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Dyack: "NeoGAF...I would say is probably the worst forum." Response.

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T

Tiktaalik

Member
Nuclear Muffin said:
I'm just wondering what other developers who lurk here are thinking in regards to this incident. Will GAF be seen as more influencial now, will developers no longer post here in fear of damaging their games' perceptions?
Click to expand...

I don't think all of these drama threads have shown any GAF influence at all. People only really got riled up because of the super low scores from the major review outlets. A week or so ago I posted a thread discussing what will happen when Too Human would inevitably bomb, and a ton of people thought that Too Human would get 7s and 8s. If the review scores were good this whole thing would have turned out completely differently.

So I don't think anything that Dyack said really super strongly effected GAF too much, and it remains to be seen if GAF's big negative reaction to Too Human will effect anything at all. As some noted, aside from Madden, Too Human has August pretty open to it, and with savvy marketing, it could still get to 1 million lifetime despite all the negative critical response and negative community response.
 
B

BravoSuperStar

Member
I've always wondered why a site like 1up was such a big deal around here. They seem incompetent at best. I'm just going to come out and say how i've always felt about that site. Fuck 1up and everyone who works there.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Mooreberg said:
I don't mind people wanting a flame-free thread for people that enjoy the game to discuss it, or even him answering people's questions in it. But you are right about everything else. He would have made a stronger statement by declining to continue posting here. Talking about how lousy the forum is for an hour on 1up Yours and then continuing to post here just seems odd.
Click to expand...
Dyack actually made a post praising the moderation of the Too Human thread, amusingly enough.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
And as a bonus, we learned Evillore's real name is Tyler, which is nowhere near as cool, badass, or intimidating as...........evillore.
 
D

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
shuri said:
I kind of understand the guy. Working so long on a project and seeing it being ripped appart feels awful
Click to expand...

Well, if he took things with grace, it would have been much better for it and nobody would have cared if the game sucked or not, aside from the system wars fanboys.
 
D

DarkJC

Member
VanMardigan said:
And as a bonus, we learned Evillore's real name is Tyler, which is nowhere near as cool, badass, or intimidating as...........evillore.
Click to expand...

There is only one L. It is Evilore.
 
H

Hwang Seong-Gyeong

Banned
GAF is the definative forum for news that's it's forte. I don't enjoy posting here that much because there are way too many supressed fanboys who are afraid to express what they want they really think, and too much circle jerking at times not willing to take criticism of a game or something. And if anybody who can smell a fanboy's crap from a mile away is another fanboy making for some akward moments.

Other that I guess this forum is a good time waster that keeps your upto date and informed about your hobby.
 
D

Deleted member 20415

Unconfirmed Member
skip said:
I already explained why we didn't.
Click to expand...

You got ambushed skip, you and Garnett and plenty of other people have publicly said that and insinuated that. I don't get the 1up hate on here over this issue. Just because it was more public than other games press doesn't mean you guys should get all the shit for that.

You could hear everyone's eyes gloss over in that podcast and Garnett even called bullshit on him. Just because there wasn't fire and brimstone, doesn't mean they failed on some assumed duty to provide incredibly critical coverage and conversation.

Keep doing what you're doing Skip, let the haters hate.
 
B

besada

Banned
skip said:
I already explained why we didn't.
Click to expand...

But you didn't explain why you would need any sort of research to counter Denis's obviously ridiculous claim of not having a voice with which to argue back, while simultaneously giving him that voice.
 
S

Snaku

Banned
:lol @ the calls for gaffers to grow up.

The only person that needs to grow up here is a certain 42-year-old man child developer. I desperately want to like Too human, and perhaps if the rest of the trilogy is released someday I will. But the way Denis Dyack has conducted himself over the last three years has been nothing short of juvenile. I'd like to see his story telling and game design mature a great deal with the next two installments of Too Human, but I believe the man himself needs to mature before that can happen.

Till then Denis, this permaham's for you...

2re4601.jpg
 
S

skip

Member
El_TigroX said:
You got ambushed skip, you and Garnett and plenty of other people have publicly said that and insinuated that. I don't get the 1up hate on here over this issue. Just because it was more public than other games press doesn't mean you guys should get all the shit for that.

You could hear everyone's eyes gloss over in that podcast and Garnett even called bullshit on him. Just because there wasn't fire and brimstone, doesn't mean they failed on some assumed duty to provide incredibly critical coverage and conversation.

Keep doing what you're doing Skip, let the haters hate.
Click to expand...

no worries. I wish we could have a mulligan on that whole thing, but honestly, I have other things worth worrying about.
 
L

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
skip said:
no worries. I wish we could have a mulligan on that whole thing, but honestly, I have other things worth worrying about.
Click to expand...


I thought it seemed similar to that extended interview you guys did with the Hellgate developer, maybe that's what Dyack went in expecting?
 
S

skip

Member
levious said:
I thought it seemed similar to that extended interview you guys did with the Hellgate developer, maybe that's what Dyack went in expecting?
Click to expand...

perhaps. I wasn't around for that roper interview, though, and never got around listening to what ensued.
 
D

Dyno

Member
besada said:
But you didn't explain why you would need any sort of research to counter Denis's obviously ridiculous claim of not having a voice with which to argue back, while simultaneously giving him that voice.
Click to expand...

The answer is simple. 1UP can't afford to offend Denis otherwise he won't come back. Input from actual game developers is what keeps the enthusiast media relevant.

Giving Denis a soapbox is on par with review embargos, add space carrot dangling, and all the rest.

If/When Denis comes back on he may very well choose to give another lecture and you know what? Not Skip or anyone else is going to stop him. They're afraid too.

And it is pathetic. It's why sites like GAF are eclipsing places like 1Up when it comes to getting news and opinion.
 
H

h3ro

Member
skip said:
...but honestly, I have other things worth worrying about.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like the thought of C.C. wearing pinstripes next year and Broadway Brett... :D

yes yes, I am a cocky New Yorker, its the only kind there is
:p
 
M

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
First of all :lol @ Astrolad, you are the jewel in GAF's crown. Never change.

Second, and this is gonna be long but, I wanna at least contribute.


When the President/CEO of a company stoops to the level of dickhattery Dyack has done in the past 3 or four months it reflects badly on him. Not only him, but the poor suckers who toil under him. Not only him and them, but the company who beleived strongly enough in their product to fund, market and publish it.

Denis Dyack has behaved selfishly, he has absoloutely put his own interests before those of his company, his product, his publisher and probably a couple hundred sales of a game that may have been treated with more kindness had he been able to keep his internet browsing and mouth in check.

GAF has a lot of Dev's posting on here. A lot. Some are a pretty big deal in the industry, by hook or by crook, but I've never seen anyone behave like Denis has in such an easy to scrutinise and document fashion. If David Jaffe can come here and read through posts about his games, what could be described as "personal attacks", yet still walk away pretty much unscathed, then how come Denis couldn't? The saddest thing is this isn't the first GAF meltdown by the man.

Honestly, I can't beleive people are defending Denis' actions and abhoring Evilore's. Dyack declined with silence to make the stakes of the Too Human bet tangible. Dyack talked a bunch of mess about GAF and environments such as GAF as "dangerous" and counter-productive to society. Even when you take in to consideration PA's Internet Dickwad theory, calling something like GAF dangerous is absurd. He also did so without offering GAF, or representatives thereof, to respond directly and never posted here again. Now that's no longer a choice for him and I can't say I am in the least sorry about it.


The saddest thing is I doubt Denis even cares. While I am of the thought his little "experiment" was backpeddling of the highest order, he's "saved face" with the media at large, swanning away from recording booths and show floors with his dragon-covered-fantasy-melodrama novel tucked safely underarm. I just hope Denis can wake up in time for Too Human 2 and treat his employees and publisher with the respect they deserve when the line is drawn for that game because this one isn't forcing crow down anybodys throat.

In summary; good for you, Evilore.
 
G

Gino

Member
SuperEnemyCrab said:
I've always wondered why a site like 1up was such a big deal around here. They seem incompetent at best. I'm just going to come out and say how i've always felt about that site. Fuck 1up and everyone who works there.
Click to expand...

Wow... Now that's just stupid. You may not like the site but why would you say fuck everyone who works there?
 
B

BravoSuperStar

Member
Gino said:
Wow... Now that's just stupid. You may not like the site but why would you say fuck everyone who works there?
Click to expand...

Lol, I was being overly dramatical I admit, for effect. I don't really know anyone besides the people that post here, and then only by their posting history. But ya, i've never really liked that site and consider it barely above kotaku/joy stiq blog level on the internet scale of gaming sites.
 
B

besada

Banned
Dyno said:
The answer is simple. 1UP can't afford offend Denis otherwise he won't come back. Input from actual game developers is what keeps the enthusiast media relevant.
Click to expand...

Exactly correct. Skip and Denis and the rest of 1up have been pretending for a long time that this was about something other than what it's about, which is money. They sat there and bobbed their heads because they knew it would generate hits and that questioning Dyack might lose them a connection which generated later hits.

Denis's entire purpose in coming to GAF was to sell his game. He used GAF as a sales forum, and when didn't acquiesce like 1up and the other press sites, he got upset. He's supposed to be able to come here, engage in hyperbole about his game, and then wait while the money rolls in.

Both Dyack and 1up have been using GAF to generate income, as if we existed for their benefit. We don't. We exist for our benefit. It's clear that the devs aren't looking out for the gamers, and it's equally clear the press isn't, so someone has to. That means puncturing the baloon of exaggeration that Denis tried to float and it should also mean holding 1up responsible for their role in this.
 
davidjaffe

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
Nuclear Muffin said:
I'm just wondering what other developers who lurk here are thinking in regards to this incident. Will GAF be seen as more influencial now, will developers no longer post here in fear of damaging their games' perceptions?
Click to expand...


Well I don't lurk, I post, thanks very much :)

And my take on it is:

a- I feel bad for the SK team because it sucks to work hard and get poor reviews.
b- I feel bad for Dennis- even tho I don't know him beyond a few emails over the years- because clearly he is a passionate man who is having to deal with two tough situations right now (the mediocre reviews of a game he clearly loves, as well as the situation of being made out to be a bad guy amongst the core fans he is- one assumes- trying to please). He may also be dealing with a third tough situation if the sales of his game are poor.

All that said, my life experience shows that often times, failure is a great thing because it allows you to either learn from mistakes and recommit to your passions OR it allows you to realize that you are not really on the path you need to be on in the first place. So I think, for Dennis, this will end up being a great situation where he's able to reassess what he wants. But again, I don't know him. That's just how I would deal with it.

As for posting here, I still plan on doing it. I still plan on defending myself when someone attacks me without clear reason. But I don't tend to come here to promote our games. I mean, I always answer questions about them and correct people if they have some info on our games that is not correct, but I don't look at Neogaf as a PR tool. I look at it as a place to mingle with fellow fans of games we all love and to meet folks who consider themselves fans of what we do. And I love that. I love neogaf, always have.

As for being more influential, well no offense, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If TOO HUMAN had been getting 97% scores and selling great, even if Dennis had insulted some of you guys 1000 times worse, it would not matter if you not only banned him but changed the name to NEO-FUCK-YOU-DYACK-GAF (dude, fuck off, I get PAID to be creative, I ain't giving it away for free!!!! :) ...I mean, but if all that had occurred but the game rocked to many people, this would not make a difference. And frankly it still won't, from a nuts and bolts sales standpoint. Too Human will sell how well it sells based on many things. Dennis being a current 'enemy' of Neogaf is not one of them.

Not to say sites like this- and this one in particular- can NOT be influential but I tend to think the influence of hard core sites like this help bring a more obscure game up into the more semi-hard core consciousness- which in turn- will help sales. I do not see it working in the opposite direction.

But we'll see...just my take.

David
 
K

Kabuki Waq

Member
El_TigroX said:
You got ambushed skip, you and Garnett and plenty of other people have publicly said that and insinuated that. I don't get the 1up hate on here over this issue. Just because it was more public than other games press doesn't mean you guys should get all the shit for that.

You could hear everyone's eyes gloss over in that podcast and Garnett even called bullshit on him. Just because there wasn't fire and brimstone, doesn't mean they failed on some assumed duty to provide incredibly critical coverage and conversation.

Keep doing what you're doing Skip, let the haters hate.
Click to expand...

I am not a hater but usually ppl get called out for stupidity on 1up. My apologies if Dyack surprised you. I just assumed you guys knew the deal before the interview.
 
J

jluedtke

Member
Dyno said:
The answer is simple. 1UP can't afford to offend Denis otherwise he won't come back. Input from actual game developers is what keeps the enthusiast media relevant.

Giving Denis a soapbox is on par with review embargos, add space carrot dangling, and all the rest.

If/When Denis comes back on he may very well choose to give another lecture and you know what? Not Skip or anyone else is going to stop him. They're afraid too.

And it is pathetic. It's why sites like GAF are eclipsing places like 1Up when it comes to getting news and opinion.
Click to expand...

Ridiculous. You did see the review they gave Too Human, didn't you? What you said is just silly. 1up afraid to offend Denis Dyack? Come on. Get real.
 
C

Classic_Gs

Member
Snaku said:
:lol @ the calls for gaffers to grow up.

The only person that needs to grow up here is a certain 42-year-old man child developer. I desperately want to like Too human, and perhaps if the rest of the trilogy is released someday I will. But the way Denis Dyack has conducted himself over the last three years has been nothing short of juvenile. I'd like to see his story telling and game design mature a great deal with the next two installments of Too Human, but I believe the man himself needs to mature before that can happen.

Till then Denis, this permaham's for you...

2re4601.jpg
Click to expand...
:lol :lol :lol
 
S

Speevy

Banned
h3ro said:
But I bet you have more PSN games than him!
Click to expand...


I have more PSN games than David Jaffe. Not one of them makes me a 23 year old forum owner. Wait, I bet Jaffe's older than I am. Come on man, throw me a bone. Say you're over 25.
 
D

Dyno

Member
jluedtke said:
Ridiculous. You did see the review they gave Too Human, didn't you? What you said is just silly. 1up afraid to offend Denis Dyack? Come on. Get real.
Click to expand...

If they weren't somewhat honest in their reviews this time around they would have been pilloried for it. No supposedly respected game site wants to be the one who gave this game the highest score.
 
C

Crisis

Banned
This thread has everything. A mod OP, hate at developers, gifs, gifs quoted multiple times over followed by ":lol " trolling, bans, Sales-Age, and now David Jaffe.
 
B

besada

Banned
davidjaffe said:
But I don't tend to come here to promote our games. I mean, I always answer questions about them and correct people if they have some info on our games that is not correct, but I don't look at Neogaf as a PR tool.
Click to expand...

Mr. Jaffe gets it.
 
J

jluedtke

Member
Dyno said:
If they weren't somewhat honest in their reviews this time around they would have been pilloried for it. No supposedly respected game site wants to be the one who gave this game the highest score.
Click to expand...

Sorry man, but that sounds like conspiracy theory gibberish. I don't think 1up is going to lose any sleep if ol' Denis doesn't want to come babble on their podcasts any more. They'd do just fine without him.
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
I kinda agree with the attack on 1up for feeding Dyack's ego (Even this place was guilty of it before he totally went off the deep-end the past few months). The way Garnett was so impressed by his little thesis had me rolling, what the hell's wrong with that guy?
 
I

impirius

Member
I don't have anything to say about the issue at hand, but I'm obligated to post in any thread in which Derek Smart is mentioned.
 
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