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Fighting Games Weekly | Mar 2-8 | Capcom does the Monster Nash

OceanBlue

Member
Uh how do you go from 6 to 2. 6 is forward 2 is down. You literally have to put effort into avoiding 3

Lol I can understand where he's coming from since I do it too. I don't know what DiscoShark does in particular, but I flick my wrist to do 632146 and sometimes they end up like this:


It's sloppy inputs for sure and something that can probably be fixed by just regular practice. Just putting this out there so hopefully people can understand one reason why this might happen.
 

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
I think it's just a habit in all games. I just don't think about it usually.

Man, literally no one is playing HDR on PSN. *sad*.

I think I have HDR on PSN lol. Add me, Yamithorn.

Edit:

OceanBlue, please tell me the anime your avy is from!
 

shaowebb

Member
Lol I can understand where he's coming from since I do it too. I don't know what DiscoShark does in particular, but I flick my wrist to do 632146 and sometimes they end up like this:



It's sloppy inputs for sure and something that can probably be fixed by just regular practice. Just putting this out there so hopefully people can understand one reason why this might happen.

Hate the player not the game?
lol...jk. Can't hate a guy for losing an input due to a square gate. That's why I don't use em. I'd miss every fucking diagonal if I did.
 

Manbig

Member
Great. We agree.



So... moving in Tekken is harder than moving in Marvel 3? What's your point? So they share no parallels as Fighting Games whatsoever?

I agree with your notion that good execution under intense situations is a big part of both games, and probably even more difficult than Marvel yes, but that's every fighting game ever. I can pick up KOF, DOA, SF, BB, whatever and get that out of them.

You see how I initially said just about zero things carry over between and Marvel? This is probably the one outlier that you were able to pull out and you were reaching quite deep.

My point was pretty simple. Remembering long strings of inputs in Marvel will not make you proper execute a backdash cancel in Tekken without getting launched out of a botched input and lose 50% - 70% of your one health bar because you got clipped trying to execute what SHOULD be a basic command. This even happens to some of the best players in the world sometimes and it's not hard to see when you've been playing for a while and recognize the situation, but is impossible to see to the untrained eye.
 

WarRock

Member
(sorry for the awful English guys)

I think the conclusion I gave is the most pessimist one and is balanced with the "Fight for the future" subtitle, embodied in the stories you noted. As for Oro and "the survivors" they might work in a sequel but wouldn't that be the beginning of a whole new mythology, one that goes beyond the Street Fighter one and builds something new? (I LOVE how this game asks questions about itself, nice having a chat about this!)
Well. Gouki, Ryu, Honda, Chun, Sagat, Boxer... all of the classic characters are essentially interpretations, some very close to the source, of classic martial arts romance/mythology. Some are based on actual persons (as are some SF3 characters)!

But the more the story went on, it became it's own thing, even though very japanese manga/anime inspired ('sup, Dictator).

As I see it, 3 was kinda of a response to new stuff in pop culture as whole (similar to how you compared GG/BB/Xrd as response to anime trends), distancing itself of older tropes (Shadaloo, Gouken's legacy, international super cops doing stuff (Guile and Chun)) while bringing new stuff to the table. The Illuminati is a big secret organization, but its iconology and inspirations are clearly different from Shadaloo. They aren't even clearly Big Bad Evil Guys, they don't have bullshit anime superscience, having religious influences instead! (Dhalsim has some religious influence, but that is basically reserved to out of the game materials and wasn't on his initial design AFAIK.)

Then we have Twelve, who you already analyzed, Dudley, Alex, Remy, Sean... all more modern interpretations of how to represent martial arts over the world, either on their role in the story, looks or inspiration. I mean, back in '92 Brazil was represented with a green jungle monster, now we have a black youngster who practices karate and travels to USA to get better.

Dudley gets the tired "refined english gentleman" trope and subverts it, being a rich black englishman who keeps such an oldschool lifestyle while being a not bare knuckle boxer with Hajime no Ippo inspired moves. Alex is a blond, strong american... without all the over the top patriotism or smugness. Unlike Ken, he is an underdog and is not a bread and butter character for newbies.

Ibuki and Makoto are reverse Sakuras in a closer to the year 2000 world. Our biggest throwbacks are Q and Oro. Oro is the classic pervert hermit, but even he is pretty new/original for SF lore. A japanese martial arts instructor who migrated to Brazil and learned a completely new art, turning into a yellow skinned guy who loves fast food and movies, so strong that he handicaps himself with fucking magic.

Q is a love letter to simpler times. His design is clearly a rip off/homage of classic 70's character who had nothing to do with martial arts. Robot Detective K was a tech miracle that wanted to find humanity while solved crimes related to his own creator, to the police force disbelief, his story having a very abrupt ending. Well, Q has no face, no story, no dialog lines. He is a relic of the past, clearly out of place, both in space and time. This is shown in his unorthodox and very direct fighting style (wild swings and haymakers, ahoy).

Not a thing about those characters or their visual presentation were done in SF before. 3 could be to SF what movie/book sequels try to be so many times: an evolution, a new age based on something already done. The Evangelion to Mazinger, if you allow me such an awful comparison.

I think that affirms the finality of the game. If you think about it everyone ends on a high note or with unanswered questions. Just because the game doesn't end in an absolute doesn't mean the next game will up the ante. That sort of thinking is what causes those nonstop anime power increases. To have E. Ryu and Oni be canon in SF would be awful and I think the Third Strike team were interested in avoiding that.
Oro pretty much denies this.

I don't know; Ono, in a interview for Eurogamer, I think, said that SF3 was pretty much the result of the best that the SF staff could do. Maybe all the higher themes and aesthetics experimentations were a reflex of what they thought as the peak of what could be done with SF.

Why should you not hit all the directions? How are you even skipping directions?
Didn't VSav and KoF allowed skipping one or two directions in more complex motions?
 

kirblar

Member
One of the issues with some of the characters is that they didn't represent anything recognizable to international players. When you look at the references for Dudley and Makoto's playstyles, Oro's "restrained master" trope- they're references to Anime series that aired only in Japan. Broad caricatures work well for SF since they easily translate regardless of where in the world you are. When they went with things only Japan would "get", they lost a lot of what made SF such a success in the first place.
 
Lol I can understand where he's coming from since I do it too. I don't know what DiscoShark does in particular, but I flick my wrist to do 632146 and sometimes they end up like this:

It's sloppy inputs for sure and something that can probably be fixed by just regular practice. Just putting this out there so hopefully people can understand one reason why this might happen.

Yeah this is pretty much exactly what's happening.

(sorry for the awful English guys)

Your english is perfect dude, if you hadn't said anything near the start of the post I would never have suspected that you weren't a native speaker. :p
 
I don't think Capcom wrote themselves into any kinda of corner or anything with SF3, storyline wise. It's like a comic book, or MK. Bring somebody back, dead, whatever. It just needs to serve a purpose of providing a cool character to use. I think they are just maybe making an easy familiar choice for fans. If they wanted, they could. It's a fighting game storyline for goodness sake! haha.

That's how I look at it. I don't pay attention to storyline in fighting games really, besides MK somewhat. Even there I don't really care, it's funny and entertaining and not serious. I have no idea why DeeJay is there, why he has maracas. What is motivating him. I mean,I know Bison is evil, Ken are and Ryu are buds and blah. And maybe a back-story of where their powers come from.

Onto GGXrd. I got it for PS4. I am not and have never been a GG fan really. I bought the old games and played through arcade mode a few times. I never knew why somebody is doing something or whatever.

But from this casualness, I formed my perception of how these character personalities would be with my imagination and how their VO sounded, their general wardrobe and their moves.

Man, I played Sol's story mode stuff. I wasn't at all like I thought he would be like, lol. I didn't really dig his voice acting and personality. I wish never played it, haha. It's like finding out how Jordan really was as a person.

Anyways, I have alot of these perceptions of GG in the past and my opinions on the new designs. Like, I guess I never payed attention and played on crappy screen, but I always thought Venom was wearing a full veil or something over his face with that symbol on it. I was totally wrong and I just learned from watching a in between cut scene.

I wanna type more, as I disagree with your Potemkin assessment Thomas. But Walking Dead is about to come on.......
 

Uraizen

Banned
To add to the execution issues, my most common ones were inputting them faster than I thought I needed to or pressing the before finishing the motion. So I would get 23A6 as an example. So if you're having trouble, take a moment to slow down and make sure you finish the motion before pressing the button.
 

alstein

Member
One of the issues with some of the characters is that they didn't represent anything recognizable to international players. When you look at the references for Dudley and Makoto's playstyles, Oro's "restrained master" trope- they're references to Anime series that aired only in Japan. Broad caricatures work well for SF since they easily translate regardless of where in the world you are. When they went with things only Japan would "get", they lost a lot of what made SF such a success in the first place.

Ippo isn't that uncommon among anime fans, and I think he has enough swag that people don't need to get it.

Is Makoto supposed to be a shoutout to Akane Tendo from Ranma?
 

kirblar

Member
Ippo isn't that uncommon among anime fans, and I think he has enough swag that people don't need to get it.

Is Makoto supposed to be a shoutout to Akane Tendo from Ranma?
I'm not sure who the specific reference is (been a while since I read the article explaining it), it wasn't something I was familiar with, so it might be that.
 

Azure J

Member
He's the legendary super lurker. Dude always drops gems in the stream chats.

I want to say it's Beef but I'm not 100% lol.
 

WarRock

Member
One of the issues with some of the characters is that they didn't represent anything recognizable to international players. When you look at the references for Dudley and Makoto's playstyles, Oro's "restrained master" trope- they're references to Anime series that aired only in Japan. Broad caricatures work well for SF since they easily translate regardless of where in the world you are. When they went with things only Japan would "get", they lost a lot of what made SF such a success in the first place.
I can't agree with this because SNK exists. Benimaru, Geese, Kim, Blue Mary... all of them are considered classic characters in Latin America without being broad caricatures. And nobody in, beats me, Chile, understood the Black Kamen Rider RX or Sun Vulcan references in KoF back then.

The public for (most) SF3 designs just wasn't there (and nowadays this has changed slightly). The public for Cammy/Guy/Zangief designs will always exist in comparison.

Your english is perfect dude, if you hadn't said anything near the start of the post I would never have suspected that you weren't a native speaker. :p
It's so fucking hard to try and get my points across. That's why I use mostly short sentences and simple verbs =P
 

Azure J

Member
One of the issues with some of the characters is that they didn't represent anything recognizable to international players. When you look at the references for Dudley and Makoto's playstyles, Oro's "restrained master" trope- they're references to Anime series that aired only in Japan. Broad caricatures work well for SF since they easily translate regardless of where in the world you are. When they went with things only Japan would "get", they lost a lot of what made SF such a success in the first place.

I'm kinda wondering how Dudley and Makoto (two of the most normal/easy to understand designs out of SF3's iterations) would be lost on audiences though. Makoto I could see a slight argument for in that she's in the same kind of gi and headband character mold, but the moment someone shes her move in a match, all shoto-like thoughts/assumptions should have left the building and been immediately replaced by "hey, she's the karate person!" Dudley is the boxer and inspires a sense of nobility/class versus the previous veteran boxer.
 

vulva

Member
So I saw this on *cough*eventhubs and thought I'd ask the same thing here. Who does everyone have as their pick for SXSW invitational to win the event?

To those who aren't sure who's in, this is the list:

Xian
Tokido
Snake Eyez
Sanford Kelly
PR Balrog
LPN
K-Brad
Momochi
Nuckledu
Kazunoko
Ricky Ortiz
Ryan Hart
Justin Wong
Hamad
Gamerbee
Daigo




Personally, I'm going with Kazunoko for this one.
 

pixelish

Member
So I saw this on *cough*eventhubs and thought I'd ask the same thing here. Who does everyone have as their pick for SXSW invitational to win the event?

To those who aren't sure who's in, this is the list:
(names)

Personally, I'm going with Kazunoko for this one.

in case you didn't realise the format of the tournament, it's a mixture of round robin and double elim. so, looking at the two groups it's really tough to say who will win but i can guess who won't make it to the knockout round of the tournament (kbrad & sanford in group a and hamad & nuckledu in group b)
 

vulva

Member
in case you didn't realise the format of the tournament, it's a mixture of round robin and double elim. so, looking at the two groups it's really tough to say who will win but i can guess who won't make it to the knockout round of the tournament (kbrad & sanford in group a and hamad & nuckledu in group b)

Hmm, I didn't realize but I stand by my choice of Kazunoko taking it.

In terms of knockout rounds I'd replace nuckledu with Ricky
 

Rhapsody

Banned
Lol I can understand where he's coming from since I do it too. I don't know what DiscoShark does in particular, but I flick my wrist to do 632146 and sometimes they end up like this:



It's sloppy inputs for sure and something that can probably be fixed by just regular practice. Just putting this out there so hopefully people can understand one reason why this might happen.

Happens to me too. Although I feel like my arcade stick is part of the problem. It's easy to miss the corners on mine.
 

Crocodile

Member
Just dropping in to say Thomasorus' posts have been great reading :)

Good posts Thomasaurus, better than reading about anime shows or what people think about animes or anything about animes really

LOL the irony

One of the issues with some of the characters is that they didn't represent anything recognizable to international players. When you look at the references for Dudley and Makoto's playstyles, Oro's "restrained master" trope- they're references to Anime series that aired only in Japan. Broad caricatures work well for SF since they easily translate regardless of where in the world you are. When they went with things only Japan would "get", they lost a lot of what made SF such a success in the first place.

Dudley is an English boxer and Makoto is a "karate girl". I don't think there is much to "not get" with them. If one really needs to point fingers, I'd aim them at Q (who is straight out of like Ultraman and other "Power Ranger"-esque shows), Necro or Twelve. Though to be fair are they really any more out there than Blanka? I guess its just the proportion of the cast as Blanka was the only "weird" one out of the classic 16.
 

jerry1594

Member
Oro pretty much denies this.

I don't know; Ono, in a interview for Eurogamer, I think, said that SF3 was pretty much the result of the best that the SF staff could do. Maybe all the higher themes and aesthetics experimentations were a reflex of what they thought as the peak of what could be done with SF.


Didn't VSav and KoF allowed skipping one or two directions in more complex motions?
I'm not sure if you understand me. Poster I replied to thinks there wasn't a sense of finality to 3S cause of all that stuff about Oro not unlocking his full potential, Ryu/Akuma destined to get stronger forever, etc. but I'm saying maybe the 3S team wanted to avoid that SSJ7 super powered anime trope, hence ended everyone's story on a high or ambiguous note, not really intending for it to be followed through.
 
He's the legendary super lurker. Dude always drops gems in the stream chats.

I want to say it's Beef but I'm not 100% lol.

Nah, my Twitch trolling days as Twitch_snitch are done. I was in the middle of a Sm4sh wifi tournament and went 5-2. Yoshi is so hard to hit...
 

Astarte

Member
Idols. I'll never understand it. They have to maintain some odd level of purity and not date anyone in public or they get ostracized and removed from said circle.

Lol I know that yams. It's a little weird for me too, but it's pretty much loving cute/cool people for doing cute/cool things and maintaining a purity so that even you can have a chance at them maybe. But heyyy if someone gets me some concert tickets I'm totally game.
 

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
FGW | I can't believe its 2D

damn you BakedYams... Now I'm all anime'd up :(

Now you have to tell me where that avy is from!

Lol I know that yams. It's a little weird for me too, but it's pretty much loving cute/cool people for doing cute/cool things and maintaining a purity so that even you can have a chance at them maybe. But heyyy if someone gets me some concert tickets I'm totally game.

lol astarte, people like that are kind of delusional by reading too much manga and watching too many adam sandler movies.
im guilty of both
 

Zissou

Member
Enjoying the continuing character design discussion! I think some 3S characters would resonate with an international audience. SFIII had other things holding it back aside from character design anyway (death of arcades, seeming decline of 2D fighters, lack of timely acceptable home ports, design off-putting to SF2 vets, etc.) so it's hard to disentangle all the variables- we can only speculate on the influence of character design vs. other factors when it comes to the games lack of success compared with its predecessor. The new characters with resonance were the ones the you could sum up with a short phrase: gentleman boxer, hulk hogan, andre the giant, etc. Some are more debatable- hermit martial arts master? karate tomboy? Some would be a hard sell even if I think they're cool looking (Necro? Urien? Remy?)
Remy doesn't look cool though, sorry Remy
 

WarRock

Member
I'm not sure if you understand me. Poster I replied to thinks there wasn't a sense of finality to 3S cause of all that stuff about Oro not unlocking his full potential, Ryu/Akuma destined to get stronger forever, etc. but I'm saying maybe the 3S team wanted to avoid that SSJ7 super powered anime trope, hence ended everyone's story on a high or ambiguous note, not really intending for it to be followed through.
And I'm saying that Oro is the SSJ7 anime trope.

Enjoying the continuing character design discussion! I think some 3S characters would resonate with an international audience. SFIII had other things holding it back aside from character design anyway (death of arcades, seeming decline of 2D fighters, lack of timely acceptable home ports, design off-putting to SF2 vets, etc.) so it's hard to disentangle all the variables- we can only speculate on the influence of character design vs. other factors when it comes to the games lack of success compared with its predecessor. The new characters with resonance were the ones the you could sum up with a short phrase: gentleman boxer, hulk hogan, andre the giant, etc. Some are more debatable- hermit martial arts master? karate tomboy? Some would be a hard sell even if I think they're cool looking (Necro? Urien? Remy?)
Remy doesn't look cool though, sorry Remy
One of the biggest problems is that nothing about SF3 character designs say "Street Fighter". People got used to 2 and Alpha. You could make Necro or Remy back in Hyper Fighting or whatever, but not with the type of visual language used in 3.

I have the same problem with the new SFIV characters, except Hakan. He's pure SF2 to me.
 
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