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Fable: Xbox Game Studios chief says people need to realise games now take 4-6 years to make
yurinka
Member
Every generation you have:
- Better textures/materials, better models, better lighting, better animation stuff... and all this means more work
- More standard features, which means more work
- Bigger map sizes/longer game duration, meaning more stages, backgrounds, enemies, npcs, music, level design, weapons/abilities/stuff to unlock... which means more work
- As development budget increase, they need more revenue to keep being profitable, so they also increase marketing budgets, which also means more work
- To get more revenue, they also put more effort into post launch content and monetization, in many cases going GaaS. Which means more work to have people developing and fixing stuff, designing, implementing and monitoring all these related things (events, seasons content, progression, retention, monetization...)
There was covid in the middle, which in most AAA cases caused a 6-12 months delay.
There was also a new generation release, which often requires extra time to learn the new platform, update engines, make extra ports, etc.
In some of these cases they also were acquired, meaning there was some months being integrated, etc.
In some other cases they are also work on a new IP, which means extra work required to build a new world, characters, lore, prototype mechanics, find an artstyle, etc.
5-6 years is the most common case for AAA games being released now, in some case 4 years, but in other cases more than 6 years.
You also have to understand when a team started to develop a game. As an example, Hellblade 2 director said a year ago that they were in preproduction building the vertical slice, before moving to full production. So Hellblade 2 entered full production late 2022/early 2023, which I think that the 2024 release is totally false and they know it won't released in 2024.
I think the issue with them is not that games are taking too long: it's that they were announcing too early, when the games weren't even in full production, many years before their release. When players are used to get a game announced around a year or two before release.
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Fredrik
Member
Yeah, and that’s for a regular sized project. The really huge ones might literally skip a whole console generation if they start the development at the start of the generation. And as if that wasn’t stressful enough, if they start too early it might show that it’s not built from the ground up on the new console and get criticised for that. Brutal.
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tmlDan
Member
I agree with you but they have already conditioned the consumer to think shorter games are a negative.
People refer to miles morales, as an example, as "DLC" and "too short", when it is the same length as most full priced games were a couple of gens ago
Hypereides
Member
I'd argue its a stakeholders issue. Their top client investors would be deeply displeased if a respective company figurehead came out to state that they'd be planning to veer off from a progressive path.
You'd see some stakeholders' interest drop like a rock if they foresaw no future in this industry. The big publishers have painted themselves into a corner and they're pressured to keep plowing forward regardless of the circumstances.
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
Makes sense. Most big games do take that long.
Kataploom
Gold Member
ER is a beautiful game, one of the best looking ones in my eyes to date. But here many complain saying it looks "dated", "ugly", etc. Just because rendering techniques are not on par with HFW for example (a game that looks unwatchable/ugly to me, curiously enough).
If games tend to go for Elden Ring kind of productions values they will be harshly critiqued for the same but they're not Elden Ring. That's why I prefer AA industry these days, they are the AAA of yesterdays, more compact experience with usually way more creative art direction and I'm happy to see devs are happy with like 1-2 millions sales due to smarter use of budget/time, which may ensure a sequel of a game I loved, like Plague Tale Requiem.
AAA gaming is bloated, risky, etc. It's far from a healthy segment of the industry.
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YeulEmeralda
Member
Oh yeah 360 was a great time for me.
Saber
Gold Member
Even though I agree with you, that wasn't the point. The point here is that Xbox Game Studios said that people need to "realize" that games take more time, when this has being a thing for quite a time and I'm pretty sure most are used to it.
The thing here is how you make use of that time. Cyberpunk took ages to release, didn't used re-used assets and its launch was a disaster. Its nothing new that the management at Xbox sucks and the only thing people quote me for is for spinning, as if it makes any difference. Fable could be using re-used assets for all I care, wouldn't matter. Whats matter is the end result, no matter how people try to spin this as a defense.
They only had 4 studios, and most of the acquisitions did have projects nearly finished or more than half way through with contracts bounded by other companies, that's why some of them were multiplatforms.
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FlyyGOD
Member
Spiderman is still using same engine it's used on ps4. Devolpment doesn't take long if you're using a old engine.
Wildebeest
Member
So its ten years plus if they want to make a really good game that stands out from the crowd. Viable business.
LostDonkey
Member
C'mon lol reskinning the same game over and over isnt what he is talking about.
LostDonkey
Member
Rubbish. Look at Naughty Dog and Rockstar, Two of the highest rated teams in the industry. How long between their last games?
Wildebeest
Member
RPG had a longer development, then around the time of GTA3 all the developers decided that RPG levels of extra menus and progression were required in all top games. Now, a real traditional RPG is faster to make than some top budget action game with high production and tons of bolted on progression and crafting systems.
Who is the "they"? Publishers? I think publishers were responding to gamers in a different era that caused this.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Yes but my point stands: Cut corners using better art direction to overcome technical complexities, re-use assets, etc. And you'll have of people complaining, that's why they don't do it.
But to be fair, those are just a loud minority, probably devs listen to them too much, or maybe the audience for most AAA games care about that so much more than ER audience, idk, truth is you'll see many "gamers" complain on internet when they cut corners on AAA industry. And even so, ER was a total success and it's the epitome of assets re-use, maybe devs should take example and ignore those people.
Ar¢tos
Member
Deracine, Sekiro, Armored Core are not "souls" reskins...
DS3 - 2016
Deracine - 2018
Sekiro - 2019
ER - 2022
Armored Core - 2023
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Syphon Filter
Member
It depends on the game, what the scale and scope of the game is,etc. Indie games mostly won't take that long as long as they got enough people working on it. For some games it wouldn't take as long if they stopped focusing on useless things like long cutscenes and micro transaction stores.
Varteras
Gold Member
When Insomniac and FromSoft are pushing out releases as frequently as they do, you have to wonder what they're doing differently that makes everyone else look like they're dragging their feet. It's not the amount of people either. Companies with more people than them can't even come close to managing their output. In the span of 10 years, FromSoft has put out 8 games. Not including remasters. Insomniac has put out 17, again, not including any remasters. Of those, at least 7 were major projects.
Fake
Member
I do agree, but not my point. My point is how devs/ceo takes critics out of proportion.
semiconscious
Member
'nuff said...
LostInTime
Banned
The majority of games that are made today reflect that. Why does most games have to be based on a dorky franchise or have cartoon graphics? Why can't we get anything mature anymore.
Gambit2483
Member
Naughty Dog got screwed by the higher ups pushing to make their game more of a GAAS which conflicts with their typical style of multiplayer. They were most likely experiencing development hell.
Rockstar lost several Key people integral to the GTA franchise and also got complacent with GTA Online raking in the money. This was probably a case of both development hell and flat out greed and complacency as GTA Online alone was brining in like 500 million dollars a year. This is solely a Rockstar/Take2 thing as most publishers can't rest on their laurels while making more money than everyone else year after year.
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Varteras
Gold Member
It's also a problem when you haven't released many games, certainly not many impactful ones, for over 10 years. When these games start coming in, and assuming they're frequently big deals, then people will be fine. But a bunch of Pentiments mixed in with some Redfalls and the occasional Starfield (assuming it's awesome) isn't going to cut it. Your competitors have been dropping bangers non-stop. Your fanbase wants that, too. Until you deliver, you deserve to be yelled at. Your problems are not their problems and your problems were self-inflicted anyways.
Umbasaborne
Banned
Puscifer
Member
How long is this sustainable though? It's really blowing my mind a Silent Hill 2 remake is taking as much time as it took to develop 2 - 4, 3 entire games over a 4 year period.
Fake
Member
There are loads of 'mature' games already dude unless you had spend the last 4 years inside a rock.
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sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Games taking as long to develop as it takes to develop new cars (from scratch) is just showing that the gaming industry doesn't know what its doing. You have individuals creating experiences in UE5 within weeks.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This doesn't seem like a hard thing to figure out. Just show it 1 to 2 years max before release and you'll be fine.
Elden Ring development started in 2017. Release in 2022.
5 years. At least try to do some basic research before jumping in
kvltus lvlzvs
Banned
Perhaps we are moving in the wrong direction. I remember when all 3 ratchet and clank games - absolutely fucking killer games - came out within a couple of years of one another. We can have both big aaa ultra grafix moviegames and also fun lightweight games that are a joy to play. If anything, old PS2/Xbox/GameCube style games should require even fewer resources to create and the same amount of time used to create the original would yield a more polished game nowadays.
tmlDan
Member
What are you even talking about, they, as in developers. What do publishers have to do with this and what "era" are you referring to? this is everyone's expectations now.
Every game is over 15 hours now at the AAA category
Cryio
Member
Doing Ratchet 1 through 4 caused MASSIVE burnout for Insomniac during the PS2 era and every sequel had LESS content or features than the previous game. Sure, they also added new stuff, but the time crunch was brutal.
Fake
Member
Elden Ring development started in 2017. Release in 2022.
5 years. At least try to do some basic research before jumping in
Between 4~6 LOL
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
At least they didn't announce it 4 years ago. Same with From, they announce within a year or two at most of release.
Also, most studios work on multiple projects in tandem so you have a revenue stream incoming when you release a game as you're working on the next up to be released, then more delegation to the next project and so on.
Multiple teams doesn't mean two completely separate studios under one roof. A lot of those multiple teams are working on both projects being pulled and designated when necessary. It's an ebb and flow.
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Took them 5 years to make Elden Ring. You really think game development can only start when it’s revealed?
Yes, announcing them later changes the development time /s
Good thing he said four, five and six years for most devs as standard, eh?
Also, games are different in scope, and some games demand more background work and resources. Sucker Punch made Ghost of Tsushima in 6 years, for example. They had great leadership and a solid team, but talked about taking time to fine tune the combat etc.
Insomniac is taking at least 4 years to make Wolverine. Capcom just postponed Pragmata indefinitely. Dragons Dogma 2 has been in development since at least 2020, and is widely expected to release in 2025. It’s a massive open world game that’s claimed to be 4x the size of the original. Something you’re claiming is ‘mismanagement’.
This just feels like low effort, low knowledge warring for no reason.
Saber
Gold Member
Elden Ring development started in 2017. Release in 2022.
5 years. At least try to do some basic research before jumping in
This isn't a new thing now. Most of games already had big year cicles, its nothing new.
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