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Game Pass is not profitable yet - Tom Warren
- Thread starter Rolla
- Start date
ReBurn
Gold Member
The impact on boxed sales is kind of the point. Microsoft believes that the future of gaming is for players to pay every month for access to digital games and for developers to be paid based on how much people play. Then they offer discounts on digital purchases if people want to keep games forever. Their games not showing up in boxed charts is exactly what they want to see. Boxed sales are the lowest number anyway since more people buy digital than boxed. I don't even know how anyone could use that as a metric for Game Pass performance. Why would people run out and buy a boxed copy of a game they've already downloaded to their system when they could just buy it right there?
Papacheeks
Banned
And what happens to all the studios once the Service slows down in terms of Microsoft caring about it? All of the spending is based on growth. Right now Microsoft has to let those games from those studios they just bought come to market to see how people react. If things increase to acceptable numbers then they will continue on buying, acquiring.
If in 5 years their growth stalls or doesn't show the needed change for them to continue to dump money, or they start going through and looking at games and seeing what tracks and what doesnt. Which in a way dictates what gets green lit to be made.
MScarpa
Member
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hero of Spielberg
Member
So much concern.
sol_bad
Member
Do you buy games that are on gamepass or are rumoured to be on gamepass?
Genx3
Member
They continue making Xbox exclusives like any other 1st party organization would.
Plantoid
Member
They can continue to make games, Ms can turn into a publisher that releases on ps easy if they start to lose a lot, they already release on PC anyways
RasAlGhoul
Member
I certainly do not.
twilo99
Member
That is correct, they got me and I don't even own an xbox. I have not purchased a single game on steam or elsewhere since I got gamepass ultimate almost a year ago. There is so much good entertainment on there that I really don't feel the need to pay for any games outside of that. They didn't even have xcloud working when I signed up, now that is up and it really is an amazing service. There is zero pressure on liking a game or not because I just spent $70 on it.. or regret for not enjoying it. You just click play, and if you don't like you move on..
Activision might get me to buy Vanguard, and valve might get my money at some point, but all in all, no incentive to spend money on games besides gamepass.
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
As time goes by Game Pass will become more and more essential for more and more people due to the ease of access and affordability it offers to such an ever growing lineup of incredible games, and numerous other games that people may not have tried on their own, but can now try without very much risk of potential disappointment thanks to Game Pass. Including all the Xbox first party titles lol.
Halo Infinite
Starfield
Elder Scrolls 6
Deathloop
Ghostwire: Tokyo
The Outer Worlds 2
Indiana Jones
Redfall
Contraband
Fable
Next Gen Doom
Perfect Dark
Avowed
Project Cobalt (InXile FPS RPG)
Forza Horizon 5
Hellblade 2
Forza Motorsport
People keep writing Game Pass off because Microsoft wasn't releasing nearly enough of anything to truly make it what it always had the potential of becoming. Last gen game pass is nothing like next generation game pass.
Also, someone interested in game pass doesn't need to buy an Xbox since PC generally is getting all the same games. The success of Game Pass isn't to be determined on people buying Xbox consoles.
"Guys, Gamepass is going to be massively successful. It will be essential, like food. Everyone is excited about it. Everyone
By the way, don't apply any obvious metrics to it, like sales or userbase. Everyone will buy it on 2000-3000 PCs"
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I dont get the concern either with so many "experts" claiming to know how this will end with massive studio closures and an overall game market crash, all doom and gloom.
I have way too many others things in my life to worry about instead of what Gamepass may or may not do to the gaming scene years from now
Until then I will enjoy my PS5s for their first party big budget single player games and my XsX for pretty much everything else including Gamepass games.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
What are you even trying to say here? My PC is easily north of the $3,000+ range and I own Game Pass. Why are people so desperate to deny that people who spend money have no issues with Game Pass?
Gamers look a deal. It doesn't matter if you're a cheapskate or a big spender. All gamers love a deal. There's a reason why Game Pass is growing so damn fast.
And you are super niche, and that's totally fine, but c'mon essential?What are you even trying to say here? My PC is easily north of the $3,000+ range and I own Game Pass. Why are people so desperate to deny that people who spend money have no issues with Game Pass?
Gamers look a deal. It doesn't matter if you're a cheapskate or a big spender. All gamers love a deal. There's a reason why Game Pass is growing so damn fast.
GamePass has been around for a while, and it doesn't seem to have expanded outside the niche of xbox fans and maybe a few PC players.
Also, to say you can't measure its success by sales metric is just unrealistic. if Gamepass is as big deal as you say it is, than it should be reflected in xbox console sales.
Brofist
Member
Just a bunch of haters projecting their hopes of the service failing. Nothing to waste your time on.
Netflix cost has more than doubled. I could see it easily doubling yes.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
You're missing the point:
If you're interested in GamePass you probably would seek to own either or both an Xbox or a PC anyway!
Because the appeal is the games and presumably others like them.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
A little different I think in terms of overall increase. While it's technically double, the amount of increase in terms of actual dollars would be too much. Quick do a poll and see how many would stay on gamepass at $40 a month. And by the way, netflix is teetering on the edge now with so much competition, especially the 4k price.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
First off, it's still very difficult to find Series X consoles. Let's not pretend like they're now able to be found everywhere. They're still pretty tough to locate.
Game Pass in the last gen was a shell of what it is now. It couldn't possibly come into its own when Xbox simply didn't have the big game firepower adding to its value and attractiveness. Xbox was barely releasing enough games to make it more worthwhile even though it was still a great service nonetheless for what it did have, and the promise of what it could become. That promise is about to start to be realized. The entire Bethesda catalog of games that have filled the service and many more big ones coming in later years, like Starfield, Redfall, Deathloop, Ghostwire: Tokyo, Indiana Jones.
You've had MLB The Show, Outriders, Yakuza Like a Dragon.
I almost forgot the entire EA Access Vault of games included with the ultimate subscription of Game Pass, no additional cost, and we know there are hit games in that list too.
Then you have further additions like MLB: The Show 21, Outriders, which were major 3rd party additions. Hades was added, Ascent was added recently, Stalker 2 is coming.
Since Game Pass launched, the biggest releases that aren't 3rd party that Microsoft has been able to drop from their own studios prior to the start of the new generation have been.
Crackdown 3 (feb 2019)
Forza Horizon 4 (oct 2018)
Forza Motorsport 7 (oct 2017)
Wasteland 3 (aug 2020)
State of Decay 2 (may 2018)
Gears 5 (sep 2019)
Ori and the Willow of the Wisps (nov 2020)
Bleeding Edge (mar 2020)
Gears Tactics (for xbox nov 2020)
Minecraft Dungeons (may 2020)
Battletoads (aug 2020)
Tell Me Why (aug 2020)
And from this list, I personally consider these to be the most quality among them.
Forza Horizon 4
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (march 2020)
Wasteland 3
State of Decay 2
Gears Tactics
Gears 5
Then the rest of the first party is starting to heat up. I don't consider Flight Sim my think, but it's cool for a look, but beginning first with Psychonauts 2 and heading into the Holiday period with Forza Horizon 5 & Halo Infinite, the first party future for Xbox looks pretty damn insane. That's the interesting part about Game Pass, the more big budget and quality content from Microsoft's studios makes its way into it the more amazing and must have a service it will become. Hell, the lineup of RPGs are simply the perfect kinds of games for something like Game Pass. Games that can be experienced and enjoyed over longer periods, though I'm sure that isn't even the reason they're making so many. Microsoft just so happens to have a murderer's row of great RPG makers.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Of course the uk boxed copies sales had to be brought up lol. The only thing physical sales in the UK prove is that physical is dying and is irrelevant.
zaanan
Banned
Netflix isn’t teetering at all. No one is even close with the vast amount of content offered and rate of releases. Disney+ has a drip of content. Amazon is a trickle same with Hulu. No one even comes close besides hbo max and that day and date thing they have is slated to end in 2021
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
If ms did not make what it makes outside of gaming, they would likely never make these massive acquisitions, so its a bit of a moot point.
I disagree with you on your definition of "competing straight up", i mean you say that like there are rules, if its legal aquiring zenimax is no less competing straight up then sony aquiring insomniac.only a fanboy would make such arbitrary rules just because certain things dont favour his platform of allegiance.
I suppose the only reasons apart from fanboyism why somone would want a platform to aquire studios/publishers is if the acquisition enables said studio to continue making games with creative freedom or like the value of services like game pass brings.
Making all studios from scratch is just not practical in the short term, if ms did not acquire studios when they did, the series X would not get any first party games until like 2026 and why would anyone want xbox to fail or want no competition?
Competition is good for the consumer.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
I buy games I like, gamepass is to try games I would never of bought such as dirt 5
KeepYourHeart1989
Banned
And what can you do about it?
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Maybe for your, but their value proposition for me has been reduced a lot. I'm seriously considering cutting my service after being with them from the start. I suspect I am not alone in considering a change.
And it depends on what you watch, Disney plus has a lot of stuff for a family, even apple + has been doing well lately. HBO max has a few good shows but some of it's staples are gone, they need a resurgence that's hopefully in the pipeline.
And ya, prime isn't amazing but it's included with other stuff.
To back this a bit, in Canada and the US, this last quarter Netflix saw a decrease:
2021 Canada Q1 - 6.71M Q2 - 6.67M
United States Q1 - 67.67M Q2 - 67.28M
Now they had slightly higher revenues do to increase in the cost, but it's a trend in the wrong direction for them. I expect more lost customers for Q3 and Q4. Their growth is in the middle east, Europe and Africa.
These aren't huge loses so far, but it will start to add up as more decide to switch. And price does play a part.
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Iced Arcade
Member
Did you really bump an old ass thread from May to post a Spotify tweet.
Should update that signature from "Posts in tech threads, doesn't understand" and just remove "tech"
Should update that signature from "Posts in tech threads, doesn't understand" and just remove "tech"
How can you be sure
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Only boomers on NeoGAF care about boxed sales. Boxed was 4% of total Playstation revenue. Boxed is dead
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
You would think the whole of GAF had stock in Microsoft the way folks are feverishly debating Gamepass' viability.
There are only 3 real reasons this is happening.
One is Sony fans feel increasingly threatened and need a perpetual circle jerk to reassure themselves.
Two is some folks (a minority) are genuinely interested in discussing the business aspect of Gamepass.
Three is Xbox fans trying desperately to hold on to Gamepass in lieu of any real hard hitting exclusives right now.
Here's my position. I'm making out like a goddamned bandit over here with Gamepass. Milking these teets for all she's got. If it lasts, it lasts. If it doesn't well it was one helluva ride. I couldn't give a fuck less about whether Microsoft is profitable in this way or not. How much are they worth? Over 2 Trillion dollars? Surprised they aren't giving Xboxes away just to write it off as charity.
I'm just happy I'm saving money. I look at this as a consumer first. The rest of this simply doesn't matter.
There are only 3 real reasons this is happening.
One is Sony fans feel increasingly threatened and need a perpetual circle jerk to reassure themselves.
Two is some folks (a minority) are genuinely interested in discussing the business aspect of Gamepass.
Three is Xbox fans trying desperately to hold on to Gamepass in lieu of any real hard hitting exclusives right now.
Here's my position. I'm making out like a goddamned bandit over here with Gamepass. Milking these teets for all she's got. If it lasts, it lasts. If it doesn't well it was one helluva ride. I couldn't give a fuck less about whether Microsoft is profitable in this way or not. How much are they worth? Over 2 Trillion dollars? Surprised they aren't giving Xboxes away just to write it off as charity.
I'm just happy I'm saving money. I look at this as a consumer first. The rest of this simply doesn't matter.
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JerryinSoCal
Member
Who says that first line?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
You're referring to business realities that exist everywhere. Even if the worst should come and after 5-8 years this or that doesn't happen in Microsoft's favor and then they decide to abandon the Game Pass route, which is honestly highly unlikely because this is one of the rare cases when they're actually ahead of the curve and leading on something new before it takes off. Maybe not every company will be able to afford what Microsoft is doing here with Game pass, but the current Game Pass business model is the future, and buying games the old fashioned way will continue being a viable option.
Another thing people really have to stop and consider is what makes any person so certain that Microsoft will ever abandon Game Pass and aren't committed to it over the long term no matter what happens? This is about more than just Xbox consoles. It's about PC and mobile with cloud gaming involved. What a lot of people aren't factoring in is that a whole bunch of very high quality, highly anticipated games that are going to be released over the next couple months and years are going to be the full property of Microsoft, many more than was ever the case prior to their ownership of Bethesda. Be it traditional game sales or Game Pass, if someone isn't buying all those Bethesda games for PC or Xbox, then the next best thing - or likely the preferred route - in Microsoft's eyes is for people who desire those games to play them in Game Pass. Bethesda + Xbox Game Studios and all the projects they have lined up is a potent weapon for Game Pass over the next couple years, something the likes of which Xbox has never had.
With every passing year, Game Pass becomes more of a AAA whos who of high caliber games, some of which will have significant followings. Deathloop is doing incredible on steam right now. Microsoft is most pleased by that. So even though one of their newest IP hasn't even hit Xbox yet, any success it enjoys on either Playstation or PC will be benefitting Microsoft's investment. 20 years from now we will still be talking about Game Pass. With some things you don't need to be blowing the entire industry out of the water, sometimes the fact that it's clearly the best such thing out there is enough good business sense to keep it going. Microsoft has ensured their Game Pass experiment will be a success. They ensured that the moment they bought Bethesda, taking ownership of all their studios and IP and guaranteeing Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6 are exclusives. Gamers flock to those series.
What's the fundamental difference between that and now (or maybe the typical distribution method) ? Sales vs engagement as the metric that companies use to greenlit games? Not sure any one is objectively better.
Bought it digitally in the UK cause I get playanywhere using that distribution method.
Will add I suspect that reason is probably niche
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Vognerful
Member
So a 600% increase?
Jemm
Member
I don't have any names, but I see that claim a lot in forums (here, too) and Twitter etc.
Of course, the devs get paid up-front or can suggest another kind of deal with Microsoft, who in turn decides whether the deal is worth it or not.
But that's not the point. Also music is still available to buy. Once something is available for a subscription fee, it rarely sells well. Will you buy music record or movies if you have a subscription where you can watch it free? All you have to do is to sign up for a month and then watch it and unsubscribe.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Another that doesn’t understand how acquisitions and value work yet talks about it like they’re an expert lol.
Zenimax don’t need to make anything back, especially not $7.5bil. They didn’t just drop to $0 value when they were bought. MS bought an asset and that asset has value.
The cash that they spent was burning a hole in their pocket earning them next to nothing in interest. Shareholders don’t like that.
Hezekiah
Banned
These are mostly big-name, big-budget games. The key in the games industry is to convince people that your studios make great games worth buying, rather than a race to the bottom.
Hezekiah
Banned
Pumping out AAA games every quarter and giving them away for a few dollars a month isn't sustainable unless you have an enormous subscriber base. This isn't difficult to understand.
You either jack up the price of the service (maybe by having 'tiers' for premium customers), or reduce the number of AAA games and focus on AA games for it.
The problem is that people like you have your head buried the sand and expect to spend the rest of your gaming life living off handouts....
you should explain that to Netflix Disney ...Amazon Spotify etc etc etc
the problem is that ppl like you don't accept nor see nor feel nothing that happens around them ... another example is streaming games or just digital releases only ...the average man has trouble accepting any kind of change
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Sorcerer
Member
Sure Sony will eventually get around to launching a similar service, but no way is it going to be value oriented, that's not Sony. The game lineup may be more enticing to some, but it won't be cheap.