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[Sorcerer]

No other IP have has been able to go toe to toe with the likes of Gran Turismo in the console space.

No matter where you fall in which is the best, having competition give us the gamers, games.

Both IPS show off the full power of their parent console. Shows off different approach to the same genre.

But why is that same competition in having exclusive variants in othergames genre now a taboo?

Final fantasy before Phantasy Star
Mario begot Sonic.

Even outside of gaming, exclusive content is nessassary. There is content you can get on HBO+ that you can't on Disney+ and vis versa.

Is it such a taboo to want Xbox to have its own exclusive catalog of games in every genre?

Actually, Phantasy Star 1 was released 2 days after Final Fantasy 1. Not enough time for Final Fantasy 1 to have had any direct influence on Phantasy Star.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Forza has never been able to go toe to toe with gran turismo. Every gran turismo game sells way more.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

See kids — this is what happens when add you a crack pipe to your breakfast.

 

[Unknown?]

Is this the new script?

 

[tommib]

Be cool, study in school.

 

[Melfice7]

This thread should be remade from the ground up

 

[StereoVsn]

Oof, didn’t realize it was this bad. I do like Horizons, and quite like 4 as well, bought that one on Steam. The new proper Forza is just such a disappointment after what, 8 years of development or something like that?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

are you aware that the co-founder and studio director left playground after the acquisition?

I'm just saying that you should be cautious about the next forza. playground is busy trying to make a type of game that they have never made before.

and before the but,but,but, the hired this and this person, but,but, but is another team and blah blah blah.

Just looking at Xbox's track record is enough to be pessimistic.

 

[SHA]

Lol. Plenty of Xbox exclusives are successful.

It's just. They are not as successful according to NeoGAF metrics. Which is pure sales.

Anybody who can tell me with straight face that games like Grounded, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Starfield, Age of Empires IV, Sea of Thieves etc are not successful is smoking something.

 

[SHA]

Lol. Plenty of Xbox exclusives are successful.

It's just. They are not as successful according to NeoGAF metrics. Which is pure sales.

Anybody who can tell me with straight face that games like Grounded, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Starfield, Age of Empires IV, Sea of Thieves etc are not successful is smoking something.

Phil is also thinking long term sales, not just the release window, talking about release window profits is so ancient.

 

[RespawnX]

Forza has never been able to go toe to toe with gran turismo. Every gran turismo game sells way more.

There was a time Gran Turismo was basically non-existent. Forza Motorsport (3&4) has led through the entire Xbox360/PS3 generation. Gran Turismo Sport was laughed at when it was released. But Turn10 made nothing of it and didn't develop the brand significantly. Forza Horizon, meanwhile, redefined arcade racers out of nowhere. The new Forza Motorsport is more of an early access game and it would helped title to communicate it as such. We have reached the point where it could soon help Horizon more to get rid of the "Forza" prefix.

As a casual player, Gran Turismo is nowhere near the racing experience of the new Forza Motorsport for me, but Polyphony does everything around it much better as a game. Except for monetization and progression, where they both suck. Both need a lot of extra lessons at the gaas driving school.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Forza is love, forza is live... Service

 

[Ansphn]

Tell that to Phil

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

wait a minute....are you talking about the new Forza motorsport that happens to have this kind of reception:

it seems some of you are living in a different universe.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Since Microsoft is releasing all their games in sub service day one, you clearly can't just look at sales number and decide if game was successful or not. Everybody who is saying otherwise is stupid.

Metrics you provide are exactly the metrics Microsoft is looking for with their first-party releases in addition to sales. How many people subscribed to Game Pass because of X game? How many months those people stayed subscribed? That's exactly why their goal is at least 1 big first-party game per quarter. Data is probably telling them that this is cadence to sustain subscribers or growing service.

I agree that Microsoft should me more straightforward with some of the metrics, but that doesn't excuse dumb people on internet claiming "XYZ game is not successful" if they don't have clear picture. It's as stupid as trying to claim if Gran Turismo 7 is successful or not without at least fraction of data from Sony.

Hell. We have hard numbers that Forza Horizon 5 exceeded 35 million players, Steam sales data estimation are available and there are still people who try to claim that game is not successful because Microsoft won't provide actual sales despite them knowing that Microsoft is just not providing sales data for their games because they are not painting full picture.

We also know that GamePass subs are hitting a ceiling and that GamePass cannabilizes game sales.

 

[David Ricardo]

wait a minute....are you talking about the new Forza motorsport that happens to have this kind of reception:

it seems some of you are living in a different universe.

It's a good game, but has some serious bugs and is missing some features from previous entries. They should have delayed it for at least 6 months to iron that out.

 

[Interfectum]

ChatGPT took a crack at it:

The Forza franchise demonstrates that Xbox can contend in the realm of console exclusivity and still achieve success. No other intellectual property has managed to match Gran Turismo in the console market.

Regardless of personal preferences for the best game, the presence of competition benefits us gamers by providing a variety of games.

Both IPs showcase the capabilities of their respective consoles, each presenting a unique approach within the same genre.

However, why is the concept of exclusivity in various game genres now considered controversial?

Historically, game exclusives like Final Fantasy preceded Phantasy Star, and Mario led to Sonic.

This concept of exclusivity isn't limited to gaming. For instance, HBO+ offers content not available on Disney+, and vice versa.

So, is it really controversial to desire an exclusive range of games for Xbox in every genre?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

No other IP have has been able to go toe to toe with the likes of Gran Turismo in the console space.

No matter where you fall in which is the best, having competition give us the gamers, games.

Both IPS show off the full power of their parent console. Shows off different approach to the same genre.

But why is that same competition in having exclusive variants in othergames genre now a taboo?

Final fantasy before Phantasy Star
Mario begot Sonic.

Even outside of gaming, exclusive content is nessassary. There is content you can get on HBO+ that you can't on Disney+ and vis versa.

Is it such a taboo to want Xbox to have its own exclusive catalog of games in every genre?

Actual exclusives ie not on PC would be even better.

 

[Godot25]

We also know that GamePass subs are hitting a ceiling and that GamePass cannabilizes game sales.

Yes. But you don't know how much.

And without numbers those claims are literally meaningless.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It's a good game, but has some serious bugs and is missing some features from previous entries. They should have delayed it for at least 6 months to iron that out.

and that's the point. Especially when the very own President of Gaming Phil Spencer has the catch phrase of "releasing games at quality".

this why Xbox gets so much shit.

 

[Senua]

Actual exclusives ie not on PC would be even better.

MS and even now Sony disagree!

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

MS and even now Sony disagree!

Sony doesn't release day one nor do they need to.
Xbox consoles have been on the decline in sales since doing such a thing.

 

[Senua]

Sony doesn't release day one nor do they need to.
Xbox consoles have been on the decline in sales since doing such a thing.

So it's the fact they're releasing games on PC day one that Xbox is failing? Not the fact Xbox first party games in general have been on a decline in quality for years now?

 

[Astray]

IDK.. I think FH5 would have sold a few more million copies if it was on PS5. And while it was a big driver of interest in Xbox, it's not like it being on PS5 would have diminished interest in it on Xbox.

There's an entire Ubisoft series (The Crew) that's aping Forza just to take advantage of this market inefficiency.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Awwww, poor Trilion-dollar Xbox corporation with infinite warchest... can't make good exclusive games, so we should all cheer for them to buy up every 3rd party publisher and developer.

I mean, how else are they gonna compete with Sony for exclusives? It's necessary.

Spoiler

/s obviously.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

So it's the fact they're releasing games on PC day one that Xbox is failing? Not the fact Xbox first party games in general have been on a decline in quality for years now?

Absolutely is one of the main reasons.
Many stopped buying Xbox consoles and bought the games on PC since they started this.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yes. But you don't know how much.

And without numbers those claims are literally meaningless.

Stagnating subs at ~40M with PC included isn't meaningless, especially not when sales are dying outside UK/US.

How much GP cannabilizes sales is anyone's guess, I'll give you that.

 

[Senua]

Absolutely is one of the main reasons.
Many stopped buying Xbox consoles and bought the games on PC since they started this.

I'd argue most people stopped buying Xbox games at all with how middling they've become lol. PS5 could bring most of their exclusives to PC and they'd still sell a shit load of consoles because for the broader audience, a gaming PC is an enthusiast device that just isn't on their radar. I think you overestimate this issue in regards to Xbox

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I'd argue most people stopped buying Xbox games at all with how middling they've become lol. PS5 could bring most of their exclusives to PC and they'd still sell a shit load of consoles because for the broader audience, a gaming PC is an enthusiast device that just isn't on their radar. I think you overestimate this issue in regards to Xbox

The games haven't been good so that's why even releasing on PC hasn't helped the sales.
But doing so(releasing on PC) has hurt console sales.

PS games on PC(wider audience)don't sell anywhere close to how much they sell on PlayStation consoles.

 

[Mr Moose]

Yes. But you don't know how much.

And without numbers those claims are literally meaningless.

Doesn't that apply to your other comment about them being successful?

 

[TheKratos]

I feel like TC was looking in a mirror and crying while typing this. I can feel the emotions.

 

[Senua]

The games haven't been good so that's why even releasing on PC hasn't helped the sales.
But doing so(releasing on PC) has hurt console sales.

Well that is bound to happen to a certain extent, but I do not see it as the main contributing factor to Xbox game sales being down, or anything close to it. In fact the games being open to a new audience would only help. They just have to make a compelling product. Forza Horizon 5 is a successful game and that released on both platforms day one, because it's a bloody good game.

PS games on PC(wider audience)don't sell anywhere close to how much they sell on PlayStation consoles.

Same as Xbox, because PC gamers for the most part, play very different games to console gamers. It's only really console focused places like Gaf where console ports get this big hype on PC, most of my PC friends are playing some MP title on steam I personally don't give a shit about, but those are the hugely popular on PC. I think PC gamers that came from console backgrounds aren't your typical PC gamers, just look at the most popular games on Steam, it's shit Gaf would find niche but are actually huge.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Well that is bound to happen to a certain extent, but I do not see it as the main contributing factor to Xbox game sales being down, or anything close to it. In fact the games being open to a new audience would only help. They just have to make a compelling product. Forza Horizon 5 is a successful game and that released on both platforms day one, because it's a bloody good game.

Same as Xbox, because PC gamers for the most part, play very different games to console gamers. It's only really console focused places like Gaf where console ports get this big hype on PC, most of my PC friends are playing some MP title on steam I personally don't give a shit about, but those are the hugely popular on PC. I think PC gamers that came from console backgrounds aren't your typical PC gamers, just look at the most popular games on Steam, it's shit Gaf would find niche but are actually huge.

I strongly think Xbox console sales been down from going PC.

Game sales been down because of game quality.

 

[Schmendrick]

But why is that same competition in having exclusive variants in othergames genre now a taboo?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

They should all have their exclusives, yes.
Forza is just another example of Xbox making things worse by pushing GaaS/GP if anything.

 

[Senua]

I strongly think Xbox console sales been down from going PC.

Game sales been down because of game quality.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

MS and even now Sony disagree!

Sony has lots of exclusives not going to PC.
Just look at all the Bloodborne begging.

 

[Senua]

Sony has lots of exclusives not going to PC.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

 

[AlexxKidd]

Mario Kart exists.

 

[Senua]

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

The decision was probably made about 6 years ago, and considering we still don't have it, we kinda know what the decision was.

 

[Senua]

The decision was probably made about 6 years ago, and considering we still don't have it, we kinda know what the decision was.

I think that game is just up in the air, there were rumours of a PS5 remaster or remake but who knows

 

[Laieon]

We’re talking about real racing games.

It's too bad we'll never get a sequel to Beetle Adventure Racing.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It's too bad we'll never get a sequel to Beetle Adventure Racing.

Just about anything from that era, honestly.

So many great racing games.

 

[metareferential]

Exclusives are shit, not two ways around it. Hopefully sooner or later we won't have consoles or OS exclusives, just like with other media.

And fuck subscription services, they're even worse than cable tv.

 

[Godot25]

Stagnating subs at ~40M with PC included isn't meaningless, especially not when sales are dying outside UK/US.

How much GP cannabilizes sales is anyone's guess, I'll give you that.

And yet, Starfield was responsible for "biggest addition of new Game Pass sub during 24 hours" since service was launched

Which is, again, without hard numbers, but to argue that Game Pass subs are full flat is lie.

And again. I would love if Microsoft provided more numbers and stats. But on the other hand I don't want to magically create conclusions based on incomplete facts. Which this forum loooooves to do.

 

[ungalo]

They can but as they sell less and less hardware it's becoming harder.

 

[Godot25]

Doesn't that apply to your other comment about them being successful?

It does in a way.

But as I said, some data are available, so for example if you know that Grounded was developed by 20 people (which was confirmed by Obsidian) and you see SteamDB sales data (with most pesimistic estimates being at 1,75 million copies sold and most optimistic at 3,89 million copies sold), you can say that game is clearly successful. And that's without Game Pass effect and sales on Xbox.
And regarding Microsoft Flight Simulator. I agree that we don't have hard sales data. But since game is supported for three years with new content and there is sequel slated for 2024, you can kinda say that game was success for Microsoft. Otherwise it would not make any sense to support it and make sequel.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

And yet, Starfield was responsible for "biggest addition of new Game Pass sub during 24 hours" since service was launched

Talk about meaningless numbers. 100% could be 1 month subs which expire after that time.
Resulting in said ceiling.

Which is, again, without hard numbers, but to argue that Game Pass subs are full flat is lie.

And again. I would love if Microsoft provided more numbers and stats. But on the other hand I don't want to magically create conclusions based on incomplete facts. Which this forum loooooves to do.

Why Has Microsoft Put Xbox Game Pass Subscription Numbers In A Black Box?

Microsoft has decided to quietly stop reporting numbers for its new driver of growth, Xbox Game Pass. Microsoft was very happy to report about huge surges in Game Pass subscriptions during the pandemic.

www.google.com

"In January 2022 Microsoft said Game Pass had 25 million subscribers. We only got a hint at the 30 million milestone in September of this year when a single LinkedIn profile of an Xbox Marketing Director said it was 30 million for a brief time, before it was changed to 25. Hardly official. Now, we’re about two months away from January 2024 with no new figures."

That's pretty much all we know. Not sharing numbers is just a way to dodge sharing data for obvious reasons.

There's a ceiling and it's lower than they hoped for.