I've read that he was treated at the scene and deemed in good enough condition to ride in a cruiser to the station. It said he received medical attention the next day. All of this is apparently from the "source" within the department.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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I've read that he was treated at the scene and deemed in good enough condition to ride in a cruiser to the station. It said he received medical attention the next day. All of this is apparently from the "source" within the department.
WOW!!!!! Already labeling him as guilty before getting all the facts!! Isn't he innocent until proven guilty? Or does that not apply anymore?
From cnn.com:
What a stupid poll question. Why should he be arrested if he is innocent? Let's have the police do their job and if they believe he is guilty of a crime, arrest him then.
If you honestly think the lawyers won't mention anything about size than I don't know what to say. I am willing to bet the prosecution will be using full body shots of Martin to show to the juror the boy who overpowered Martin.
Devolution
Member
Police already proved they're too inept and possibly worse. Cops don't decide guilt or innocence, juries and judges do, what the fuck is this.
I feel for Zimmerman. Is this world even worth living in if you can't stalk a african american minor while armed and aren't allowed to shoot him dead in self defense after provoking him.
No but seriously, he may be lying...lets ask Trayvon, the other party involved for his opinion...
empty vessel
Member
The allegations known do not reflect he was getting beaten to death. He didn't even get medical treatment, according to reports.
Even if he were getting beaten to death, that would not necessarily be sufficient to permit him to kill Martin. If he were the aggressor under law, then there was imposed upon him an additional duty that he "exhaust[] every reasonable means to escape" the danger before using deadly force.
soundahfekz
Member
My brain had a meltdown from this post
So here's a picture of a fucking Smuckers factory
But the police work with the DA to find out if they have a case. No point in wasting tax payer money if he didn't break any laws.
Mammoth Jones
Member
This. I don't give a fuck. Unless you're LITERALLY talking 150 pound MASTER martial artist that trains fucking constantly....your **average** 150 pound citizen is going to lose each and every time to a 250 pound **average** citizen in a fight. So this notion that Zimmerman had no choice but to fire in defense of his life as Treyvon sat on him, pinning him, slowly chocking the life out of him is just laughable.
Zimmerman got scared. Shot the kid. End of story.
My logic is you can't be an aggressor then claim self defense. The two are mutually exclusive. Following a kid that long that wasn't doing jack shit is being an aggressor. The law in Florida is wrong if it allows this. Even the dude that cowrote the law said this wasn't the intent of the law. It was meant to stop kidnappings, carjackings...etc. Wasn't meant for popping black dudes with skittles and ice tea.
What do you think would have occurred if Trayvon was white and Zimmerman was black? Do you think there wouldn't have been an arrest?
soundahfekz
Member
You do realize 3 people have already been banned for pulling this same shit right? an arrest still provides the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. You're a big boy. I'm sure you know this already.
You're going after the wrong person brah. Read my post again, I'm in agreement with you.
My brain had a meltdown from this post
So here's a picture of a fucking Smuckers factory
I don't get it. He very well may be guilty, but none of us know all the facts. So you believe people should be arrested because they may possibly have committed a crime? And then how long should they be held? Weeks, months while the investigation continues? You're right. That's the better option. Let's just have people arrested for an indefinite period of time with no recourse.
It's LM4sure, the same guy that said minorities should get used to racism. This isn't unexpected. It's pretty clear what his agenda is.
Devolution
Member
I think when a 17 year old unarmed kid ends up dead in your arms by your fucking bullet, you get arrested and a real investigation happens. You don't let the guy go to clean everything up and tell the family "his story checks out."
Mammoth Jones
Member
Wait...I know we're in agreement. I'm just sayin'. Blows my mind people even debating it like that.
Baconsammy
Banned
Make up your mind. First you talked about untrained fighters and now you're talking about trained fighters.
The same shit in stating that the police force works with the DA to determine if the suspect committed a crime? Ok, so maybe they could have arrested him and questioned him, but how long are they going to hold this guy? It's been a month and they're still investigating. So he should have been in jail for the past month?
Granted, the DA needs to get his shit together and figure out what he is going to do, but what should happen with the suspect until that happens? Is he supposed to remain locked up?
Isn't that normally what happens?
soundahfekz
Member
The jokes write themselves. Anyone who is arrested is arrested because they MAY HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME. That's why we have that big shiny blind bronze lady with two cocaine scales called JUSTICE. Her and the jury are pretty efficient at settling these matters.
Dude Abides
Banned
That's cute. I'm a member of the New York bar and have been discussing the statute in this thread, with other lawyers like empty_vessel. Tell me, counselor, what's your area of practice? Besides fighting games that home your instinct, of course.
You should have just said you're incapable of having an intelligent discussion and left it at that.
Mammoth Jones
Member
The police definitely fucked up. They should have at least taken him in for questioning and not let him possibly get rid of any evidence. And because of their fuck up, this guy might go free.
The Incarnation
Member
They're like fucking herpes.
I'm sure the vast majority of them do it just to get a rile out of black people..
Same as those who post in Hiphop threads and say I hate rap or rap is shit and the like.
They are investigating? They were investigating?
empty vessel
Member
So, I agree with you and all about not keeping people in prison pending trial, but aren't you a conservative? Don't you actually believe that people should be jailed before trial? Or is it just when black people are killed by white people that you think the presumption of innocence should ever be enforced?
Not to suggest they did their jobs properly in every measure, but he was brought in and questioned.
Zimmerman ignored the police when they told him not to confront the suspicious black kid who was committing the crime of walking.
Zimmerman was armed and shot the kid.
Police corrected witnesses to mirror Zimmermans account of self defense.
Trayvon, if fighting Zimmerman, was exercising his right of self defense. But only had skittles, tea, and no drugs in his system.
It is unacceptable to not drug test zimmerman at the scene of a homicide.
---- Here is what will blow your mind.
You believe that a man can stalk and murder a minor without being arrested.
You don't believe a person can defend themselves against an armed stranger.
What possible facts paints Zimmerman as the victim here. Enlighten me.
The "DONT KNOW ALL THE FACTS" Brigade is absolutely pathetic. When more facts surface, you're still going to ignore them, as everyone on the DKATF has been doing, in hope of finding _______________ fill in the blank.
Newt Gingrich
And oh yeah, the Author of the Stand your ground law:
Rep. Dennis Baxley
These are the reasons that Zimmerman was let go. He should be under arrest for this.
Right. And how long are they held for? It's been a month. So this guy should still be held while the DA figures out if he is going to charge him with ANYTHING?! I say the DA should get his shit together and figure out how they are proceeding with this case.
The DA is not going to take a case to court he knows he can't win. I don't know about this stand your ground law, but I'm sure they're looking at it to see if it's a reasonable defense. If it's not then he'll be arrested and charged with a crime. But they can't hold him forever without charging him with something. And what are they going to charge him with? First degree murder? Second degree? Manslaughter?
The DA needs to figure his shit out and what gives them the best chance of getting a guilty verdict. If no charge will get them that, they can't just arrest the guy because the circumstances are shit.
Baconsammy
Banned
Study harder, counselor, because in Florida if you're being stalked you HAVE THE RIGHT to defend yourself. You don't need to be a lawyer to know that. LOL at your infantile last comment. Military honed my fighting skills, thank you very much.
Can we stop this nonsense? Please? Most of you don't want a discussion, you want an echo chamber of comments wondering just how guilty Zimmerman is. Suck it up.
Can we post the legal definition of stalking again? That's always a fun exercise every few pages.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You also don't have a narcotics investigator handle a homicide investigation and you don't only check for the influence of drugs and alcohol on the homicide victim and not the shooter .
I don't think Zimmerman is the victim. Definitely not. He is scum, but did he break the law? It seems like there are some questions as to whether he was actually attacked or not, and I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure some people here are so they can provide more details about the law and this stand your ground defense. My thought is that the DA needs to figure out how to proceed, and I don't think anyone should be held for an indefinite time why the DA tries to figure that out. If they arrest him they have to charge him with a crime. But what crime??
BattleMonkey
Member
Stalking is not considered something you can kill someone in self defense over, even in Florida. When you are forced to kill someone in self defense, it had gone beyond stalking
MightyHealthy
Banned
My brain...I don't even
Hah, that's amazing. Black kid runs away from white man, gets shot, no arrest, White kid crosses the street to get in black grandpa's face, cops give it a try.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I just want Zimmerman to be tried. That's it. I'm not looking for him to be ANYTHING else at this point. But if you can't comprehend how people are outraged that he hasn't been arrested considering the circumstances then you're being intentionally obtuse.
I'm not sure who you're arguing against. I don't think anyone here is saying Zimmerman should be jailed indefinitely before he's charged.
Dont worry, the author of the law has already said the law doesn't apply. And he committed the crime of killing a human being.
Like I said, its mind blowing that you think a person in the modern world can murder another, say self defense, and not be at LEAST arrested and if bailed, told to not leave the state while the investigation is underway...
Its hyperbole..
soundahfekz
Member
It's like you aren't even processing what's being said.
Trained or untrained, WEIGHT MATTERS. The more you weigh, the better chances you'll win a close quarters fight.
A trained fighter can remain calm much longer than the average joe, but we all have a threshold where technique goes out of the window.
These two statements are not mutually exclusive.
He doesn't understand how the justice system works. Bail and being bondable don't exist in his version of the world apparently.
Dude Abides
Banned
You gonna cite a statute or case to support that assertion, Mr. JAG, or does the military only teach empty bluster these days?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I'm confused, who is the stalker/killer in this scenario?
BruiserBear
Banned
This.
I don't think Zimmerman deserves a first degree murder charge, but I definitely think he should be charged with some form of manslaughter.
As written, IF Zimmerman turned his back and went towards his truck, away from the boy who he had lost sight of, he can legally defend himself with deadly force. Even if he was the initial aggressor. The idea that there exists no details that could cover Zimmerman under the Florida law is wrong.
You know that the investigations (the real ones, not the half assed inept shady cover up one by the Sanford PD) only started like last week right? And it only happened because the internet made a huge whine about it. The media circus is the only reason why investigations are even happening.
Summary: The nation DEMANDING him be arrested is the only reason why these investigations are happening.
I don't know who you were targeting with this post, but it has nothing to do with my comment.
OF COURSE they don't know this.
They see a thread of a bunch of angry blacks having a "LYNCH MOB" so they fall over themselves coming to the defense of not knowing all the facts yet..
They have to know Zimmermans side of the story, and what exactly made him ignore police when they told him not to follow the victim. Because that will some how make his death less malicious..
Trayvon evidently stalked Mr. Zimmerman in reverse, meaning he was walking forwards in front of the man in the car. This is reverse stalking and maybe a crime. When Zimmerman left the car to confront Trayvon, for reverse stalking him, against police dispatcher advise, Trayvon nearly killed him. It took everything in Zimmerman's power to get Trayvon, a trained martial artist, off of him to shoot him.
:/
BattleMonkey
Member
It doesn't really apply to the scenario of this case.
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