ASilentProtagonist
Member
I like this.
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Edge previews 40 hours of Final Fantasy XV
- Thread starter Koozek
- Start date
I like this.
I'm of a few minds on this.
1. One of the core "features" I've noticed of this community over my (relatively brief) time here is that when a collective mindset of ours wants to like an upcoming game, it's a kneejerk reaction we display in which we sharply criticize the first controversially mixed review, only to post sad reaction GIFs later on in which we solemnly acknowledge that so-and-so "had it right all along. ;_;" I think a few grammatical errors and problems of tone and context illustrated in Edge's article shouldn't be enough for us to disregard its message. Many of the glowing impressions articles in recent weeks have even been careful to note that it remains to be seen whether the style they heaped praise upon would manage to hold up. Please note: I am not directing this at anyone in particular. I love this community and its sensationalism is fun by its own right sometimes. And, heck, we are still amazing when it comes to quality analysis despite all that. But still. tldr; let's not crucify the author.
2. That written, I'm seeing the opposite in this thread as well. I've seen at least one post where a fellow has remarked that this confirms the plot is abysmal. Let's bear in mind that Edge is (in?)famous for being harsh in its review texts. It's kind of what they do. Please note that the author says emotional beats tend to ring "a little hollow" at times. The author did not call the plot a bust. The author said that, yes, the focus on character comes at the expense of a strong plot. But what Edge has historically constituted as "strong plot" has, at least in my estimation, been a pillar above the rest of the games journalism industry. So, I would argue the fact that the author said some positive things about the story and especially its cast is a good thing in and of itself. Just the same, though, we ought not jump to conclusions either way. It could be solid but flawed. It could be dreadful with a few redeeming lights. It could be the Second Coming. tldr; let's not take this all as gospel, either. Especially not in relation to plot.
3. It is curious the author's usage of the term "second half" given Tabata's remarks that the so-called latter half is in fact closer to the end. I've seen it said in this thread that perhaps this is as little as 30 minutes of game time. I don't think that's remotely possible, barring a numerical lapse in the author's judgment which would necessitate psychiatric assistance. No, I can't fathom this more linear and confined experience being half an hour long. It must stick in some prolonged fashion in order to have the author address it as half, erroneously or otherwise. My hypothesis: the linear path is less gameplay time by proxy, as the open world regions allow for dozens of hours of exploration and side content, but the linear path still corresponds to, say, Chapters 8-15 or so, because each chapter is a narrative episodic benchmark. This is something I've pondered for longer than just today, and it would explain the confusion.
4. Building on #3, I'd reckon that, if I am correct, there will in fact be only three, perhaps four, open world zones. I use this number because we know at least of a third, thanks to Active Time Report airings. However, it is my estimation that that third zone is perhaps smaller at least than Duscae, and there is no guarantee of a fourth. I would like to bring to evidence the following: we know from recent press previews that the first region is the first two chapters. Duscae launches the third, or close enough to that timeframe, at least. Perhaps around the fifth chapter or the sixth we enter another zone. Then around the eighth the plot, such as it is, attempts to shift into higher gear (whether because it truly wishes to do so or because the development team ran out of time along the way as Edge insinuates is possible). From that point, we are in a more linear world. tldr; I am gambling there are no more than four zones at the most, no matter what all the map analysis over the years has hinted. Later regions are marginalized from a gameplay standpoint.
5. I prefer linear. This last point is just me shooting the breeze with my own thoughts, but... it's the truth. I don't mind FFX's style at all. I adore XII's, as well, mind you. But FFX has a stronger focus to its narrative. Now, if you don't care for that focus, then I can see why you would dislike the game. And if you don't care for that linear aspect by and large, yeah, FFX isn't going to do it for you. But given the choice between the two, I trust FFX's style far more in delivering a quality plot with sufficient eventfulness. So, I am leaning toward everything I've read from Edge's article being a good thing overall. But I don't believe the author would be as (relatively) critical if they did not feel it is handled quite awkwardly. I think in the final telling we are going to receive an awkward game with some sophomoric approaches brought on by its development history and the uncertainty of its craft. But I think I, myself, am going to like it more overall in thanks to this latter-game change in philosophy. Wrinkles and all.
1. One of the core "features" I've noticed of this community over my (relatively brief) time here is that when a collective mindset of ours wants to like an upcoming game, it's a kneejerk reaction we display in which we sharply criticize the first controversially mixed review, only to post sad reaction GIFs later on in which we solemnly acknowledge that so-and-so "had it right all along. ;_;" I think a few grammatical errors and problems of tone and context illustrated in Edge's article shouldn't be enough for us to disregard its message. Many of the glowing impressions articles in recent weeks have even been careful to note that it remains to be seen whether the style they heaped praise upon would manage to hold up. Please note: I am not directing this at anyone in particular. I love this community and its sensationalism is fun by its own right sometimes. And, heck, we are still amazing when it comes to quality analysis despite all that. But still. tldr; let's not crucify the author.
2. That written, I'm seeing the opposite in this thread as well. I've seen at least one post where a fellow has remarked that this confirms the plot is abysmal. Let's bear in mind that Edge is (in?)famous for being harsh in its review texts. It's kind of what they do. Please note that the author says emotional beats tend to ring "a little hollow" at times. The author did not call the plot a bust. The author said that, yes, the focus on character comes at the expense of a strong plot. But what Edge has historically constituted as "strong plot" has, at least in my estimation, been a pillar above the rest of the games journalism industry. So, I would argue the fact that the author said some positive things about the story and especially its cast is a good thing in and of itself. Just the same, though, we ought not jump to conclusions either way. It could be solid but flawed. It could be dreadful with a few redeeming lights. It could be the Second Coming. tldr; let's not take this all as gospel, either. Especially not in relation to plot.
3. It is curious the author's usage of the term "second half" given Tabata's remarks that the so-called latter half is in fact closer to the end. I've seen it said in this thread that perhaps this is as little as 30 minutes of game time. I don't think that's remotely possible, barring a numerical lapse in the author's judgment which would necessitate psychiatric assistance. No, I can't fathom this more linear and confined experience being half an hour long. It must stick in some prolonged fashion in order to have the author address it as half, erroneously or otherwise. My hypothesis: the linear path is less gameplay time by proxy, as the open world regions allow for dozens of hours of exploration and side content, but the linear path still corresponds to, say, Chapters 8-15 or so, because each chapter is a narrative episodic benchmark. This is something I've pondered for longer than just today, and it would explain the confusion.
4. Building on #3, I'd reckon that, if I am correct, there will in fact be only three, perhaps four, open world zones. I use this number because we know at least of a third, thanks to Active Time Report airings. However, it is my estimation that that third zone is perhaps smaller at least than Duscae, and there is no guarantee of a fourth. I would like to bring to evidence the following: we know from recent press previews that the first region is the first two chapters. Duscae launches the third, or close enough to that timeframe, at least. Perhaps around the fifth chapter or the sixth we enter another zone. Then around the eighth the plot, such as it is, attempts to shift into higher gear (whether because it truly wishes to do so or because the development team ran out of time along the way as Edge insinuates is possible). From that point, we are in a more linear world. tldr; I am gambling there are no more than four zones at the most, no matter what all the map analysis over the years has hinted. Later regions are marginalized from a gameplay standpoint.
5. I prefer linear. This last point is just me shooting the breeze with my own thoughts, but... it's the truth. I don't mind FFX's style at all. I adore XII's, as well, mind you. But FFX has a stronger focus to its narrative. Now, if you don't care for that focus, then I can see why you would dislike the game. And if you don't care for that linear aspect by and large, yeah, FFX isn't going to do it for you. But given the choice between the two, I trust FFX's style far more in delivering a quality plot with sufficient eventfulness. So, I am leaning toward everything I've read from Edge's article being a good thing overall. But I don't believe the author would be as (relatively) critical if they did not feel it is handled quite awkwardly. I think in the final telling we are going to receive an awkward game with some sophomoric approaches brought on by its development history and the uncertainty of its craft. But I think I, myself, am going to like it more overall in thanks to this latter-game change in philosophy. Wrinkles and all.
Seven Force
Banned
VIII is definitely a mess in some respects, and VIII is far and away my favorite FF game.
It's a beautiful, ambitious mess though, and I wouldn't change a thing about it.
Doesn't read to me like actual time travel, more like a way to get back to the open world part of the game.
It been a part of the marketing materials for some time, it's no spoiler.
A linear endgame sounds good to me if well designed. I think XIII made people forget that linear isn't synonymous with bad. The rest sounds like usual FF fare: weird bits cobbled together that will work for some people and not for others.
Boy Wander
Member
Yes - the basic theme seems to be that there are a ton of ideas, some good, some original, some fun, many not fleshed out.
Another complaint in the preview is the dearth of playable female characters that you can have in your party.
Here's another quote to wind up the more hyberbolic amongst you:
"The battle system works well with a small group of enemies, and is at its best when Noctis is forced to fight alone. As the number of bodies in the skirmish increases, so the complexity scales and the legibility of what is happening on screen falls. The system comes close to falling apart completely during boss fights. as the camera swivels wildly with the action, often leaving you giddy and disoriented."
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
That you can literally travel back in time? Guess I need to avoid every single thread on this game, they're revealing too much before release honestly if that's the case.
WickedLaharl
Member
Fuck yes. Stealth sections in a non-stealth game are fucking shitty.
LouisaFerre
Member
Not really all that surprising, regarding the mentioned issues. Doesn't make the game bad, IMO. I'm still looking forward to playing it, but when a game has a troubled development and needs to be scaled back partway through, the seams are going to show somewhere.
SoraanTribal
Member
Personally, I'm totally fine with a more linear second half. I typically get bored of completely open world games and just want it over with around the halfway mark. Hell, as much as I liked Witcher 3, I never did beat it. I put in like 60 hours, kind of grew tired of it and the open world aspects, then quit. I'd like to go back to it at some point, but anyway... yeah, I'm fine with what I read about FFXV (except I do hope Luna has a larger role than some are saying).
I think that people can gravitate towards the general opinions of certain outlets.
More than likely not the same author in this case, but even then, it helps put into perspective how drastically different the impressions can be of the same game.
Wat - FFVI's second half is the epitome of non-linearity.
Yeah, the Xenogears point is apt (although, that's another example of what I was getting at in my larger post -- that linear back "half" is roughly a dozen or so hours versus around fifty on Disc 1) but Final Fantasy VI goes in the opposite direction.
I was actually thinking about it during my bike ride earlier and XV could be the Anti-VI.
I was actually thinking about it during my bike ride earlier and XV could be the Anti-VI.
LordKasual
Banned
I like you. People should read this. I do find it tragic that a sensible critique of the game just results in hyperbole because of pent up negative feeling towards XV in general. Or maybe it's just fear? Who knows.
I was never expecting a 10/10 or a 9.5/10 game. Solid 8.5-9.0 expectations, all things considered about this project. Rocky development, alongside a new engine from scratch, exploring a new design genre that previously was technologically unavailable from the devs?
If this game pulls anything above a 9.0, honestly, that's going to be a miraculous feat for me. But i'm going to enjoy the ride all the same.
But even after months and months of reading it...it's still a bit jarring for this game to have been basically on a sailing rocket as far as PR and impressions go, only for one negative preview to basically revert threads back into the same old same old.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Except literally last month everyone was saying the total opposite...
I think it's time I dip out hope this isn't garbage, doesn't have to be perfect, just give me an ok game Tabata
One I can say this is a good Final fantasy
That's certainly possible and would in some sense be funny since I believe Tabata has stated VI is his personal favorite unless I'm mistaken.
Adam_Vania
Banned
im playing through IX at the moment and kind of shocked how linear the whole game is. yet people still think it's one of the best.
honestly the whole linear vs. nonlinear debate is shapeless and meaningless anyways, all that matters is if the game is good, could care less what you call it.
honestly the whole linear vs. nonlinear debate is shapeless and meaningless anyways, all that matters is if the game is good, could care less what you call it.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I never thought this would be close to GOTY. At most I thought I'd probably like fighting random things, or the Hunt progression enough to maybe preorder (but I didn't preorder, though today I considered it for the amazon bonuses). I already dislike the direction the story is going, mainly due to the movie, partly due to the road trip that never picks up new party members, and everyone wearing black.
6 was stated to be his favorite.
Aww, thanks for the compliment!
I'm with you on this. I'm looking at around an 8.5-9 as well. But then, I've always been kind of bizarre re: my favorite games; realistically, I can't give some of them more than that but I frequently cite them as my faves. FFXV still stands a chance of doing that for me despite the upcoming nigh-unavoidable flaws. Or maybe I won't like it very much at all! It's hard to say, still, but I'm not seeing much in this article that I wasn't already expecting.Yeah, and the Edge author labels Ardyn as Kefka-esque (which is a funny play on Kafkaesque, but I digress). So a reverse FFVI with a Kefka for an antagonist is really just making me grin ear-to-ear over here.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
What are you going to tell them when they ask what FF15 is?
They're gonna be really impressed
Mister Megative
Banned
Not surprised in the least. This is GAF bro.
AlexFlame116
Member
How about we just play the game and come to our own conclusions? This is going to be one of those games that some will love and some will dislike.
And I can't wait to have the game in my hands and finally play my most anticipated game in 10 years.
And I can't wait to have the game in my hands and finally play my most anticipated game in 10 years.
Final Fantasy has always been linear, it's more a matter of how much of an illusion of freedom you feel like you have.
FFXIII did take the linearity to an extreme though.
Based on someone's post above, I agree with some of the descriptions that they've made in their reviews of Final Fantasy games, but I don't really agree with their scores.
I kind of see their inevitable full review of Final Fantasy XV to not really reflect my own experiences with the game (based on this history).
They tend to shed a more critical view of games so it's not unexpected if they are heavily critical of this game.
Personally, I just want to enjoy it, so I'm not worried. I don't need it to be the best of the best to fuel fanboy wars a year later.
I kind of see their inevitable full review of Final Fantasy XV to not really reflect my own experiences with the game (based on this history).
They tend to shed a more critical view of games so it's not unexpected if they are heavily critical of this game.
Personally, I just want to enjoy it, so I'm not worried. I don't need it to be the best of the best to fuel fanboy wars a year later.
Mister Megative
Banned
Cobbled together Frankenstein of a game, eh? Let's hear all about your extensive, hands-on time with FFXV. You've clearly had a lot of playtime on the game. Drop some truth bombas on me bro.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
They mention the ending.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I feared this, but if it's good, it's good.
They have played through to the end. At 40 hours, they've doubtless missed quite a bit of side content (probably earlier on in the game, given what we're reading here) considering that usgamer's Jeremy Parish spent 15 or so hours moving up to the beginning of Chapter 3. But yeah, they've played to the end.
YankeeDonB
Member
Very reasonable points. I think folks on Gaf want to be ahead of the curve and are simultaneously very sensitive to in-group out-group dynamics that form around particular games. People want to have the majority opinion, and they want to have it now (obviously this isn't everyone).
This can lead to a lot of disruptive tension in the lead up to anticipated and potentially divisive games like XV.
I'm certainly excited for XV, but this is the first big impression of the later chapters, and it doesn't sound super positive. It's not totally negative either, but mixed, with highs and lows. Just because the author isn't the best writer (or at least didn't bring their A game to this preview (maybe there was no room in their bag once they stuffed their thesaurus in there?)) doesn't negate their general impressions.
From my perspective, regional specificity of content (e.g. chocobos) and a fair bit of linearity aren't a priori bad. I'm more concerned with how the narrative develops as the game becomes more linear, and I don't feel this preview gave us much to work on there.
WickedLaharl
Member
it sounds bad to me bro
i hope you can manage to accept my opinion bro ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Yeah for a while now they have been reusing older worlds,characters..etc for newer games (ffxiv arr and ffxv).
I would love to see something completely new for ff16.
This entire year of FFXV news has been a complete disaster. Everything about it sounds really bad, Platinum Demo was the deal breaker to me. Glad I cancelled the LE preorder
"Season Pass no included".
Just play Kiseki, Souls or Persona if you want the best and most important JRPGs right now. FFXV is irrelevant.
"Season Pass no included".
Just play Kiseki, Souls or Persona if you want the best and most important JRPGs right now. FFXV is irrelevant.
I feel like some people are putting too much weight on their opinion.
Now, I don't mean to invalidate their claims, on the contrary, from the quotes posted here I feel like they articulated their points quite well and I can totally see what they dislike about it, but for example, when they say that the alt outfits are useless because they're all worse than the defaults, you can extract the fact and the opinion here. The fact is, there are more alt costumes, and that's great. The opinion is that they all suck anyway. But we've seen one alt costume (with a variation) for every character, and personally I already like a couple of them more than the defaults, so I'm not too worried about that. How can you be concerned about the quality of alt costumes because one person didn't like them more than the original?
Unless he's talking about stats, which is something I care much less about, but I can totally see why others would disagree.
Another example would be the economy, it doesn't give you a lot of gold, and if you just heal your way through the encounters, you'll be left with little money to buy cool stuff, but I think that's very interesting. I guess I'll adopt my Bloodborne strategy of spending the leftover money from upgrades to buy potions. Again, it's totally fine to disagree with me on this, and think that it's a bad thing (a lot of people hate the vial system in Bloodborne too, since I mentioned it), but I'm seeing people saying "the game doesn't give me enough money, that sucks". How the hell do you know that? We know it doesn't give the player A LOT of money, but if it's enough money, it'll depend on how you play. Personally, I tend to avoid healing during battles in games like these that have both general health decrease and gray health, and I save my healing items to restore my general health once the battle is over.
The one thing I can't see ending up being positive is the forced stealth. The only example of forced stealth segments in a non-stealth game being great that I can think of is the one in the Iconoclasts demo, but it lasts like 2 minutes. Hours of this would be boring as shit.
Their negative impressions on the plot are concerning, but not totally unexpected. Does the full article touch on end-game content? Optional high level hunts, bosses and stuff like that? I'm assuming they'll take place in the open world area of the game, and that's already some really cool incentive to go back and explore some more, imo.
Now, I don't mean to invalidate their claims, on the contrary, from the quotes posted here I feel like they articulated their points quite well and I can totally see what they dislike about it, but for example, when they say that the alt outfits are useless because they're all worse than the defaults, you can extract the fact and the opinion here. The fact is, there are more alt costumes, and that's great. The opinion is that they all suck anyway. But we've seen one alt costume (with a variation) for every character, and personally I already like a couple of them more than the defaults, so I'm not too worried about that. How can you be concerned about the quality of alt costumes because one person didn't like them more than the original?
Unless he's talking about stats, which is something I care much less about, but I can totally see why others would disagree.
Another example would be the economy, it doesn't give you a lot of gold, and if you just heal your way through the encounters, you'll be left with little money to buy cool stuff, but I think that's very interesting. I guess I'll adopt my Bloodborne strategy of spending the leftover money from upgrades to buy potions. Again, it's totally fine to disagree with me on this, and think that it's a bad thing (a lot of people hate the vial system in Bloodborne too, since I mentioned it), but I'm seeing people saying "the game doesn't give me enough money, that sucks". How the hell do you know that? We know it doesn't give the player A LOT of money, but if it's enough money, it'll depend on how you play. Personally, I tend to avoid healing during battles in games like these that have both general health decrease and gray health, and I save my healing items to restore my general health once the battle is over.
The one thing I can't see ending up being positive is the forced stealth. The only example of forced stealth segments in a non-stealth game being great that I can think of is the one in the Iconoclasts demo, but it lasts like 2 minutes. Hours of this would be boring as shit.
Their negative impressions on the plot are concerning, but not totally unexpected. Does the full article touch on end-game content? Optional high level hunts, bosses and stuff like that? I'm assuming they'll take place in the open world area of the game, and that's already some really cool incentive to go back and explore some more, imo.
Mister Megative
Banned
it sounds bad to me bro
i hope you can manage to accept my opinion bro ¯\_(ツ
As I thought.
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