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[kicker]

To those who might get defensive:
THIS IS NOT A MEASURE OF QUALITY. I BELIEVE THE GAME WILL BE GREAT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S AN RPG

Why does it matter then?
Because RPG describes a means of play that is very specific, and uniquely fun because of the specificity. Calling a game an rpg just because it borrows elements from rpgs (without using them to effect roleplaying) just confuses at best, and diminishes the importance of roleplaying within its own genre.

If I want to play a roleplaying game, why should I have to parse through several games within the category just to find one that allows roleplaying?
Should we create a separate category called 'core rpgs' or 'roleplaying rpgs'? Wouldn't that just be silly?


I believe RPGs need to allow the expression of choice and consequence through Narrative, Personality, and Combat. All the specific elements of rpgs (stats cutting across combat and dialogue, dialogue options, armor and weapon classes, character creation, narrative choices, experience points, etc) are there to effect roleplaying (through choice and consequenc).
FF16 does not appear to have that and won't allow roleplaying, in my opinion, and so shouldn't be considered an rpg before the term becomes meaningless and the games it describes disappear

 

[Danjin44]

Yes it’s RPG, we had fast paced combo heavy combat system in other JRPGs like Star Ocean and Tales of series.

 

[feynoob]

FF is jrpg.

 

[KungFucius]

JRPGs have never really been about choice and dialogue. They are just story driven games where you play the role of the lead. I haven't played FFXVI yet, but from what I can tell, it is a JRPG that is action heavy. Ask again in July when people have played enough of it to have an opinion based on actual experience.

 

[Loomy]

To address your separate category suggestion - No, that's not necessary. Genres have been blending for a long time now and it will continue to. If we start that, we'll be creating sub sub sub sub genres and that doesn't help.

Final Fantasy has never really been a 'pure RPG' in the sense that it checks off every box you listed. As a matter of fact, there haven't been a lot of pure RPG AAA games in a long long time. What we've been getting is a lot of other genres with RPG elements folded in.

I think in the long term, that's a much better approach. What you lose out on though, is the player character being a blank canvas you can role play as. That is almost entirely gone. Writers want to share a perspective and take you along for the ride.

It's an interesting question and conversation, I just don't think it matters as much anymore.

 

[Poltz]

FF16 is an RPG yes.

 

[mrmustard]

I think officially it's called action rpg just like Horizon Zero Dawn. Some say HZD is an action adventure and i bet some will say FF is an action adventure. But it doesn't matter, it stays the same game. Just like let's Terraria. Is it an Action-Adventure, a Sandbox game, an open-world-game or a Jump ’n’ Run? Who cares?

 

[Flutta]

Nah it’s a platformer…

 

[RoboFu]

It’s barely a FF game. . Only because it has the summons names from previous FF games. It’s definitely an action adventure through and through.

I still can change my mind.. it could be a great game but will it be a great FF game? That’s what I am unsure of.

 

[Kev Kev]

I’d have to play it first, but it looks like an action brawler with RPG elements. So yeah, it’s an RPG. But I agree with you that maybe we need more sub-genres of RPGs.

I will say, from the trailers, it’s the least looking RPG I’ve seen from Square in a long time.

 

[feynoob]

Jrpg= Japanese RPG. It involves your average RPG elements.
Wrpg is Western RPG. Same as jrpg.

The difference is region where it's being made.

 

[Three]

Now we need a thread for other Action Role Playing games like Elden Ring and Dark Souls.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Obviously yes. Just because an RPG has a realtime action combat system doesn't make it any less of an RPG. Have you played the Tales games before? There are many RPG series with action based combat systems.

 

[ParaSeoul]

It will still appeal to RPG gamers but people who like action games will probably not like it.

 

[kicker]

Obviously yes. Just because an RPG has a realtime action combat system doesn't make it any less of an RPG. Have you played the Tales games before? There are many RPG series with action based combat systems.

Yes it’s RPG, we had fast paced combo heavy combat system in other JRPGs like Star Ocean and Tales of series.

Did you read the op? I can't see where the specific combat system comes in.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think the real question here is whether you have a beef with the term JRPG.

Personally i always thought it was a weird denomination for what are essentially action adventure games with tactical combat. I'm more of a purist in the sense that to be considered a digital RPG, it must be based of classic analogue table-top RPGs.

 

[StereoVsn]

From what I have seen so far it seems to be an action adventure game with RPG elements. This is similar to Horizon ZD.

To lesser extent I think Cyberpunk is also an action adventure with RPG elements as well and so is Mass Effect 2.

 

[kicker]

a lot of pure RPG AAA games in a long long time.

I agree with your post. This part specifically is the annoying part. I worry by the time they *do* start coming out, the term will have lost its literal meaning

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

need to play it to be sure but looks like no

 

[Gaelyon]

Most RPG/JPRG video games are not Roleplaying games. The term RPG has been reduced to some technical features (leveling, XP, skills points, equipment etc.) and a story base campaign, but it's not roleplaying.

A roleplaying game allow the player to make choices, altering the story in meaningful ways. Not just some response choices but real decisions, that affect the story and ending, at the very last. Since video games have limitations there's always a limit to the player choices (unlike pen&paper RPG), but to be a roleplaying game the player need to choose how his character will react/act toward events/encounter and what ideals he will try to be true.

For instance, Detroit : Become Human is a roleplaying video game. You have lots of choices, each character can die/have multiple story paths and you can choose how the story evolve. No leveling, no HP, no classes, no XP.

Obviously FFVI is an action RPG, but not a roleplaying game as the story is linear. And it's not a critique. Also it's not easy to cut clear many RPG with some choices.

 

[L*][*N*K]

For some odd reason, there is a common belief that a Role-Playing game needs to have a turn-based combat system, that belief is wrong and the problem is the term "Role-Playing" its self which makes no sense, every game is role-playing, in Doom you role-play as The Slayer, in GTA you Role-Play as a criminal, in God of War you role-play as a dude who shouts a lot...etc

my point is, FF16 is a role-playing game with a focused on combat.

 

[Fuz]

I'd say no, but we didn't see the game yet.

 

[skyfall]

No it's not, thank god

 

[Fuz]

For some odd reason, there is a common belief that a Role-Playing game needs to have a turn-based combat system, that belief is wrong and the problem is the term "Role-Playing" its self which makes no sense, every game is role-playing, in Doom you role-play as The Slayer, in GTA you Role-Play as a criminal, in God of War you role-play as a dude who shouts a lot...etc

my point is, FF16 is a role-playing game with a focused on combat.

Silly take. The term "role playing" has a precise meaning and comes from P&P games such as D&D.

 

[Fuz]

The difference is region where it's being made.

No.

 

[poodaddy]

I would argue that very few FF's, and indeed very few JRPG's in general, are actually role playing games. Shin Megami Tensei is one of the exceptions where it truly feels like you're in control of a narrative direction, but FF is pretty much always a linear, controlled experience with very little room for deviation. Most FF's are damn good games, but I can't see how they're role playing games at all beyond you naming your character poop butt in the beginning, and hell they even removed that.

 

[Braag]

I think so yeah. Any game that mainly focuses on the story and characters first and foremost but also on gear and stats and lets the player somewhat spec his character to a certain play style can be called a RPG.
To some people RPG means you having to spend 90% of the game in menus min maxing stats or every decisions you make must have cataclysmic affect on the story. But I think games have changed from only those type of games being RPGs.

 

[GenericUser]

I haven't played it yet, only seen the trailers. But I think the game has more aspects to it then just the action combat. So if that is the case, I would probably think it's going to be more like a jrpg. But I'm fine with either options to be honest though. As long as it's fun to play, has a interesting story and lots of things to discover and explore.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Spectacle Fighter with RPG elements.

RPG is a rather broad term and does not do enough to describe most games these days.

ARPG would be more apt.

 

[Kev Kev]

Maybe we just need to define RPG first...

Does "playing a role" mean you have total agency and can shape the role's story at every turn? Or does it simply mean you are playing the role of a predefined, linear story, which you have no agency over?

I'd say FF16 is the latter, and so are most RPG's.

RPG's that give the player more agency include The Elder Scrolls, Fallout and Mass Effect (to name a few), but even those games only give limited control over the story. In the end, you still wind up with mostly the same results. At best, you could use your imagination to play a role in a game like Skyrim. For instance, I could choose to be a hunter/thief that doesn't use magic or potions, lives in the wild, only hunts for food and steals from the cities at night. That's much more of the former defined RPG, and I'm not sure how much more one could "role play" in other games, but I'm sure there are other good examples out there.

FF seems to be more that you are playing a predefined, linear role, but still is in every sense of the phrase a role playing game. It does make it much less of a "role playing" game in my opinion though, since I lean toward the former definition of what an RPG is.

 

[lyan]

Because RPG describes a means of play that is very specific, and uniquely fun because of the specificity. Calling a game an rpg just because it borrows elements from rpgs (without using them to effect roleplaying) just confuses at best, and diminishes the importance of roleplaying within its own genre.

We are way past that point already.

 

[Markio128]

I don’t recall playing many, if any, JRPGs where dialogue choices affected the outcome of the game. I do recall playing many JRPGs where the combat was action focused, such as Tales and even Atelier.

I’m not sure why this has suddenly become a problem with FF16, other than the fact that it is temporarily a platform exclusive.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Yes, didn’t read OP

 

[kicker]

I think the real question here is whether you have a beef with the term JRPG.

I don't think I do. I'll play whatever you put in front of me as long as it's fun or interesting in some way.
Thing is, genre names have always been stupid and/or loose. arpg, beat-em-up, doom-like, souls-like, stylish action, whatever.
But something as straightforward and meaningful as 'Roleplaying games are games where you can roleplay through game mechanics designed around roleplaying' should not be so hard to maintain

 

[Three]

We are way past that point already.

I'd argue that we were never there to begin with. People just assumed that player story choices meant role-playing. A role playing game doesn't have that requirement.

 

[kicker]

We are way past that point already.

And you want to keep going further by lrtting gamds like FF16 pass until 'RPG' becomes a marketing buzzword?

 

[Three]

I don't think I do. I'll play whatever you put in front of me as long as it's fun or interesting in some way.
Thing is, genre names have always been stupid and/or loose. arpg, beat-em-up, doom-like, souls-like, stylish action, whatever.
But something as straightforward and meaningful as 'Roleplaying games are games where you can roleplay through game mechanics designed around roleplaying' should not be so hard to maintain

What is your definition of role-playing?

 

[kicker]

What is your definition of role-playing?

Read the op

 

[GenericUser]

A genre name is meant to give the player an idea what to expect from the game. A genre is not meant to indicate whether a game is good or bad.

 

[kicker]

JRPGs have never really been about choice and dialogue. They are just story driven games where you play the role of the lead. I haven't played FFXVI yet, but from what I can tell, it is a JRPG that is action heavy. Ask again in July when people have played enough of it to have an opinion based on actual experience.

FF is jrpg.

I would argue that very few FF's, and indeed very few JRPG's in general, are actually role playing games. Shin Megami Tensei is one of the exceptions where it truly feels like you're in control of a narrative direction, but FF is pretty much always a linear, controlled experience with very little room for deviation. Most FF's are damn good games, but I can't see how they're role playing games at all beyond you naming your character poop butt in the beginning, and hell they even removed that.

Yes, exactly. People don't expect jrpgs to have actual roleplaying. That is why there is that 'j' there. It's to denote that they a subset or different take on rpgs (like arpg)
No-one includes korean rpgs as part of it, and yet they aren't "western rpgs" either. As much as people would like to believe it's just a regional description, we all know in our hearts that certain gameplay mechanics and story delivery style come to mimd when 'jrpg' is mentioned. And none of that includes roleplaying.
That's why people call Elden ring an action rpg and Yakuza a jrpg.

I'm starting to think this is pointless. Some people are bent on the genre not being specific or having any meaning beyond some particular elements.

 

[64bitmodels]

how is ffxvi not an rpg but elden ring is

 

[Three]

Read the op

Ive read your OP. I want you to give a clear definition of roleplaying.

What you have given is this

I believe RPGs need to allow the expression of choice and consequence through Narrative, Personality, and Combat. All the specific elements of rpgs (stats cutting across combat and dialogue, dialogue options, armor and weapon classes, character creation, narrative choices, experience points, etc) are there to effect roleplaying (through choice and consequenc).

Which seems to just describe a very specific game and not a definition for "role playing". A lot of old RPGs don't have dialogue options for example. Nor does the narrative change in them based on any choices. I can list some fan favourite JRPGs of the past that don't have a couple of these things but were considered JRPGs. What's your beef with the latest FF in particular?

 

[samoilaaa]

in my personal opinion an rpg is a game where i can make my own character ( or characters if it has party option ) , i can make different builds , i can enhance my skills by using them ( like in olbivion ) or just by adding points when leveling

but the most important feature for me is choice and consequence , thats what roleplaying means , i make choices and the story/world changes acording to those choices , its not like in a action game where you are given a character and play that character through the story that the devs want you to

choice and consequence is a feature that mostly wprgs have , not jrpgs

so is ff16 an rpg ? well yes its an jrpg , it just doesnt have the depth of an wrpg

 

[Dis]

Matt Walsh: What is an RPG

 

[adamsapple]

From all we've seen, it looks like an Action RPG (ARPG) instead of a traditional one people normally associate as a JRPG.

 

[RCU005]

I say: Who cares?
Is it a game you like? Play it!
Is it not? Don’t play it!

Why is it matter if the game is one genre? Or that it switched genre? It still has many elements that makes it recognizable as a Final Fantasy game, and it’s still looks great!

Why get so worked up over the little details?

 

[Captain Toad]

Jrpg= Japanese RPG. It involves your average RPG elements.
Wrpg is Western RPG. Same as jrpg.

The difference is region where it's being made.

Wrong.

JRPG is a GENRE. A genre is not defined by where a game is made.

The term was meant to describe a type of role-playing game made popular by Japanese games such as Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

The genre names are unfortunately confusing, but they are still the terms adopted for different genres, no different than platformers or fighting games.

 

[Rickyiez]

It's SekisoulsborneFantasy genre.

 

[feynoob]

The term came from to describe a type of RPG made popular by Japanese games such as Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

That is why it's called JRPG.

Same as how Elder scrolls and Witcher 3 are WRPG because they are popular in the west.

 

[64bitmodels]

i think the fact that this thread exists and the fact that so many people are arguing over the definition is a testament to how broad and unique the RPG genre of video games can be, to the point there's more subgenres in it than any other game genre. It's easy to see why it's so many people's favorite type of video game