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[Tal Shiar Agent]

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

 

[Toa TAK]

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

This was my thought, too. Unless they gave them the name when they were trying to come up with it for the No-Majs.

But this second chapter was a lot better. Scourer's are some twisted fools.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

I need Benjamin Franklin to actually be a wizard.

 

[BlueWord]

No doubt about it, this whole thing with the Scourers is going to be an important plot point with regard to the antagonist in these new movies. Probably something like a No-Maj of influence or significance working against the community – in contrast to Voldemort, where the primary threat was from within the wizarding world itself, this would show how they react to an external threat.

Just speculation, here, but I think it would provide a really interesting contrast to the wizarding world in Europe, where magic seems to have settled comfortably into their own space.

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

Yeah, it's interesting. I expect there will be some role that the group played in influencing the birth of the USA proper.

 

[Arabesque]

The second piece was much better yeah. Scourer's in general are very interesting and the absence of Pure Blood dogma means that fundamentally the ideas of what makes someone a wizard/witch would be far different from the ones over in Europe. Reading about how No-Maj's got involved into wizard affairs by force (and seemingly slavery played a part) should be interesting to see unfold. Especially if the MACUSA had proven to be incapable of fixing the problem despite having been around longer than the No-Maj government had been established.

Somethings were odd though

There were no established wandmakers, and Ilvermorny School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, which would one day rank among the greatest magical establishments in the world, was at that time no more than a rough shack containing two teachers and two students.

I thought that the 11 wizard schools had to proven that they could wistand the test of time and survive to be allowed to become one of the great wizarding schools? Compared to Hogwarts, Uagadou and Mahoutokoro for example, who had been around for at least a millennium, a school that had been founded 4 century's ago being among the greatest magical establishment seems off.

Unless it's there cause 'Murica is just that good.

Secondly, the actions of their fellow No-Majs made the non-magical population of most wizards’ homelands look lovable. Not only had conflict developed between the immigrants and the Native American population, which struck a blow at the unity of the magical community, their religious beliefs made them deeply intolerant of any trace of magic. The Puritans were happy to accuse each other of occult activity on the slenderest evidence, and New World witches and wizards were right to be extremely wary of them.

Wish she didn't just gloss over how the Native Americans were treated, I'd imagine their No-Maj population being reduced so drastically didn't do them any favours.

Figured we probably not going to get much into the continental witch hunts (Spanish Inquisition etc.) since it occurred elsewhere, but it's good seeing the witch-hunts being acknowledged somewhat.

American magical historian Theophilus Abbot

What is with Rowling and the Abbot's? She always seems to fit them in wherever.

It may be partly due to the anti-magic beliefs and activities of the descendants of Scourer families that North American No-Majs often seem harder to fool and hoodwink on the subject of magic than many other populations.

I wonder what's Japan's attitude towards magic is going to look like then in Potterverse

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

Yeah, it's strange it would be called that unless the USA had rebelled because of the Wizards and so the country was named after the MACUSA rather than the other way round (George Washington was a wizard?)

Or Rowling is just going for its modern name and the organisation had no name before that.

I need Benjamin Franklin to actually be a wizard.

I'm more looking forward to Tesla.

 

[Permanently A]

Scourers :O

All this world building makes me wish there was a good Harry Potter MMO to play.

 

[Kinokou]

The second piece was much better yeah. Scourer's in general are very interesting and the absence of Pure Blood dogma means that fundamentally the ideas of what makes someone a wizard/witch would be far different from the ones over in Europe. Reading about how No-Maj's got involved into wizard affairs by force (and seemingly slavery played a part) should be interesting to see unfold. Especially if the MACUSA had proven to be incapable of fixing the problem despite having been around longer than the No-Maj government had been established.

I don't think they would dare to go in that direction. But a non magical threat seems neat.

 

[Fireblend]

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

Simple. They saw into the future, and noticed their magical congress was called MACUSA so they named it MACUSA.

Spoiler

Predestination paradoxes are the best.

 

[Arabesque]

I don't think they would dare to go in that direction. But a non magical threat seems neat.

I don't expect Rowling to go indepth about it, but the issue of slavery is there. The mention of human trafficking (both of No-Maj and actual wizards/witches) makes me think it will be touch upon, even if briefly.

A non magic threat is interesting because we might actually get to see how would muggles fair against magic in battle. Scourer's seem like such a cool concept for a threat, especially when you think about how their origins tie in with bounty hunters.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

EDIT: Piece Two is up.

Ok, this is more like it. There's some really cool stuff here..

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

Yeah, I'm hung up on this as well.

Does this mean the magical community named the US, and then the no-majs borrowed from it?

 

[Ensirius]

Harry Potter, 'Murica Edition.

 

[DedValve]

Would that make Ilvermorny the youngest of the great wizarding schools?

Your goddamn right we established ourselves as the greatest in a fraction of a fraction of the time the other non christian loving schools did.

USA! USA! USA!

*casts spell* Applaudus Clappus!

Spoiler

I am so digging the expansion of the HP universe.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Would that make Ilvermorny the youngest of the great wizarding schools?

Your goddamn right we established ourselves as the greatest in a fraction of a fraction of the time the other non christian loving schools did.

USA! USA! USA!

*casts spell* Applaudus Clappus!

Spoiler

I am so digging the expansion of the HP universe.

Acció gun for every kid!

 

[Zona]

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

Because Congress was a word before the US Congress was set up?

I really like these entries. I'm one of those weird people who would love a fictional encyclopedia though.

 

[DedValve]

Acció gun for every kid!

We wouldn't need to use that spell since we'd have our guns and backup guns on us at all times. AT ALL TIMES.

Spoiler

skinwalkers turn into giant guns

Does this make Bayonetta American now?

 

[butalala]

Because Congress was a word before the US Congress was set up?

No, because it uses "United States of America" in 1690 something.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

So, something I realise about the end of that piece.

It mentions that the American population is 'harder to fool and hoodwink' when it comes to magic, so... is that meant to mean that American conspiracy theory culture is because of realising the wizards in their midst?

 

[Toxi]

So, something I realise about the end of that piece.

It mentions that the American population is 'harder to fool and hoodwink' when it comes to magic, so... is that meant to mean that American conspiracy theory culture is because of realising the wizards in their midst?

I think it's just because we're so gullible when it comes to everything else.

 

[PSqueak]

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

Maybe the historian was calling it by the modern name for simplicity's sake? maybe it's like "The [now known as] MACUSA was formed 100 years before it's No-maj Counterpart".

Also, No-Maj totally sounds more slur-like than muggle.

 

[Permanently A]

JK Rowling under fire for writing about 'Native American wizards'

JK Rowling has been accused of appropriating the “living tradition of a marginalised people” by writing about the Navajo legend of the skinwalker in a new story.

The Harry Potter author posted the first part of a four-part series, the History of Magic in North America on her website Pottermore, on Tuesday. Subsequent episodes are being published each day at 2pm until Friday. Tying in to the release in November of the film Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, the short piece of writing deals with the magical New World in the 14th to 17th centuries.

Although the new insights into the universe of Harry Potter were welcomed by many, the author was strongly criticised online by a number of voices from Native American communities, particularly over her writing about skinwalkers, which in Navajo legend are said to be evil witches or wizards who can take on the form of animals.

Rowling writes that the myth “has its basis in fact … A legend grew up around the Native American Animagi, that they had sacrificed close family members to gain their powers of transformation. In fact, the majority of Animagi assumed animal forms to escape persecution or to hunt for the tribe. Such derogatory rumours often originated with No-Maj medicine men, who were sometimes faking magical powers themselves, and fearful of exposure.”

Responding to a question on Twitter, Rowling said that “in my wizarding world, there were no skinwalkers”, with the legend created by those without magic “to demonise wizards”.

But campaigner Dr Adrienne Keene told Rowling on Twitter that “it’s not ‘your’ world. It’s our (real) Native world. And skinwalker stories have context, roots, and reality … You can’t just claim and take a living tradition of a marginalised people. That’s straight up colonialism/appropriation.”

The academic also took issue with Rowling’s use of the phrase “the Native American community”, saying that “one of the largest fights in the world of representations is to recognise Native peoples and communities and cultures are diverse, complex, and vastly different from one another.”

 

[Toa TAK]

^I knew that was gonna happen.

 

[Snaku]

JK Rowling under fire for writing about 'Native American wizards'

Oh for fucks sake, I'd be more fucking offended over Stephenie Meyer making Native American tribes into werewolf packs.

 

[Arabesque]

It was always going to be a tricky issue, given that Native Americans usually get the short end of the stick. I personally think that it's okay to use myths as a basis for fictional stories, even change major details, in order fit the world the author wishes to create. It's a crucial part of allowing the artist freedom to be as creative as they wish to.

Rowling sort of did that with King Arthur, and with other historical events in her fiction, and she's trying to do the same here.

I do get why they'd be upset, but I doubt Rowling is attempting to reinforce stereotypes or misinform people in this case.

Oh for fucks sake, I'd be more fucking offended over Stephenie Meyer making Native American tribes into werewolf packs.

That's deflecting the actual issue here. JK Rowling is not Stephine Meyer, and just because Native Americans take issue with how their culture is being used in one story doesn't mean they can never take issue with another.

The colonialism/appropriation criticism is not without merit, given how Native Americans had been viewed (and used) in stories and fiction. Again, I don't think Rowling ever had ill intent, but it is important to listen to what NA say about it.

 

[DrForester]

Could be worse. They could have gone the Star Trek route which went with the idea that Native Americans were cultureless savages until white guys from Space visited Earth to give them wisdom.

 

[Permanently A]

It was always going to be a tricky issue, given that Native Americans usually get the short end of the stick. I personally think that it's okay to use myths as a basis for fictional stories, even change major details, in order fit the world the author wishes to create. It's a crucial part of allowing the artist freedom to be as creative as they wish to.

Rowling sort of did that with King Arthur, and with other historical events in her fiction, and she's trying to do the same here.

I do get why they'd be upset, but I doubt Rowling is attempting to reinforce stereotypes or misinform people in this case.



That's deflecting the actual issue here. JK Rowling is not Stephine Meyer, and just because Native Americans take issue with how their culture is being used in one story doesn't mean they can never take issue with another.

The colonialism/appropriation criticism is not without merit, given how Native Americans had been viewed (and used) in stories and fiction. Again, I don't think Rowling ever had ill intent, but it is important to listen to what NA say about it.

The part of the argument I don't understand is why NA view it as appropriation to incorporate an aspect of their history/culture into a fictional story. What separates a reference that is respectful from one that is considered appropriation?

 

[Arabesque]

The part of the argument I don't understand is why NA view it as appropriation to incorporate an aspect of their history/culture into a fictional story. What separates a reference that is respectful from one that is considered appropriation?

I think the example DrForester mentioned shows what makes appropriation different from a respectful reference. Also, part of the problem is that Native Americans had it so bad for so long with none-Native American creatives either misrepresenting their culture and giving them stereotypes that the colonists had viewed what Native Americans were like, rather than what they actually were. They have always been trying to get rid off such misconceptions because it has no actual basis in their histories and myths. As such, when another author tries to put on their spin on it, there is the feeling that it just another time where they had been used by people who might not actually have that much knowledge or appreciation towards Native American history, and just want to add some different "flavour" to their work.

I think Rowling incorporated in part 1 Native American culture without any of the usual trappings you'd find elsewhere, and I think it is fine as it is. But I do get why they'd be a upset about the skinwalkers being a perceived case of "stupid Native American No-Maj jealous of talented Native American wizard".

 

[JonnyDBrit]

The part of the argument I don't understand is why NA view it as appropriation to incorporate an aspect of their history/culture into a fictional story. What separates a reference that is respectful from one that is considered appropriation?

Keene's argument (the primary one being sourced by a lot of places) is that to the uninformed, Rowling's interpretation and/or integration of (an admittedly small part of) Native American folklore could lead people to diminish such as simply being an invention and/or part of her setting, and not something that actively matters to a very wide ranging culture that in various places is on the brink of extinction.

However, Keene... kind of falls into her own trap, though she admitted to it, and then tried to spin it in further support of her argument. Namely, that the bulk of references to British folklore (though Keene summarises it as 'celtic/druidic') which are also explained away as 'really' being to do with magic or the magical community, as it exists in the setting, kind of went over her head and so Keene imagined them as purely fantastical creations on Rowling's part, rather than something she had woven into the background lore of her series.

I'm curious, was there a similar degree of feedback in terms of 'cultural appropriation' for the other revealed schools? Like, I understand the initial confusion about where Uganda's school was something that got talked about, and the names got some mockery, but what about actual culture stuff?

 

[butalala]

Does a mirror for that article exist? It seems to have been crashed by angry HP fans. Also, how do you find mirrors?

Never mind it's up again. Sorry.

Now that I've read it, it's too bad that people feel hurt by this piece. I hope that further expansion of the N. American HP world answers some of the complaints that have been raised.

Maybe people could take solace in the fact that exposure to some aspects of Native American culture through HP can lead to appreciation of the real-world basis, like the bastardized latin that is used for spells?

I wonder what a version of this article that doesn't anger people would have looked like.

 

[ElFly]

The part of the argument I don't understand is why NA view it as appropriation to incorporate an aspect of their history/culture into a fictional story. What separates a reference that is respectful from one that is considered appropriation?

There are two separates issues here.

One is that Rowling only talks about the "Native American" which is a p generic term. It is an useful term, but also paints them all as members of a unified, generic group.

The second is the actual cultural appropiation and that is hard to solve without the author working with help of the actual people involved; if you are going to say "Ok this aspect of Navajo culture is explained by Harry Potter brand Wizards" there's no way around it, someone is going to say "hey, my ancestors are not part of your stupid HP universe". Do note that in the regular HP stories, the wizard community is separated from the real, "muggle" society and intersects very little, so why native american groups don't get the same treatment?

The safest way out is to invent a NA group/tribe whole cloth, basing it on some other groups.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

As a 3/512ths Chikasaw Indian, I'll allow it.

 

[Hard]

Did JK Rowling run out of money or something?

 

[Permanently A]

There are two separates issues here.

One is that Rowling only talks about the "Native American" which is a p generic term. It is an useful term, but also paints them all as members of a unified, generic group.

The second is the actual cultural appropiation and that is hard to solve without the author working with help of the actual people involved; if you are going to say "Ok this aspect of Navajo culture is explained by Harry Potter brand Wizards" there's no way around it, someone is going to say "hey, my ancestors are not part of your stupid HP universe". Do note that in the regular HP stories, the wizard community is separated from the real, "muggle" society and intersects very little, so why native american groups don't get the same treatment?

The safest way out is to invent a NA group/tribe whole cloth, basing it on some other groups.

If JK Rowling were to ignore Native Americans in the founding of wizard society in North America I guarantee she would be accused of whitewashing and revisionist history. I guess everyone can't be pleased on this matter. But thank you for your posts allowing me to gain new perspective in this matter.

 

[Verdre]

Did JK Rowling run out of money or something?

Given that this is all released for free on a free site... no.

 

[butalala]

Did JK Rowling run out of money or something?

I think she just really likes writing about HP.

Do note that in the regular HP stories, the wizard community is separated from the real, "muggle" society and intersects very little, so why native american groups don't get the same treatment?

I don't understand why this is an issue. I actually thought it was a nice touch, showing that some communities are more accepting of magic-users. As far as I know, this actually has
some basis in how some Native American groups treated trans/queer people.

 

[Arabesque]

I'm curious, was there a similar degree of feedback in terms of 'cultural appropriation' for the other revealed schools? Like, I understand the initial confusion about where Uganda's school was something that got talked about, and the names got some mockery, but what about actual culture stuff?

There wasn't much culture stuff beyond the names and locations to talk about. Uagadou location not being clarified at first and Mahoutokoro being on an island made some rattle, but in the end there wasn't much to go on from. At least not in the same level of history we are getting from Ilvermorny now.

I mean I guess we could read into Japanese wizards apparently training to dodge airplanes.

The safest way out is to invent a NA group/tribe whole cloth, basing it on some other groups.

Still not going to solve the issue of the colonialists having wiped out the majority of the NA tribes. Plus inventing some new tripe rather than an actual historical one wouldn't have been much better.

Do note that in the regular HP stories, the wizard community is separated from the real, "muggle" society and intersects very little, so why native american groups don't get the same treatment?

She does go into that a bit

In the Native American community, some witches and wizards were accepted and even lauded within their tribes, gaining reputations for healing as medicine men, or outstanding hunters. However, others were stigmatised for their beliefs, often on the basis that they were possessed by malevolent spirits

So this means that their communities were varying in how they treated wizards and witches in general.

I suspect it would be similar elsewhere other than Europe as well.

 

[LuuKyK]

Did JK Rowling run out of money or something?

HP's massive fan base wants more HP stuff, she likes writing about HP and feels like there is more to tell.

Is it that hard to understand? Why do people always come up with the same talk about money? If there is anyone in the world that has proven that is much better than just a money maker its JK Rowling.

 

[Jarmel]

Why would MACUSA be named as such almost 100 years before the founding of the actual United States? Doesn't make much sense.

The No-Majs got the name from the Wizarding version.

 

[ElFly]

I think she just really likes writing about HP.

I don't understand why this is an issue. I actually thought it was a nice touch, showing that some communities are more accepting of magic-users. As far as I know, this actually has
some basis in how some Native American groups treated trans/queer people.

I mean, you don't get to see the original books go "ok so between the catholics in ireland there were lots of wizards and so and so catholic traditions are actually wizardom" (I think the closest she gets is naming dumbledore's phoenix 'fawkes') but native americans do get their traditions explained away as wizardom.

It is not about painting wizards as part of their societies as something positive or negative, but about trivializing their history in favor of hp brand wizardom.

 

[Jarmel]

So I'm thinking some of the Scourer families got into politics and there might be Anti-Magic taskforces.

Unlike the British government that seemingly was unaware of magic, I imagine the US counterpart is aware.

 

[butalala]

I mean, you don't get to see the original books go "ok so between the catholics in ireland there were lots of wizards and so and so catholic traditions are actually wizardom" (I think the closest she gets is naming dumbledore's phoenix 'fawkes') but native americans do get their traditions explained away as wizardom.

It is not about painting wizards as part of their societies as something positive or negative, but about trivializing their history in favor of hp brand wizardom.

Oh right. Thanks.

 

[ElFly]

For the record, I am no native american, but I feel the worse issue is not the cultural appropiation, but the insistence on going "Native Americans" without giving more specific examples of any groups, either real or invented.

It'd be like Harry Potter happening in "some place of Europe" and just handwaving which place. It feels lazy and dismissive of the actual groups of native americans.

Of course, the actual people implied could differ from me in either direction.

 

[Arabesque]

So I'm thinking some of the Scourer families got into politics and there might be Anti-Magic taskforces.

Unlike the British government that seemingly was unaware of magic, I imagine the US counterpart is aware.

I am sure that the US government would have to be more aware of the presence of magic and magical people. I wouldn't be surprised if they even attempted to use them.

Turns out The Men Who Stare At Goats wasn't meant to be a book, but an actual field report in HP-verse

I still think that the way the Minstry of Magic had treated the British Government had been amazingly stupid. The Prime Minister is the only one allowed to ever know, but is not allowed to be involved with any of their matters, not premited to ever step into the Minstry of Magic because

No Muggle Prime Minister has ever set foot in the Ministry of Magic, for reasons most succinctly summed up by ex-Minister Dugald McPhail (term of office 1858-1865): 'their puir wee braines couldnae cope wi' it.'

and worse of all, has no guaranteed protection from the actual ministry in the case of a wizarding war?

Wow, I wonder how Voldemort ever managed to take over the MoM with such an attitude /s

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

The latest update goes full America, and has an incident of gun violence plus laws dictating the segregation of no-maj and wizarding communities.

 

[Toa TAK]

The latest update goes full America, and has an incident of gun violence plus laws dictating the segregation of no-maj and wizarding communities.

Daaamn.

Full on separation of the two communities. Wizarding in America isn't going so well.

 

[Barzul]

Wow. I would read a book on this. Please JK Rowling!!

 

[Arabesque]

The latest update goes full America, and has an incident of gun violence plus laws dictating the segregation of no-maj and wizarding communities.

Well, not as good as the last update, but still intreasting.

I'm glad to see that the wizarding community in the USA continues the tradition of making very bad mistakes around this time period. I guess this also the answers the slavery question quite enough.

The segregation implies that when a No-Maj has a witch or wizard born in their family, they are just spirited or taken away from them right? Not a good thing to have in the wizarding community.

Also, lol, already at 15th president. Rowling is totes going through the angle of the No-Majs having "stolen" the idea of the Union from the Wizards.

I can't wait till the civil war end up being mostly orchestrated by witches and wizards and the No-Majs also took their ideas for their own.

 

[genericsuperhero]

Well, not as good as the last update, but still intreasting.

I'm glad to see that the wizarding community in the USA continues the tradition of making very bad mistakes around this time period. I guess this also the answers the slavery question quite enough.

The segregation implies that when a No-Maj has a witch or wizard born in their family, they are just spirited or taken away from them right? Not a good thing to have in the wizarding community.

Also, lol, already at 15th president. Rowling is totes going through the angle of the No-Majs having "stolen" the idea of the Union from the Wizards.

I can't wait till the civil war end up being mostly orchestrated by witches and wizards and the No-Majs also took their ideas for their own.

Yeah, this update introduced an idea that I immediately hoped was going to end up in a Magical Civil War, between those who support the segregation and those who do not. It's an incredibly short-sighted law that would most likely result in the magical community dying out in a few generations, especially since she made a point of saying that the American magical community was bolstered from magical children birthed to No-Majs, and most pure-blood families had left around the witch trials or never came over.

 

[DrForester]

Think it would have been more impactfull if he had shot wizards. He gets the address and shoots the wrong building?

 

[gabrielt16]

It's the right building it just happens that the people exiting the building at the moment weren't wizards.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Think it would have been more impactfull if he had shot wizards. He gets the address and shoots the wrong building?

I'm assuming it was the right building, but magic was used to hide the magical entrance so he just shot no-majs who use the building regularly.