gnarkill bill
Member
We need some Molyneuxness in here.besada said:
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Dyack: "NeoGAF...I would say is probably the worst forum." Response.
- Thread starter EviLore
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Andronicus
Banned
davidjaffe said:Well I don't lurk, I post, thanks very much
And my take on it is:
a- I feel bad for the SK team because it sucks to work hard and get poor reviews.
b- I feel bad for Dennis- even tho I don't know him beyond a few emails over the years- because clearly he is a passionate man who is having to deal with two tough situations right now (the mediocre reviews of a game he clearly loves, as well as the situation of being made out to be a bad guy amongst the core fans he is- one assumes- trying to please). He may also be dealing with a third tough situation if the sales of his game are poor.
All that said, my life experience shows that often times, failure is a great thing because it allows you to either learn from mistakes and recommit to your passions OR it allows you to realize that you are not really on the path you need to be on in the first place. So I think, for Dennis, this will end up being a great situation where he's able to reassess what he wants. But again, I don't know him. That's just how I would deal with it.
As for posting here, I still plan on doing it. I still plan on defending myself when someone attacks me without clear reason. But I don't tend to come here to promote our games. I mean, I always answer questions about them and correct people if they have some info on our games that is not correct, but I don't look at Neogaf as a PR tool. I look at it as a place to mingle with fellow fans of games we all love and to meet folks who consider themselves fans of what we do. And I love that. I love neogaf, always have.
As for being more influential, well no offense, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If TOO HUMAN had been getting 97% scores and selling great, even if Dennis had insulted some of you guys 1000 times worse, it would not matter if you not only banned him but changed the name to NEO-FUCK-YOU-DYACK-GAF (dude, fuck off, I get PAID to be creative, I ain't giving it away for free!!!!...I mean, but if all that had occurred but the game rocked to many people, this would not make a difference. And frankly it still won't, from a nuts and bolts sales standpoint. Too Human will sell how well it sells based on many things. Dennis being a current 'enemy' of Neogaf is not one of them.
Not to say sites like this- and this one in particular- can NOT be influential but I tend to think the influence of hard core sites like this help bring a more obscure game up into the more semi-hard core consciousness- which in turns- will help sales. I do not see it working in the opposite direction.
But we'll see...just my take.
David
Look, there are people on neogaf who don't care for me and sometimes it's warranted but other times, not so much.
The Fucking MAN has spoken.
skip said:
dude you cant win this one.
seems a lot of posters are fanning the flames to start some fabricated 1up vs. Gaf thing now.
let us defend you guys, and just back away before someone else misinturprets something you say and the 1up vs Gaf meme starts. You guys just did your job and you owe nothing to NeoGaf.
besada said:
I would agree with you if 1up was wholly represented by Shane in that Dyack podcast but Garnett stood up to Dyack and quickly became one of my favorite podcasters for doing so. I don't agree with all the hate 1up seems to generate. They have some of the best editors on their staff in the gaming industry imo. Being a long time listener to not just 1up yours but retronauts & GFW radio, they have a really down to earth bunch of staffers who aren't afraid to voice their opinions. I'm starting to think that some people here are using the Dyack fiasco to take potshots at 1up.
TuSeiSkeefoso
Member
besada said:
Oh, get off your GAF high horse. Are you insane? GAF is made of up Hardcore Gamers. You really think that Too Human's sale's will be affected because of what was happening on this site? It will have ZERO effect on sales. This site is OK. It's not the be all and end all of the gaming community, really.
jluedtke said:
Have you ever been in/worked for the enthusiast media? Never underestimate the developer's and publisher's proclivity for punative action in the face of unflattering press.
People have been canned for less, massive ad campaigns have been scrapped for less. Such is the dilemma when you find yourself in the unenviable position of critiquing the products of your financial benefactor.
SlasherJPC
Banned
TuSeiSkeefoso said:
You can't tell this to a elitist community. They won't listen. Its ok though. Life will go on after Dennis and Too Human have come to pass.
While I always believed that to be the case, I'm glad to hear that you visit the site for reasons outside of self-promotion.davidjaffe said:
Of course, I see nothing wrong with pimping your wares on occasion. I think most people here are smart enough to recognize the difference between someone posting for fun and someone posting with an actual goal relating to a product in mind. It's pretty obvious that you (along with many other developers) post here for information and a bit of fun.Honestly, I believe that the majority of NeoGAF would have embraced the game had it turned out to be something truly great. There have been plenty of examples of AAA games that had poor initial showings. Heck, Gears of War received a LOT of negative attention early on from many folks (including myself), but it is a highly regarded game series nowadays. Upon release, those who had previously slammed early builds of the game turned around and enjoyed the final product. I'm positive that the same would have occured with Too Human regardless of what Denis had posted.As for being more influential, well no offense, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If TOO HUMAN had been getting 97% scores and selling great, even if Dennis had insulted some of you guys 1000 times worse, it would not matter if you not only banned him but changed the name to NEO-FUCK-YOU-DYACK-GAF (dude, fuck off, I get PAID to be creative, I ain't giving it away for free!!!!
Of course, you're quite right about the impact a forum like this would have on actual sales. Any impact NeoGAF would have on sales would be absolutely minimal, I believe. It isn't going to dictate the success of Too Human or any other game.
Reason +1davidjaffe said:Well I don't lurk, I post, thanks very much
And my take on it is:
a- I feel bad for the SK team because it sucks to work hard and get poor reviews.
b- I feel bad for Dennis- even tho I don't know him beyond a few emails over the years- because clearly he is a passionate man who is having to deal with two tough situations right now (the mediocre reviews of a game he clearly loves, as well as the situation of being made out to be a bad guy amongst the core fans he is- one assumes- trying to please). He may also be dealing with a third tough situation if the sales of his game are poor.
All that said, my life experience shows that often times, failure is a great thing because it allows you to either learn from mistakes and recommit to your passions OR it allows you to realize that you are not really on the path you need to be on in the first place. So I think, for Dennis, this will end up being a great situation where he's able to reassess what he wants. But again, I don't know him. That's just how I would deal with it.
As for posting here, I still plan on doing it. I still plan on defending myself when someone attacks me without clear reason. But I don't tend to come here to promote our games. I mean, I always answer questions about them and correct people if they have some info on our games that is not correct, but I don't look at Neogaf as a PR tool. I look at it as a place to mingle with fellow fans of games we all love and to meet folks who consider themselves fans of what we do. And I love that. I love neogaf, always have.
As for being more influential, well no offense, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If TOO HUMAN had been getting 97% scores and selling great, even if Dennis had insulted some of you guys 1000 times worse, it would not matter if you not only banned him but changed the name to NEO-FUCK-YOU-DYACK-GAF (dude, fuck off, I get PAID to be creative, I ain't giving it away for free!!!!
Not to say sites like this- and this one in particular- can NOT be influential but I tend to think the influence of hard core sites like this help bring a more obscure game up into the more semi-hard core consciousness- which in turn- will help sales. I do not see it working in the opposite direction.
But we'll see...just my take.
David
Thanks Dave.
crowphoenix
Banned
besada said:
I hope other developers feel the same and stay here. I don't want this situation to have given Gaf a negative image with developers.
cleveridea
Member
wow, Too Human has entertained me far more than I expected :lol I guess being 'For' worked out in the end
Jamesfrom818
Banned
And this is why I read GAF.
Woffls
Member
How can we establish just how much of an effect GAF is having on Too Human? It is completely unquantifiable, and therefore impossible to tell what effect GAF is really having. But if you think the biggest gaming forum on the internet, where gamers, critics, observers and developers all discuss or 'lurk, isn't going to have an impact on this game at all then I have to strongly disagree with you.
It may not be directly, and it might be insignificant, but we can't tell, and to contest that GAF has absolutely no effect on the rest of the industry is short sighted, and perhaps a bit naive.
It may not be directly, and it might be insignificant, but we can't tell, and to contest that GAF has absolutely no effect on the rest of the industry is short sighted, and perhaps a bit naive.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Jaffe!
typhonsentra said:
Get your story straight, Garnett listened, called him out, and put an end to what could have cont'd on to be the longest rant / podcast in history. That's how you handle an interview without turning the raging bull in your direction. That interview could have gone so much worse for 1up if they didn't careful mind their opinions, and with longterm effects.
You guys screw up here and the worst you get is banned..
Those guys screw up and they lose their jobs.
leesmapman
Member
davidjaffe
The Fucking MAN.
(Today, 07:30 PM)
:lol
The Fucking MAN.
(Today, 07:30 PM)
:lol
davidjaffe said:Well I don't lurk, I post, thanks very much
And my take on it is:
a- I feel bad for the SK team because it sucks to work hard and get poor reviews.
b- I feel bad for Dennis- even tho I don't know him beyond a few emails over the years- because clearly he is a passionate man who is having to deal with two tough situations right now (the mediocre reviews of a game he clearly loves, as well as the situation of being made out to be a bad guy amongst the core fans he is- one assumes- trying to please). He may also be dealing with a third tough situation if the sales of his game are poor.
All that said, my life experience shows that often times, failure is a great thing because it allows you to either learn from mistakes and recommit to your passions OR it allows you to realize that you are not really on the path you need to be on in the first place. So I think, for Dennis, this will end up being a great situation where he's able to reassess what he wants. But again, I don't know him. That's just how I would deal with it.
As for posting here, I still plan on doing it. I still plan on defending myself when someone attacks me without clear reason. But I don't tend to come here to promote our games. I mean, I always answer questions about them and correct people if they have some info on our games that is not correct, but I don't look at Neogaf as a PR tool. I look at it as a place to mingle with fellow fans of games we all love and to meet folks who consider themselves fans of what we do. And I love that. I love neogaf, always have.
As for being more influential, well no offense, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If TOO HUMAN had been getting 97% scores and selling great, even if Dennis had insulted some of you guys 1000 times worse, it would not matter if you not only banned him but changed the name to NEO-FUCK-YOU-DYACK-GAF (dude, fuck off, I get PAID to be creative, I ain't giving it away for free!!!!
Not to say sites like this- and this one in particular- can NOT be influential but I tend to think the influence of hard core sites like this help bring a more obscure game up into the more semi-hard core consciousness- which in turn- will help sales. I do not see it working in the opposite direction.
But we'll see...just my take.
David
I like smart people. This is how you do things, not instigate fights with a goddamn gaming community.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
davidjaffe said:Well I don't lurk, I post, thanks very much
And my take on it is:
a- I feel bad for the SK team because it sucks to work hard and get poor reviews.
b- I feel bad for Dennis- even tho I don't know him beyond a few emails over the years- because clearly he is a passionate man who is having to deal with two tough situations right now (the mediocre reviews of a game he clearly loves, as well as the situation of being made out to be a bad guy amongst the core fans he is- one assumes- trying to please). He may also be dealing with a third tough situation if the sales of his game are poor.
All that said, my life experience shows that often times, failure is a great thing because it allows you to either learn from mistakes and recommit to your passions OR it allows you to realize that you are not really on the path you need to be on in the first place. So I think, for Dennis, this will end up being a great situation where he's able to reassess what he wants. But again, I don't know him. That's just how I would deal with it.
As for posting here, I still plan on doing it. I still plan on defending myself when someone attacks me without clear reason. But I don't tend to come here to promote our games. I mean, I always answer questions about them and correct people if they have some info on our games that is not correct, but I don't look at Neogaf as a PR tool. I look at it as a place to mingle with fellow fans of games we all love and to meet folks who consider themselves fans of what we do. And I love that. I love neogaf, always have.
As for being more influential, well no offense, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If TOO HUMAN had been getting 97% scores and selling great, even if Dennis had insulted some of you guys 1000 times worse, it would not matter if you not only banned him but changed the name to NEO-FUCK-YOU-DYACK-GAF (dude, fuck off, I get PAID to be creative, I ain't giving it away for free!!!!
Not to say sites like this- and this one in particular- can NOT be influential but I tend to think the influence of hard core sites like this help bring a more obscure game up into the more semi-hard core consciousness- which in turn- will help sales. I do not see it working in the opposite direction.
But we'll see...just my take.
David
Well, I don't personally think that GAF (Or even the collective majority of all gaming messageboards) have any significant influence on a game's retail success and I'm sure that at least the majority of developers feel the same, I'm just wondering how the publishers would feel about it; would their attitudes regarding developer communication with the public change as a result?
That and I feel bad for the guy, he and his team have gone through enough trouble with the game; the reviews must be devistating to him and the rest of SK
Drinky Crow
Banned
skip said:
no, that would be the jeremy parish zd review of ultimate ghosts and goblins
i ain't gonna let you forget that
ever
Kittonwy said:Wow.
I don't know what to say.
I hope Dyack would take constructive criticisms on his game seriously next time, it will end up being a better game and that can only be beneficial to him, his studio and his publisher.
In the end, only the smiley cat warrior is still standing.
To me it just seemed like they never listened to any criticism and labelled anyone that didn't like the game as not understanding it
Idk, it just seems a shame for everyone involved in too human that it has ended up this way with the reviews and the hate for Dyack etc.
I have to agree Dyack crossed the line though and clearly deserved a ban, if he thinks this is the worst forum he wont miss his posting privileges anyway. I just hope this saga doesn't put other people off participating here.
Idk, it just seems a shame for everyone involved in too human that it has ended up this way with the reviews and the hate for Dyack etc.
I have to agree Dyack crossed the line though and clearly deserved a ban, if he thinks this is the worst forum he wont miss his posting privileges anyway. I just hope this saga doesn't put other people off participating here.
besada said:
You can't really blame them for playing it the way they do though. They know the hardcore love any sign of drama etc. Thats why there was the ''Oh wait till the next 1up yours''. Insinuating that they're acknowleding how ridiculous his whole behaviour is. Then when you listen to it the entire thing comes of so biased bar a couple interjections from Garnett. Whilst behind the scenes they're all probably spurring him on to do more absurd ramblings so they can post and get hits by pretending to be on his side. It's semi-genius, in with the hounds and running with the foxes. Similar reasons make me unable to take even reviews seriously because so many seem to be trying to not offend certain parties. Plus people worrying about what devs would think when it comes to gaf really shouldn't be.
David Jaffe said:
Oh for sure dude! I would be the first to say "Dyack, you're a douche but I am LOVING your game right now!" I'm a gamer, I have no principles, I just want the goods.
To that end if you want to reveal your prediliction for cannabalism then go to it, you'll still be golden in my eyes. God of War games KICK ASS.
HallucinatingElvis
Banned
Holy shit Jaffe, holy shit!
what a great response to this thread and the situation as a whole, seriously I just went from a nonfan to much respect for Jaffe.
wow
what a great response to this thread and the situation as a whole, seriously I just went from a nonfan to much respect for Jaffe.
wow
TuSeiSkeefoso said:
You don't know what you're talking about. If developers weren't interested in swaying the opinion of GAFfers, we would never have virals. We do have virals, and plenty of them, because marketers ARE interested in the hardcore. Not just in videogames, but in everything that's sold. Your core consumers are your trendsetters. They are known amongst their friends as the guy who knows about video games. It's why MS has MVPs, it's why Sony and Nintendo do special things for their hardest core. It's why movie producers fly out web critics on movie junkets. It's why pharmaceutical companies give freebies and treat doctors well. It's buying evangelism. If you can get hardcore obsessive fans hyped about your game/drink/car/drug, they'll carry the message onto dozens of boards, influencing thousands of people.
You don't have to believe in it, but that shows your ignorance more than anything else. I don't think GAF is special in this sense. This happens on every other forum. The biggest difference is the GAF seeks these marketers out and gets rid of them.
Note: I don't think viral marketing necessarily works, by the way, but there's no question that marketers do.
Fenderputty
Banned
GSG Flash said:
:lol Where the hell is TM?!?!?!?!?!?
Not really a criticism, but still ... where is it?
BravoSuperStar
Member
dragonlife29 said:
If thats what you call "blind rage" then you must lead a very sheltered life. 1up isn't relevant enough to even evoke a serious emotional response from me. I'm just glad they are finally being called on some of their BS. They instigated, they let this douche have a soap box to bash this forum, and then pretend like they were all deer caught in the headlights. Either way it's all about the hits. Create drama to get those page counters up.
Good, specific moderation ought to be as invisible as possible. There is an FAQ forum readily avaiable stating what will and will not be acceptable. Just ban the person, remove them from all further discussion, edit out whatever offensive material they were banned for, and move on.
Topics like this one, similar the moderator comments that pop up when banning someone are unnecessary and cause the same kind of annoyance and degradation for the forum as the offenses the banned members committed in the first place.
More secret police, less three ring circus, please. No one needs reminding who runs things.
Topics like this one, similar the moderator comments that pop up when banning someone are unnecessary and cause the same kind of annoyance and degradation for the forum as the offenses the banned members committed in the first place.
More secret police, less three ring circus, please. No one needs reminding who runs things.
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