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Jeff Henshaw Xbox 360 interview (this should be fun!!)
- Thread starter Kleegamefan
- Start date
Chiggs
Member
bill0527 said:
Seriously. Some of these people are utterly delusional (Xbox 360 zealots included, obviously). Of course, what else would you expect when reading a forum populated by some real - and this is being nice - "enthusiasts"? Their entire lives revolve around games, and therefore what they perceive to be their reality, they project on everyone else.
I actually get a good laugh just thinking of them foaming at the mouth while they type up their latest rant about how the difference between 1080p and 720p is going to be a major factor in the upcoming war between the Xbox 360 and PS3, or about how HDTV support doesn't even really matter. Okay, guys... sure thing.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
Isn't the point that Kutaragi wanted to make the PS3 "future-proof" or whatever? Same reason for the 1Gbit ethernet and next-gen disc format.
But we are talking about live video from a video game! Not of a dvd video.
For DVD video in the page you link to klee, they explain that DVDs have progressive data stored on them. When they are encoded they are flagged within the mpeg 2 file.
Difference here is that it's not going to have "extra" data as it's a feed and not a recording. It's not going to store extra progressive data because the game system bandwidth is always tight budget. So that way it basically guarantees that if there's a deinterlacing chip on ps3 or xbox 360 or algorithms for de-interlacing run from cpu, it won't be displaying them in 3:2 progressive pattern.
That way you're basically left with the TVs built in de-interlacer which i kept calling a doubler which i meant to say combiner. and as they state in the link YOU PROVIDED... There's almost no guaranteed good way of properly de-interlacing a live feed. (which is what's meant with concerts, home video and TV to DVD)
And Vince... we're not disputing the fact that there will be 1080p devices. We're saying that the method for which PS3 will use it's 1080p is a hack and will have nearly no devices that can actually USE it.
For DVD video in the page you link to klee, they explain that DVDs have progressive data stored on them. When they are encoded they are flagged within the mpeg 2 file.
Difference here is that it's not going to have "extra" data as it's a feed and not a recording. It's not going to store extra progressive data because the game system bandwidth is always tight budget. So that way it basically guarantees that if there's a deinterlacing chip on ps3 or xbox 360 or algorithms for de-interlacing run from cpu, it won't be displaying them in 3:2 progressive pattern.
That way you're basically left with the TVs built in de-interlacer which i kept calling a doubler which i meant to say combiner. and as they state in the link YOU PROVIDED... There's almost no guaranteed good way of properly de-interlacing a live feed. (which is what's meant with concerts, home video and TV to DVD)
And Vince... we're not disputing the fact that there will be 1080p devices. We're saying that the method for which PS3 will use it's 1080p is a hack and will have nearly no devices that can actually USE it.
DopeyFish said:
No details are out on how the PS3 will do 1080p. Just a statement from Sony that it will. Dual HDMI is supposedly there for dual displays, not dual channel combined HDMI or anything fancy.
The situation is confused by the lack of 1080p/60 standards that have been ratified.
Either Sony have 1080p/60, or they fuck off. Simple really. And anyway its largely pointless, as most people will use 710p or 1080i for the entire lifetime of PS3.
IMO, obviously.
sonycowboy
Member
mrklaw said:
Blu-Ray movies will be 1080p/24 or 1080p/30 and there will be TV sets that support that by the time the PS3 comes out. Finding a TV that will support 1080p/60 will probably be a bit harder.
I'd be happy to have the resolution of a 1080p/30 game over a 720p/60 game for ~most genres. Now racing and intense action games would be the exception, but RPG's, platformers, sports games, and adventure games simply don't move ~fast enough to really benefit from 60fps. However, having twice the resolution (or is it 4 times?) would seem to produce a better image overall.
In any case, developers will be able to make the choice on the PS3 as opposed to being locked into a specific resolution. Now there are problems with this, of course. The first being very few will have 1080p sets, the second being it might be extremely difficult to get games running at 1080p on the PS3, and the final being, when gamers choose which set to get they'll have to make the choice of "true" 1080i or 720p, with the other source being slightly compromised, whereas 360 gamers should have a clear cut choice (assuming the system is the only factor)
Your link doesn't work, Klee, unless that typo at the end was deliberateKleegamefan said:
The emphasis on 720p vs. 1080p comes from the interview itself. Mr. Henshaw of MS certainly seemed happy to be given the opportunity to downplay 1080p. Whether or not it will actually be a major factor in the 4-6 yr console cycle remains to be seen but it would appear that Henshaw is treating it as such, since he's trying to downplay it so early, making this a concern to more than just the "delusional" enthusiasts here at GAF that you seem so quick to sneer at.Chiggs said:
Beer Monkey
Member
Exactly. And I'd say they are going to have to fuck off.
Even if a 1080p/60 set with a 1080p/60 input exists by late 2006, it doesn't mean that the PS3 can support it. It almost certainly won't.
Resolution whoring is getting silly. If there is ever a 1080p/60 PS3 game, it's either going to be an upconvert from a lower resolution (look at the '1080i' GT4), or the framerate is going to suffer. A 1920x1080 frame buffer and fill rate isn't likely to keep up with 720p. Both MS and Sony should optimize their games for 720p (and hopefully some 1080i to boot). If the PS3 is really more powerful (and reasonable to program for), the PS3 games will have superior detail, effects, and framerate and the SonyBots will be able to brag in online flame wars.
sonycowboy
Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
The point is, there's absolutely no basis for your conclusion. We all know that fillrate and performance will be an issue. And there are people measuring the size of the HDMI connectors on the prototype PS3 to prove that they're only HDMI type A, and thus say that the PS3 cannot support 1080p.
However, it's purely speculation at this point. Sony claimed at E3 that the PS3 would be 1080p capable and with it packing a Blu-Ray player, that seems to make some sense. Absolutely nothing in the little information we've gotten regarding the RSX, PS3, or CELL specs would discount the capability of 1080p so you're conclusion of "It doesn't mean the PS3 can support it. It almost certainly won't." is certainly possible, it's also possible that the reverse could happen. We just don't know and declarations one way or the other are meaningless.
sonycowboy
Member
DCharlie said:
True enough. But that's neither here nor there. I don't think anyone honestly thinks that the 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p is going to be any serious competative force for this battle. Anyone who does is ignoring the splintered and f'ed up reality of consumer HDTV currently.
However, given that many on this forum will have HDTV's in the not too distant future, it's certainly a legitimate topic of conversation.
sonycowboy
Member
akascream said:
Well, there are LCD's that have 1080p resolution, but no CRT/DLP's/Plasma's that I know of except the recent DLP announced by Mitsubishi that claims to be 1080p, but people believe only accepts a 1080i input.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Correct me if I'm wrong but are you people saying that 1080p games in 30FPS are all of a sudden unacceptable?
Then again, I still think that a quality direct view TV gives the best picture quality, regardless of the resolution compromises. Also, some CRT PC monitors support very high resolutions, like 1600x1200, so it doesn't seem it's impossible.beermonkey@tehbias said:
Beer Monkey
Member
Having Blu-Ray movies makes a lot of sense for 1080p/24 and 1080p/30, but there's no reason for 1080p/60, which is what we are talking about right now.
It's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. I eat, sleep, and breathe home theater and display technology. There's nothing in the market driving 1080p/60, and there's just no good reason for Sony to support it in the PS3. The fact that current interconnects isn't the ultimate driving factor, but the market is.
Enjoy your 1080p/30 when you get it.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I agree that it's not ideal to have 30FPS games, but for some games it really doesn't matter much, and the resolution boost would matter more perhaps, like slow moving adventure games.
sonycowboy
Member
akascream said:
Does 60fps even matter for RPG's, or platforming games, or anything where visuals aren't flying or moving by at high speed (like racing or fast paced action games)? And I'm seriously asking here. I'm not so sure, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the matter.
In any case, developers will get to choose the resolution and the frame rate that best fits thier games. And I'd trust the top developers to make the right trade offs when necessary.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's gotta hurt that even the game from your aavatar runs at 30
DCharlie said:
480P is pretty much a stop gap. Everything is jumping to 720P and 1080i. I agree that 1080p is pretty much a pipe dream at the moment.
Regarding 1080p, here is a good article about it:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/reality.htm
1080P is coming and will be the standard eventually. But I don't foresee it happening for another 5-10 years. Maybe longer. Nothing will be a true standard unless you build support of it in a box under 500 dollars.
sonycowboy
Member
Mrbob said:
Excellent, excellent article even if it does completely destroy the 1080p reality.
hdtvexpert said:
This doesn't seem to be a valid reason for HD movies not being mastered at 1080p and set to a TV signal. If the TV can't handle it, it will still be able to output 1080i. I mean if you can watch a Blu-Ray movie on your 480p/540p/720p set, I don't see why you won't be able to watch it on your 1080i set.
Don't we want our HD movie format to be "future proofed" to quote our favorite SCEI executive?
It's pretty apparent that current sets aren't 1080p and this article is a warning to those folk who are interested in getting it. What's not quite so apparent is that 1080p won't be a reaility within the next 1-3 years thanks to the PS3 & Blu-Ray (and HD-DVD?)
Of course, knowing that it won't be a reality for 98%+ of consumers out there anyway.
DemonCleaner
Member
can anyone explain to me why 1080p/60 should be a display issue???
would that be bigger than the HDMI-bandwidth, or whats the problem?
would that be bigger than the HDMI-bandwidth, or whats the problem?
I fully support and drool for 1080p/24/30 for my bluray movies, knowing that they'll be there for a long time, and my display will eventually meet its demands.
But 1080p for a console IMO needs 60fps support. And for PS3, that means it needs displays supporting that in its lifetime. Early in its lifetime in fact, as that res would be most valued by early adopters/tech whores.
If 1080p/60 becomes a standard in 10 years, leave it for PS4.
But 1080p for a console IMO needs 60fps support. And for PS3, that means it needs displays supporting that in its lifetime. Early in its lifetime in fact, as that res would be most valued by early adopters/tech whores.
If 1080p/60 becomes a standard in 10 years, leave it for PS4.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
sangreal said:
If you look at the spec sheet in your link, you will see that the Sammy TXM2798 only *accepts* 1080i video from an outboard Add-on DTV receiver/decoder
You will also notice it only has 800 lines of horizontal resolution....that is the max the TV will output...
This, of course, is not enough to display 1080i, which is 1920 lines (of horizontal resolution) by 1080 lines (of vertical resolution)...
This is not an HDTV, it is just an "HD Monitor" that can accept a 1080i source (like, say an X360) and display it at regular SD res (like the TV you own right now)
Thanx anyway
bill0527 said:
Yeah, the Sammy TXM2798 will *accept* a 1080i signal but it will not display at that resolution.....480p only....sorry guys....
DopeyFish said:
Dopey, what I was originally disagreeing with you was the fact you were implying line doubling was the same as de-interlacing, which it is not....the deinterlacer in a 1080p TV can read the progressive cadence flag which is embedded in the metadata of a 1080i stream (up to this point it has been the MPEG2 stream but that will probably include a VC1 and AVC HP video stream as well when they arrive on the next gen optical formats)...from here, the de-interlacer reconstructs the original 1080p/24 film frame via 2:2 or 2:3 pulldown(either bob or wieve or a combo of both)......
The result is an uncompromised 1080p frame from a 1080i stream....there is no "extra stuff" missing or added when the process is working correctly, which is 99% of the time with my D-theater tapes...
I was not implying this will be the case with 1080p PS3 games since that is a different topic........however, DeanoC who post over at B3D and is working on Heavely Sword for PS3 did say this:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22971&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22971&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
So take that as you will...