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FF7 Remake: Japanese controversy regarding new Aerith design

mortal

Gold Member
Barrett looks way more middle eastern than pure white as people are saying.

The internet was a mistake. What a bunch of children.
I'm embarrassed for them. It's obvious these people are virtue signaling for social media. Pretending to be outraged.

Any rational person can see that he is clearly staring down a giant charging blue laser, while fire burns around him.
 
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Fuz

Banned
Her mouth and chin are weirdly positioned and the nose is a bit too long (but that's true for the official and retouched version).

TBH I find Barret worse in terms of design, he looks like Wesley Snipes in Blade more than a burly black guy inspired by Mr. T.
 
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lock2k

Banned
I'm embarrassed for them. It's obvious these people are virtual signaling for social media. Pretending to be outraged.

Any rational person can see that he is clearly staring down a giant charging blue laser, while fire burns around him.

Also, what makes me sick is the fact that whenever a change pleases those fuckers, it's all fine and dandy.

ex: TIfa hipothetically having smaller breasts; or fucking Bow from She-Ra, check him out:

A ginger and bearded guy, changed to a black character to please those idiots. Everyone is pleased.

pZdwWPz.jpg


Hipothetically, do the same for Barrett, but opposite. Everyone fucking loses their minds.

They use this argument that "it's their character, they can do whatever they want to them" if it fits their virtual signaling agenda. But if it doesn't, it's outrage city.

I'm not saying they changed Barrett, these assholes are stretching, but even if they did, isn't it their choice?

The double standard and hypocrisy makes me sick.
 

Frizzie

Banned
I have looked at both images for a while and prefer the original. She looks just a bit more distinctive which would suit her origin. I have no problem with either though, both are very nice.

I would hope they don't interfere to much with Tifa's model aswell but to be honest I think remaking the game is a mistake. It was something that was being clamoured for and probably seemed a good idea at the time but I see it being extremely divisive regardless of how good or bad it might be.

I think it looks great but even though I loved the original I don't put it on a pedestal so nothing about the new version will offend me. I really hope it works out as well as every one hopes and doesn't tarnish the original.
 

E.T. Waifu

Member
This obsession with Tifa's design feels sooo blown out of proportion. It's hardly that big of a fucking deal in the end. They'll have her in her original outfit with new minor details to modernize her Remake design like Cloud and Barret, and likely everyone else. She'll have boobs, and she likely have a skirt. If anything they probably even add the option to customize outfits like in most modern RPGs. That way everyone will be happy.

No matter where you go, every fucking thread involving the FF VII Remake devolves into Tifa and whether or not she'll have big tits or a great reduction. Or if her outfit is this or that or whatever. I barely fucking cared when I played FF VII as a kid, and don't care that much now.
Yeah exactly. But I believe they'll add shorts under skirt this time.
 

mortal

Gold Member
Also, what makes me sick is the fact that whenever a change pleases those fuckers, it's all fine and dandy.

ex: TIfa hipothetically having smaller breasts; or fucking Bow from She-Ra, check him out:

A ginger and bearded guy, changed to a black character to please those idiots. Everyone is pleased.

pZdwWPz.jpg


Hipothetically, do the same for Barrett, but opposite. Everyone fucking loses their minds.

They use this argument that "it's their character, they can do whatever they want to them" if it fits their virtual signaling agenda. But if it doesn't, it's outrage city.

I'm not saying they changed Barrett, these assholes are stretching, but even if they did, isn't it their choice?

The double standard and hypocrisy makes me sick.
Rules for me, rule for thee.
 
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One of the rare things on which japanese are still better and smarter than westerners: they are absolutely right on that crap design.

There's not even a debate that this is a better design, more truthful, better equilibrated, better stylisation etc...

99KGU7s.jpg
 
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stickkidsam

Member
People are so obsessed with fictional female characters' looks nowadays... everything is analyzed to death, like what they wear, how big their breasts are, how long the legs, skin color... I don't remember this like that from the past, this extreme scrutinizing and negativity.

Creating a female character in media is a daunting task in today's world.
Once upon a time people were allowed to just make a character and if they had big titties, people would be happy and vice versa.

Nowadays there's always a back drop of worry that social justice will some how interfere with the design process.

Remember when conservatives were bitching about violence and whatnot? I miss those days. They were simpler times...
 

Conan-san

Member
I like to think that Square cares more about the massive amount of people who can take a joke than the small bitchy portion that takes everything personally.

I know I might be disappointed though...
Nevermind that side of things (Though I can see an op ed or two coming from whatever remains of Kotaku's ashes), Square themselves might omit the sequence under the stupid idea that the fun and amusing sequence where the main character cross-dresses to sneak in to a don's sex dungeon and make sure his friend is safe might be just a little bit too silly for their serious game about serious, dark, brooding Cloud Strife the only man whose sword size is matched by his monthly hair gel bill and his creator's superhuman ability to COMPLETELY MISS THE FUCKING POINT OF HIM AS A CHARACTER.
 

stickkidsam

Member
Nevermind that side of things (Though I can see an op ed or two coming from whatever remains of Kotaku's ashes), Square themselves might omit the sequence under the stupid idea that the fun and amusing sequence where the main character cross-dresses to sneak in to a don's sex dungeon and make sure his friend is safe might be just a little bit too silly for their serious game about serious, dark, brooding Cloud Strife the only man whose sword size is matched by his monthly hair gel bill and his creator's superhuman ability to COMPLETELY MISS THE FUCKING POINT OF HIM AS A CHARACTER.
tenor.gif


I had not considered this possibility and I want it out of my brain...
 

wzy

Member
Here's a fun question we can all expect some really thoughtful, straightforward replies to:

Why the qualifier? "Japanese fans". Hmm. It's a little conspicuous, isn't it? Because how could being Japanese have anything to do with it? Why wouldn't you just say "fans"?
 

stickkidsam

Member
Here's a fun question we can all expect some really thoughtful, straightforward replies to:

Why the qualifier? "Japanese fans". Hmm. It's a little conspicuous, isn't it? Because how could being Japanese have anything to do with it? Why wouldn't you just say "fans"?
I assume to point out the regional differences in fan expectations, since I can imagine fans over there being more partial to a rounder, more stylized face.

Alternatively it could be an effort to "legitimize" the complaint since it's coming from the homeland of glorious Nipon.

I can understand finding the face a bit off since it's a little longer than previous incarnations, but a controversy this is not. It's just rage/click baiting.
 
I don't understand why there's all the controversy about her design. They've been using this Aerith design for almost 15 years since Advent Children released. It's been in that movie, Crisis Core, Kindom Hearts 2, and several figures without this level of pushback from fans. Why is it a surprise they would keep the same character design for the remake?

0hX3JDs.jpg


The art style is the same as Advent Children, they are taking the character design, and the entire game, to the more realistically proportioned style used in AC and CC. The anime proportions do not work with realistic skin, eyes and teeth. While The Aerith model they show in the trailer is still in the uncanny valley, we're getting to the point where we're exiting the valley and things are starting to look really close. Changing the facial structure to an anime style will not help unless you lower the overall detail level on the character's face. That's not the art style of the rest of the environment though.

One of the rare things on which japanese are still better and smarter than westerners: they are absolutely right on that crap design.

There's not even a debate that this is a better design, more truthful, better equilibrated, better stylisation etc...

99KGU7s.jpg

It's perfectly debatable as it is all down to personal preference for starters, but also because the art directin partially dictates the character's facial construction. You prefer more of an anime style for the character, which is perfectly fine in certain circumstances. I argue that realistic female facial proportions make more sense given the environment, level of texture detail, and overall art style they are going with. None of the other characters have squat wide faces with those proportions so giving her those proportions will make her look out of place.

u1srdBX.jpg


qMDqTQK.jpg


To me, what you prefer reminds me of these:
yoL5eyr.jpg


They are completely faithful to the original proportions, and as a result look freakish.

Consider that in the image you posted Aerith is looking slightly away, if turned to the camera her face would be about an extra 1/4 the width of a normal human face, or about 1/4 the height. This works fine with super expressive drawn anime images that lack details like skin texture, realistic nose shapes and exaggerated eyes, but once those all get added in you run into issues because it starts to look weird.
 

wzy

Member
I assume to point out the regional differences in fan expectations, since I can imagine fans over there being more partial to a rounder, more stylized face.

Alternatively it could be an effort to "legitimize" the complaint since it's coming from the homeland of glorious Nipon.

I can understand finding the face a bit off since it's a little longer than previous incarnations, but a controversy this is not. It's just rage/click baiting.

Oh thank god. For a second there I was worried this was all super racist.
 
Weird since the one on the right looks more deformed Anime, while the Left looks closer to a real person. You'd think the JP's would like the right one.
 
I don't understand why there's all the controversy about her design. They've been using this Aerith design for almost 15 years since Advent Children released. It's been in that movie, Crisis Core, Kindom Hearts 2, and several figures without this level of pushback from fans. Why is it a surprise they would keep the same character design for the remake?

Your argument is a sophism: First of all this is not the design used in Crisis Core or Kingdom Heats (it's more round), also your proportion scheme doesn't work since it's not accurate in size and just scaled to correspond to line, and your exemple of realistic representations are exemples that are precisely made to be creepy.

Then I understand your point, I don't think there's subjectivity to that and there's absolutely by best judgement a better design, but it's really hard to juge indeed, if you prefer the "new" design which I would say is unfaithful, uncharismatic and overall has proportion and trait design, however I can only say I prefer (not certain if better, but pretty sure) the design in the exemple.

Let's see what Square-Enix does after prospecting.
 
I dunno, guys, when I rewatch the trailer, I'm just reminded that it looks more and more like Final Fantasy (not in terms of gameplay but visual aesthetic, concepts and themes etc).



People want to be critical of changes to Aerith and Barret but no one is talking about how Cloud looks better then when we last saw him or that we got our first glimpse of Sephiroth. If the change to Aerith is such a non-issue and people are overreacting, why give them the time of day? This is hardly a game breaker.
 
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Your argument is a sophism: First of all this is not the design used in Crisis Core or Kingdom Heats (it's more round), also your proportion scheme doesn't work since it's not accurate in size and just scaled to correspond to line, and your exemple of realistic representations are exemples that are precisely made to be creepy.

My argument was not a sophism. I altered the images in no way other than proportional X/Y scaling. I'm not attempting to pull the wool over your eyes, nor do I understand the benefit of doing so. :messenger_confused:

The examples I pulled from an image search are not altered to conform to the scale. The Pixeloo renderings are indeed creepy and exagerated, but I think your preferred version of Aerith looks weird too. Her eyes are too low on her face and her head is too wide for her proportions. It fits neither the conventional scale nor the manga/anime scale. Given that nobody else in the game exhibits those traits it would look jarring to see one character with different facial proportions.

The character models I used were from Crisis Core, Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts II, and official Square/Enix art.

Here's direct sources for you. Nothing is altered, links to videos included where applicable. Comparing the images directly together the facial structure is not much different between them.

Advent Children


Crisis Core



CznQWfz.jpg


Kingdom Hearts II


MwwI21Q.jpg


7 Remake


7OgBQvk.jpg


Square/Enix Statue


Kotobukiya Figure

Human proportion scales are among the first things I learned in art classes I've attended. Drastic departures from it will look odd unless the overall presentation accounts for the departure. To remedy this, you'd have to reproportion the character's body and you'd have to change all the characters in the game to match. Once you've altered every character to conform to the new style, they are now part of another style of imagery and no longer fit in with their surroundings. When all the characters are slightly more squat, the environments have to support that style, which they currently do not. Doorways, buildings, steps, railings, chairs, cars, Cloud's bike, etc. Everything must look proportionate to the changes or the whole package will look off. I can guarantee the artists that are working on this game have those things in mind and have put more thought into Aerith's design than either of us.

The game is clearly aiming for realistic proportions, as Final Fantasy has since Final Fantasy VIII (IX being an outlier). Ideally in art a realistically proportioned average height woman will be roughly 7.5x the height of their head (a man is 8x). I did not invent this scale, it has been used for a very long time, long before I was drawing my first stick men 37 years ago.

Examples of the body scale

The head scale is similar. Men and women use different scales here too, and there are variations on the scale but they all follow the same basic principles. The scale accounts for the majority of the earth's population. When expressionless, almost every person on earth's eyes are located directly in the center of their face. The distance from a person's chin to the base of your nose, then to your browline, then to the top of your head are three near identical measurements. Ears are nearly always between your browline and the base of your nose.

Then I understand your point, I don't think there's subjectivity to that and there's absolutely by best judgement a better design, but it's really hard to juge indeed, if you prefer the "new" design which I would say is unfaithful, uncharismatic and overall has proportion and trait design, however I can only say I prefer (not certain if better, but pretty sure) the design in the exemple.

Let's see what Square-Enix does after prospecting.

I don't prefer this design though, I grew up in the early '80s. I prefer how Final Fantasy looked before Final Fantasy VIII came around with realistically proportioned characters. Like you, I would prefer the game to have more charismatic, animated characters like the older titles. Final Fantasy IX got my hopes up but they went right back in X. I would prefer they remade all of Final Fantasy VII in a style closer to Final Fantasy IX. I would like to see a Final Fantasy that looked more like Yoshitaka Amano's artwork to be completely honest.

My argument was that since the game's artists are apparently going for the more realistic proportion approach they've adopted since Final Fantasy VIII and all the characters and environments follow that, changing Aerith will make her look disproportionate to her surroundings. If they are going realistic, I prefer they keep the proportions of characters in that direction. If they had chosen to be faithful to the original game, they wouldn't have gone the more realistic route they did. I think people arguing she should be left alone are correct, despite not really wanting the more realistic art style in Final Fantasy the model they made fits the game better as it is.

I don't expect them to change the design.
 

CJY

Banned
Your argument is a sophism: First of all this is not the design used in Crisis Core or Kingdom Heats (it's more round), also your proportion scheme doesn't work since it's not accurate in size and just scaled to correspond to line, and your exemple of realistic representations are exemples that are precisely made to be creepy.

Then I understand your point, I don't think there's subjectivity to that and there's absolutely by best judgement a better design, but it's really hard to juge indeed, if you prefer the "new" design which I would say is unfaithful, uncharismatic and overall has proportion and trait design, however I can only say I prefer (not certain if better, but pretty sure) the design in the exemple.

Let's see what Square-Enix does after prospecting.

What did I just read.
 
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stickkidsam

Member
What the shit, that's disgusting. They kept Barret's metrosexual fishnet tank top but couldn't keep Tifas tits the same?
I doubt it's real, but overall the outfit at least looks faithful.

What really bothers me is the downsized boobs on the icon for big boobs. Please don't Lara Croft her Nomura. Let the woman carry the weight of men's hopes and dreams!
 

lock2k

Banned
I doubt it's real, but overall the outfit at least looks faithful.

What really bothers me is the downsized boobs on the icon for big boobs. Please don't Lara Croft her Nomura. Let the woman carry the weight of men's hopes and dreams!

I never thought I would live to see the day big boobs became offensive. What's next? Burqa the shit out of those big boobed women? Outlaw big boobs and force them to have surgery? It fucking disgusts me.
 

SuoGrey

Member
No matter. I will mod the eventual PC version and if no mod exists I will make it my damn self. Tifa's tits will relive the same glory they had back in the cut scene we all remember!
 

NahaNago

Member
I doubt it's real, but overall the outfit at least looks faithful.

What really bothers me is the downsized boobs on the icon for big boobs. Please don't Lara Croft her Nomura. Let the woman carry the weight of men's hopes and dreams!

Those hopes and dreams would just get censored by Sony.
 
I'm honestly far less worried about cosmetic changes to a characters appearance. I'm far more worried about the game being fun, the story being more fleshed out and a larger, activity filled world to explore and interact with.

Also make reviving Aerith a long, tedious, difficult, agonizingly frustrating task that takes dozens of hours to complete a possibility. I want best waifu there with me during the fihal battle.
 

Whitesnake

Banned
Also make reviving Aerith a long, tedious, difficult, agonizingly frustrating task that takes dozens of hours to complete a possibility. I want best waifu there with me during the fihal battle.

Nah, fuck that.

Even if it involved doing every difficult or time-consuming optional thing in the game, bringing her back would both ruin the weight of her death and take away a lot of the weight of the ending.

Plus you already have a childhood-friend big-tiddy tomboy waifu who doesn't die.

Why would you pick Zack's sloppy-seconds over a top-tier waifu like Tifa?
 
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Nah, fuck that.

Even if it involved doing every difficult or time-consuming optional thing in the game, bringing her back would both the weight of her death and take away a lot of the weight of the ending.

Plus you already have a childhood-friend big-tiddy tomboy waifu who doesn't die.

Why would you pick Zack's sloppy-seconds over a top-tier waifu like Tifa?

Because I would chaff my dong too much furiously masturbating to Tifa's fun bags too often. Aerith gave me time to enjoy myself.
 
Aeriths is the equivalent of a pastor's daughter that likes to be a cock tease. When you finally can convince her that the lord is oft-forgiving and you smash, she doesn't suck dick or swallow. She pretends to be Mother Theresa, asks you what your favorite Bible verse is and has a shirt with a bible verse but doesn't know what it means. That's Aeriths.

Tifa, on the other hand, is the equivalent of an IG thot. If she ends up being annoying, give her some of that herb. She's willing to smash at all times, no Hail Mary effort needed with her.
 

stickkidsam

Member
I don't know about that. Have you visited the butt and boob thread in off-topic? Some of those hopes and dreams seem pretty realistic.
Oh I am quite familiar with those lovely folks ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

The realism of big beautiful bouncing boobs is without question. I meant more along the lines of how freaky hopes and dreams can get, if ya catch my drift.

*makes wafting motions*
 

Psajdak

Banned
Me during my first FFVII playthrough: When will this whore Aeris start sucking Cloud's dick?

...

And then Sephiroth comes, and kills her.
 
Me during my first FFVII playthrough: When will this whore Aeris start sucking Cloud's dick?

...

And then Sephiroth comes, and kills her.
During my first playthrough I kept wondering why she was a character, like was she part of the story? If you take her out of the game, it doesn't change much. It's still the same game. I think what happened was, they initially made her into an NPC at a shop selling flowers that you can buy to give them to Tifa to white knight her. However, they noticed her character model wasn't all that generic looking, and she stood out, so they were like let's make this into a playable character.

That Cat dude was a far more important character than Aeriths.
 
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