ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Looks damn cool. Except the aspect ratio, hehe.
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- Thread starter enzo_gt
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Looks damn cool. Except the aspect ratio, hehe.
Yes we are talking about creativity not just in combos but outside of them as well.
There isn't anything creative about Doom loops because everyone does the same variants (hence a combo that was once creative because it was unique has been used to the point where it has become routine). Watch some Doom combo videos, even he has a ton of variating combos.
Hell even such a vanilla combo character like Wesker has insane combo creativity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJRNK0nCVhM&sns=em
There isn't anything creative about Doom loops because everyone does the same variants (hence a combo that was once creative because it was unique has been used to the point where it has become routine). Watch some Doom combo videos, even he has a ton of variating combos.
Hell even such a vanilla combo character like Wesker has insane combo creativity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJRNK0nCVhM&sns=em
Which is why I was disagreeing on this point specifically.
As far as team creativity outside of combos, there is no such thing in TTT2 so it's a point that's not worth discussing here.
Outside of combos, yes, Marvel would be the better team game because TTT2 doesn't have any "assist" interference of any sort. But I am only referring to team combos, which both games feature.
Slamtastic
Member
Maybe it's Brian Drummond for Saiyan Saga Vegeta and SSJ Vegeta will be Sabat clips
Also maybe to have ovr 9000 lel as a special intro with Goku or something
DryEyeRelief
Member
You sound like Karsticles with that generalization. Probably because you're approaching it with a marvel perspective. Most Tag2 composition isn't your secondary helping your point, it's your point helping your secondary. Like if you have a character who is dangerous at the wall you pair them with a character with good pokes and good wall carry. This all results in your opponent being put in a pressure scenario he wouldn't otherwise been in against the character solo, just like...a new incoming mixup with an assist!
Also I'm tired of people tooting the idea of point character+horizontal assist in marvel as the epitome of creativity. RayRay was right shutting down the blind praise of punisher on his stream. Iron Fist/Hawkeye/Raccoon is the same fucking concept as Ryu/Magneto/Sent with different characters as substitute.
It's not that I don't have faith in your reporting or anything. And I didn't mean literally that you were making it up. All I'm saying is that I don't remember Sundance saying anything about "naming names" if MLG didn't get Street Fighter 4. I think I would've remembered seeing something about it here or on Twitter. I could be wrong though, I missed several days of reading FGCgaf about a month ago.
But really, it's because you don't like the Colbert Report.
You just described a combo scenario and it's hardly any from Firebrand raw tagging into Doom for superior damage and setting up the Sphere Flame into Luminous Body on incoming. It's a sequence that started because a player got hit ie. someone got hit for the team mechanics to come into play.
Let me put it into even simpler terms... your teammate does not help you get the opening hit. It's a 1v1 until someone gets hit. Your partner who is not in the field is not helping you in the footsies department, not helping you apply pressure, not helping you in defense. Most of the neutral is played 1v1 which means for a lot of the game the team mechanic isn't coming into play.
Compared to MVC2/MVC3 your partner is always influencing the neutral and the outcome of the starting character's battle. That's a more involved team game. I would say the same for Skullgirls vs SFxT.
And I was a TTT1 player far before a Marvel player so there is no clouding of my perspective. The superior team play of MVC2 is what attracted me to the series to begin with. Granted TTT2 has more team dynamics than TTT1... it is still not on the level of interaction seen in MVC2/MVC3.
Ok then it's a good thing then that the random ass team I proposed was not point/horizontal/lockdown but rather point/horizontal/vertical configuration.
Most of the praise of Punisher (IIRC) comes from him using Hawkeye as more of a rushdown character. That is very different from how most everyone uses that character. Plus his set ups are genuinely creative and unique to his team so I don't know why people should be going out of their way to discredit him for creative play. I guess RayRay mad salty that he is no longer the guy people praise for being creative. j/k
ArclightBorealis
Member
Just wrapped up the story mode in BlazBlue CP, along with all the gag endings. That was...something. Overall enjoyed it and could follow most of the concepts and plot points being tossed around given that this is my first BlazBlue, but that ending...gotta continue the story somehow in the sequel, I guess?
At least now I can focus on actually playing the game instead of having a visual novel read to me. Story stuff is done, now to practice and get good.
At least now I can focus on actually playing the game instead of having a visual novel read to me. Story stuff is done, now to practice and get good.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Since it's apparent that you only want to talk on marvel terms, are you also someone who thinks Phoenix isn't relevant in a matchup unless she already has five bars?
Hell yes she is irrelevant if you are playing her the way most top players do.
Like if it's Morrigan/Doom/Vergil vs Magneto/Doom/Phoenix... it's essentially a 3v2 at the start with the 2 player team further handicapped by not being able to use meter. No one is going to call Phoenix assist in the neutral hence almost all of the fight is played with Magneto + Doom versus 3 characters. Phoenix comes into the picture when first 2 characters die or there is about to be a TAC situation into Phoenix or if she is snapped in /raw tagged... none of these situations are impacting the neutral game. Hence why many people rate her outside the grid of support value... she is a rare character in the game who is essentially an "anti support".
Now if you are one of those few players who would take the risk of using the Phoenix assist in the neutral then she is not irrelevant in the match up. Obviously if you can use her assist to lock someone down and open them up that puts her support value way up. However, she is going to die to a breeze and you are practically gift wrapping the game for the opponent.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I'm only 43% done but I think the story flows a lot better compared to previous games. I've read visual novels before so I didn't have any problems with the VN presentation here. I'm hoping to finish up by the end of next week hopefully.
And about that Smug combo. I didn't know Dudley could do that kind of damage. Then again this is probably the first time I've seen someone use him in a match.
DryEyeRelief
Member
So you don't consider hyper combos part of the neutral game?
Oh nevermind then because that's totally different.
I do consider them part of the neutral game.
And before you say it I will respond in advance... there isn't anything stopping you from using hyper combos on a Phoenix team. It's perfectly fine using one HC to finish off a character or to snipe off an assist if it guarantees an easier win.
I'm super sad the Hajime no Ippo game will never be finished. The sprite work on that was pretty sexy.
I watched more gameplay for MvC3 including that Wesker video to refresh my memory and I still don't see why anyone would want to qualify that team engagement in MvC3 combos is greater. You press one button for a pre-determined assist for the secondary character and another button for the tertiary. The end. Comparing that to tag bufferable launchers, tag assaults, character inter-swapping during balcony breaks and during wall hits? The team engagement in combos is just at a much higher level in TTT2. But whatever, I won't harp on it anymore.
And now I want to play UMvC3 anyway. Maybe I'm just lacking greater creativity in that game (which, I actually know I am). I still don't have a team, lol. This is the best I could do with Trish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHwbRvhtbL4
And now I want to play UMvC3 anyway. Maybe I'm just lacking greater creativity in that game (which, I actually know I am). I still don't have a team, lol. This is the best I could do with Trish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHwbRvhtbL4
DryEyeRelief
Member
So Phoenix is relevant before she gets five because she has an effect on the game beforehand. Regarding your point character's options and risk reward scenarios even if you don't ever call an assist.
GGs
Explicitly during combos, yeah, but they don't significantly influence your ability to create openings in the way they do in games like the Marvel series or Skullgirls.
Like I said it all depends on how you play the character/team. You can go ham with your meter usage if you want and then choose to build the 5 bars with XF3 regular Jean. You can also choose to use Phoenix as an assist.
GGWP
SloaneRisette
Member
Applauding SFxT? For gems!? What universe are we in?
I already explained that's not the case with TTT2. Team synergy is still important in many diverse aspects. This includes the example I gave of Lars/Leo as a good wall-carry team. Each team can synerg-ize differently and can have its own strengths and weaknesses.
I don't know why it's hard for people to grasp the idea that a game can be very well balanced and simultaneously diverse in its team composition. You're approaching it too much from a Marvel perspective.
I love gems as a concept, but the execution was inexcusably poor.
Passive Assassin
Member
well played sir.lol
DryEyeRelief
Member
Tekken needs a huge yellow plasma beam to come out full screen for whiff punishes while you simutaneously fish for lows. it's not creative enough
I think it's because aside from Phoenix and Morrigan in Marvel pretty much every team is trying to accomplish the same thing. So the idea of creating a team utilizing different strength regarding the game seems foreign.
sf2fanatic
Member
Anything on Texas Showdown and if so can I get a link?
SFxT ended up exposing a lot of the TTT2 mechanics as being net negatives. Problematic game, but there are a lot of good lessons to be learned from it.
Nah I'll settle for a EWGF assist.
LMAO @ this post though. To suggest that a Zero team operates the same as a Wolverine team or a Magneto team operates the same as a Hawkeye team or a Frank West team operates the same as a Trish team tells me all I need to know. If you can't tell the difference between teams outside of a generic structure then I don't know what else can be added to the discussion.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
are we using this thread to talk about Texas showdown?
and how come no one asks me to do a player interview
(probably because I post once a month here)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=796907
http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive Currently SF4, Marvel coming up
http://www.twitch.tv/pandaxgaming Currently top 8 of Blazblue
Also of note: Mike Weng, aka Xi Weng, the best player in Arkansas who registered as PxG Xi, was labeled on stream in his match against Chris G in SF4 as "Pxgxi." (He won, by the way. Mike is dumb nice at fighting games, especially considering he barely plays them since he started med school.) Ultradavid and James both called him "pee ecks gee ecks eye" the entire match, and I laughed constantly. This always happens. A couple years ago when Mike was traveling to tournaments like Evo and Seasons beatings and the ARK tournament series was still going on, he registered at tournaments as ARK XI. There are videos from Evo 2011 of other people playing where you can hear people calling for "Ark Eleven" to come to a station. :lol:
sf2fanatic
Member
Thank you all for the links!!!
RockTurtle
Member
i still say that sfxtk would have dethroned sf4 had it been 1 vs 1 and the gem system not been sabotaged by DLC antics
Every fighting game boils down to beating your opponent by draining their life bar. Every character is generally trying to beat their opponent into the ground. This doesn't mean Jin is the same as King even though they both want to drain their opponents life to zero through throws and blows. It alsp doesn't mean wolv/Doom/Vergil is the same as Haggar/Dormamu/Magneto even though they have the same goal.
If the patched version were the first version to come out, it'd get so much more respect. I'm personally fine with SFxT being 2v2.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Not exactly. Tekken is a game where a good part of it is about frame advantage infighting. But when you take the double lifebar mechanics from that and put it with characters who are inherently about zoning and distance play, what do you think will happen? Yeah, boring shit. I mean turtling is huge in Tekken too, but there's quick turnaround since there's constant position switching and the you aren't 3 or 4 character distances away from each other. With SF, holding down back and being inactive is a pressure tool.
Tag2 actually has the opposite problem of SFxT. SFxT is too safe, but TTT2 is often at times too visceral and simply pressing risk/reward can make dumb things happen. Overall though, it can be taken away that balancing a tag game is pretty difficult because you have two lifebars but only one needs to be depleted in order to score a win. How do you balance that without making damage obscene?
Yeah maybe but I thought the 2 on 2 worked because of the two universes and having a team from both universes. I think the 2 on 2 feel kinda sucked because of the timer, having to KO only one character, and the online. Everyone says the online is good, it deals with lag in the most horrible way by ghosting everything. If you have a good connection it's decent but getting crossed up and having input do all this weird catching up nonsense just doesn't really work well.
Are you just the one-man Tekken Defense Force now that Deckard has departed us?
Long tag combo mechanics are off-putting to casual players. Learning multiple characters with complex commands/combos is off-putting to players (MvC works because they're simplified.) The one-lifebar KO mechanic causes it to be difficult to balance damage output, leading to the "get one opening, lose 50% life" situation to emerge. The Tekken Tag mechanics increase complexity and decrease accessibility in ways that don't outweigh the positives.
Nah man they both use a horizontal assist and a "lockdown" assist so they are clearly the same type of team.
sf2fanatic
Member
Question, What/Who made Rog get back into Mahvel? I thought he was done with it?
Let me just clarify some things for you.
1. There is nothing wrong with the one lifebar KO mechanic. You guys are already complaining about Tekken matches taking too long. Don't contradict.
2. You don't have to learn multiple characters in Tekken. First, there is the option for playing solo. Second, clones were introduced for this very reason if players have trouble learning two characters.
3. Tekken combos and commands are by and large very easy to execute.
Passive Assassin
Member
the free money
DryEyeRelief
Member
Don't compare me to ZTS. I'm having a better time talking about this than watching Texas Showdown, so might as well.
Yeah but those are all TTT2 problems. SFxT's damage was never thought of as a problem, the combos were branded at the start as Marvel-esque, ABC launcher.
I think the common ground they both have is that they aren't fun to watch. SFxT, like a lot of 3D games, isn't drenched in cinematics. They do have their supers, but it doesn't meld well enough with the gameplay like it does with SF4 or MvC3.
sf2fanatic
Member
Smart man... No more retirement tweets Eddy
Karsticles
Member
Dahbomb has so much patience. Mad respect for how long he can go on like that.
T6 doesn't take as long as TTT2, right?
The solo option wasn't in initially, and got put in due to feedback from players who didn't want to learn 2 chars. (Also, it's essentially non-viable in higher level play.)
When you balance around the longer max-damage combos and there's such an output discrepancy between those combos and the normal ones, it definitely creates issues.
Vampire Savior is LIVE at Rebel Up. Casuals right now, tournament starts at about 7pm PDT/10pm EDT!
http://www.twitch.tv/numakie
http://www.twitch.tv/numakie
There isn't anything wrong with one lifebar KO in tag games. It puts worth on every character and you can't just sacrifice a character. Furthermore there isn't anything wrong with 50% life lost from a combo (in a tag team game) either especially when a good fraction of that life is recoverable. You generally die in at least 3 combos in Tekken (get comboed, tag out and either second character gets comboed twice to death or 2nd character tags after eating a combo) which is about the same as dying in 3 combos in Marvel 3 (one for each character although losing a character is a bigger deal than losing half a bar on a character). Yea you can die in two combos in Tekken too (like in Marvel with a happy birthday) but that usually requires a set of mistakes.
And I don't think Tekken takes too long for a round complete, it takes as long as it should. Most people have a problem with the format... 3 out 5 rounds with 3 out of 5 matches is too much for any games. If Marvel 3 was 3 out of 5 "rounds" with 3 out of 5 matches it would be longer than both KOFXIII and TTT2 combined. So the issue of TTT2 match length is irrelevant to me from a game play point of view, it's about the match format.
As far as the whole tag mechanics are concerned, I don't see an issue with the system in either Tekken or SFxT. SFxT issues are more stuff like stage length, camera distance and game play flow not the tag mechanics. Same for TTT2 (not camera/stage issue but more character bloat). People who have an issue with those games would most likely have an issue with them if they were 1v1 as well.
And I don't think Tekken takes too long for a round complete, it takes as long as it should. Most people have a problem with the format... 3 out 5 rounds with 3 out of 5 matches is too much for any games. If Marvel 3 was 3 out of 5 "rounds" with 3 out of 5 matches it would be longer than both KOFXIII and TTT2 combined. So the issue of TTT2 match length is irrelevant to me from a game play point of view, it's about the match format.
As far as the whole tag mechanics are concerned, I don't see an issue with the system in either Tekken or SFxT. SFxT issues are more stuff like stage length, camera distance and game play flow not the tag mechanics. Same for TTT2 (not camera/stage issue but more character bloat). People who have an issue with those games would most likely have an issue with them if they were 1v1 as well.