Support NeoGAF

[C- Warrior]

There's a thread going on at the PS3-IGN boards quoting PSM:

No standard 1080i (or 1080p) support: Most games will apparently run at 720p; use of 1080i and 1080p is only at the developer's discretion. All games should have support for 480p and 480i for gamers without HDTVs.

But some people were saying Sony stated this a long time ago and it's nothing new, yet everyone who seemingly responded to the thread acted as if it was "OMG teh new good/bad breaking news."

Good as in it's always 'good' not to force developers.

Bad in that, there could be a few 480 made games. That is to say Sony isn't saying 720p is the minimum, they have no miminum--developers can do what they want, even standard resolutions... Although I don't see that as an issue, I think everyone here knew that majority PS3 games will be under 720p, and I'm pretty sure that'll be the reality of it as well.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

high-budget games will still have at least 720p. It is all considered part of being a high-budget game. The low budget games will be able to be developed at standard resolutions.

MGS4, GTA4, GT5, et al will all be at least 720p. Shitty budget Army Men-esque games will probably be 480i/p because it means devs can spend less to develop the game.

 

[gofreak]

PS3 supports the standards: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p

Devs take their pick.

If you're asking if Sony is enforcing a minimum native resolution for PS3 games, the answer (I think) is that we don't know. I think it could go either way.

I think 720p will be the common case - the choice of most developers - enforced or not.

edit - and yeah, as below as dark10x says, all games regardless of resolution will have to be playable on sdtvs. That's no different than the situation on X360. The hardware should take care of that, but devs will have to be mindful of text and HUDs and the like.

 

[dark10x]

I don't think that quote is suggesting that games will be released only with 480i/p support, but rather, all games will offer those options for people who are unable to use 720p and above.

 

[C- Warrior]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

I'd imagine many 1st party Sony made games would support (or rather--try to) 1080p.

Heck, most Japanese made PS2 games didn't even support progressive scan. So I really don't see the big guns like MGS4 doing anything more than 720p, but again--apparently it seems that's "the obvious" from the posts above.

 

[Beer Monkey]

If you believe the 360 haters, every PS3 game will run 1920x1080p at 60fps with full effects. :lol

In all seriousness, this is all the more reason to get a 720p set today and a 1080p set in four or five years. It is likely that most games in this generation will be optimized for 720p. Run them native, you won't get scaling artifacts and you won't get lag.

 

[dark10x]

If you believe the 360 haters, every PS3 game will run 1920x1080p at 60fps with full effects. :lol

Who exactly has ever said that? I'm serious too. Quote me the peron (or people) that have said such a thing...

I'm sure many games WILL be able to do that, though...but certainly not all.

 

[Nerevar]

Who exactly has ever said that? I'm serious too. Quote me the peron (or people) that have said such a thing...

I'm sure many games WILL be able to do that, though...but certainly not all.

unless Sony implements HDMI 1.2 on the PS3, that will be completely impossible for a digital signal ...

You're going to see at best 30 Hz.

 

[BirdySky]

Are any of these games likely to require HD? I mean I'm not going to pick up a copy of MGS4 with a '720+' sticker on it am I? (SDTV Man here.)

 

[gofreak]

Are any of these games likely to require HD? I mean I'm not going to pick up a copy of MGS4 with a '720+' sticker on it am I? (SDTV Man here.)

It'd be commercial suicide, so I highly doubt you'll see that happen. A large majority of people are still on SDTV. I mean, heck, the proportions are such that Nintendo is banking on it entirely.

 

[Nerevar]

Are any of these games likely to require HD? I mean I'm not going to pick up a copy of MGS4 with a '720+' sticker on it am I? (SDTV Man here.)

no, both xbox360 and PS3 will have internal scalers built in that will perfectly scale the output to whatever resolution your TV can handle. So you'll set it to "480i" or whatever and it will only output an image at that resolution.

 

[C- Warrior]

no, both xbox360 and PS3 will have internal scalers built in that will perfectly scale the output to whatever resolution your TV can handle. So you'll set it to "480i" or whatever and it will only output an image at that resolution.

Yeah, the quote isn't saying anyone is screwed over. It's just saying Sony isn't mandating all games to run natively at 1080p or something (which woudl be fuckin dumb, no offense to 1080p adopters, but there are very very very few people right now that have 1080p capable TV's)

Rather, Sony is leaving the option open to the developer to which resolution they want to natively run. But as others have stated (and which was known for quite some time) most developers will be going with 720p--and IMO, that's the sweet spot. It's nothing absurd, a good chunk of HD owners can do it (or at the least upscale it). 1080p is just dumb, I don't think it's wise for devs to do develop games under that --too much risk for the reward--

Isn't Heavenly Sword the only announced PS3 game confirmed to be targetted for 1080p...

 

[Dr_Cogent]

So wait, we don't even know for sure if Sony will force devs to support 480i?

no, both xbox360 and PS3 will have internal scalers built in that will perfectly scale the output to whatever resolution your TV can handle. So you'll set it to "480i" or whatever and it will only output an image at that resolution.

Where does it say that? You simply can't scale a 16:9 image to 4:3 and have it look good - unless you add black bars to the top and bottom of the screen.

 

[Nerevar]

So wait, we don't even know for sure if Sony will force devs to support 480i?

What do you mean? The ps3 itself will control the resolution that the game is output at. Devs don't have to worry about "supporting" any one resolution - they just need to worry about which resolution they will render the game internally.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

What do you mean? The ps3 itself will control the resolution that the game is output at. Devs don't have to worry about "supporting" any one resolution - they just need to worry about which resolution they will render the game internally.

So your saying that if the image is 16:9, then we get black bars at the top and bottom.

Where is there documentation on what you are claiming? I want to read it.

 

[gofreak]

Where does it say that? You simply can't scale a 16:9 image to 4:3 and have it look good - unless you add black bars to the top and bottom of the screen.

AFAIK, that's the plan, at least on X360..the dev just has to ensure their text or interface etc. is useable at the different resolutions.

You can be sure all PS3 games and all X360 games will be playable on SDTVs. Whatever resolution the devs pick, their game will be playable at all resolutions up to that, I think. The native resolution is just the one they pick, though.

 

[dark10x]

So your saying that if the image is 16:9, then we get black bars at the top and bottom.

Where is there documentation on what you are claiming? I want to read it.

Err, yeah, that's pretty much right. I know of no documentation, but do you really think it will be otherwise? I knew X360 will display 16:9 images with black bars on SDTV sets and I'm sure PS3 will do the same.

 

[golem]

im sure the devs could support 4:3 if they arent being lazy... different aspect ratio support is in an increasing number of pc games.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Err, yeah, that's pretty much right. I know of no documentation, but do you really think it will be otherwise? I knew X360 will display 16:9 images with black bars on SDTV sets and I'm sure PS3 will do the same.

I don't think it would be otherwise, but I am fearful of my output looking like shit because I don't have an HDTV.

 

[C- Warrior]

Letterboxed on a 4:3 set won't make it look like shit dude.

A game that looks good is a game that looks good.

And personally, if I had a 4:3 set, I'd rather play it in letterbox and experience the game in it's full glory (that is to say the view n' all) instead of chopping off the sides and getting fullscreen.

 

[xexex]

1080p is not going to be commonplace until Xbox3 ~ PS4

there will be large performance disadvantages for any PS3 game running at 1080p

 

[Beer Monkey]

And personally, if I had a 4:3 set, I'd rather play it in letterbox and experience the game in it's full glory (that is to say the view n' all) instead of chopping off the sides and getting fullscreen.

They wouldn't have to chop the sides, they could simply open up the top and bottom for all game-rendered action (go ahead and letterbox the FMV as many games do already).

 

[Zaptruder]

Of any improvement that has been scaled back, or has the possibility of been scaled back, this one fills me most with a sense of relief...

as opposed to dread.

I was kinda stressing about where the hell I'd get a 1080p panel for the PS3 launch... haha.

Bring on the Sharp Aquos!

 

[crunker99]

The sharp aquos look great but are a ton of cash, 1080p really isnt that fantastic and nothing supports it yet.

 

[Kleegamefan]

unless Sony implements HDMI 1.2 on the PS3, that will be completely impossible for a digital signal ...

You're going to see at best 30 Hz.

Since an SACD DSD audio stream will have to be passed digitally on PLAYSTATION 3, you will be seeing HDMI 1.3 or better because there is no firewire out and that is the only other connector capable of passing DSD digitally...

Current PS3 prototypes have HDMI "type A" connectors but will have to switch to HDMI "type B" dual link, especially since they are supporting Blu-ray...IIRC, there are no shipping Type B HDMI connectors available yet, which is probably why SCEI just went with the availabe type A connectors at E3...

HDMI 1.3 or firewire is also required for Dolby Digital Lossless (new name for Meridian Lossless Packing) so theres that to consider too...

 

[Fafalada]

So your saying that if the image is 16:9, then we get black bars at the top and bottom.
Where is there documentation on what you are claiming? I want to read it.

On MS side, 16:9 is mandated - native mode. 4:3 support is left up to the developer - if they choose to implement a real 4:3 mode you'll get one, if not, the scaler will do the job and you'll get black bars.

Afaik Sony doesn't mandate anything.

 

[januswon]

Everything is smoke unless SCE officially announced PS3 spec and the support on HDTV

e.g. xbox360 spec and support on HDTV like this
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm

 

[Miburou]

I wish they'd mandate that all games run at 60fps.