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[Cybrwzrd]

So this is what happens to a forum when its owner is exposed as a sexual predator.

Even though this thread is nearly if not wholly unanimous in thought that Russia is fucking awful about LGB rights, making the assertion that one should be careful when visiting foreign countries known for oppression is now a bad thing?

 

[God Enel]

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/06/14/fifa-world-cup-russia-gay-fan-brain-injuries-brutal-attack/

This has been feared before the world cup, now it materialized. Shockingly, I haven't seen any mainstream media cover this. Guess they don't want to 'spoil the fun' (fuck you, ARD and ZDF).

That's just pathetic. Almost murdered because you're visiting the world cup in 2018. Fuck any 'they should have known better' voices. Hoping that this news blows up and becomes big.

Fuck ARD and ZDF you said it. Not just for not showing this stuff. But also because of their atrocious commentators. Spending my money on Motherfuckers i cannot stand. They are like.. the worst. Sad thing is you have to pay for them and they, as Gouvernement-run channels it's a fucking joke to hide shit like that. It should be the other way around.

And fuck FIFA! these fucks at the top of the food chain would sell their mothers to earn some cash. That's why we have the WC in Russia and in qatar and Shit like that. I guess money makes the world go round.

I hope the injured fan will recover without any consequences and that he will be properly treated.

And I hope that this shit won't happen again during the World Cup.
It's fucking sad. the World Cup should be a symbol of 'unity' to bring people together of all races and help to eliminate hate against each other whoever we are.

 

[Greedings]

I don't understand why the world cup is considered a symbol of unity.

 

[Dunki]

Two comments here.

1. Russia has an appalling record of LGBT treatment and oppression.

2. If you intentionally go swimming with Great White Sharks, don't put blood in the water.

No the FIFA should have not allowed this country to get the World Cup. It will be even more drastic with Qatar. These countries are the total opposite of what the Fifa always preeches and should stand for. So I blame this attack on the FIFA and no one else.

 

[KevinKeene]

Fuck ARD and ZDF you said it. Not just for not showing this stuff. But also because of their atrocious commentators. Spending my money on Motherfuckers i cannot stand. They are like.. the worst. Sad thing is you have to pay for them and they, as Gouvernement-run channels it's a fucking joke to hide shit like that. It should be the other way around.

And fuck FIFA! these fucks at the top of the food chain would sell their mothers to earn some cash. That's why we have the WC in Russia and in qatar and Shit like that. I guess money makes the world go round.

I hope the injured fan will recover without any consequences and that he will be properly treated.

And I hope that this shit won't happen again during the World Cup.
It's fucking sad. the World Cup should be a symbol of 'unity' to bring people together of all races and help to eliminate hate against each other whoever we are.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid it has to happen again before the big media take notice :/

 

[Cato]

I disagree and feel that it's very much FIFA's fault. If you value and support your gay fans, don't hold your sporting event in a society that has laws against their existence.

So from now on FIFA, with few exceptions, should host every event in a western style democracy and never in Asia, Africa, Middle East, Former USSR, most of central/south America ... ?
Why not? I think there are a lot of european fans that would be delighted if the world cup would always be held in Europe or North America going forward. Most of the times you would not have to travel very far to attend
and most of the time the time zones would work well when viewing it on the telly from home.

This is not meant to defend russia or intending to victim blame. But the reality is that the western world is a lot better and tolerant place than the hate it receives nowadays would indicate.
Anytime you travel outside of the western world, you should always be very careful, not just LGBT folks, everyone should be careful.

 

[Cato]

Unfortunately, I'm afraid it has to happen again before the big media take notice :/

Big media in the US will probably never cover it. It is too far away.
Sometimes, when it is outrageous/disgusting enough : https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/23/murder-transgender-lgbt-hande-kader-turkey
some european outlets might report on it.

I wish media would report on this a lot more in the west. We need to bring up awareness that there are a lot of places in the world where they are
literally murdering LGBT people in the streets and often the local population is ok with it.
We need more reporting on these issues.

 

[Mohonky]

Why the bleedin' hell is the World Cup hosted in Russia this year anyway? Does FIFA have no morals or standards?

FIFA must be fairly new to you?

FIFA has always been a shit show of corruption and poor ethical standards, its like their thing.....but they also run the worlds biggest sporting event so yeh they get away with it.

 

[Scopa]

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/06/14/fifa-world-cup-russia-gay-fan-brain-injuries-brutal-attack/

This has been feared before the world cup, now it materialized. Shockingly, I haven't seen any mainstream media cover this. Guess they don't want to 'spoil the fun' (fuck you, ARD and ZDF).

That's just pathetic. Almost murdered because you're visiting the world cup in 2018. Fuck any 'they should have known better' voices. Hoping that this news blows up and becomes big.

The original source link, telegram, isn’t working for me. Has another news org reported on this other than “pink news”?

 

[CaliggyJack]

Shame because hardbass, cheeki breeki and slav squat memes are some of my favorite.

Holy shit... This is how we get Russia to accept LGBT folk! Have them do mass peaceful protests of them just doing slav squats all over Russia.

You mean discussions without everyone getting banned because thought police are on the prowl like jaguars, pouncing on opinions that doesn't sit well with totalitarian type moderation?

I know. Damndest thing, eh?
Posts like yours derail discussions and make it that much more difficult to go back to a normalcy that everyone could at least agree on.

I keep seeing this shit from people that haven't posted in months because there are topics popping up that probably interest you enough to log back in and shit-by post. Why even bother?

IDEK why they stay here when ReshitERA caters to their every snowflakey whim.

 

[Dunki]

So from now on FIFA, with few exceptions, should host every event in a western style democracy and never in Asia, Africa, Middle East, Former USSR, most of central/south America ... ?
Why not? I think there are a lot of european fans that would be delighted if the world cup would always be held in Europe or North America going forward. Most of the times you would not have to travel very far to attend
and most of the time the time zones would work well when viewing it on the telly from home.

This is not meant to defend russia or intending to victim blame. But the reality is that the western world is a lot better and tolerant place than the hate it receives nowadays would indicate.
Anytime you travel outside of the western world, you should always be very careful, not just LGBT folks, everyone should be careful.

No but these countries are especially bad. HEll in Qtar you had slaves working on thee stadiums and over 5000 people dying during it so far.

Places like China, South Korea, Mexico, Argentinia New Zeeland etc are totally fine and great places. But you can not preech for sucha pphilosophy and then completly ignore it.
In qtar its even worse. Women are not allowed to wear t-shirts they are not allowed to kiss in public, no alcohol and so on. Even Russia are tolerant compared to this shithole of a country.

 

[O.v.e.rlord]

“In Russia” ah, see. That’s your problem right there.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Holy shit... This is how we get Russia to accept LGBT folk! Have them do mass peaceful protests of them just doing slav squats all over Russia.



IDEK why they stay here when ReshitERA caters to their every snowflakey whim.

lol.

 

[Hotspurr]

Terrible that this has happened. BUT If these people are going around being "proud" then they are indeed putting themselves at risk. It is very easy to hide your sexual orientation, in fact most people don't feel the need to display it publicly. This is not victim blaming or homophobia, just don't be dumb. If you're a Jew wanting to sight see in Islamic countries, maybe leave the headress and the Israeli flag at home?

As for FIFA, it is not their place to get political and tell countries what laws and protections they need to enact. They could choose not to hold world cups in certain places but that would get extremely political. For those saying they are obligated to protect the public...no, they are not. They are responsible for putting on a tournament (with some standard level of stadium security). If you don't feel safe going to it, just don't go. No one is forcing you.

It would be great if more places were as progressive as America. But guess what, where there is religion (not just religion, but it's a big one) there are often these problems. Welcome to the real world and adult life.

 

[lil puff]

lol.

agreed. LOL

 

[Shamylov]

Terrible that this has happened. BUT If these people are going around being "proud" then they are indeed putting themselves at risk. It is very easy to hide your sexual orientation, in fact most people don't feel the need to display it publicly. This is not victim blaming or homophobia, just don't be dumb. If you're a Jew wanting to sight see in Islamic countries, maybe leave the headress and the Israeli flag at home?

As for FIFA, it is not their place to get political and tell countries what laws and protections they need to enact. They could choose not to hold world cups in certain places but that would get extremely political. For those saying they are obligated to protect the public...no, they are not. They are responsible for putting on a tournament (with some standard level of stadium security). If you don't feel safe going to it, just don't go. No one is forcing you.

It would be great if more places were as progressive as America. But guess what, where there is religion (not just religion, but it's a big one) there are often these problems. Welcome to the real world and adult life.

Many of the points you are making have already been addressed earlier in the thread and, since you haven't added much to the discussion, maybe you should have read the previous posts. The thread isn't even that long.

Yes, you are being homophobic, you are victim blaming, and we can blame FIFA for what happened. In a thread about a gay fan getting brain injury just for being gay, you felt that the only thing you need to criticize was the gay fan for displaying his gayness, arguing that he deserves what happened for being dumb; that covers your homophobia and your victim blaming; it should be very obvious.

Now, FIFA can be blamed for creating a situation where gay futbol fans have to hide their gayness to enjoy the World Cup or just not attend at all to be safe. FIFA could have given a greater priority to the safety of the fans by picking a host country where people from all over the world could visit without getting brain injury.

 

[zumphry]

FIFA shouldn’t even give countries like this the opportunity to host. You want to host a world-unifying sports championship? Get your shit at least partially together.

 

[Hotspurr]

Maybe instead of telling people what to do, you could actually read their posts and make better arguements?

I said it was awful, no? I gave the example of Jews in antisematic places, no?

Would you tell someone to go swimming in an alligator infested swamp?

My arguements are to do with practicality. Russia hasn't banned homosexuality, last time I checked they don't prosecute for.your sexual orientation. If FIFA held a game in a highly religious part of the USA and someone got beat up, would you blame FIFA? Does FIFA need to get political and account for everonyes ideology, political beliefs, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, skin color, etc etc?

So you can take your ignorance and name calling elsewhere. I feel for the victims, but being naive and ignorant isn't helping anyone. If.you have gay friends I hope.you never give them advice. People with your kind of naive ideologies are largely a reason people suffer.

 

[oagboghi2]

Lol by that logic let's just put FIFA world cup in only the few countries that support gay community. This is a world cup. It goes around the world . By your logic let's just call it North America and some European countries cup .

Why the logic is hard to understand ? Stop fucking around other countries rules and tradition . They will fuck u up. That simple.

You are gay ? Good for you . The other country you visiting don't like it ? Keep that shit for your self or don't visit. But don't go around their streets proud to be gay ? Like seriously ? Lol

It's not like they are holding the world cup in 3rd world countries. FIFA can and should have standards.

That said, FIFA can only do so much. I agree with the others saying you have to be careful where you go.

 

[dolabla]

Are we sure this is really what happened? Or was there maybe something more to this story? Like two sides (fans) running their mouths to one another and someone lost their shit? Either way, it's still messed up since someone got seriously injured.

 

[Cato]

No but these countries are especially bad. HEll in Qtar you had slaves working on thee stadiums and over 5000 people dying during it so far.

Places like China, South Korea, Mexico, Argentinia New Zeeland etc are totally fine and great places. But you can not preech for sucha pphilosophy and then completly ignore it.
In qtar its even worse. Women are not allowed to wear t-shirts they are not allowed to kiss in public, no alcohol and so on. Even Russia are tolerant compared to this shithole of a country.

It is a tragic event but I think some part of the blame can be put on western media which is always very US centric for the lack of awareness of the dangers in some other parts of the world.
Many people just are not aware that travelling to xyz is not the same as travelling to Minnesota and the risks are different.

As for the reason for some lack of awareness? MSM can write a thousand articles about some baker refusing a cake in some fly-over state
but as soon as anyone mentions what sometimes happens to LGBT in a different country (middle east and former USSR are probably the worst for LGBT) there is immediate
panic about xenofobia, racism and whatever.


It is a sad story but what can you do. Maybe bring attention to this so people become more careful and we will prevent some of this from re-occuring.
It is unfair that people can not be themselves when travelling but reality is what it is.

 

[zumphry]

Maybe instead of telling people what to do, you could actually read their posts and make better arguements?

I said it was awful, no? I gave the example of Jews in antisematic places, no?

Would you tell someone to go swimming in an alligator infested swamp?

My arguements are to do with practicality. Russia hasn't banned homosexuality, last time I checked they don't prosecute for.your sexual orientation. If FIFA held a game in a highly religious part of the USA and someone got beat up, would you blame FIFA? Does FIFA need to get political and account for everonyes ideology, political beliefs, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, skin color, etc etc?

So you can take your ignorance and name calling elsewhere. I feel for the victims, but being naive and ignorant isn't helping anyone. If.you have gay friends I hope.you never give them advice. People with your kind of naive ideologies are largely a reason people suffer.

Help yourself not being so ignorant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-gay_purges_in_Chechnya

 

[Shamylov]

Maybe instead of telling people what to do, you could actually read their posts and make better arguements?

I said it was awful, no? I gave the example of Jews in antisematic places, no?

Would you tell someone to go swimming in an alligator infested swamp?

My arguements are to do with practicality. Russia hasn't banned homosexuality, last time I checked they don't prosecute for.your sexual orientation. If FIFA held a game in a highly religious part of the USA and someone got beat up, would you blame FIFA? Does FIFA need to get political and account for everonyes ideology, political beliefs, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, skin color, etc etc?

So you can take your ignorance and name calling elsewhere. I feel for the victims, but being naive and ignorant isn't helping anyone. If.you have gay friends I hope.you never give them advice. People with your kind of naive ideologies are largely a reason people suffer.

Why give Russia the World Cup at all? They don't deserve it if their homophobia issue caused a futbol fan to get brain damage. This isn't at all like telling someone to go swimming in an alligator-infested swamp; it's more akin to holding an event with worldwide attendance in an alligator-infested swamp. Why are we doing this? The more practical solution is for more worthy countries to host the event.

Also, you're the one who brought up how you're not homophobic in your first post (even though you clearly are) so don't accuse me of name-calling when it's a relevant part of the discussion. By the way, I'm sure the victim doesn't care about how sorry you feel for him or how many gay friends you have when you're literally blaming him for what happened and calling him dumb for getting attacked. That people act like you and side with the attackers is the reason why people suffer.

 

[oagboghi2]

It is a tragic event but I think some part of the blame can be put on western media which is always very US centric for the lack of awareness of the dangers in some other parts of the world.
Many people just are not aware that travelling to xyz is not the same as travelling to Minnesota and the risks are different.

As for the reason for some lack of awareness? MSM can write a thousand articles about some baker refusing a cake in some fly-over state
but as soon as anyone mentions what sometimes happens to LGBT in a different country (middle east and former USSR are probably the worst for LGBT) there is immediate
panic about xenofobia, racism and whatever.


It is a sad story but what can you do. Maybe bring attention to this so people become more careful and we will prevent some of this from re-occuring.
It is unfair that people can not be themselves when travelling but reality is what it is.

You can't attack Republicans for LGBT issues in Qatar, that why people don't know and don't care.

Our news today is delivered as activism by activists. There isn't much interest in news that can't be used to fuel a cause.

 

[Shamylov]

It is a tragic event but I think some part of the blame can be put on western media which is always very US centric for the lack of awareness of the dangers in some other parts of the world.
Many people just are not aware that travelling to xyz is not the same as travelling to Minnesota and the risks are different.

As for the reason for some lack of awareness? MSM can write a thousand articles about some baker refusing a cake in some fly-over state
but as soon as anyone mentions what sometimes happens to LGBT in a different country (middle east and former USSR are probably the worst for LGBT) there is immediate
panic about xenofobia, racism and whatever.


It is a sad story but what can you do. Maybe bring attention to this so people become more careful and we will prevent some of this from re-occuring.
It is unfair that people can not be themselves when travelling but reality is what it is.

The reality is that Russia is evidently a dangerous place for gay people. So rather than hosting a huge event like the World Cup and then going through the trouble of warning people about the homophobia, how about we just don't have them host the event at all?

 

[oagboghi2]

The reality is that Russia is evidently a dangerous place for gay people. So rather than hosting a huge event like the World Cup and then going through the trouble of warning people about the homophobia, how about we just don't have them host the event at all?

If we are judging this by crime, than the world cup will be left to just blue states in America and some parts of the EU. You might as well just call it the European Union cup

 

[Shamylov]

If we are judging this by crime, than the world cup will be left to just blue states in America and some parts of the EU. You might as well just call it the European Union cup

The World Cup should be enjoyed by everyone in the world. How can that be the case if people are getting brain damage for harmless thing such as showing gayness? Also, why should we overlook the dangers of hosting the World Cup in countries like Russia? You care about the safety of gay people so little?

 

[oagboghi2]

The World Cup should be enjoyed by everyone in the world. How can that be the case if people are getting brain damage for harmless thing such as showing gayness? Also, why should we overlook the dangers of hosting the World Cup in countries like Russia? You care about the safety of gay people so little?

If your litmus test for hosting the world cup is gay violence, than you shutting off the majority of the planet. It's not FIFA's job to control the local politics of a country, they can't guarantee violence won't happen.

If you are going to ban Russia from having the world cup, than you have to ban America as well. Plenty of violence against homosexuals here as well

 

[Shamylov]

If your litmus test for hosting the world cup is gay violence, than you shutting off the majority of the planet. It's not FIFA's job to control the local politics of a country, they can't guarantee violence won't happen.

If you are going to ban Russia from having the world cup, than you have to ban America as well. Plenty of violence against homosexuals here as well

It's not about politics since that would be an entirely different discussion; it's about the safety of futbol fans. It's logical that the hosting nation should be required to keep attendees safe.

When was the last time a gay sports fan was viciously attacked at an event just for displaying gayness? Don't be ridiculous, the US is not equivalent to Russia on this issue.

 

[Hotspurr]

I think I want to add one important point that is missed.

I think most people here would agree that what happened to these people is terrible and they certainly don't deserve it. The people who attacked did a terrible and unjustifyable act.

Having said all that, Russia is a conservative gray area for homosexuals (they are not prosecuted but not protected either). My advice to anyone going is to do your research. Many places there are also heavily antisematic and racist. The learning here isn't who to blame, there is no question who is to blame on a moral level.

On a practical level, try to be careful. This is not victim blaming. It's saying you should be extra careful with what you communicate to others in places where people are ignorant and violent when it comes to their ideology.

What we can do as observers is urge the media to report on this and also tell those affected not to blindly assume people to be as accepting as in progressive (humane, I use progressive as a good thing) places.

And as I said before, due to this gray area, FIFA is not some political police. When you mix international crowds with different ideloigies there will always be tensions. Would it be worth painting ALL Russians as homophobes by banning FIFA tournaments from happening there? Moscow and St Petersburg have vibrant lgbtq communities, just so people understand.

 

[Shamylov]

I think I want to add one important point that is missed.

I think most people here would agree that what happened to these people is terrible and they certainly don't deserve it. The people who attacked did a terrible and unjustifyable act.

Having said all that, Russia is a conservative gray area for homosexuals (they are not prosecuted but not protected either). My advice to anyone going is to do your research. Many places there are also heavily antisematic and racist. The learning here isn't who to blame, there is no question who is to blame on a moral level.

On a practical level, try to be careful. This is not victim blaming. It's saying you should be extra careful with what you communicate to others in places where people are ignorant and violent when it comes to their ideology.

What we can do as observers is urge the media to report on this and also tell those affected not to blindly assume people to be as accepting as in progressive (humane, I use progressive as a good thing) places.

And as I said before, due to this gray area, FIFA is not some political police. When you mix international crowds with different ideloigies there will always be tensions. Would it be worth painting ALL Russians as homophobes by banning FIFA tournaments from happening there? Moscow and St Petersburg have vibrant lgbtq communities, just so people understand.

We've had posters in this thread literally blaming the victim for not hiding his gayness and even calling him dumb; I very much doubt their intent is to dispense safety tips to gay people travelling to Russia. Focusing on how to be careful when being gay in Russia when the biggest issue is that they get to host the World Cup, is some homophobic nonsense. Russia shouldn't have been the host if they can't be bothered to keep their homophobia problems under control.

EDIT: cleaned up the post a bit

 

[zumphry]

If we are judging this by crime, than the world cup will be left to just blue states in America and some parts of the EU. You might as well just call it the European Union cup

Why would only hosting the cup in certain countries prevent other teams from playing in it?

 

[Greedings]

I hate this term "victim blaming" it's so pathetic. Have some damn self responsibility. No one is claiming that bad people aren't bad and are not at fault, but if you don't take precautions, then you have to shoulder at least some of the responsibility.

It's basic common sense. If you're in a rough area, you don't walk around with your $600 phone out, waving it around. If you're gay and you're going to an extremely homophobic country, don't make it obvious your gay.

 

[Scopa]

Are we sure this is really what happened? Or was there maybe something more to this story? Like two sides (fans) running their mouths to one another and someone lost their shit? Either way, it's still messed up since someone got seriously injured.

I asked the OP for more sources, as the original “source” link isn’t working (Pink News is not the original source). He hasn’t responded.

So I decided to spend 5 minutes myself looking into it. The original claim is from Russian social media and is completely unverified. The only recognisable western publications that have mentioned it (The Sun/Metro/News.com/Daily Mail), have not verified the claims whatsoever.

I need more proof than that, I’m sorry.

In todays current political climate, I’m leaning towards the usual anti-Russian propaganda here. It seems to be working judging by some of the unintelligent and knee-jerk reactive comments in this thread.

If someone’s got a verified source, I’d like to see it please.

 

[Shamylov]

I asked the OP for more sources, as the original “source” link isn’t working (Pink News is not the original source). He hasn’t responded.

So I decided to spend 5 minutes myself looking into it. The original claim is from Russian social media and is completely unverified. The only recognisable western publications that have mentioned it (The Sun/Metro/News.com/Daily Mail), have not verified the claims whatsoever.

I need more proof than that, I’m sorry.

In todays current political climate, I’m leaning towards the usual anti-Russian propaganda here. It seems to be working judging by some of the unintelligent and knee-jerk reactive comments in this thread.

If someone’s got a verified source, I’d like to see it please.

True, it seems as if there's no reliable source for the news so I'm leaning towards false until proven otherwise. Thank you to those that pointed it out.

I suppose it's good that we don't know for sure that no people have been hurt in hate crimes but the attitude that some members here have shown is still disgusting.

 

[ilfait]

The world doesn't evolve around US and other countries that support gay community. When you go to a country , check what their believes are toward such a thing. Going there and you know they don't support gay people it's like you going against them in their country and challenge them for what you believe is right when they believe it's sick and wrong. Gay is not ok in most countries in the world. Stop acting like it's and act all shock and mad . Keep it for your self. Be glad they were not in Muslim countries. They would have been dead for sure .

They should have known better regardless what the OP think. Dont challenge other countries beliefes. They will stomp on you.

And same goes for anything really aside from gay stuff. Like, visiting Israel and you are wearing a Palestinian flag shirt or vise versa or eating pork in public in a Muslim country etc. Some stuff you do might get you killed.

When you go to other country respect it's habbits and culture . What these 2 did was the opposite. What did you expect the results to be ?

FIFA has nothing to do with this.it goes with any sports that goes world wide

Edit: just to clarify, I don't support violence. And I hope he gets better. But fuck lol honestly what did they expect ?

Oh I fully respect a good old Russian fag stomping. And when I'm in Pakistan I respectfully remove my fedora during female genital mutilations.

Whoever did this deserves a skull stomping that's ten times more severe than the one they delivered to someone who was doing no harm to anyone.

 

[Cato]

Oh I fully respect a good old Russian fag stomping. And when I'm in Pakistan I respectfully remove my fedora during female genital mutilations.

I understand what you refer to, but lets give //DEVIL// the benefit of doubt. He might just not speak english very well.

In the bolded sentence, replace "respect" with "be aware of" and it comes across much differently. The end meaning is still the same "be careful in those countries"
but it no longer come across as victim blaming.

 

[ilfait]

I understand what you refer to, but lets give //DEVIL// the benefit of doubt. He might just not speak english very well.

In the bolded sentence, replace "respect" with "be aware of" and it comes across much differently. The end meaning is still the same "be careful in those countries"
but it no longer come across as victim blaming.

Hopefully you're right.

 

[ilfait]

I hate this term "victim blaming" it's so pathetic. Have some damn self responsibility. No one is claiming that bad people aren't bad and are not at fault, but if you don't take precautions, then you have to shoulder at least some of the responsibility.

It's basic common sense. If you're in a rough area, you don't walk around with your $600 phone out, waving it around. If you're gay and you're going to an extremely homophobic country, don't make it obvious your gay.

Or do. I admire someone who's aware of the risk but takes it anyway out of principle.

 

[Cato]

Hopefully you're right.

I hope so too.

In my mother tongue in fact, the word "respect" can actually be used in these two diametrically different meanings depending on context.
He/she might be from the same place I am from

Example :
* "Show respect and honor your elders"
* "Respect that that part of town is really rough and bad things often happen to outsiders that stray there"

see ?

 

[Shamylov]

I understand what you refer to, but lets give //DEVIL// the benefit of doubt. He might just not speak english very well.

In the bolded sentence, replace "respect" with "be aware of" and it comes across much differently. The end meaning is still the same "be careful in those countries"
but it no longer come across as victim blaming.

DEVIL hasn't shown he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Considering we are talking about a possible hate crime, he decides to focus his criticism solely on the victims and has nothing bad to say about the homophobia in Russia at all (actually, he wants us to "respect" them). Also, he pushed back on the idea that FIFA deserves any blame for allowing Russia to host the event. I can't say for sure that DEVIL's views align with a homophobe's, but his victim blaming, tone, and arguments are indistinguishable from those I would expect a homophobe to make.

 

[ilfait]

I hope so too.

In my mother tongue in fact, the word "respect" can actually be used in these two diametrically different meanings depending on context.
He/she might be from the same place I am from

Example :
* "Show respect and honor your elders"
* "Respect that that part of town is really rough and bad things often happen to outsiders that stray there"

see ?

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I interpreted what he said as some combination of the two.

 

[//DEVIL//]

DEVIL hasn't shown he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Considering we are talking about a possible hate crime, he decides to focus his criticism solely on the victims and has nothing bad to say about the homophobia in Russia at all (actually, he wants us to "respect" them). Also, he pushed back on the idea that FIFA deserves any blame for allowing Russia to host the event. I can't say for sure that DEVIL's views align with a homophobe's, but his victim blaming, tone, and arguments are indistinguishable from those I would expect a homophobe to make.

I mentioned this to one of the mods regarding something else . I am neither against or pro gay to be honest . In the sense I do not care if someone is gay or not. I have no disrespect for them or anyone regarding his sexual preferences.

Speaking of English . It's not my first language no.l actually know 3 languages and honestly I suck at them all but that is not the point of this topic .
I do not care what others might think of my opinion either . This is a forum and everyone is entitled to his opinion regardless if that person is pro or anti gay as long as he respect others feelings . This is an International forum and thousands of opinion might vary from one person to another.

From the first post I made I said I am not a toxic or a hateful person.and no one deserves a beating over his sexual preferences. All I said that when you visit an X country. To follow and respect their traditions .These 2 gay people would have been hurt regardless if there was a FIFA world cup or not, it's the people on X country ( in which case is Russia ) are not keen to gay people just like for example it's not ok to eat beef in front of Indians in public or whatever X country tradition. I swear, it's really simple logic .You visiting other country ? Go ahead and have fun. Just don't do something they are not ok with. You are not a prophet to change their beliefs . Heck even prophets got beaten up when they tried to do something at first.

This is like a woman wearing a bikini walking in Saudi Arabia streets and want others to watch her and be ok with it .cmon lol.
Is it ok for some outside the US to visit and start saying the N word ? They will beat him in 2 minutes. Or is it ok for a woman to be topless in Walmart ? If someone visiting the US he should respect it's people and their habbits . ( Sorry not from US so I do not know much of the US tradition and habbits )

But does anyone deserve to die because he prefer different sexual preferences ? No of course not. However I do understand why it happened. Not supporting it.

 

[zumphry]

ah yeah here we go

being gay and existing = calling some the n word

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Isn't it illegal to be gay there?

 

[theignoramus]

This thread is the new neogaf OT in a nutshell. I knew there would be an effort in here apportion blame to people/things other than the perpetrators of this hate crime.

 

[Jezan]

It don't matter what people believe, it don't give them the right to go around attacking others. Your cowardly victim blaming bullshit is what makes this place look bad. Get some standards.

Wow, so it's because victim blaming that bigots will attack gay people?

Russia has been very vocal about their stance on LGBT, they send gay people to concentration camps.
So don't tell me that gay people can freely walk and nothing will happen to them. It doesn't matter if you, in America (or wherever you are), think that's wrong, because for Russian bigots it's not.

So no, being careful in a country that does not respect LGBT is not wrong or takes away from being an ally.

And it is FIFA's fault but they won't do anything because they care about money and not morals.

 

[Shamylov]

I mentioned this to one of the mods regarding something else . I am neither against or pro gay to be honest . In the sense I do not care if someone is gay or not. I have no disrespect for them or anyone regarding his sexual preferences.

Speaking of English . It's not my first language no.l actually know 3 languages and honestly I suck at them all but that is not the point of this topic .
I do not care what others might think of my opinion either . This is a forum and everyone is entitled to his opinion regardless if that person is pro or anti gay as long as he respect others feelings . This is an International forum and thousands of opinion might vary from one person to another.

From the first post I made I said I am not a toxic or a hateful person.and no one deserves a beating over his sexual preferences. All I said that when you visit an X country. To follow and respect their traditions .These 2 gay people would have been hurt regardless if there was a FIFA world cup or not, it's the people on X country ( in which case is Russia ) are not keen to gay people just like for example it's not ok to eat beef in front of Indians in public or whatever X country tradition. I swear, it's really simple logic .You visiting other country ? Go ahead and have fun. Just don't do something they are not ok with. You are not a prophet to change their beliefs . Heck even prophets got beaten up when they tried to do something at first.

This is like a woman wearing a bikini walking in Saudi Arabia streets and want others to watch her and be ok with it .cmon lol.
Is it ok for some outside the US to visit and start saying the N word ? They will beat him in 2 minutes. Or is it ok for a woman to be topless in Walmart ? If someone visiting the US he should respect it's people and their habbits . ( Sorry not from US so I do not know much of the US tradition and habbits )

But does anyone deserve to die because he prefer different sexual preferences ? No of course not. However I do understand why it happened. Not supporting it.

You say you don't support what happened but you have more understanding for the attackers than you do for the victims.

The World Cup is a major event and it shouldn't be hosted in a country where gay people have to hide who they are in fear of being hurt. You understand that gay people face danger in Russia and you can't connect that with FIFA making a mistake allowing Russia to host the event.

You're not neutral to gay people. You're harmful. You don't care about their safety and in this particular case, you show more understanding to the attackers than to fans of futbol. It's obvious.

By the way, I should note that I am still aware that the story is unverified so I'm discussing it as a hypothetical.

 

[Shamylov]

Wow, so it's because victim blaming that bigots will attack gay people?

Russia has been very vocal about their stance on LGBT, they send gay people to concentration camps.
So don't tell me that gay people can freely walk and nothing will happen to them. It doesn't matter if you, in America (or wherever you are), think that's wrong, because for Russian bigots it's not.

So no, being careful in a country that does not respect LGBT is not wrong or takes away from being an ally.

And it is FIFA's fault but they won't do anything because they care about money and not morals.

I don't how many more ways this has to be explained. You care more to discuss how the gay couple is (at least partly) to blame for getting attacked; that is not the behavior of an ally at all because you are victim blaming. Nowhere is it written that the couple fully expressed how dangerous Russia is, that they willingly and recklessly disregarded that danger, or that they very conspicuously displayed their gayness. The most we can say is that they are futbol fans in Russia and vicious homophobes picked up on the fact that they're gay and decided to attack them.

Why would you bother so much to place blame on the victim if not for the fact that you care about them so little (or at least less than the homophobia that caused them to be attacked)?

Note: the story is still unverified so I'm just discussing it as a hypothetical.

 

[Scopa]

This thread is the new neogaf OT in a nutshell. I knew there would be an effort in here apportion blame to people/things other than the perpetrators of this hate crime.

And your post is the old NeoGAF in a nutshell, making statements about a crime that has not been verified in anyway whatsoever yet and making no attempt to seek the truth of the matter before sounding off about “hate crimes”.