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Is Metroid Prime:Echoes suffering from not enough hype?
- Thread starter Li Mu Bai
- Start date
clipunderground
Member
I'm pretty damn hyped for it. Metroid Prime is my favorite game this gen and one of my top five games of all time. Even if the sequel had zero enhancements and was just a continuation, I'd still be hyped beyond belief! 
Metroid Prime 2 looks like one of those games that will be swallowed into near obscurity by GTA SAn Andreas, Halo 2, MGS3 and maybe even RE4. I know I'm not hyped, I bought MP1 and liked it but it did not leave me wanting to play more of it or even a sequel, so Echoes goes into the category of games I will pick up at $20 or less.
clipunderground
Member
Anyone have any up to date sales numbers on the first Metroid Prime? I'm just a bit curious....
I thought remember it doing pretty damn good. I think the sequel will do at least as well.
I thought remember it doing pretty damn good. I think the sequel will do at least as well.
MP2 is too much too soon. That will be a problem. One of the things that worked in MP's favor was that it was the first console MP is about a decade. That span of time has its own built in hype generation. MP2 is coming after 3 Metroids in two years. I'm sure that has some people being worn out.
I also think that Metroid style exploration is seeing a decline in opinion. It was a big complaint for MP and MP2's competition this holiday is going to lean heavily towards action gameplay. I love exploration games, but I feel like a minority amongst a consumer base that just rather be dropped in the middle of some heavy action.
Another thing that Metroid is going have to overcome is the furturistic bounty hunter design. I don't think that excites people as much military/squad design based design seems to do these days.
These are the kinds of things that I think are stiffling any huge amount of hype. Factor in people being turned off the first one for various reasons and it seems rather predicatable that the game is not likely to reach the sales of the previous game.
I also think that Metroid style exploration is seeing a decline in opinion. It was a big complaint for MP and MP2's competition this holiday is going to lean heavily towards action gameplay. I love exploration games, but I feel like a minority amongst a consumer base that just rather be dropped in the middle of some heavy action.
Another thing that Metroid is going have to overcome is the furturistic bounty hunter design. I don't think that excites people as much military/squad design based design seems to do these days.
These are the kinds of things that I think are stiffling any huge amount of hype. Factor in people being turned off the first one for various reasons and it seems rather predicatable that the game is not likely to reach the sales of the previous game.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
clipunderground said:
Up to March 2004:
Metroid Prime
Nov-02
US 1,114,262
Japan 78,021
I really dont think MP2 will see similar numbers to the original. I expect it to sell less. Too many other big name games coming out this fall, and Im of the opinion that the original MP sold mainly because of the hype. The whole adventure aspect is not too popular amongst the main stream.
As for my hype about this game- I'm pretty damn excited. I just dont get why some screenshots show a visor HUD similar to the one in the original, while others show a completely new one.
Woohoo! An excuse to make another game list.
Metroid Prime was the complete single-player package. I honestly don't think it left a lot of room for improvement. That may be a reason why I'm(and other fans are) not as hyped for the follow-up. I'll be picking it up for sure, but maybe not upon release.
Whereas Halo, for me, was disappointing in many ways but showed a lot of potential for a sequel. Bungie has more to prove than Retro as far as the single player experience goes. And with Microsoft not forcing this one out the door, it should deliver that game Bungie promised with the original.
Other games rank higher on my list than those two, however. Metal Gear Solid 3 is finally giving fans the jungle environments and survival gameplay they've wanted since the PSX title. Resident Evil 4 is a true evolution of that series and has more graphical punch than any other title I can think of. And GTA: San Andreas has sold me on the epic scale and "Black Ceasar" storyline.
Metroid Prime was the complete single-player package. I honestly don't think it left a lot of room for improvement. That may be a reason why I'm(and other fans are) not as hyped for the follow-up. I'll be picking it up for sure, but maybe not upon release.
Whereas Halo, for me, was disappointing in many ways but showed a lot of potential for a sequel. Bungie has more to prove than Retro as far as the single player experience goes. And with Microsoft not forcing this one out the door, it should deliver that game Bungie promised with the original.
Other games rank higher on my list than those two, however. Metal Gear Solid 3 is finally giving fans the jungle environments and survival gameplay they've wanted since the PSX title. Resident Evil 4 is a true evolution of that series and has more graphical punch than any other title I can think of. And GTA: San Andreas has sold me on the epic scale and "Black Ceasar" storyline.
siamesedreamer
Banned
I'm pretty pumped up about it. I could care less if its just more of the same. MP was absolutely fantastic. A masterpiece IMO. Gaming doesn't get any better than that.
The only problem I have with MP2 is that they are releasing it one week after the GOTY. That's going to cause quite a dilemma in my house.
The only problem I have with MP2 is that they are releasing it one week after the GOTY. That's going to cause quite a dilemma in my house.
Kobun Heat
Member
That's not really how it goes though. MP coming out after a near-total Metroid blackout for ten years wasn't great from a marketing standpoint. What Nintendo's done is turn Metroid into a franchise with brand awareness. MP2 is going to benefit from that, not be hurt by it.ge-man said:
They will probably sell a million of them. Whether they sell more than its predecessor will probably all revolve around the quality of and the marketing of the deathmatch mode.
I dunno if people are like me or not but my problem with MP2 and VJ2 and such is that, if a equael comes out right away after the first game, I just find myself not caring about it. It just doesn't interst me because it isn't new and I have gone long enough without it to be craving it. I would compare it to food...mmm... food. Say you have an amazing dinner one night and just completely stuff yourself. No matter how good the food was, you don't want that exact same dinner the next night, and probably don't want it for the rest of the week either. As time goes by though, you eventually start to miss not having it and you need another session of that same dinner. That is the time to have it again. Any sooner and the event is wasted.
In fact, I think MP is the best game of this gen. Its just then... since MP2 is coming so soon after MP1, I just can't be hyped. I mean I'll buy the game all the same, but I just can't bring myself to care. The same goes for Viewtiful Joe.
In fact, I think MP is the best game of this gen. Its just then... since MP2 is coming so soon after MP1, I just can't be hyped. I mean I'll buy the game all the same, but I just can't bring myself to care. The same goes for Viewtiful Joe.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Well, I dont see a huge amount of hype for Jak, Ratchet, and Sly either.
Dr.Guru of Peru said:
Well, there wasn't much hype for the previous titles either...but they'll likely sell decently enough. I mean, if they can pump them out in such a short period of time (not including Sly here), surely the budgets are not too terribly high. I mean, they are all based on "currently existing technology" and employ old design elements.
Kobun Heat said:
I wasn't trying to say that it's an acceptable marketing tool, I'm just saying that MP kinda benefitted from players who were very hungry to play another outing in Samus' shoes. It's nice that the awareness is there now, but Nintendo and Retro shouldn't shoot their whole load this generation. IMO one console Metroid and two GB games is enough for now.
I dunno what to make of it. I had a lot of fun with Metroid Prime, but when I was finished I still kind of felt as though I really didn't want to play a "new" version unless it was wildly different. MP2 still just sounds like "more guns, more visors, more scanning". It reminds me of the Vice City hype, where everybody seemed to think that some motorcycles and helicopters were really going to totally change things up.....but it just wound up being the same thing with some extra features.
I'll wait and see what everyone's impressions of it are, but right now I don't see any big reasons to get super-hyped about it....particularly when there are so many other big titles in the Christmas pipeline. If the platforming is emphasized nicely and there's less backtracking/pointless collecting, then I'll play it sooner or later.
Oh, and the Soul Reaver games had a light/dark world component too
I'll wait and see what everyone's impressions of it are, but right now I don't see any big reasons to get super-hyped about it....particularly when there are so many other big titles in the Christmas pipeline. If the platforming is emphasized nicely and there's less backtracking/pointless collecting, then I'll play it sooner or later.
Oh, and the Soul Reaver games had a light/dark world component too
Alcibiades
Member
the Sony platformers (sly, ratchet, jak) are gonna be a total of 8 by this fall, so I think 4 Metroid titles isn't all that bad considering they've been spread out over time and platform...
What Nintendo needs to do is spend some (like 3x what they did last time) money on marketing this (hopefully with a commercial like the Japanese MP1 one), and to not stop running ads once the game is released, and maybe making ads with quotes of how good a game it is, and definitely releasing a "special edition" like Madden 04 and Halo 2 to get pre-order numbers up and maybe give away a demo with a pre-order...
stuff like that would help...
What Nintendo needs to do is spend some (like 3x what they did last time) money on marketing this (hopefully with a commercial like the Japanese MP1 one), and to not stop running ads once the game is released, and maybe making ads with quotes of how good a game it is, and definitely releasing a "special edition" like Madden 04 and Halo 2 to get pre-order numbers up and maybe give away a demo with a pre-order...
stuff like that would help...
I find that I'm not horribly hyped about many titles this fall...not the fault of any game, I'm just incredibly poor. Plus, I think I'll be picking up a DS, so chances are I'll be just getting Paper Mario 2 and Prime: Echoes.
I'm hyped about the title, despite not even bothering to finish Metroid Prime. I got to the titular final boss, and just stopped. It wasn't an interesting enough boss fight for me to finish. I loved the rest of it, and will pick up the sequel, but I can't say I have a huge amount of hype for the title. In a lot of ways, I think many titles are suffering from this due to E3. The emphasis, for Sony and Nintendo, on their handheld systems has really sent many high profile titles (Jak, Ratchet, Sly, Metroid, etc.) to the back burner. I think, though, that they will put a lot of muscle behind their November lineup. I mean, if they launch the DS, Prime: Echoes and RE4 in the month of November, that's a huge month for Nintendo. Plus, they may even be looking to launch Metroid Prime: Hunters and Echoes at the same time, which would provide some cross promotion. Kill two birds with one stone, and market both of them together.
It's true; in many ways, Nintendo has been able to create a brand with Metroid, something it wasn't two years ago. Now, there's been two high-selling GBA Titles (Anyone got NPD numbers for those so far?), a million seller GameCube title, and a much larger fan base for the titles. It's the same reason now is the perfect time to release Donkey Konga. The release of Donkey Kong Country has now revived the franchise, and remains an extremely high selling GBA Title. While it may seem illogical, Nintendo seems to be using its GBA lineup to fuel future GCN sales, by releasing new and ported titles of franchises to bring them back to the forefront.
This fall, they should put marketing effort behind anything and everything. They'll have Pokemon to fuel GBA sales, so Freeboy commercials should be sufficient. They have the DS to market, and a system launch should be fairly easy to promote with a Mario title, a Metroid Title and whatever third party software it launches with. They have the GameCube to market...Offer up Wind Waker. It's their most high profile title not yet Player's Choice, had its first Christmas...give it out with the GameCube. Other than that, focus on PM2/MP2:E/RE4 for major marketing, minor marketing on Star Fox and Baten Kaitos, along with GBA titles like DKC2.
I'm fairly hyped for MP2, I really am, but I'm too poor to be too excited.
I'm hyped about the title, despite not even bothering to finish Metroid Prime. I got to the titular final boss, and just stopped. It wasn't an interesting enough boss fight for me to finish. I loved the rest of it, and will pick up the sequel, but I can't say I have a huge amount of hype for the title. In a lot of ways, I think many titles are suffering from this due to E3. The emphasis, for Sony and Nintendo, on their handheld systems has really sent many high profile titles (Jak, Ratchet, Sly, Metroid, etc.) to the back burner. I think, though, that they will put a lot of muscle behind their November lineup. I mean, if they launch the DS, Prime: Echoes and RE4 in the month of November, that's a huge month for Nintendo. Plus, they may even be looking to launch Metroid Prime: Hunters and Echoes at the same time, which would provide some cross promotion. Kill two birds with one stone, and market both of them together.
It's true; in many ways, Nintendo has been able to create a brand with Metroid, something it wasn't two years ago. Now, there's been two high-selling GBA Titles (Anyone got NPD numbers for those so far?), a million seller GameCube title, and a much larger fan base for the titles. It's the same reason now is the perfect time to release Donkey Konga. The release of Donkey Kong Country has now revived the franchise, and remains an extremely high selling GBA Title. While it may seem illogical, Nintendo seems to be using its GBA lineup to fuel future GCN sales, by releasing new and ported titles of franchises to bring them back to the forefront.
This fall, they should put marketing effort behind anything and everything. They'll have Pokemon to fuel GBA sales, so Freeboy commercials should be sufficient. They have the DS to market, and a system launch should be fairly easy to promote with a Mario title, a Metroid Title and whatever third party software it launches with. They have the GameCube to market...Offer up Wind Waker. It's their most high profile title not yet Player's Choice, had its first Christmas...give it out with the GameCube. Other than that, focus on PM2/MP2:E/RE4 for major marketing, minor marketing on Star Fox and Baten Kaitos, along with GBA titles like DKC2.
I'm fairly hyped for MP2, I really am, but I'm too poor to be too excited.
Alcibiades
Member
border said:
funny cause when I would ask people that had played PS2 and Vice City about it being similar to GTA3 they always said the new one was better cause of the motorcycles...
I didn't get what the big deal was at first, but then that seemed to be about the response I'd get in a comparison of the two games...
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I also think it looks like MP 1.5. I'd be more excited if they didnt base enemies (at least the halfway challenging ones) on humanoids again, and if you didn't have to charge up your weapon for every single beam. I'll probably get it, but certainly not when it comes out.
I'm much more excited about Paper Mario 2, that looks great.
I'm much more excited about Paper Mario 2, that looks great.
MP is a love/hate game for me. While I loved the atmosphere and the fact I was finally playing a Metroid game again, I hated the scanning and the entire control system. The only reason I played through it is I'm a huge Metroid fanboy. I don't even know if I'll get part 2. There is wayyyy to much other stuff to buy this summer/fall. Possibly a purchase for next year though.
Razoric said:
I still can't understand why everyone hates the scanning. It's like they hate it so much that it compells them to scan many things that they do not need to. Items that require a scan are MARKED and generally quite obvious. Scanning was more of a bonus. If you read everything, you discovered a lot of additional history about the game world. However, it was mostly unnecessary.
Alcibiades
Member
dark10x said:So "Sony Platformer" is actually a series now?
well the marketing and hype and release date for all the them seem to be similar (despite gameplay differences), and they are all platformers, I'm just saying people haven't gotten tired of those...
Alcibiades
Member
dark10x said:
I almost never remark on the scanning, but yeah I definitely agree, it's like OBVIOUS they pretty much were giving it away, other than that it was up to you...
just cause you can scan doesn't mean you have too...
I think the people that complain about this probably haven't spent enough time with the game, cause "all the scanning" was pretty much quick anyway...
like if I just pick up the game I might scan a thing or two to get some bearing, but it's not like you have to be constantly doing it...
I remember trying to scan a lot of stuff (when I remembered it counted) just for the percentage thing, and even that didn't seem overbearing at all, I can imagine if I left everything alone...
GTA3 was the better game because it had a better city map. I suspect that the world design in Metroid Echoes is what will make it better or worse than Prime, not all this extra crap. The frequent visor/gun switching stuff seemed kinda gimmicky in the Prime, and I'm a tiny bit annoyed that they're going to be pushing it further.efralope said:
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Dice said:
But its got more elements/upgrades and I believe it makes it more than a .5 release. That said.. we can always argue that Halo 2 is like Halo 1.5. and that Zero Mission is Fusion .5. A lot of games these days feel like this, especially the 4,5,6 sets in a series (see fighter/shooters/driving/skateboarding). I am kind of sick of sequels.. at my age, you want fresh gameplay that is engaging at the very least - I need story nowadays more than flashy repetitive samey gameplay. IMO, you play MP2 for the story and the immersive experience.
border said:
I kinda feel the same way too. I don't want a Metroid Prime with the same gameplay structure, same gameplay mechanics, same style, same abilites. I've read some impressions of the game, but I still don't see what makes it so different from the first one, what makes it feel "fresh". A feature like "improved AI" means shit to me, same thing with "improved environments". Dark/light worlds, yes, but how different will it feel? What will change with Dark/light world? Enlighten me.
One could argue that a Metroid game has to follow a certain layout and gameplay style, but I feel that Metroid Fusion, for example, added some nice changes while still being a Metroid game. Perhaps mostly in atmosphere and style, but still...it had a fresh feeling to it. The biggest thing that made Metroid Prime feel different and fresh IMO was the shift to 3D. It will be harder to impress the second time around.
Alcibiades
Member
border said:
I haven't played throughly either game so I wouldn't know, but that's what I keep hearing about, the motorcycles...
Among casual gamers I bet the motorcycle thing was more of a selling point than even the soundtrack...
Alcibiades
Member
Razoric said:
that's the thing, you can take the game slow and seriously (like me) and the scanning will be as required as when you are trying to finish it quick (unless you've played it/ are using a guide)...
but if it's your first time, it's totally up to user how much they want to complete of the scanning...
dark10x said:
Curiosity. Even though it is a bonus, it feels more complete to scan everything you see. Just like finding all the secrets in Castlevania games. You just HAVE to hit the walls, in case one of them crumbles. Even though it doesn't even look like it will, you have to try.
And in Metroid Prime, finding things to scan isn't even hard. My index finger started to hurt from all the scanning though, pressing those L/R buttons frequently isn't the most comfortable thing to do.
Razoric said:
Yeah, but there is a difference between scanning important or interesting items (all of which were highlighted) and scanning EVERYTHING. I mean, scanning plants and rocks can be interesting...but has virtually NO bearing on the overall quality of the experience. If you walk into a room of terminals, only important information will be highlighted. The rest is there and can be scanned if you are interested, but has little to do with the actual game experience. Are you suggesting that it is BAD that they included extra material for those interested enough to read it?
Kiriku said:Curiosity. Even though it is a bonus, it feels more complete to scan everything you see. Just like finding all the secrets in Castlevania games. You just HAVE to hit the walls, in case one of them crumbles. Even though it doesn't even look like it will, you have to try.
And in Metroid Prime, finding things to scan isn't even hard. My index finger started to hurt from all the scanning though, pressing those L/R buttons frequently isn't the most comfortable thing to do.
I can understand this, but that is the player's fault.
Still, my left index finger did indeed begin to hurt after playing Prime for a straight week. Heck, my entire WRIST was sore from that.
I enjoyed scanning a good portion of the objects though.
Alcibiades
Member
Kiriku said:Curiosity. Even though it is a bonus, it feels more complete to scan everything you see. Just like finding all the secrets in Castlevania games. You just HAVE to hit the walls, in case one of them crumbles. Even though it doesn't even look like it will, you have to try.
And in Metroid Prime, finding things to scan isn't even hard. My index finger started to hurt from all the scanning though, pressing those L/R buttons frequently isn't the most comfortable thing to do.
yeah, but people aren't complaining about "having to find all the secrets in Castlevania" or "having to level up all the time in an RPG" (which can keep on going and going depending on how easy you want to beat bosses)...
People just feel obligated to scan because it's in there. I certainly do. When you get stuck in a certain section, you end up wondering if it's because you didn't read the right thing. So to make the puzzles and waypoints easier (or at least make yourself more confident), you end up reading a lot of superfluous stuff.
My problem was more that 80% of the crap you scanned wasn't all that interesting or illuminating. It just seemed like stuff thrown in for the sake of "adding content".
My problem was more that 80% of the crap you scanned wasn't all that interesting or illuminating. It just seemed like stuff thrown in for the sake of "adding content".
I tend not to believe any FPS that claims to have "amazing new AI". Every game since Quake 2 has claimed it, and out of the hundreds released there's probably been about 5 that actually had interesting, impressive AI. If it's actually there then that's fabulous, but don't expect me to get "hyped" over a bullet-point that's been on every developer's hyperbolic Feature List since 1998.
efralope said:
Those little orange icons were all over the game, sometimes you did have to scan, and almost the entire story is told through scanning... eventhough you didn't technically have to do it, most people were ment to do it. The developers didn't throw that in there for a neat/cool option. And like someone said before, sometimes there was so much scanning my finger started hurting after awhile. This "feature" just was not fun to me and I really don't see why they added it.
How can it be suffering from lack of hype when the game is still around 4 months away? I think that its sales will probably be pretty strong, as long as the marketing is done well. If they somehow tie the RE4 and MP2 marketing campaigns together, they could both do really well.
I do understand why the hardcore types aren't going crazy over it. From what we've seen, the game looks just like the first, and that isn't good enough for a lot of enthusiasts. So, I guess that it is suffering from lack of hype, because we still don't know much about it, but it's only suffering with the type of people that know about games months or years before their release.
I do understand why the hardcore types aren't going crazy over it. From what we've seen, the game looks just like the first, and that isn't good enough for a lot of enthusiasts. So, I guess that it is suffering from lack of hype, because we still don't know much about it, but it's only suffering with the type of people that know about games months or years before their release.
The first Metroid Prime had to deal wth alot skepticism right up until launch. It wasnt until e3 where the game got noticed and even then people werent fully convinced of how good it really was. It got accolades from the critics and hardcore community just before release which elevated its status but it was idfferent with casuals of course where the marketing of the game failed or was too little. MP2 on the other hand is known to be good and has multiplayer which was clearly put in to add more sales to the game by Nintendo who have several successful mutliplayer games. I dont see why anyone should expect low sales of Metroid Prime 2.
MP2 will easily outsell MP1.
MP2 will easily outsell MP1.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Docpan said:
Winner of the hard pressed troll award. You come into a thread about MP2.. which undeniably contains stacks of upgrades from the 1st game (multi, screw attack.. more explorative fun) and you say this?
Dual weilding, XBOX LIVE, new weapons, enemies, the list goes on. ?
teh INNOVATE. HALO 2.
If this was on a PC.. it would not get this much love. XBOX Live < PC online. Everything else is laughable.
Alcibiades
Member
border said:
in all honesty, I kinda know how you feel, sometimes in RPG towns it takes forever cause I want to talk to everybody and search every corner for open doors, etc...
a couple of times when playing Crystal Chronicles my buddies would got after me for wanting to talk to everyone until everything they said was cleared (cause they said like 2-3 different things)...
in Metroid Prime I didn't even know how much scanning was important until pretty into the game (I didn't even know you could scan those liquididy Chozo Story things), but I have to admit I did get a bit paranoid around control stations and checked those out (leaving enemies alone unless I remembered they counted for percentage)...
it's all a matter of how one plays the game though, some people may feel "obligated" to do things, while others may not...
TheGreenGiant
Banned
efralope said:
Efralope. Do you have a link to the JP commercial? I've don't think I've ever seen it (although I have seen the hilarious Japanese Super Metroid Ones).
okthnxbye
Alcibiades
Member
"... new weapons, enemies, the list goes on..."
lol
lol
Tritroid
Member
No title in the Metroid series has really ever seen much hype anyway. The only one that did was Metroid Prime simply because of the move into 3D, but even then the hype wasn't nearly as great as other franchises. (Zelda, GTA, FF, etc.)
So in the long run I really don't think Echoes will 'suffer' from lack of hype (that is if there isn't any generated within the next 4 months), since Metroid has never really relied on hype.
On a side note, I think including the multiplayer mode in Echoes is unnecessary. Metroid is meant to create an 'alone' atmosphere, where the player is dropped on an unknown planet with an arm blaster and nothing or no one else. Multiplayer just doesn't fit into this equation, even if it is only a battle royale. (Not to mention the multiplayer mode shown at E3 seemed very uninspired. )
So in the long run I really don't think Echoes will 'suffer' from lack of hype (that is if there isn't any generated within the next 4 months), since Metroid has never really relied on hype.
On a side note, I think including the multiplayer mode in Echoes is unnecessary. Metroid is meant to create an 'alone' atmosphere, where the player is dropped on an unknown planet with an arm blaster and nothing or no one else. Multiplayer just doesn't fit into this equation, even if it is only a battle royale. (Not to mention the multiplayer mode shown at E3 seemed very uninspired.
)Actually, to be fair, GTA-Vice City was really the first GTA to recieve a LOT of hype. GTA3 really didn't capture much attention until it was released. Good word of mouth and solid reveiws pretty much sold it. The series was known, but certainly not well known at that point. It was because of GTA3 that VC (and now SA) recieved so much hype.
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