Karsticles
Member
Yeah. Marvel, Skullgirls, and BlazBlue are all too long.
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Fighting Games Weekly | March 24-30 | We talkin' bout brackets. Not a game, brackets.
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
This is why I was always a fan of ChrisG playing Morrigan in Marvel, right around the time he started dominating the scene. (so many haters back then) But, watching Morrigan play I felt like I was watching a neutral game the whole match. People trying to weave their way in and Chris defending, it's always been incredibly fun to watch. And my god, the control that man has over his women is amazing.
Smash finals
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp
Agreed. I still fucking hate Morrigan at my core for her air S and the standing low, but I love watching Chris G play. I remember when it started people were saying there was no escape and denying that people would get better at attacking the barrage of Soul Fists, but it really is fascinating how people have adapted and Chris G has counteradapted strategies over time. It's most noticeable in the legendary Season's Beatings FT15 between Chris G and Champ, and when you see Chris G adapting his patterns and both of them counterpicking teams, it's a beautiful sight. Marvel with mindgames, who knew!
Even seeing Alioune's completely different aerial-pressure-based Morrigan makes me excited to see how people will take her down.
toddhunter
Member
This made me laugh. Ladies and Gentlemen, FGW...
Seriously though, I agree in general. Leaving aside your lightning loops, Marvel combos tend to feel different because they start in different ways or at least different areas of the screen. For all their problems, you also have the chance of TACs, snap backs or simply the death of a character (but not the end of the game) to mix things up and keep you interested.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Marvel combos aren't usually so bad because at least your character has the decency to die before it drags on too long. >_> Unless it's a TAC.
I quit Skullgirls within about an hour of messing around in training mode because I didn't like the combo system, though.
I quit Skullgirls within about an hour of messing around in training mode because I didn't like the combo system, though.
The thing I remember most is over time Chris developing Morrigan from bullets and defense only, to going in and on the offense. Seeing that transition as people started getting used to playing against her FB game forcing Chris to balance out his strategy was tons of fun. Probably the best ~2 year period of marvel for me.
Yeah seriously, this tournament has been so strange with the matchups. There's been a fuckload of Falcons in this one though, including Lord (and Saviour) Lord.
Skullgirls combos are almost more annoying than Marvel combos to me. Probably a mixture of limp sound effects, less interesting visual effects, relatively low damage, and the fact that aerial hitstun can turn back into standing hitstun.
Street Fighter X Tekken combos are the worst, partially because they all start from whiff punishes and partially because they're way too long for a game with a SF-like neutral game. Ugh, what a pain.
The only super-long combos the world truly needs are basketball infinites.
Street Fighter X Tekken combos are the worst, partially because they all start from whiff punishes and partially because they're way too long for a game with a SF-like neutral game. Ugh, what a pain.
The only super-long combos the world truly needs are basketball infinites.
Karsticles
Member
When did you play? The system has changed a lot over time. I feel like Skullgirls is somewhere between MvC2 and MvC3 in combo feel.
??
irfaanator
Banned
believe it's a tv show
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Launch. I know things have changed but I can barely dedicate time to the one game I actually want to stay relevant in as it is.
Karsticles
Member
He said they all start from whiff punishment. Which I interpret as him saying no one actually gets opened up in the game, which makes it all the more frustrating.
I understand completely.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
You know what feels bad? Being at a major and having all the opportunity in the world to get some sets in with some top talent, only for it to feel like a complete waste of time for everyone involved.
First time that's happened. I need to make time to practice for real again.
EDIT: KOF13 and BBCP are up. Marvel tomorrow.
Stabby McSter
Member
I'M A FRANCHISE PLAYER
MikeBreezy92
Member
I'm trying to think of some games that have really long combos..and besides KOF, Marvel, Anime, and Skullgirls I really can't think of many.
Edit: SF x Tekken maybe?
Edit: SF x Tekken maybe?
Karsticles
Member
I have some notion of what that feels like. When I went to UFGT9 (the only noteworthy thing I've done, haha!) I was faced against Unknown, who, while not a top player, is a noteworthy player. Every single match I got the first hit on him, and I was using my Firebrand/Dormammu/Shuma-Gorath team, so that first hit should be a dead team if I do everything right. Every match, the same thing: dropping basic bnbs. The dumbest stuff won't come out, like Firebrand's swoops. The guys behind me tell me it's just nerves, and it's cool, but I'm raging here because even with the drops every match ends with a 1v1 anchor battle, so I know I have this in the bag if I could just do my basic stuff.
After the loss, I go into training mode and try to figure out what the hell went wrong. It turns out that my stick was set to "dpad" inputs instead of "analog" inputs, and that just fucks everything up. My inputs were fine - it was the stick setting! I felt like I wasted a real opportunity to show my strength at a tournament because of that, especially since I declined to go on stream out of embarrassment from those "dropped" inputs.
Really? How come dpad inputs result in that compared to analog?
high level falcon play makes me so happy
such a great tourney for falcons. s2j is quickly becoming a legit top player, not just a top falcon.
Seasoned Badger
Member
There shouldn't be any difference between dpad vs analog input on arcade stick that have the switch. It's mainly there so you can switch to the analog for games that doesn't support the dpad.
That's what I thought too, but I've heard a few people say the same thing he's saying. Some people just notice when the stick isn't on dpad mode and it's so consistent that I can't attribute it to anything else but a difference in how inputs are handled.
I really hope next gen comes with automatic local replay saving. I really like being able to send replays to friends or being able to grab replays from friends when we play Melty Blood on different computers.
WesternHeretic
Member
Your boy Harrison Barnes isn't looking like one. NEED IGGY!
Karsticles
Member
I haven't the slightest clue. It might just be a Marvel input reading thing, too. I tested it both ways in training mode after the match, and I couldn't get anything to come up. Maybe I have it backwards though, and it was on analog over dpad that messed it up. I can't remember because I never mess with that stick option. Of course, that's why I didn't recognize the problem in the first place! Haha. Carrying 2 fight sticks in a backpack has unfortunate consequences.
theprodigy
Member
*posts a video of a really slow Brawl tiltlock*
I always thought there was a big difference? I have a Madcatz TE and I always felt like the analogue stick function for fighting games was terrible because it's actually a d-pad really in terms of what a joystick is. I thought like people here said that it's just there to play other games that only have analog control.
It's that it's the best way to get a combo started in SFxT (due to the boost chains) and it does really bad things to the game because of how it warps people's play. It's not like whiff punishing in Marvel (which is about equal to what you gain out of opening someone up hardway) or in SF (where it's limited.)
I have no idea lol. I always play on dpad mode and I'm bad enough that when I miss inputs I can attribute it to sloppy execution or nerves. :V
Don't forget about the Cafe ID Global Tournament this weekend. About 25k on the line. KOFXIII, UMVC3, SFIV
http://www.twitch.tv/cafeid
Tons of talent from around South East Asia heading down, including Raise Your Wongers!!!
http://www.twitch.tv/cafeid
Tons of talent from around South East Asia heading down, including Raise Your Wongers!!!
Add in my +1 as well. It's the biggest reason my interest in most fighters has declined this gen.
The fact that KOF is considered a 'long combo game' is a symptom of the problem. Why the hell does KOF of all things have minute long combos? I definitely see it as an ever increasing trend.
I like how you list 'anime' as just a single game, lol. Most of the fighters coming out in 2014, or all of it maybe, is anime interestingly enough. We should probably start differentiating 'anime' into more sub-genres soon.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I really really hope they changed some of the pictures in the gallery for the american release of BBCP
Not enough sexy furry sideboob for you?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
As much as I'd love some more Tsubaki and Makoto stuff. The Plat and Rachel stuff.... no just no
Passive Assassin
Member
bala vs madkof exhibition?!
Combos that are too long are certainly detrimental to the game. However, I think longer combos can benefit certain very very fast paced games, since they allow the player getting hit a moment or two to think/strategize and they also allow for commentary time. I still think marvel combos are too long (for some characters, at least).
That can be done in other ways, such as Zanretsukens, long animation supers such as Ultras, or explosive moves such as Deathfists, or epic throws without something as boring as a long combo.
I do think some companies are reversing the trend, but it is a big problem. I also think this is one of the things that could send the genre into another dark ages. Much like how anime started preaching to the choir , if FGs keep catering too much to the hardcore base, they're going to lose people and not gain anyone, and eventually the system will collapse on itself.
And yeah, KOF turning into a long combo fighter is why I don't consider KOFXI or KOFXIII "real" KOFs to me. KOF was at its purest in 98 and 98UM was a worthy upgrade. (yeah I know, I sound like the KOF version of the ST hipsters I slam constantly, but I'll wear that with honor in this case)
DryEyeRelief
Member
I can't help but think of a new player I met locally who said, "If fighting games didn't have combos then there would be nothing to learn."
Long combos cater to those guys.
Long combos cater to those guys.
Don't hold your breath.
Don't you think he's placed consistently enough to be considered a top player? Or do you only consider the gods to be top players?
I'm not so sure its really that big of problem, and certainly not something every fighting game needs to worry about preventing.
I just like 98UM because Rugal has a decent hit-confirm, haha. He's so trash in regular 98 ):
Curious, do you have access to the full brackets for those games at FR? Or any other brackets for that matter? Any guidance here would be appreciated.
All due respect, your logic is incorrect. The second assumption cannot be made because you're ignoring the explicit condition for top 8 matches. As you state in the sentence after, top eight is a no-man's land when it comes to rules on this matter.
So, one hit x-factor. That makes videos I've seen make a lot more sense. Lots of risk/reward there considering red-health is the cost. Probably something used frequently if you were getting a cancel off it.
Never
let us
Agreed on Marvel, although I don't mind optimized combos. If anything, it helps me understand the game engine more and what can be done.
Long combos in any other game? Probably only interesting when you have a large crowd watching, like Evo top 8.
One of the best. Seriously, FGW would be so much better if we talked TV instead of anime sometimes (and anime doesn't count because some of you watch it on a TV screen).
Hold that.
My DVR was bodied because of the 41 minute delay. I'll be watching it tonight. I'll have a reaction tomorrow though, guaranteed.
Saw bits and pieces though as I scrubbed through it. I'm guessing it has to do with the vote fraud charges being brought against Peter.
I believe Justin Wong and Noel Brown are going to be there. Surprised more people aren't going out for Marvel, frankly, considering what most would assume is a relatively weak field.
Well it lasts until your combo ends but yeah. One other super important factor I forgot to mention, is that when you're hitting the opponent while baroque'd they gain SIGNIFICANTLY less meter. So if they are near getting those two bars, you should consider baroque-ing immediately so can't Megacrash out of the combo.