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Halo Infinite Multiplayer is out NOW

Banjo64

cumsessed
this never happened in older Halo games. Halo 5 had basically all modes populated to a degree even 2 years after launch. and that game launched with like 10 to 15 playlists with more added after launch

Infinite is simply dying because it's a terrible game, it already lost almost all of its population. MCC is catching up to Infinite again, and that is a collection of decade old games
Halo 5 was dead online for me (UK) after 3 years or so. Infinite is a joke.

343 have literally forced me to go to Destiny 2 (never played D2 before) and Apex Legends.

Just can’t do it anymore and I don’t see why I should wait for a ridiculous amount of time like 9+ months for them to add over 1 map to their now dead game. Even Overwatch and Splatoon 3 will be far more popular than Infinite in the short term and long term.
 
Halo 5 was dead online for me (UK) after 3 years or so. Infinite is a joke.

343 have literally forced me to go to Destiny 2 (never played D2 before) and Apex Legends.

Just can’t do it anymore and I don’t see why I should wait for a ridiculous amount of time like 9+ months for them to add over 1 map to their now dead game. Even Overwatch and Splatoon 3 will be far more popular than Infinite in the short term and long term.
It’s been 9 months already since the game released huh? Wow 😮 you must be from the future. Dead game? So all those people still playing are just all ghost people? There’s no shying away that this game needs more content because the base game is amazing. It’s ok to be dissatisfied about the time it’s taking to get stuff which is valid. Then there’s just making up shit.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
It’s been 9 months already since the game released huh? Wow 😮 you must be from the future. Dead game? So all those people still playing are just all ghost people? There’s no shying away that this game needs more content because the base game is amazing. It’s ok to be dissatisfied about the time it’s taking to get stuff which is valid. Then there’s just making up shit.
Are you a muppet, or just a shill? 3k players on Steam and people can’t get a game on ranked already;



And yeah, when 343 say there’s only 2 specific maps (1 Arena map) coming out in Season 2, that’ll take us up to 9 months post launch. If 343 reverse that decision and release more maps? Great, hopefully they do - doesn’t change the fact that their public plan is to only add those 2 though.

I don’t have to make shit up, face the facts mate.
 
Are you a muppet, or just a shill? 3k players on Steam and people can’t get a game on ranked already;



And yeah, when 343 say there’s only 2 specific maps (1 Arena map) coming out in Season 2, that’ll take us up to 9 months post launch. If 343 reverse that decision and release more maps? Great, hopefully they do - doesn’t change the fact that their public plan is to only add those 2 though.

I don’t have to make shit up, face the facts mate.

Glad steam is the only platform halo infinite is on like I said you’re delusional.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
Glad steam is the only platform halo infinite is on like I said you’re delusional.
Sadly you’re the delusional one.

Here’s the Xbox snapshot for you (despite Xbox being a much smaller platform than Steam).


lbUIDY7.jpg


wxN1P64.jpg


z8ymBYt.jpg


Great reading (only to a mental person).
 

Phase

Member
People complained about the lack of playlists in Infinite.

Having too many game modes has killed the prior games as only Slayer ends up being highly populated.

I was vocal about this.

Having 4 permanent game modes max made sense (BTB/Lone Wolves/Slayer & Objective) but instead 343 added pointless game modes permanently like Fiesta and diluted their own player base.

Low and behold;



Pathetic.

A big reason why I (and many of my friends growing up) played Halo was the amazing choice in playlists. Without playlists like doubles, snipers, swat, etc. I stop playing. Variety is a key part of Halo's success.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
A big reason why I (and many of my friends growing up) played Halo was the amazing choice in playlists. Without playlists like doubles, snipers, swat, etc. I stop playing. Variety is a key part of Halo's success.
I agree with you but the player base doesn’t support this level of dilution. I’d have the 4 core permanent modes I listed and then have a 5th playlist on rotate every week out of doubles/snipers/shotty snipes/grifball/swat/fiesta.
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
The game is bad/terrible on the design level and no amount of post-launch support can change that, 343 can add as many maps and playlists as they want but the core mechanics are the issue. Like Spencer said in one interview - people were eager to play something fresh and new for once, something other than yet another BR or typical class-based MP, and arena shooter felt like a great fit for that crowded market, and it was, but that honeymoon has ended.

It's a 20yo formula that simply doesn't work anymore, it's just feels so damn wrong/broken on so many aspects it feels like a 1st game of some indie studio that has no idea what it's doing. It's basically the exact same game as Halo 5, except the AR is useful this time around up to 7m instead of just 3. The game is just not fun to play, it's very exhausting, painful even, even winning FFA by a large margin doesn't feel rewarding or satisfying, the amount of effort you have to put just to get a single kill is just plain stupid.
 
Why are people so obsessed with how many other people play. Its a good game I play daily...theres always enough people to fill a match. More content will come, more seasons will bring new items and player count will rise and fall. Why does it matter if it's number 1 or number 200 on steam. If you like play, if you don't like play something you like.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
A big reason why I (and many of my friends growing up) played Halo was the amazing choice in playlists. Without playlists like doubles, snipers, swat, etc. I stop playing. Variety is a key part of Halo's success.

You guys didn't just play CTF on Blood Gulch like 95 percent of the time like we did?
 

Hezekiah

Banned
ferris buellers day off ugh GIF


$70 billion on Activision, can't get a decent Live Team going at 343 to work on their flagship IP. Makes sense.

this never happened in older Halo games. Halo 5 had basically all modes populated to a degree even 2 years after launch. and that game launched with like 10 to 15 playlists with more added after launch

Infinite is simply dying because it's a terrible game, it already lost almost all of its population. MCC is catching up to Infinite again, and that is a collection of decade old games
The Steam numbers seem to reflect that.

Since completing the campaign I can't bring myself to go back. Just too sameish, and I get much more enjoyable and balanced gameplay out of Battlefield 5.
 
The game is bad/terrible on the design level and no amount of post-launch support can change that, 343 can add as many maps and playlists as they want but the core mechanics are the issue. Like Spencer said in one interview - people were eager to play something fresh and new for once, something other than yet another BR or typical class-based MP, and arena shooter felt like a great fit for that crowded market, and it was, but that honeymoon has ended.

It's a 20yo formula that simply doesn't work anymore, it's just feels so damn wrong/broken on so many aspects it feels like a 1st game of some indie studio that has no idea what it's doing. It's basically the exact same game as Halo 5, except the AR is useful this time around up to 7m instead of just 3. The game is just not fun to play, it's very exhausting, painful even, even winning FFA by a large margin doesn't feel rewarding or satisfying, the amount of effort you have to put just to get a single kill is just plain stupid.
Horrible take

There are a thousand things wrong or missing from this game but you pick literally the only aspect that is praised by almost all players.
 
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tmlDan

Member
Why are people so obsessed with how many other people play. Its a good game I play daily...theres always enough people to fill a match. More content will come, more seasons will bring new items and player count will rise and fall. Why does it matter if it's number 1 or number 200 on steam. If you like play, if you don't like play something you like.
i think its because it also dictates the amount of support it gets, if people don't play they may drop it and make a new game rather than continue to give it content consistently.
 

Calverz

Member
The game is bad/terrible on the design level and no amount of post-launch support can change that, 343 can add as many maps and playlists as they want but the core mechanics are the issue. Like Spencer said in one interview - people were eager to play something fresh and new for once, something other than yet another BR or typical class-based MP, and arena shooter felt like a great fit for that crowded market, and it was, but that honeymoon has ended.

It's a 20yo formula that simply doesn't work anymore, it's just feels so damn wrong/broken on so many aspects it feels like a 1st game of some indie studio that has no idea what it's doing. It's basically the exact same game as Halo 5, except the AR is useful this time around up to 7m instead of just 3. The game is just not fun to play, it's very exhausting, painful even, even winning FFA by a large margin doesn't feel rewarding or satisfying, the amount of effort you have to put just to get a single kill is just plain stupid.
Excuse Me Reaction GIF by One Chicago
 

manfestival

Member
Halo 5 was dead online for me (UK) after 3 years or so. Infinite is a joke.

343 have literally forced me to go to Destiny 2 (never played D2 before) and Apex Legends.

Just can’t do it anymore and I don’t see why I should wait for a ridiculous amount of time like 9+ months for them to add over 1 map to their now dead game. Even Overwatch and Splatoon 3 will be far more popular than Infinite in the short term and long term.
What is it about this game that killed the experience for you? I never really bothered playing the other games on MP much. Played them for their campaigns and maybe would do like 2-3 matches total of MP before moving onto my usual MP carousel.

Also I would like to know what turns off the Halo veterans from this game? I know what pushes me away in general but curious about others opinions, especially those that are more invested in the franchise.
 
i think its because it also dictates the amount of support it gets, if people don't play they may drop it and make a new game rather than continue to give it content consistently.
I know the game isn't perfect but much of it feels more like concern trolling when they try to nitpick how far it's fallen on steam or Xbox.
 

FireFly

Member
It's a 20yo formula that simply doesn't work anymore, it's just feels so damn wrong/broken on so many aspects it feels like a 1st game of some indie studio that has no idea what it's doing. It's basically the exact same game as Halo 5, except the AR is useful this time around up to 7m instead of just 3. The game is just not fun to play, it's very exhausting, painful even, even winning FFA by a large margin doesn't feel rewarding or satisfying, the amount of effort you have to put just to get a single kill is just plain stupid.
I must have missed the VK78 Commando, Skewer, Heatwave, Cindershot, Shock Rifle and Mangler in Halo 5. And the Grappling Hook, Repulsor and Drop Wall.
 

Helghan

Member
The game is bad/terrible on the design level and no amount of post-launch support can change that, 343 can add as many maps and playlists as they want but the core mechanics are the issue. Like Spencer said in one interview - people were eager to play something fresh and new for once, something other than yet another BR or typical class-based MP, and arena shooter felt like a great fit for that crowded market, and it was, but that honeymoon has ended.

It's a 20yo formula that simply doesn't work anymore, it's just feels so damn wrong/broken on so many aspects it feels like a 1st game of some indie studio that has no idea what it's doing. It's basically the exact same game as Halo 5, except the AR is useful this time around up to 7m instead of just 3. The game is just not fun to play, it's very exhausting, painful even, even winning FFA by a large margin doesn't feel rewarding or satisfying, the amount of effort you have to put just to get a single kill is just plain stupid.
It's the exact opposite. Gameplay is amazing, just not enough content.
 

chaseroni

Member
Yeah I love the gameplay but there is fuck all to do in the game this far into launch.
I'm only coming back for co-op campaign, whenever that happens.
After finishing the BP and getting Onyx, I just don't feel the desire to play anymore.
1 new map is not enough.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Horrible take

There are a thousand things wrong or missing from this game but you pick literally the only aspect that is praised by almost all players.

So not by many given the game is dying. The list of what's wrong with the game, why it's leaking players is very long, but long story short - the game is irrational. Nothing really makes sense, the game desperately tries to be different than other games on even the most basic aspects, and that's why people are going back to their go-to MP games, where everything works as you'd expect them to. Take the radar for example - it's fuckign worthless, it gives no map awarness whatsoever, but whenever you're trying to sneak up on enemies, flank them, you're permanently highlited. That's one of the design choices that won't get a pass in modern gaming (especially with that broken respawn system which is IMO easily the no.1 issue with the game).
 

FireFly

Member
So not by many given the game is dying. The list of what's wrong with the game, why it's leaking players is very long, but long story short - the game is irrational. Nothing really makes sense, the game desperately tries to be different than other games on even the most basic aspects, and that's why people are going back to their go-to MP games, where everything works as you'd expect them to. Take the radar for example - it's fuckign worthless, it gives no map awarness whatsoever, but whenever you're trying to sneak up on enemies, flank them, you're permanently highlited. That's one of the design choices that won't get a pass in modern gaming (especially with that broken respawn system which is IMO easily the no.1 issue with the game).
Where are the people in this thread complaining about the radar? Almost all the complaints are about the amount of content, progression system or netcode, which have nothing to do with the core gameplay.

If you don't want to appear on the radar, you can crouch walk, just like in any other Halo game.
 
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chaseroni

Member
Where are the people in this thread complaining about the radar? Almost all the complaints are about the amount of content, progression system or netcode, which have nothing to do with the core gameplay.

If you don't want to appear on the radar, you can crouch walk, just like in any other Halo game.
I've played over 100 hours of multiplayer in this game and not once have I heard anyone complain about the radar.
Definitely not the issue here lol
 

vj27

Banned


Some hopium for you guys since all I’ve seen is non stop bitching. Also, halo esports is bigger than its ever been, which is good. Selling out venues and stuff.

Apparently there’s another mode to, lots of leaks these past few days. TLDR drop pods and warzone/BR, bringing bombs to enemy SHIPS. Etc, I just wish 343 would let people know what they’re working on but I can bet money there just waiting for E3 to have maximum eyes on them… even though everyone’s on halos ass rn for being barebones but whatever, it’s probably what they’ll do. Can see them making season 3 a whole thing at E3.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Almost all the complaints are about the amount of content, progression system or netcode, which have nothing to do with the core gameplay.

I'm one of those "core gameplay is bad" guys.

10 second respawn.
6 second run to action.
15 second gunfight.
Die.
Repeat.

That gameplay loop sucks today. It never had a chance.

Halo has officially entered it's Goldeneye phase. Amazing for it's time, but people are finally waking up to the fact that it's bad by modern standards.
 
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BlackTron

Member
So not by many given the game is dying. The list of what's wrong with the game, why it's leaking players is very long, but long story short - the game is irrational. Nothing really makes sense, the game desperately tries to be different than other games on even the most basic aspects, and that's why people are going back to their go-to MP games, where everything works as you'd expect them to. Take the radar for example - it's fuckign worthless, it gives no map awarness whatsoever, but whenever you're trying to sneak up on enemies, flank them, you're permanently highlited. That's one of the design choices that won't get a pass in modern gaming (especially with that broken respawn system which is IMO easily the no.1 issue with the game).

So the radar is useless, except when your enemy uses it against you?
 

FireFly

Member
I'm one of those "core gameplay is bad" guys.

10 second respawn.
6 second run to action.
15 second gunfight.
Die.
Repeat.

That gameplay loop sucks today. It never had a chance.

Halo has officially entered it's Goldeneye phase. Amazing for it's time, but people are finally waking up to the fact that it's bad by modern standards.
TTK for almost every weapon is under 2 seconds and the AR is 1.25 seconds.


The only way a fight is lasting 15 seconds is if one of you is running away.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
TTK for almost every weapon is under 2 seconds and the AR is 1.25 seconds.


The only way a fight is lasting 15 seconds is if one of you is running away.

When I say fight I mean the highly engaging "frontline". When the player sees an opponent(s), tosses some grenades, takes some shots etc...

That action is the most engaging or fun part of the game.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
So your complaint is simply the time taken to get into a gunfight?

It's one aspect. 50 percent of the gameplay loop doesn't engage the player. Respawning and running towards the action isn't engaging gameplay.

I'd also argue that the fun part of Halo multiplayer (the shooting and getting shot at) isn't fun relative to the competition on the market. There's very little engagement variety with the simplistic mechanics. Point standard weapons at enemies, stay close to cover, and try to click on heads + melee when shields are down are the ingredients to a cake that doesn't taste good anymore. The map design hasn't made meaningful improvements since Halo 1 / Halo 2.

The formula is basic, repetitive, and played out.

Bring on that BR / Warzone 2.0 mode ASAP.
 
It's one aspect. 50 percent of the gameplay loop doesn't engage the player. Respawning and running towards the action isn't engaging gameplay.

I'd also argue that the fun part of Halo multiplayer (the shooting and getting shot at) isn't fun relative to the competition on the market. There's very little engagement variety with the simplistic mechanics. Point standard weapons at enemies, stay close to cover, and try to click on heads + melee when shields are down are the ingredients to a cake that doesn't taste good anymore. The map design hasn't made meaningful improvements since Halo 1 / Halo 2.

The formula is basic, repetitive, and played out.

Bring on that BR / Warzone 2.0 mode ASAP.
You can apply what you said to literally every FPS.

Also if you don't like running towards action why would you want a BR lol. 90% of BR's are running around the giant map finding loot.
 

BigLee74

Member
Some of the rubbish being posted in this thread. 😂😂 If you don’t like the game, no need to constantly post your moans. Drop the game, move on to one you like, and spare us the repeated tales of woe.

There is ALWAYS room for an arena shooter to fill in those 30-45 minutes of game time that present themselves now and again. That’s the magic of games like Halo and COD.

Does Halo need more maps. Badly! Does Halo need a Battle Royale mode? Does it bollocks. Warzone was great though, that can (and I’m sure will) come back!
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
You can apply what you said to literally every FPS.

Also if you don't like running towards action why would you want a BR lol. 90% of BR's are running around the giant map finding loot.

No. BRs give players choices to make during their gameplay loop that Halo never does.

"What should I do now?"

1) Get to circle.
2) 3rd party that fight.
3) Scrounge for loot.
4) Go grab a vehicle.
5) Heal.
6) Hide.
7) Set trap.
8) Go for supply drop.
9) Change into disguise.

There's exponentially more choices the player has to make during the 30 minute gameplay loop vs the 30 second gameplay loop found in Halo.
 
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I loved the game, but GaaS killed it. I would have chilled in my favorite game types if it was just a normal fucking game. Community would have formed around these tired, played out maps. But they created a system to burn you out before the live service got into a rythym.

With GaaS, you come back for ulterior reasons. This game was designed to breed discontent. I don't want to play if the freebies aren't good....but I keep thinking i might hop back into Halo CE once I recover from this mess. Good times await. There has to be a reason for that.
 
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Some of the rubbish being posted in this thread. 😂😂 If you don’t like the game, no need to constantly post your moans. Drop the game, move on to one you like, and spare us the repeated tales of woe.

There is ALWAYS room for an arena shooter to fill in those 30-45 minutes of game time that present themselves now and again. That’s the magic of games like Halo and COD.

Does Halo need more maps. Badly! Does Halo need a Battle Royale mode? Does it bollocks. Warzone was great though, that can (and I’m sure will) come back!

The interesting thing here is, speaking for myself being critical of Infinite, we love the franchise. We want the games to be good great and that is why we "post repeated tales of woe". Infinite is the usual 1 step forward and 2 steps back from 343. They should be called out on it. 343 should improve and going by MCC and Infinite's launch windows they still have not. The Infinite game state, content, framework, development pipeline and slipspace engine are far behind where they should be. Infinite in its current state is NOT an improvement to the franchise. You have it backwards, the ones being critical are some of the most passionate Halo fans.

I played 10,000s of games of Halo CE, 2, 3 and held strong with 343 during 4, MCC and 5 for a decent amount (especially firefight). I refuse to give them further slack with Infinite for a barebones backwards stepping delayed launch with lacklustre content/decisions and straight up shithouse matchmaking and netcode with maps and modes that I don't want to play. I continue to play MCC over Infinite these days.

Think Zanzibar, The Pit, Standoff, Avalanche, Burial Mounds, Coagulation using the trio of slayer, flag or bomb modes. Now name one map or mode from 343 that rivals that shit. You cannot in objective goodwill say anything even comes close. Infinite has continued that and broken more systems.

The saving grace for Infinite is likely Max Hoberman and his team working on this new mode. I really don't like the decision making out of 343 in many of their core game tenets e.g. ranking, progression, matchmaking, maps, esports focus etc. I truly hope Max has more pull and decision making with what he's been spearheading. Infinite desperately needs his expertise in terms of map design, modes of play, matchmaking systems and more.

Time will tell but there in lies the rub, 343 are always behind the 8 ball and never in front of it. One would have thought by now and 6.5 years of development time we'd be beyond where we Halo fans are at with Infinite.


EDIT: Have a look at this community project for Halo: CEA multiplayer and tell me it doesn't get as much hype from a Halo fan and that you'd have been ecstatic if Infinite BTB was like this but with the dev resources of what Infinite had for 6.5 years.


343 continue to reinvent the wheel but they really don't have to. Simplicity was always the key to Bungie's Halo. Throw the grappleshot into the above and we're fucking good to go for 100s or 1,000s of replays. Clean maps, clean lines, powerful vehicles, on foot goodness. The cluttered, frantic and random mess that is Infinite's BTB is a joke.
 
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FireFly

Member
It's one aspect. 50 percent of the gameplay loop doesn't engage the player. Respawning and running towards the action isn't engaging gameplay.
Well in a BR mode by design, the majority of the time is spent not engaging in contact with others. And then you die once and the "mode" is over. So realistically if you dislike waiting, BR would seem to be worst mode to champion. And the popularity of BR indicates that you only need a little, intermittent, action to provide intensity. Again with Warzone. The majority of time in Warzone is spent traversing the map to reach objectives. So I would say "respawning and running towards the action" is the perfect description of Warzone.

I'd also argue that the fun part of Halo multiplayer (the shooting and getting shot at) isn't fun relative to the competition on the market. There's very little engagement variety with the simplistic mechanics. Point standard weapons at enemies, stay close to cover, and try to click on heads + melee when shields are down are the ingredients to a cake that doesn't taste good anymore. The map design hasn't made meaningful improvements since Halo 1 / Halo 2.
You described the mechanics of a single weapon: the BR. The Mangler and Skewer deal huge damage but fire arcing shots that you have lead over long distances, and the Skewer has a huge reload time and limited ammo so you need to pick your shots extremely carefully. The Shock Rifle prioritises headshots, but fires a 3 round burst that you have to lead perfectly to take out your enemy in one shot. So we have 3 takes on a sniper rifle/shotgun that are like nothing else in the genre and require a lot more than just "clicking on heads".

The Disruptor, Plasma Pistol, Pulse Carbine and Ravager are designed for stripping shields so you can switch to your secondary weapon or allow your teammate to take over. However, the Ravager is best used as an area of denial weapon to target choke points with the AoE effect. The Pulse Carbine has a very specific sweet spot for the shots to track effectively, so when you use it, you have to be constantly managing your distance. Finally the Disruptor forces you to lead your shots and the relatively low TTK means you need to always be thinking about when to switch to your secondary weapon. So here we have 4 "utility" weapons that are about stripping shields but have nothing to do with "clicking on heads".

Then the Cindershot and Heatwave require you to bounce shots off objects in the environment to use them optimally. The heatwave has vertical and horizontal firing modes that trade off spread for concentration of damage. So for example you can take out an enemy's shields with the vertical mode and then bounce horizontal shots off the walls to target them as they try to escape. The Cindershot is similar to a grenade launcher, however it has a secondary mode that allows you to control the path of the grenade after it has bounced once. So the skill is to create a good first bounce and then target the enemy as they are trying to evade. So here are 2 super unique area of effect / denial weapons that have nothing to do with "clicking on heads".

Then we have the Sword and Hammer that are Halo staples, but are all about suprising your enemy, by lying in wait, jumping down from above or grappling to them. This kind of gameplay is pretty unique for an FPS I would say and again has nothing to do with "clicking on heads". And finally there are of course the "standard" Earth weapons that you would think are the same as any other shooter. But even there, the Sidekick and Commando require careful management of bloom, so don't behave like any regular pistol or AR.

I find it funny that you talk about Infinite having "standard" weapons, when it has one of the most unique and interesting arsenals of any shooter. Really it is much closer to something like Unreal Tournament than Call of Duty. Out of 22 weapons in total, only 3 or 4 are conventional weapons you would find in any other shooter.
 
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Dream-Knife

Banned
I'm one of those "core gameplay is bad" guys.

10 second respawn.
6 second run to action.
15 second gunfight.
Die.
Repeat.

That gameplay loop sucks today. It never had a chance.

Halo has officially entered it's Goldeneye phase. Amazing for it's time, but people are finally waking up to the fact that it's bad by modern standards.
I love Goldeneye. I also love Halo 1, 2, and 3s multiplayer.

I do not like Halo Infinite.
 

BigLee74

Member
The interesting thing here is, speaking for myself being critical of Infinite, we love the franchise. We want the games to be good great and that is why we "post repeated tales of woe". Infinite is the usual 1 step forward and 2 steps back from 343. They should be called out on it. 343 should improve and going by MCC and Infinite's launch windows they still have not. The Infinite game state, content, framework, development pipeline and slipspace engine are far behind where they should be. Infinite in its current state is NOT an improvement to the franchise. You have it backwards, the ones being critical are some of the most passionate Halo fans.

I played 10,000s of games of Halo CE, 2, 3 and held strong with 343 during 4, MCC and 5 for a decent amount (especially firefight). I refuse to give them further slack with Infinite for a barebones backwards stepping delayed launch with lacklustre content/decisions and straight up shithouse matchmaking and netcode with maps and modes that I don't want to play. I continue to play MCC over Infinite these days.

Think Zanzibar, The Pit, Standoff, Avalanche, Burial Mounds, Coagulation using the trio of slayer, flag or bomb modes. Now name one map or mode from 343 that rivals that shit. You cannot in objective goodwill say anything even comes close. Infinite has continued that and broken more systems.

The saving grace for Infinite is likely Max Hoberman and his team working on this new mode. I really don't like the decision making out of 343 in many of their core game tenets e.g. ranking, progression, matchmaking, maps, esports focus etc. I truly hope Max has more pull and decision making with what he's been spearheading. Infinite desperately needs his expertise in terms of map design, modes of play, matchmaking systems and more.

Time will tell but there in lies the rub, 343 are always behind the 8 ball and never in front of it. One would have thought by now and 6.5 years of development time we'd be beyond where we Halo fans are at with Infinite.


EDIT: Have a look at this community project for Halo: CEA multiplayer and tell me it doesn't get as much hype from a Halo fan and that you'd have been ecstatic if Infinite BTB was like this but with the dev resources of what Infinite had for 6.5 years.


343 continue to reinvent the wheel but they really don't have to. Simplicity was always the key to Bungie's Halo. Throw the grappleshot into the above and we're fucking good to go for 100s or 1,000s of replays. Clean maps, clean lines, powerful vehicles, on foot goodness. The cluttered, frantic and random mess that is Infinite's BTB is a joke.


I don’t think you were my target, but good response all the same.

There’s people like yourself that obviously want a return to the glory days with more and better maps, and it’s usual mental selection of game modes and fun.

Then there are people who are repeatedly saying Halo’s game modes are outdated and no fun at all, and it should move with the times and be Battle Royale.

It’s the latter I completely disagree with.

Halo is Halo. Its staples have been, and always will be, Slayer and BTB. That’s what players expect.

Infinites gameplay is great. They just need the map quality and variety to showcase it. I agree it’s a ridiculous state 343 are in at the moment, and I cannot believe how few maps there actually are (and how few are lined up for the next season).

I am pretty confident 343 will re-evaluate and plug away though. The core player base will remain, and the game will tick along in the meantime. One or two years from now, the content will be there, and the more causal players will drift back and be retained.

As an aside, concerns about the battle pass are justified, but the limitation is the game itself. The ability to unlock different bits of armour is not exciting, as they all look the same!
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
So the radar is useless, except when your enemy uses it against you?

Exactly, it just doesn't work as it's suppose to where you reveal yourself when you're actually shooting/killing people, not when you're just walking nearby and the enemy basically has a wallhack. It all has a huge impact on the overall flow of the game, which is bad in this case, and paired with bad level design/layout, and terrible/broken respawn system, it all combined creates this really un-fun to play flow of the geme, which is what ultimately matters in the end of the day, people are leaving because they don't have fun with the game. Similar reason if we're at it why Battlefield's flow is so fucking boring and people spend most of the time just running around those huge-ass maps searching for enemies, the games would've been SO much better if the minimap actually showed them where the gunfights are happening, the spotting system is as well an oudated idea that doesn't work anymore. If you're putting a radar in you map be sure to make it actually useful, or else get rid of it completely (like in Tactical Slayer which makes much more sense than the rest of the modes).

Now, I could go on with a list of dozen of things that don't work as expected, that are badly designed, with all the details details and situations they create, but I'd just waste my time here because I already see people here will defend the game the exact same way they did with Halo 5 back in the days - "no man, it's the sprint! the sprint is what's wrong with the game, it's GAMEBREAKING!" - yeah, I'm, pretty sure people were abbandoning H5 so early on because they could run just like they do in every other game they play...

It's not because of progression, which does need a lot of overhaul I fully agree, but at the end of the day it's just cosmetics, it's meaningless for the gameplay as you always spawn with the same two guns and have to pick up weapons on the map, the same way BR games work and somehow people aren't getting bored with those after year. It's not the playlist either, which again, the selection is really poor/bad, but again - people play BR a.k.a. a single mode you years, or Conquest in BF games, so it's clear people don't really need that much variety as long as theyr'e having fun. Most people just want to run around and shoot other players to begin with. The content? Again, in times of games with just one mode on one map, Halo looks like it's packed with content compared to ongoing trends, and we're just three months after launch, there will surely be more of it. So while those are real issues, the reality is people wouldn't be abandoning the game so fast so early if they had fun with it, that's the bottomline, the game isn't fun to play for most people out there, especially younger audience, whereas there are so few die-hard Halo fans to keep the game going.

Like I said - it's a 20yo formula that doesn't work, doean't attract the crowd, you're looking at the game from a Halo player bubble where you're used to this stuff and blindly accept all of it, completely ignoring the bigger picture, because the reality is that most of the OG Halo audience is in their late 30s/early 40s now, most of them just don't play the game anymore, and in order to survive the game needs to attract new young audience, which it fails to do the same way H5 did already. I mean, if you release you flagship FPS for free and people still don't want to play it, it says a lot. And where do you go from there? I'm pretty sure that's the question MS/343 are asking themselves now aside Infinite's support, what's the next move, the next game if even F2P model doesn't attract people to Halo. How many of the original CoD1/CoD2 people do you think still plays CoD nowadays? Exactly, it's mostly the new young blood, teenagers and youngsters, because the game adopts with times and current trends, it doesn't desperately tries to applaud to those 40yo pricks, Warzone was made because BR is the new hot thing and nobody from Activision was bending/denying the reality that noooo, that's now what CoD is about, that's not what people want etc., this is exactly what many people want to play today and that's what has been delivered, that why Warzone is such a huge success. And vice versa - games like UT and Quake Champions were cancelled because there's just not enough audience for those kind of oldschool/outdated games anymore.

The best (worst?) thing is that you can easily fix most of the stuff in Halo by yourself in custom games, where you can turn it into a normal, FUN game, but you need 7 buddies to play those or you're left with bots, which misses the whole point of MP. Maybe 343 will be able to somehow, magically turm the tides this year, regain the audience, attract new players, but if not, IMO it'll be the time to start thinking about a hard reboot for the series, leave the legacy and those few die-hard fans behind and push the series into modern times and new audience.


I'm one of those "core gameplay is bad" guys.

10 second respawn.
6 second run to action.
15 second gunfight.

Die.
Repeat.

You're lucky if you get even this, sometimes the game puts you in this broken respawn loop where you respawn, make 2-3 steps and die because the enemies are already at your back, and again, and again, 5-7 times before the game finally drops you in a safe place. Sometimes you kill the same guys 3 tiems in a row because he keeps respawning right in front of your eyes without any time for him to react. Good for you obviously, but sucks when it's you who keeps dying this way. Yesterday I saw my teammate spawning and a second later two enemies respawned right behind him... The respawn system is literally broken and needs to be fixed ASAP, stuff like playlists, progression, content/maps, that's the least of the game's concerns when the matches look like that, with random respawns random deaths, the gameplay loop is just plaing garbage, that's the reason people are leavign the game. But given H5 had the exact same respawn system and after all those years it's still the same in Infinite, I don't think 343 will ever look into the issue, that's just one of their many design choices I talked about, you can throw 20 additional maps and 10 extra playlists, but none of it won't matter if not a single match will be actually fun to play.
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
Exactly, it just doesn't work as it's suppose to where you reveal yourself when you're actually shooting/killing people, not when you're just walking nearby and the enemy basically has a wallhack. It all has a huge impact on the overall flow of the game, which is bad in this case, and paired with bad level design/layout, and terrible/broken respawn system, it all combined creates this really un-fun to play flow of the geme, which is what ultimately matters in the end of the day, people are leaving because they don't have fun with the game. Similar reason if we're at it why Battlefield's flow is so fucking boring and people spend most of the time just running around those huge-ass maps searching for enemies, the games would've been SO much better if the minimap actually showed them where the gunfights are happening, the spotting system is as well an oudated idea that doesn't work anymore. If you're putting a radar in you map be sure to make it actually useful, or else get rid of it completely (like in Tactical Slayer which makes much more sense than the rest of the modes).

Now, I could go on with a list of dozen of things that don't work as expected, that are badly designed, with all the details details and situations they create, but I'd just waste my time here because I already see people here will defend the game the exact same way they did with Halo 5 back in the days - "no man, it's the sprint! the sprint is what's wrong with the game, it's GAMEBREAKING!" - yeah, I'm, pretty sure people were abbandoning H5 so early on because they could run just like they do in every other game they play...

It's not because of progression, which does need a lot of overhaul I fully agree, but at the end of the day it's just cosmetics, it's meaningless for the gameplay as you always spawn with the same two guns and have to pick up weapons on the map, the same way BR games work and somehow people aren't getting bored with those after year. It's not the playlist either, which again, the selection is really poor/bad, but again - people play BR a.k.a. a single mode you years, or Conquest in BF games, so it's clear people don't really need that much variety as long as theyr'e having fun. Most people just want to run around and shoot other players to begin with. The content? Again, in times of games with just one mode on one map, Halo looks like it's packed with content compared to ongoing trends, and we're just three months after launch, there will surely be more of it. So while those are real issues, the reality is people wouldn't be abandoning the game so fast so early if they had fun with it, that's the bottomline, the game isn't fun to play for most people out there, especially younger audience, whereas there are so few die-hard Halo fans to keep the game going.

Like I said - it's a 20yo formula that doesn't work, doean't attract the crowd, you're looking at the game from a Halo player bubble where you're used to this stuff and blindly accept all of it, completely ignoring the bigger picture, because the reality is that most of the OG Halo audience is in their late 30s/early 40s now, most of them just don't play the game anymore, and in order to survive the game needs to attract new young audience, which it fails to do the same way H5 did already. I mean, if you release you flagship FPS for free and people still don't want to play it, it says a lot. And where do you go from there? I'm pretty sure that's the question MS/343 are asking themselves now aside Infinite's support, what's the next move, the next game if even F2P model doesn't attract people to Halo. How many of the original CoD1/CoD2 people do you think still plays CoD nowadays? Exactly, it's mostly the new young blood, teenagers and youngsters, because the game adopts with times and current trends, it doesn't desperately tries to applaud to those 40yo pricks, Warzone was made because BR is the new hot thing and nobody from Activision was bending/denying the reality that noooo, that's now what CoD is about, that's not what people want etc., this is exactly what many people want to play today and that's what has been delivered, that why Warzone is such a huge success. And vice versa - games like UT and Quake Champions were cancelled because there's just not enough audience for those kind of oldschool/outdated games anymore.

The best (worst?) thing is that you can easily fix most of the stuff in Halo by yourself in custom games, where you can turn it into a normal, FUN game, but you need 7 buddies to play those or you're left with bots, which misses the whole point of MP. Maybe 343 will be able to somehow, magically turm the tides this year, regain the audience, attract new players, but if not, IMO it'll be the time to start thinking about a hard reboot for the series, leave the legacy and those few die-hard fans behind and push the series into modern times and new audience.




You're lucky if you get even this, sometimes the game puts you in this broken respawn loop where you respawn, make 2-3 steps and die because the enemies are already at your back, and again, and again, 5-7 times before the game finally drops you in a safe place. Sometimes you kill the same guys 3 tiems in a row because he keeps respawning right in front of your eyes without any time for him to react. Good for you obviously, but sucks when it's you who keeps dying this way. Yesterday I saw my teammate spawning and a second later two enemies respawned right behind him... The respawn system is literally broken and needs to be fixed ASAP, stuff like playlists, progression, content/maps, that's the least of the game's concerns when the matches look like that, with random respawns random deaths, the gameplay loop is just plaing garbage, that's the reason people are leavign the game. But given H5 had the exact same respawn system and after all those years it's still the same in Infinite, I don't think 343 will ever look into the issue, that's just one of their many design choices I talked about, you can throw 20 additional maps and 10 extra playlists, but none of it won't matter if not a single match will be actually fun to play.
Another top post.

Halo has two fun things going for it that could appeal to the mainstream crowd;

1. Custom Game Browser
2. Firefight

Firefight in particular leans in to the Game Pass play with your friends ethos.

The fact that 343 couldn’t launch either, and don’t even have any plans to revive Firefight… it just fucks me off to be bluntly honest.
 

BigLee74

Member
Exactly, it just doesn't work as it's suppose to where you reveal yourself when you're actually shooting/killing people, not when you're just walking nearby and the enemy basically has a wallhack.

??? It works exactly as it’s supposed to, because that’s how Halo’s radar has always worked.

Now whether you like it or not, that’s a different question. 😂

Personally, I’ve always hated it, because I don’t like crouch toggle (I always activate it by accident in the middle of a fight), and it’s hard to crouch and move without it.
 
Another top post.

Halo has two fun things going for it that could appeal to the mainstream crowd;

1. Custom Game Browser
2. Firefight

Firefight in particular leans in to the Game Pass play with your friends ethos.

The fact that 343 couldn’t launch either, and don’t even have any plans to revive Firefight… it just fucks me off to be bluntly honest.

I'm still shellshocked they didn't have any PvE content. I get the GaaS aspect and bringing in future years but man what a missed opportunity right when COD Warzone and Battlefield were having huge backlash and Halo was running hot. It's mental 343 didn't have something going for progression and a massive PvE showing. Battle passes shared across multiplayer and PvE. Destiny and Bungie were/are out in front here again.
 

FireFly

Member
Exactly, it just doesn't work as it's suppose to where you reveal yourself when you're actually shooting/killing people, not when you're just walking nearby and the enemy basically has a wallhack. It all has a huge impact on the overall flow of the game, which is bad in this case, and paired with bad level design/layout, and terrible/broken respawn system, it all combined creates this really un-fun to play flow of the geme, which is what ultimately matters in the end of the day, people are leaving because they don't have fun with the game. Similar reason if we're at it why Battlefield's flow is so fucking boring and people spend most of the time just running around those huge-ass maps searching for enemies, the games would've been SO much better if the minimap actually showed them where the gunfights are happening, the spotting system is as well an oudated idea that doesn't work anymore. If you're putting a radar in you map be sure to make it actually useful, or else get rid of it completely (like in Tactical Slayer which makes much more sense than the rest of the modes).

Now, I could go on with a list of dozen of things that don't work as expected, that are badly designed, with all the details details and situations they create, but I'd just waste my time here because I already see people here will defend the game the exact same way they did with Halo 5 back in the days - "no man, it's the sprint! the sprint is what's wrong with the game, it's GAMEBREAKING!" - yeah, I'm, pretty sure people were abbandoning H5 so early on because they could run just like they do in every other game they play...
The point is that anyone can say "people are leaving because of X". I can say people are leaving because TTK is too high. Someone else can say people are leaving because the TTK too low. You mention the respawn system being bad, but I play Halo almost every single day and I can only remember being spawnkilled a handful of times. In B2B I spawn at the base and in Team Slayer I am placed with my team mates. Maybe there are some specific modes or maps where it happens more often, or maybe I have just been lucky or you have been super unlucky. Either way, the datapoint of a single person's experience is not enough to draw conclusions, because individual experiences are highly variable. For those that dislike Halo-style gameplay, of course they are going to be inclined to see a decline in player numbers as evidence of the inadequacy of that gameplay. In a world where the issue with Infinite really is lack of content, are you going to be the person to point it out?

So take the radar issue. Maybe I am wrong and radar is a big issue. So do a search on the forums for "Halo radar" and see what you get. Well, doing that search what I mainly see are people debating whether ranked should have radar, or complaining about the usability of the existing radar. So we have this huge issue that no one is talking about?

The content? Again, in times of games with just one mode on one map, Halo looks like it's packed with content compared to ongoing trends, and we're just three months after launch, there will surely be more of it. So while those are real issues, the reality is people wouldn't be abandoning the game so fast so early if they had fun with it, that's the bottomline, the game isn't fun to play for most people out there, especially younger audience, whereas there are so few die-hard Halo fans to keep the game going.
Well, part of "content" is having game modes that aren't just variations of deathmatch or CTF, and that allow for more tactical possibilities. Halo 5 launched with Warzone and quickly expanded that to Warzone Firefight, and Halo Infinite may not have any signficant modes added for a 9 month (!) period after launch.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
Why are people so obsessed with how many other people play. Its a good game I play daily...theres always enough people to fill a match. More content will come, more seasons will bring new items and player count will rise and fall. Why does it matter if it's number 1 or number 200 on steam. If you like play, if you don't like play something you like.
How is the overall health of a game’s population not important?

What tends to happen in certain regions when a game is unpopular is that you match with the same people again and again. That’s fine sometimes, until you get paired against a mega squad for 3 games in a row who absolutely curb stomp you.

Then there’s also the fact that at unsociable hours (1am on a Saturday) you end up waiting for 5 mins for a game, or in certain game modes you can’t get a game at all.

In America you are probably fine, but in the UK I couldn’t get a game in Halo 5 90% of the time after 3 years. So yeah, I care about the player population and 343’s diabolical attempts to maintain it at a healthy level.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Well in a BR mode by design, the majority of the time is spent not engaging in contact with others. And then you die once and the "mode" is over. So realistically if you dislike waiting, BR would seem to be worst mode to champion. And the popularity of BR indicates that you only need a little, intermittent, action to provide intensity. Again with Warzone. The majority of time in Warzone is spent traversing the map to reach objectives. So I would say "respawning and running towards the action" is the perfect description of Warzone.
It's not the action to downtime ratio that's the problem. I agree with you that Halo Infinite has a roughly 50:50 downtime to action ratio which is higher than any BR.

It's that the downtime in BRs is significantly more engaging for players, as is the action. BRs are almost like mini RPGs where you're building the strength of your character. During downtime, the player asks "Hows my health? How are my mats? How's my ammo? How are my weapons? How's my position?" You have to weigh what your needs are with the flow of the game. In Infinite the downtime is literally a black screen, or it's you running towards the fight with stock weapons and hopefully a good weapon pickup along the way. Then the action in BRs is all about creating intense (one life), memorable moments that can unfold in a number of interesting ways. Halo Infinites engagements all blend together and you can't remember anything by the end of your play session.

You described the mechanics of a single weapon: the BR. The Mangler and Skewer deal huge damage but fire arcing shots that you have lead over long distances, and the Skewer has a huge reload time and limited ammo so you need to pick your shots extremely carefully. The Shock Rifle prioritises headshots, but fires a 3 round burst that you have to lead perfectly to take out your enemy in one shot. So we have 3 takes on a sniper rifle/shotgun that are like nothing else in the genre and require a lot more than just "clicking on heads".

The Disruptor, Plasma Pistol, Pulse Carbine and Ravager are designed for stripping shields so you can switch to your secondary weapon or allow your teammate to take over. However, the Ravager is best used as an area of denial weapon to target choke points with the AoE effect. The Pulse Carbine has a very specific sweet spot for the shots to track effectively, so when you use it, you have to be constantly managing your distance. Finally the Disruptor forces you to lead your shots and the relatively low TTK means you need to always be thinking about when to switch to your secondary weapon. So here we have 4 "utility" weapons that are about stripping shields but have nothing to do with "clicking on heads".

Then the Cindershot and Heatwave require you to bounce shots off objects in the environment to use them optimally. The heatwave has vertical and horizontal firing modes that trade off spread for concentration of damage. So for example you can take out an enemy's shields with the vertical mode and then bounce horizontal shots off the walls to target them as they try to escape. The Cindershot is similar to a grenade launcher, however it has a secondary mode that allows you to control the path of the grenade after it has bounced once. So the skill is to create a good first bounce and then target the enemy as they are trying to evade. So here are 2 super unique area of effect / denial weapons that have nothing to do with "clicking on heads".

Then we have the Sword and Hammer that are Halo staples, but are all about suprising your enemy, by lying in wait, jumping down from above or grappling to them. This kind of gameplay is pretty unique for an FPS I would say and again has nothing to do with "clicking on heads". And finally there are of course the "standard" Earth weapons that you would think are the same as any other shooter. But even there, the Sidekick and Commando require careful management of bloom, so don't behave like any regular pistol or AR.

I find it funny that you talk about Infinite having "standard" weapons, when it has one of the most unique and interesting arsenals of any shooter. Really it is much closer to something like Unreal Tournament than Call of Duty. Out of 22 weapons in total, only 3 or 4 are conventional weapons you would find in any other shooter.

At a certain point you have to ask yourself the following question. Why have 7 of the last 9 Battle Royale games released been smash successes, and why have 0 of the last 15 Arena Shooters released been flops?

Games with the 10 second respawn, 6 second run to action, 15 second fight, die, repeat loop have struggled mightily for an extended period of time now.

The reason is that the arena shooter era (1992 - 2015) is over and the industry took its fundamentals and added meaningful context to to them to create more compelling genres.

Arena shooters are playing catch.
Battle Royale/Survival is football.

I can't understand suggesting the weapons in Halo Infinite are anything more than stock weapons we've all seen in games over the last 20 years. The only standouts to me are the grapple hook and the Wasp which are somewhat interesting.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Why are people so obsessed with how many other people play. Its a good game I play daily...theres always enough people to fill a match. More content will come, more seasons will bring new items and player count will rise and fall. Why does it matter if it's number 1 or number 200 on steam. If you like play, if you don't like play something you like.

I think it's because many of us (all of us) are nerds who are interested in the future of the medium.

When we look at what works vs what doesn't, we gain a vague understanding of what's likely coming in the next 3-5 years.

I don't think fans of arena shooters (all 23 of you) have much to worry about. All the big Battle Royales have added arena shooter modes to their games. It's a genre that's great for practice, learning new weapons, and waiting for friends to jump online, but it's not the main course anymore.
 

FireFly

Member
It's not the action to downtime ratio that's the problem. I agree with you that Halo Infinite has a roughly 50:50 downtime to action ratio which is higher than any BR.

It's that the downtime in BRs is significantly more engaging for players, as is the action. BRs are almost like mini RPGs where you're building the strength of your character. During downtime, the player asks "Hows my health? How are my mats? How's my ammo? How are my weapons? How's my position?" You have to weigh what your needs are with the flow of the game. In Infinite the downtime is literally a black screen, or it's you running towards the fight with stock weapons and hopefully a good weapon pickup along the way. Then the action in BRs is all about creating intense (one life), memorable moments that can unfold in a number of interesting ways. Halo Infinites engagements all blend together and you can't remember anything by the end of your play session.
So I can agree with that, if we distinguish between the combat mechanics and the game mode. In Stockpile for example you have to prioritise between defending your power seeds, stealing power seeds from the enemy base and helping pick up seeds in the environment. There is no single point of action, but a variety of different objectives all being contested at once. And you do get weapon and equipment pickups in the environment you can prioritise.

But the absense of a Warzone mode is felt, which is what Certain Affinity is expected to deliver. At some level, it comes down to semantics. You can say Infinite's gameplay is out of date, or you can say it is lacking modern game modes, but the core combat mechanics are fine.

I can't understand suggesting the weapons in Halo Infinite are anything more than stock weapons we've all seen in games over the last 20 years. The only standouts to me are the grapple hook and the Wasp which are somewhat interesting.
Well, which games have a weapon that can coat the floor with a substance that damages shields/armour? Which games have pistols with highly damaging rounds that arc? Which games have "shotguns" that fire pellets that bounce off walls in a vertical or horizontal spread? Which games have grenade launchers that allow you to manually control the trajectory of the grenade? Which games have a plasma rifle with rounds that track the target at specific distances?

If you can give me 5-10 titles for each of these types of weapon, I will agree they are "stock weapons". But I suspect what you really mean by "stock weapons" are weapons that fire a projectile that can hit an enemy. Kind of like how in the 90's some people called every shooter a "Doom-clone", because they involved firing guns at enemies on screen. If you're not interested in shooting mechanics generally, there's likely nothing 343 can do to interest or surprise you in that regard.
 
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