and at least with wiimote and Move the required control changes would have been minimal (and at least with wii that was the default controller). Never understood why those genres almost never got ported and subsequently of course this crowd never considered a console for those.

The master race is often very odd in their superiority complex.
I remember when Sony presented their checkerboarding for the PS4Pro I immediately thought that or something like it will also be huge for PC gaming and was laughed at for writing the prediction. I mean it's kind of free performance. Who wouldn't want that? A few years later we have DLSS and other stuff and sure some weirdos still act like faux resolution pumps and inserted frames are evil and should be banished, but in reality most tech that has a benefit for console is also good for PC and vice versa.

PC and console are anyway today much closer than ever. From their hw, ie more easy ports, and I mean a controller with all button combinations is barely different from what is most of the time used on a keyboard. Which games seriously require more than 10-15 buttons which any controller offers?

 

[WalterSobchak]

Never.

I love and still own this game. Co-op is a blast ! The graphics are for sure a bit muddy but the fun factor is there. Saves/loads also take a long time.

Doing a co-op hell run is no joke. Make sure to save often .

 

[Erebus]

Never.

Good times. It required almost a whole memory card for saves.

 

[poppabk]

Nearly every game that has made the transition has required compromises. The more complex the game the more sacrifices are required and the more PC gamers will object.
If you don't recognize my avatar it's because after 20 odd years and a 'spiritual successor' move the TA/SupCom series came to a crashing halt with the console friendly Supreme Commander 2.

 

[Kabelly]

Yes but my point is it didn't require some unfathomable innovation in UI design to achieve it. It wasn't anywhere near the same level as "how do we make FPS work on console" (which I would argue still hasn't been solved). The way people used to talk about this was like it was some inconceivable problem that you were stupid for even contemplating.

FPS on console has been solved. it's called gyro aim.

but I shan't detail.

 

[Soltype]

They put it on consoles, but the games are worse.I never thought they would compromise the quality of the game for a bigger user base, boy was I wrong.

 

[DragoonWalker]

Diablo on PlayStation was pretty decent.

It was also trash.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Never.

Yup this came out on PSX just a year after the PC version and was praised for its controls. I don’t remember any controversy about this.

Now if you’re talking about Diablo 3 IIRC for the console they actually reduced the number of enemies on screen at once to make it easier to select your target

 

[DavidGzz]

I owned Diablo on PC and PSX and even though it was inferior I still played the hell out of it on PSX and it didn't even have analog sticks lmao.

 

[DavidGzz]

Plus modern ARPGs like Diablo 3 limit the number of skills used equipped at once to 3 or 4.

You have more than enough buttons for skills on console. I'm pretty sure D3 had 7. 4 face buttons, triggers, and one bumper.

 

[Mephisto40]

Controllers use to have far less buttons and functionality on them, which was part of he problem

 

[Damigos]

Diablo actually works so much better on consoles

 

[MarkMe2525]

Ok I have to get this off my chest. For decades I remember hearing PC gamers (I am a PC gamer so I'm not trying to create some PC vs console war shit) say this every time someone suggested a console port. I always thought - what the fuck am I not seeing? It's a third person view game, you walk around and press buttons. Am I going fucking mad? I always felt even the most braindead person could conceive of a very functional control scheme. It never needed some stroke of innovative genius to figure it out.

I get FPS, RTS, strategy...all that shit, yeah I get it. If you say they suck on console, I can see it. But I've always been really confused about what made PC gamers back then think this would be impossible to port to consoles. I didn't just see this a few times here and there - it was repeated over and over universally every time the question came up.

Please enlighten me, 90's PC gamers. What the fuck made Diablo impossible to imagine playing on a controller?

That's odd because the first time I played diablo it was on a PS1.

 

[Lasha]

I beat red alert 2 on PSX and played a shitload of Starcraft on N64. I'm not sure that there was ever a question of games being possible on console even back then. The common view was that the ports were inferior to PC which is pretty true due to the poor controls and other constraints.

 

[AJUMP23]

I think if you can port RTS games to console you can figure out Diablo.

 

[Wildebeest]

I suppose that when Diablo game out, there were already grid based real time roguelikes with digital controls, such as Gauntlet. What made it feel new was the "skill based" combat of clicking on things with the mouse. If you don't have a mouse, you can easily make a game like Diablo, but you can't make what people thought was unique and innovative about Diablo. It seems absolutely mind-bendingly crazy right now that anyone might value new experiences or excellence in gaming, but there you have it.

 

[DryvBy]

Ok I have to get this off my chest. For decades I remember hearing PC gamers (I am a PC gamer so I'm not trying to create some PC vs console war shit) say this every time someone suggested a console port. I always thought - what the fuck am I not seeing? It's a third person view game, you walk around and press buttons. Am I going fucking mad? I always felt even the most braindead person could conceive of a very functional control scheme. It never needed some stroke of innovative genius to figure it out.

I get FPS, RTS, strategy...all that shit, yeah I get it. If you say they suck on console, I can see it. But I've always been really confused about what made PC gamers back then think this would be impossible to port to consoles. I didn't just see this a few times here and there - it was repeated over and over universally every time the question came up.

Please enlighten me, 90's PC gamers. What the fuck made Diablo impossible to imagine playing on a controller?

Diablo 1 is on consoles though. I remember hearing this and saying the same thing. It played better on PC, but it's fine on console. Early RTS without a mouse is awful and the only one I felt deserved the "X can't be on console".

 

[HTK]

As someone who played the original D2 on PC back in the day, now I can't imagine playing Diablo on my PC. I can't wait for Diablo IV on my OLED/PS5 setup.

I think originally the UX/UI might have been intimidating or trying to figure it out. I think it was a PC game first and back then there was that mentality for sure.

 

[jaysius]

It's still true they destroyed Diablo 3 so that it'd work on consoles and the game practically plays itself with no brains what so ever required.

Hopefully 4 goes back to the roots and brings some fun back.

 

[rodrigolfp]

What the fuck made Diablo impossible to imagine playing on a controller?

Proper Diablo still doesn't exist with controller, afaik. Interface/inventory management is shitty and they put "auto aim" for controllers even for melee attacks. This stuff is not Diablo.

the game practically plays itself with no brains

Lets not be so hyperbolic...

 

[chixdiggit]

Diablo actually works so much better on consoles

Explain yourself.

 

[rodrigolfp]

using the the triggers to select a selection of 8 and pressing one of the d-pad buttons or a face button to do the action, it gets to be really intuitive

Intuitive but shitty claw grip to me not to lose movement or camera (which are too retarded and imprecise on a stick, imagine Warrior leap and ranged area skills on a stick ) controls while using the skills.

 

[Three]

Mouse and keyboard evangelism probably. Nothing beats a mouse for pointing at things and a keyboard for number of commands.

If you want my opinion in an ideal world FPS and RTS, especially RTS devs should really try to make their games PSVR2 compatible. Depending on how well it works you can use eye tracking to target effortlessly. Have a wide view of everything and look and zoom effortlessly with simple head movements with a tabletop view. Would be pretty awesome IMO.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

pc gamers from the 90s btfo, how will they ever recover