Freeman
Banned
Great they released nothing of importance and made a bunch of money, how does that help me? How does that translate to good games?
Last edited:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I'm still shocked as to how the momentum significantly shifted from Xbox being the ultimate underdogs of next-gen to being.......
- Thread starter MiyazakiHatesKojima
- Start date
- Opinion
CitizenX
Banned
It doesnt, they are doing what every business aims to do, spend less, make bank. They are really walking a thin line hanging everything and i mean everything on GP. I expect it to rise every yr. at least by $1-2 until it gets to $20-25 mo. or at least they see #s stagnate to achieve max ROI
DeaDPo0L84
Member
Xbox has seemingly never had a clear vision. It starts with something as simple as the names of their consoles all the way up to how they've handled their 1st party library.
Halo was a huge success for them when the original xbox launched. They managed to also find success in Gears of War and the Forza series. But they've been hitched to these franchises for so long that at least Halo and Gears have lost their star power. I don't believe those who haven't owned an Xbox in some time are suddenly going to run to the store when a new Halo or Gears gets shown,they simply don't have that old school hype behind them.
Plus most of the talent that created and made those games special is gone. These franchises now are essentially someone who bought a Destiny 2 account from someone who had all the best armor and weapons yet they don't know what to do with them.
This was evident for me personally with Halo 4 & 5 and Gears 4 & 5,they simply weren't the same as the trilogy that came before them. They have made some games that I enjoy like State and of Decay, Ori,and Sea of Thieves. But even though I enjoy those games they are simply not the console selling mega hits. They are more like supplemental games to the big heavy hitters.
I just wish Microsoft could get their shit together. Unfortunately they threw a hail mary late gen with gamepass and it found success to support their lackluster 1st party output. Because of this everything is a platform and no true sequels will be released for most 1st party games, it's simply not a approach that interest me. I feel like it stifles innovation and creativity cause its viewed as a $1 game rather than a $60 game.
I'm excited for Avowed and Fable,I genuinely think those games especially with how far they are out from release will end up doing great. State of Decay has always been a favorite of mine and I'm hoping the trailer shown means Microsoft is finally giving it the support it needs.
But other than that I'm just left with a big ole meh,but I'm absolutely happy with anyone who loves the Xbox platform in it's current form and enjoys most of their output. Play what you love,no exceptions.
Halo was a huge success for them when the original xbox launched. They managed to also find success in Gears of War and the Forza series. But they've been hitched to these franchises for so long that at least Halo and Gears have lost their star power. I don't believe those who haven't owned an Xbox in some time are suddenly going to run to the store when a new Halo or Gears gets shown,they simply don't have that old school hype behind them.
Plus most of the talent that created and made those games special is gone. These franchises now are essentially someone who bought a Destiny 2 account from someone who had all the best armor and weapons yet they don't know what to do with them.
This was evident for me personally with Halo 4 & 5 and Gears 4 & 5,they simply weren't the same as the trilogy that came before them. They have made some games that I enjoy like State and of Decay, Ori,and Sea of Thieves. But even though I enjoy those games they are simply not the console selling mega hits. They are more like supplemental games to the big heavy hitters.
I just wish Microsoft could get their shit together. Unfortunately they threw a hail mary late gen with gamepass and it found success to support their lackluster 1st party output. Because of this everything is a platform and no true sequels will be released for most 1st party games, it's simply not a approach that interest me. I feel like it stifles innovation and creativity cause its viewed as a $1 game rather than a $60 game.
I'm excited for Avowed and Fable,I genuinely think those games especially with how far they are out from release will end up doing great. State of Decay has always been a favorite of mine and I'm hoping the trailer shown means Microsoft is finally giving it the support it needs.
But other than that I'm just left with a big ole meh,but I'm absolutely happy with anyone who loves the Xbox platform in it's current form and enjoys most of their output. Play what you love,no exceptions.
Last edited:
Freeman
Banned
Yea, I'll keep sniping with my trials and promos on PC, but I don't like this direction at all.
Lets say everything goes right for MS, all they did was force everyone to adopt their same business model where eventually having lower quality games will catch up to them and other publisher will adapt.
I also have my doubts that console style games have as large as an audience as MS thinks.
Last edited:
Nemesis Prime
Member
How did it happen? Halo. Without Halo Xbox is a nothing console, they showed NO next gen gameplay, Infinite reveal was DOG shit. Horrendous strategy, why wouldn’t they show more of their games? Even if they aren’t ready snippets would be much more beneficial than dead CGI trailers
Bolivar687
Banned
They needed a mindblowing real time in game demonstration of what twelve teraflops looks like. Sony did that with Shadow Fall for the February reveal, way before where we are at right now in the launch timeline. Microsoft basically showed Halo and Psychonauts will look like in game, with nothing but trailers for everything else. Not only did they fail to show the power advantage they touted, the games just don't look next gen period.
There's probably a really interesting story to tell about what's going on inside at Microsoft now.
There's probably a really interesting story to tell about what's going on inside at Microsoft now.
GodzMustBeCrazy
Member
It wasn't a fluke, the Ps3 was delayed, so it had a year head start and still sold less then Ps3 even though people still think they somehow won that Gen.
Freeman
Banned
PS3 also had legit crazy design in retrospect. It was way more expensive, BR didn't take off like DVD, it wasn't clearly more powerful than the 360, it's was terrible for devs, it included a bunch of stuff that MS was able to charge extra for (free online, wireless, HDMI, batteries, HD), stuff that backfired like backwards compatibility and OtherOS and so on.
Last edited:
LeftThumbstick
Member
What is it they've actually done wrong though? Halo isn't quite up to scratch 4 month from release? What am i missing here?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Maybe it's because I post here and pay attention, but I thought they made it pretty clear that the first two years or so were going to be rather slow as their studios ramp up. With that in mind, I don't think what they showed was bad at all. The verdict is still out of course, but if you're a console-only gamer, it's still probably going to be the better box for 3rd party stuff.
Last edited by a moderator:
Psykodad
Banned
I think you misinterpreted my post.
Their best effort was still only reducing the gap in 3rd place and mostly due to them rushing a broken console and Sony messing up.
But it was their most successful gen.
Last edited:
VincentMatts
Member
Halo didnt blow people away, thats not the same as TV TV TV. Fact is, tons of games are still coming. XSX will be fine.
Nickolaidas
Member
You wanna know what happened?
I'll tell you what happened.
Halo fucking Infinite happened.
X-Box's showcase yesterday was fine. It had game announcements which made everyone happy. A Skyrim made by Obsidian. A new Fable. Everwild. All good and promising looking things.
Would gameplay on those games have been nice? Yes, it would. But the announcements themselves carry weight, as Sony proved with the Shenmue III/FFVII Remake announcements back in 2016.
So why do most of us consider it a clusterfuck?
Because of Halo Infinite.
You see ... Halo ... *IS* X-Box.
When Halo looks good, X-Box looks good.
When Halo flourishes, X-Box flourishes.
When Halo looks like shit, X-Box looks like shit.
Last day's showcase could've shown a new Gears, a new Ninja Gaiden, gameplay for every single game ... it wouldn't have mattered.
Halo is the 99% of the showcase. All the other games are the 1%.
Halo is the flagship, the symbol of X-Box. Which is why MS looks like a joke right now. Because Infinite ... looks like a joke.
And when your flagship title looks like a joke ... you don't get to tell me it will knock my socks off. You don't get to tell me I will need eye drops after witnessing the amazing visual quality. You don't tell me that I will watch the most amazing thing on the world's most powerful console, you fucking moron. You liar. You clown salesman.
What you do, is grab your balls and pull a Nintendo. You pull a Metroid Prime 4.
You, yes you, Phil, you walk on stage, without a smile, without a smug 'I'm the king' face ... and you say 'We have a responsibility to our players to give them the best experience imaginable. After many planning and many back and forth ... we came to the conclusion that Halo Infinite didn't meet our standards, and we're delaying the game until we can be sure that it's going to be the Halo game our fans deserve. The Halo game which will spearhead our X-Box dreams for the next five/ten years. We thank you for your loyalty. We will not let you down."
That's what you should've done, Phil. And that's why half the internet and then some is laughing at you and talks about apes and guerillas.
I'll tell you what happened.
Halo fucking Infinite happened.
X-Box's showcase yesterday was fine. It had game announcements which made everyone happy. A Skyrim made by Obsidian. A new Fable. Everwild. All good and promising looking things.
Would gameplay on those games have been nice? Yes, it would. But the announcements themselves carry weight, as Sony proved with the Shenmue III/FFVII Remake announcements back in 2016.
So why do most of us consider it a clusterfuck?
Because of Halo Infinite.
You see ... Halo ... *IS* X-Box.
When Halo looks good, X-Box looks good.
When Halo flourishes, X-Box flourishes.
When Halo looks like shit, X-Box looks like shit.
Last day's showcase could've shown a new Gears, a new Ninja Gaiden, gameplay for every single game ... it wouldn't have mattered.
Halo is the 99% of the showcase. All the other games are the 1%.
Halo is the flagship, the symbol of X-Box. Which is why MS looks like a joke right now. Because Infinite ... looks like a joke.
And when your flagship title looks like a joke ... you don't get to tell me it will knock my socks off. You don't get to tell me I will need eye drops after witnessing the amazing visual quality. You don't tell me that I will watch the most amazing thing on the world's most powerful console, you fucking moron. You liar. You clown salesman.
What you do, is grab your balls and pull a Nintendo. You pull a Metroid Prime 4.
You, yes you, Phil, you walk on stage, without a smile, without a smug 'I'm the king' face ... and you say 'We have a responsibility to our players to give them the best experience imaginable. After many planning and many back and forth ... we came to the conclusion that Halo Infinite didn't meet our standards, and we're delaying the game until we can be sure that it's going to be the Halo game our fans deserve. The Halo game which will spearhead our X-Box dreams for the next five/ten years. We thank you for your loyalty. We will not let you down."
That's what you should've done, Phil. And that's why half the internet and then some is laughing at you and talks about apes and guerillas.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Xbox isn't a risk for Microsoft that's why, Halo Infinite is blowing peoples minds right now and SONY consoles won't have THAT game.
Kerotan
Member
MAYBE hard-core halo fans although I've seen a ton of giving out from them but the general public haven't been wowed by this game.
Manwithoutfear
Member
The queen of shitposts miyazakihateskojima has returned. expected nothing less of a time waster from you.
Tumle
Member
oh ok.. was it a "TAKEN" situation that drove, the person to hate SONY that much?
OT.
i think when everything is said and done with this next generation, the difference between the two systems will be minimal in the looks department. This gen its really going to be the games that's going to decide who comes out on top(like always).
So hopefully MS has a lot more to show us.
Too bad about HALO.. hope the rumors, that it was an old build is true.... though isn't it a little bit late to implement better shaders, textures and lighting? should it be bug fixing time around this time (and 6 months back), to solve pop-in and other glitches?
Last edited:
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Making games for a 1.3TF console will of course cripple them for a 12TF console, you cannot have it both ways. All you will get is higher res and frame rates, but the game design and core features will be the same since you have to design to the lowest spec. BC would have been enough, but they want to straddle both gens for years?
Knitted Knight
Banned
Simple to explain. Their goal has never changed. Only their methods of achieving that goal. That is gamepass. You don't own the games; you're hooked to a subscription and they decide what you get, when you get it - just like Microsoft Office. Gamers will decide whether that flies or not.
Last edited:
BattleScar
Member
No it didn't.
They came in and on their very first try; the PSOne, they absolutely dumpstered the previous market incumbent and sold 100 million units. A feat that has only ever been achieved by a company other than Sony, once.
Sony were the epitome of instant success in the gaming market.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I think Xbox is fine. The overreaction and concern will die down and everyone will go back to enjoying GP. Trying to compare this to TV, TV, TV, is just dumb.
Halo has certainly fallen a notch or two more though, which while sad, isn't the end of the story.
Halo has certainly fallen a notch or two more though, which while sad, isn't the end of the story.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Of course not, as Xbox is more 'boots on the ground' while PS is more 'JRPG' and waifu, underage scantilly-clad-girl games. Other than the few big first party games, the system sells tons of niche Japanese games that cater to Eastern and European gamers.
MrS
Banned
What you don’t seem to understand is that when you buy a Sony console, you know that very good games are coming. You can trust them to deliver. The same can’t be said of Xbox based on this generation. In the last month we’ve been spoiled with TLOU2 and Ghost of Tsushima. Does Xbox own any studio who can make games as good as that? That’s the difference.
Humdinger
Member
Yeah, there is a lot of "all or nothing" thinking going on. People talk as if the event was a complete fail, like there is no middle ground.
I understand some people got their expectations way up, and now they are disappointed. But this happens all the time in the gaming world. It's nothing new. It's even predictable. It happened with the PS5 reveal (both of them), and now it's happened with the XSX reveals (both of them).
Let's just recognize that our expectations got out of whack, and adjust them back down to reality.
Dabaus
Banned
Gonna copy paste some thing I said a few years back about the 360s success being a fluke and why it probably won’t ever happen again:
The 360, more than anything was lightening in a bottle that could probably never be replicated again, with good management that is no longer there. Consider the 360 had:
-Year Head Start, 2 years in some regions
-100-200 Dollar price advantage
-Sony seemingly lost in the woods for the first 3 years of the generation
-Significantly easier to program for than ps3
-Perceived as leading the charge for online multiplayer for console depite ps3 also having this, for free i might add
-Halo 2's cliff hanger story and halo being the phenomenon that it was at the time
-Gears of war LOOKING as good as it did on top of being a good game
-Close relationship with Epic made 360 the lead platform for unreal engine 3, which was the main engine at the time
-Solid First party games Like Fable, Banjo Kazoie, Kameo, and a few others
-Recruiting Big name Japanese Developers like Sakaguchi
-Square enix president at the time was very pro xbox and seemingly had it out for playstation at the time
-Marketing Rights to Call of Duty when it was at its peak popularity
-Former PS2 Exclusives started becoming Multi platform giving the impression that the 360 was the place to be
-Kinect, Impressive technology although not very functional for gaming gave the 360 a second wind
-Lots of timed 3rd party exclusives like Mass Effect and Bioshock. Either from aggressive deal making, hard to program for ps3, or sony incompetence
All of this confluence into a perfect storm that also had the planets align. It would be difficult. if not near impossible to replicate even half of these.
Going into 2020 and comparing to the 360s advantages, the scarletts uphill climb looks like:
-There will not be a year head start, in fact it seems like sony is further along than xbox with what little we know.
-Price yet remains to be seen for both but sony has indicted numerous times that the ps3s price was problematic.
-Both Scarlett and PS5 will have very similar architecture
-Service wise Xbox is ahead but Gamepass isnt helping with Hardware sales currently
-Both Halo and gears of war are shadows of their former selves
-Sony has dramatically increased first party focus, so much so that its one of their main selling points
-Japanese support has all but collapsed. Very little incentive to make xbox ports, even less so for exclusives
-Most Japanese devs saw the negative impact of betting on xbox and have adjusted priorities
-Sony, not Microsoft are now the ones seeking out 3rd party deals
-Kinect is dead in the water, sony is dabbling with VR, which perhaps at some point could become a hit.
The 360, more than anything was lightening in a bottle that could probably never be replicated again, with good management that is no longer there. Consider the 360 had:
-Year Head Start, 2 years in some regions
-100-200 Dollar price advantage
-Sony seemingly lost in the woods for the first 3 years of the generation
-Significantly easier to program for than ps3
-Perceived as leading the charge for online multiplayer for console depite ps3 also having this, for free i might add
-Halo 2's cliff hanger story and halo being the phenomenon that it was at the time
-Gears of war LOOKING as good as it did on top of being a good game
-Close relationship with Epic made 360 the lead platform for unreal engine 3, which was the main engine at the time
-Solid First party games Like Fable, Banjo Kazoie, Kameo, and a few others
-Recruiting Big name Japanese Developers like Sakaguchi
-Square enix president at the time was very pro xbox and seemingly had it out for playstation at the time
-Marketing Rights to Call of Duty when it was at its peak popularity
-Former PS2 Exclusives started becoming Multi platform giving the impression that the 360 was the place to be
-Kinect, Impressive technology although not very functional for gaming gave the 360 a second wind
-Lots of timed 3rd party exclusives like Mass Effect and Bioshock. Either from aggressive deal making, hard to program for ps3, or sony incompetence
All of this confluence into a perfect storm that also had the planets align. It would be difficult. if not near impossible to replicate even half of these.
Going into 2020 and comparing to the 360s advantages, the scarletts uphill climb looks like:
-There will not be a year head start, in fact it seems like sony is further along than xbox with what little we know.
-Price yet remains to be seen for both but sony has indicted numerous times that the ps3s price was problematic.
-Both Scarlett and PS5 will have very similar architecture
-Service wise Xbox is ahead but Gamepass isnt helping with Hardware sales currently
-Both Halo and gears of war are shadows of their former selves
-Sony has dramatically increased first party focus, so much so that its one of their main selling points
-Japanese support has all but collapsed. Very little incentive to make xbox ports, even less so for exclusives
-Most Japanese devs saw the negative impact of betting on xbox and have adjusted priorities
-Sony, not Microsoft are now the ones seeking out 3rd party deals
-Kinect is dead in the water, sony is dabbling with VR, which perhaps at some point could become a hit.
Redlancet
Banned
Sure X warrior, its that way
Redlancet
Banned
Kinect and his ramifications were the beggining of the end for ms
Freeman
Banned
It is blowing people's mind, just not the way it was supposed to.
Last edited:
LarknThe4th
Member
They are trying a whole new business model we will see if it works out
And they are nowhere near the garbage fire of 2013
And they are nowhere near the garbage fire of 2013
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
That's not what's going to happen. With games as a service being a thing, MS will just release Halo Infinite as it is and promise to fix the game in the coming months and years., just like they did with Sea of Thieves when that launched incomplete.
anothertech
Member
343i really shat the bed didn't they
In their defense. Halo Infinite was supposed to be a cutting edge Xbox One game, based on what we saw, it looks like it was. Then the suits decided to shoe horn in the release onto the Xbox Series X and force cross gen.
It's not a next gen game, it's not built from the ground up, it's not anything Microsoft claimed it was. Halo was supposed to be out 2018 or 2019 on this gen. It would have been glorious if it had released at the intended time, on the intended system.
I think Microsoft PR is more to blame, maybe marketing.
To show that demo after the promises made, is terrible. No actually, its embarrassing all around.
The truth is, the conference would have been better with no Halo, that puts it into perspective.
CitizenX
Banned
I dont think its the quality, their AA games are rock solid because those teams are solid, their AAA stable of devs. not great but just good. They should ditch the console, we never know if anyone even bought their last one and become full on publisher.
They are not developers, they are circus barkers.
rob305
Member
Its probably not 2013 levels bad but they still blew it. Why show crap like tetris? They messed up their May "next gen" event, they acknowledged that and said just wait for the REAL games event in July. So much stuff was just a CGI as well. They could have tried to secure a couple of third party game trailers and shown that at least, stuff like call of duty which is probably close to being unveiled anyways.
ZehDon
Gold Member
It's scary because it's true. No one is really talking about... anything, except how bad Halo Infinite looked. I feel sorry for the developers who thought that this was their big moment to shine.
OutRun88
Member
It certainly seems that way.
Hell, they even managed to ruin the 360s amazing interface during its time.
THEAP99
Banned
Maybe, but even then, a lot of the stuff shown lacks mass appeal and was just a butt-load of cgi and in-engine stuff for games that are far away
Last edited:
supernova8
Banned
One could easily argue that their royal fuck up with the Xbox One reveal (coupled with them trying to force Kinect and always-online) was a case where people didn't just forget and move on. It gave Sony a massive head start and one that Microsoft never managed to recover from.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I think the major problem with Microsoft is that it can’t seem to position themselves worldwide besides US and UK. Like if you think of gaming in other countries, you mainly think of Nintendo, PlayStation, and PC.
njean777
Member
And what are all those PC's running?
I really see MS this gen (XSX) hopefully getting their studios off the ground and producing some great games. Sony didn't just plop on the scene and have all the great games. Hopefully MS decides to see the long game in this and nature their studios and create some great games.
Laconian Sword
Member
As someone who actually owned a Windows Phone by choice and is generally well-disposed towards modern day Microsoft, it doesn't totally surprise me that they failed to deliver to expectations.
Execution in all areas simultaneously has never been a Microsoft strength. Their products are always just short of the mark and end up frustratingly uneven in quality. Look at their Surface line. Those innovative devices should be blockbusters but instead every gen seems to be plagued by driver issues and shoddy software somehow.
From what I've heard first-hand and otherwise, the company just lacks the cohesion and discipline required to truly excel (ha!) in absolutely unforgiving areas outside the low standards of enterprise software.
How could they mess up so badly with Halo, of all things?
Execution in all areas simultaneously has never been a Microsoft strength. Their products are always just short of the mark and end up frustratingly uneven in quality. Look at their Surface line. Those innovative devices should be blockbusters but instead every gen seems to be plagued by driver issues and shoddy software somehow.
From what I've heard first-hand and otherwise, the company just lacks the cohesion and discipline required to truly excel (ha!) in absolutely unforgiving areas outside the low standards of enterprise software.
How could they mess up so badly with Halo, of all things?
anothertech
Member
I mean ya MS kinda shat the bed for them with that epic failure of a marketing push, but for me 343i had to prove themselves after MCC, and that showing told me everything I needed to know. Basically Halo by 343i will never be my halo.
Texas Pride
Banned
Playstation is a part of Sony's core business and it shows. Xbox for MS is a side project by comparison. And it shows. One is all in and the other isn't. It's nobody's fault but MS that their studios and gaming portfolio isn't where it should be by now. It's a credit to MS PR department they've been able sell anything off excuses year to year for as long as they have.
Last edited:
Hinedorf
Banned
I don't really understand "how we got here" mentality. Microsoft has been fucking up since the live X1 reveal and has done nothing to change course.
So many people bought the X1 on the pretense it was the "more powerful" console. And here we are with the xbox 1? S? I don't even know what to call it to be honest.
I'm very hyped for the next Microsoft console release to cause tons of people to get scammed and end up with an X1 because of Microsofts inability to distinguish their product. Could be the making for the first quarter where MIcrosoft sells more X1's than Sony does PS4's lol
So many people bought the X1 on the pretense it was the "more powerful" console. And here we are with the xbox 1? S? I don't even know what to call it to be honest.
I'm very hyped for the next Microsoft console release to cause tons of people to get scammed and end up with an X1 because of Microsofts inability to distinguish their product. Could be the making for the first quarter where MIcrosoft sells more X1's than Sony does PS4's lol
Similar threads
- Poll