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Just got my console (and I assume my account) banned from Live for playing Halo 4.
- Thread starter Skel1ingt0n
- Start date
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
He bought the game and received no receipt as they were going to charge him later.
He got banned because they thought he was a pirate. He makes this topic and posts a picture of his genuine copy with the DVD case open and his name with the date.
Apparently he was told all he had to do was show a receipt and it didn't matter if it matched the day he got banned. (Edit: Stinkles told him this not MS)
He showed them a receipt. No one's sure when, by who, or if it was edited but MS claims that the receipt wasn't valid. (No one knows why his receipt wasn't valid)
I've not intentionally obscured the store, no. But sometimes the photo will cut off part of the address at the top of the receipt, or something similar. I've never had a problem, so I can only assume only date and product are required, which makes sense to me. I don't see why the store would be needed.
Infinite Justice
Member
But yet he has revealed the store since he claims that he sent an unaltered receipt to Stinkles.
He tried to still protect them though by asking for assurance that MS wouldn't go after them before sending it.
if all of that is true i really think its the date that might have fucked him over, since it might have been dated some time after they detected/banned him.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Not just here, everywhere. It's been an unspoken agreement our entire life.
robotzombie
Member
Activate secret handshake!
I've been getting a few PM's from people asking for my help for when they've banned by Microsoft for various dubious reasons. I nor my contact can help you, overturning one of these things seems pretty much impossible.
For further clarification on the OP's case, I have learned that Microsoft suspect the date of the receipt to be altered. From this my guess would be the OP's receipt shows the date of Halo's launch, but they know he had it earlier than that, thus they believe the copy he was playing prior to that was a pirated copy, and he just went out on launch day to buy a new copy and use that receipt. They don't seem to have any of the details, they just see the black and white evidence and base their ban off that.
So when Microsoft are asking for an 'unaltered receipt' they're really asking for a receipt that shows the actual purchase date -- which doesn't exist.
For further clarification on the OP's case, I have learned that Microsoft suspect the date of the receipt to be altered. From this my guess would be the OP's receipt shows the date of Halo's launch, but they know he had it earlier than that, thus they believe the copy he was playing prior to that was a pirated copy, and he just went out on launch day to buy a new copy and use that receipt. They don't seem to have any of the details, they just see the black and white evidence and base their ban off that.
So when Microsoft are asking for an 'unaltered receipt' they're really asking for a receipt that shows the actual purchase date -- which doesn't exist.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
jetsetfluken
Member
Maybe even if someone at Microsoft did see this, I don't think the overall behavior and lines like "Fuck you, Microsoft", in the first sentence no less, will do any favors. But what happened has happened, the automatic flagging for possible or definitely) illegitimate or early sold copies has been in place for years now.
Losing an account and all achievements and purchase history is what happened here? Or just console banned? I understand things like this could happen by mistake and get punished for it, but losing all that achievement history would be terrible. Worse than losing some purchases or one console if years or work was put in. Fine, ban the console at worst...but losing all that achievement progress over years over one game bought early sounds extreme. I think what happened was just a console ban, though. Haven't read through most each page, excuse my French, garbage. But the thread sure likes popping to the top daily and amassing views and views, so I'm sure I'm getting a good "education"!
The thread creator did go into the game's matchmaking before the game was officially released with knowledge, correct? This is to assume the copy is actually legitimate. How do we know the store wasn't selling burned copies or bootleg copies or something? Anyway. The thread creator, let's say with legitimate game, probably knows he shouldn't have done it. But it's just confusing to me, because I heard about a lot of UK people in particular getting it days or weeks early and I don't think they're getting console banned...or anything. They may have just played the single player mode. Not entering matchmaking, which may set off the flag. Or is it just booting the game while connected?
I don't want to comment on this mess of a subject much. I'll leave these "politics" to others. I will just say that, looking at the thread creator's buying habits alone tells me maybe this is not life or death. I see a craving to fit in with a, how can I say, scene and areas of niche via abundant spending...while the objects are not very, how can I say, utilized. A lust for the shiny and new, but moderate at best desire once they aren't. So is this song and dance seeming obnoxious in that context? Perhaps...
Nonetheless, money has bought this one's way out of this situation via the purchase of another console and memberships and games, discounts aside. This thread perhaps lived on beyond expectation, for the thread creator also, and maybe this post-drama is being feigned. Apathy. Realizes the official investigation of the case has happened and is case closed, but continues for reasons out of boredom or vanity of one's own thread all about one person. Perhaps others running in circles realize the same thing, but they're just...bored and need a negative topic to fuel their interest.
Note: I used words like "maybe" and perhaps", so in no way are these claims. Just my educated guesses.
But enough of that.
Let's bring up another area where Microsoft's Xbox division punishes, and for right reason.
Achievement cheaters.
But there's one problem. They don't really act on reports and Gamerscore Correct very often.
So why doesn't that have an automatic flagging system just like this "early/possibly copy detector"? Why is it up to manual user reports, which aren't answered upon 80% of the time? It would be very simple to implement, automatically flagging accounts that have an unrealistic amount of achievements "unlocked" at once. They would be flagged for investigation automatically.
If you're going to reply with "who cares about achievements", then don't reply.
Losing an account and all achievements and purchase history is what happened here? Or just console banned? I understand things like this could happen by mistake and get punished for it, but losing all that achievement history would be terrible. Worse than losing some purchases or one console if years or work was put in. Fine, ban the console at worst...but losing all that achievement progress over years over one game bought early sounds extreme. I think what happened was just a console ban, though. Haven't read through most each page, excuse my French, garbage. But the thread sure likes popping to the top daily and amassing views and views, so I'm sure I'm getting a good "education"!
The thread creator did go into the game's matchmaking before the game was officially released with knowledge, correct? This is to assume the copy is actually legitimate. How do we know the store wasn't selling burned copies or bootleg copies or something? Anyway. The thread creator, let's say with legitimate game, probably knows he shouldn't have done it. But it's just confusing to me, because I heard about a lot of UK people in particular getting it days or weeks early and I don't think they're getting console banned...or anything. They may have just played the single player mode. Not entering matchmaking, which may set off the flag. Or is it just booting the game while connected?
I don't want to comment on this mess of a subject much. I'll leave these "politics" to others. I will just say that, looking at the thread creator's buying habits alone tells me maybe this is not life or death. I see a craving to fit in with a, how can I say, scene and areas of niche via abundant spending...while the objects are not very, how can I say, utilized. A lust for the shiny and new, but moderate at best desire once they aren't. So is this song and dance seeming obnoxious in that context? Perhaps...
Nonetheless, money has bought this one's way out of this situation via the purchase of another console and memberships and games, discounts aside. This thread perhaps lived on beyond expectation, for the thread creator also, and maybe this post-drama is being feigned. Apathy. Realizes the official investigation of the case has happened and is case closed, but continues for reasons out of boredom or vanity of one's own thread all about one person. Perhaps others running in circles realize the same thing, but they're just...bored and need a negative topic to fuel their interest.
Note: I used words like "maybe" and perhaps", so in no way are these claims. Just my educated guesses.
But enough of that.
Let's bring up another area where Microsoft's Xbox division punishes, and for right reason.
Achievement cheaters.
But there's one problem. They don't really act on reports and Gamerscore Correct very often.
So why doesn't that have an automatic flagging system just like this "early/possibly copy detector"? Why is it up to manual user reports, which aren't answered upon 80% of the time? It would be very simple to implement, automatically flagging accounts that have an unrealistic amount of achievements "unlocked" at once. They would be flagged for investigation automatically.
If you're going to reply with "who cares about achievements", then don't reply.
Infinite Justice
Member
sounds like it.
Asking for a receipt is absurd in the first place. I doubt I'm the only one that tosses most of mine shortly after opening the product.
As I said before, if MS is willing to take away so much money and time from the customer then they should have the decency to give banned people some phone time with a real person who has power to reverse it.
As I said before, if MS is willing to take away so much money and time from the customer then they should have the decency to give banned people some phone time with a real person who has power to reverse it.
Mackenzie 92
Member
Zoe
Member
What makes you think they don't?
It doesn't seem they do. The Enforcement team doesn't actually contact anyone. They pass a message on and some rep will tell you 'You broke this section of the ToS' -- and that's it.
Well I'm trying to stay fairly neutral here.... Trying. In actual fact this kind of anti-consumer behaviour boils my blood.... BUT. Asking for something that doesn't exist is kinda unreasonable.
That certainly is an explanation that makes a lot of sense.
I hesitate to add more speculation to this thread, but it does appear that the OP got himself (either knowingly or not) into a bit of an awkward situation. I imagine there had to be some sort of collusion with the shop he purchased the game from in order to come back and get a receipt on launch day, or have one fudged with the launch date in advance. Though, in my eyes, that still doesn't justify a ban in itself, it clearly makes it difficult to prove that the copy he originally played was not pirated.
blitzcloud
Banned
Let's recap.
Guy buys halo4 early
Gets banned for it
Posts about it on GAF. Mixed opinions
shows picture of halo4 copy as of 26/10
stinkles says he will help him
GAF believes on unban
Skelington gives picture with receipt to stinkles
--
--
--
End of November
His situation is not resolved
stinkles does not answer back
Buys new 360 on BF, sells old one.
Still banned but now he only cares about his gamertag
--
--
--
Nowadays
stinkles answers back with a vague implication that skelington is not clean (sorry, but that's my deduction from his wording)
Lexi helps out as well, and the reply is that skelington sent an edited picture and is uncooperative
All hope is lost.
Of course, in the course of everything there was a fight between users.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assumptions:
1. Microsoft bans without any thresold those who play early.
2. Skelington was banned for violating no terms of service, neither anything that would warrant a console ban.
3. Microsoft call skelington uncooperative for not ratting away the store.
All of the above is extremely abusive in case skelington told us the truth (and I can assume he did as this would warrant a ban in GAF, why making it for getting owned afterwards?) and anyone in favor of it should feel bad for what's to come later on.
In other words, the problem is not that he's not getting unbanned (well, that's the current problem). The real problem is that he got double banned for violating no terms of service.
Guy buys halo4 early
Gets banned for it
Posts about it on GAF. Mixed opinions
shows picture of halo4 copy as of 26/10
stinkles says he will help him
GAF believes on unban
Skelington gives picture with receipt to stinkles
--
--
--
End of November
His situation is not resolved
stinkles does not answer back
Buys new 360 on BF, sells old one.
Still banned but now he only cares about his gamertag
--
--
--
Nowadays
stinkles answers back with a vague implication that skelington is not clean (sorry, but that's my deduction from his wording)
Lexi helps out as well, and the reply is that skelington sent an edited picture and is uncooperative
All hope is lost.
Of course, in the course of everything there was a fight between users.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assumptions:
1. Microsoft bans without any thresold those who play early.
2. Skelington was banned for violating no terms of service, neither anything that would warrant a console ban.
3. Microsoft call skelington uncooperative for not ratting away the store.
All of the above is extremely abusive in case skelington told us the truth (and I can assume he did as this would warrant a ban in GAF, why making it for getting owned afterwards?) and anyone in favor of it should feel bad for what's to come later on.
In other words, the problem is not that he's not getting unbanned (well, that's the current problem). The real problem is that he got double banned for violating no terms of service.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
So the bottom line is that he's been banned for playing a pirated game that wasn't actually pirated. Thats shitty and I don't see how people can agree with it regardless of any wrongdoing on the part of the store.
Darkmakaimura
Member
The way I read it was that the dev (343i or Stinkles or whatever) supposedly altered the receipt before sending it to MS for some reason. Again, I might have read this wrong and I couldn't see why they would do that anyhow if they were trying to get him unbanned.
Infinite Justice
Member
That was the possible implication giving the change from unaltered to altered (assuming the OP was telling the truth) but that would make no sense for Stinkles to do such a thing imo.
Now its seemingly cleared up with the date being the likely culprit.
Expecting people to just keep receipts in case they get banned is the definition of unreasonable.
I agree with this, and in hindsight the OP really only made his situation worse by handing over the receipt with the erroneous date. Giving the implications of playing the game before the date he bought it, he is now not on the best grounds for an argument with MS. Perhaps he would have been better off saying he did not get a receipt (they're not legally required right?) or he trashed it, and it's up to MS to prove he was in the wrong. But then, does Joe Consumer really hold any sway when it comes to these things? MS can do whatever they want to people using their service, apparently.
Op needs to just take this to small calms court, MS can't use 100 lawyers to drown him in paper work. Just go In make your case about street dates not applying to customers and hope for the best.
Edit: I would also go back to the store and get a HAND WRITTEN receipt of the day he bought it. Hand written is legal and MS can't do shit about it.
Edit: I would also go back to the store and get a HAND WRITTEN receipt of the day he bought it. Hand written is legal and MS can't do shit about it.
Mackenzie 92
Member
But if the sale took place, it should exist. I know people don't agree with me on that, but that's just my way of thinking regarding this particular case.
Normally I'd agree with you, but in this specific case it doesn't seem unreasonable to me given all the facts.
blitzcloud
Banned
And if the sale exists prior to that date, the store gets fined and the worker fired.
Still, the ban should have never happened and I can't understand people are driving past that very basic point.
vikingvessel
Member
That would be your own self-serving definition that best suits your point at the moment. Based on the flawless history of disc manufacturing, a potential ban would be the only possible reason to ever hold on to a receipt, assuming you had one because you paid for the item prior to claiming it and removing it from a retail channel.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
That would require the OP to say where he bought it from which he is refusing to do.
ShinobiFist
Banned
He is not, he never block the info on where he purchase the game. He mentioned this already.
faceless007
Member
Might not be possible thanks to the binding arbitration agreement MS added to the Live TOS last year.
Oh yeah, fuck MS for that too.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
The TOS actually specifies either submit to arbitration or go to small claims court. So the OP can do either. But either way would probably require him to present his receipt, which apparently he doesn't want to do.
Littlegator
Banned
He showed his receipt to Microsoft already.
He can go to small-claims court, explain what happened, show the receipt, have the shop-owner testify, and win.
If he actually resorted to these measures, MS would probably just unban him in a settlement, though.
Been following this thread.
While I know it's not the same I've had 3 rrod, bricked console on update, disc scratching issue, disc tray eject, loss of 120gbHDD on return & issues with digital content transfer due to the illogical 1 content/account transfer 12 month policy.
After that I went jtag & couldn't be happier not having to be screwed over again & again(1 stock for xbla). Don't care for live/mp so that solved some problems. The only good experience I've had with MS is they replaced my hdd they lost and threw in forza yay:|.
It's the same kinda unjustified soulless nonsense I've read about other services like steam wherein they can pull the trigger and ruin your game experience which is supposed to be all about fun NOT heaps of frustration.
JTAG obviously wont fix your situation which leaves you in the dark/helpless hoping they do the right thing where time & time again they've proved to be inefficient/incompetent at resolving simple issues which deviate from their troubleshooting script.
People in this thread trying to split hairs over you breaking the TobbS (terms of biased bullshit service) and the result being just is disappointing but unfortunately unsurprising.
Best of luck with it
While I know it's not the same I've had 3 rrod, bricked console on update, disc scratching issue, disc tray eject, loss of 120gbHDD on return & issues with digital content transfer due to the illogical 1 content/account transfer 12 month policy.
After that I went jtag & couldn't be happier not having to be screwed over again & again(1 stock for xbla). Don't care for live/mp so that solved some problems. The only good experience I've had with MS is they replaced my hdd they lost and threw in forza yay:|.
It's the same kinda unjustified soulless nonsense I've read about other services like steam wherein they can pull the trigger and ruin your game experience which is supposed to be all about fun NOT heaps of frustration.
JTAG obviously wont fix your situation which leaves you in the dark/helpless hoping they do the right thing where time & time again they've proved to be inefficient/incompetent at resolving simple issues which deviate from their troubleshooting script.
People in this thread trying to split hairs over you breaking the TobbS (terms of biased bullshit service) and the result being just is disappointing but unfortunately unsurprising.
Best of luck with it
Of course the date on the receipt is altered. The OP said as much in the first place, that he bought the game early, and the store knew not to leave a paper trail, so they offered one of two choices, no receipt, or a receipt with an altered date. The OP chose to get a receipt with an altered date.
And for reference, here's what
http://kotaku.com/5352066/microsoft-starts-banning-odst-pirates-not-players
not Major Nelson said:
The OP has a legit copy of Halo 4. He showed a picture of it after the ban but before the supposed launch.
But I guess Microsoft's problem with the retailer has become the OP's problem with the retailer. Classy move Microsoft.
blitzcloud
Banned
Finally someone who links to the actual article.
Microsoft, who can't do better, ban everyone and blackmail LEGITIMATE users into ratting out the retailers. Why don't they actually find out themselves? If it's word of mouth that a mom&pop store is selling it early, they can easily bust them.
So yeah, nice move MS.
Microsoft, who can't do better, ban everyone and blackmail LEGITIMATE users into ratting out the retailers. Why don't they actually find out themselves? If it's word of mouth that a mom&pop store is selling it early, they can easily bust them.
So yeah, nice move MS.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Though that quotes not from Major Nelson aka Larry Hyrb.
I can see his history of his skel1ngt0n account. He owns about 75 games. Around 50 of those games have zero achievements, his gamer score is only 4000ish which seems low for how long he's been gaming and how many games he owns. Some of the games in the picture he posted such as portal 2, new Vegas, blood bowl, blops 2, shift, etc dont show up on his game history. Which means he took the packaging off but never booted them up, not even once. Odd no?
I've gotten a few games before release and always got a receipt and i always run the game to make sure it works before tossing the receipt. (I've seen improperly pressed discs before)
IMO considering how many games the OP owns but has never played I would say he's either an ocd collector or a pirate who got banned then ran out to buy a copy of halo 4 to save his account. Usually pirates will download a bunch of games, run them once to see if they work but never actually play them.
Not sure if anyone has brought this up(not going through the entire thread) but it's my 2cents. If the OP is innocent then the situation sucks but there's too much evidence saying otherwise.
If anybody doxxed my steam account in a similar manner, I'd probably face similar piracy accusations.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
You're shitting me right? You complaining on neogaf of all places of people buying games and not playing them? Go into sale threads and see how big some people's backlogs are.
Edit: And YOU keep the receipt, the vast majority of us don't. But you seem ok with making baseless claims and assumptions.
He looked like more of a collector to me. He had like 5 copy's of halo 2. Who else would own more then one if they don't collect? I love how you just jump right to pirate biased on you being a snoop.
If that's your 2 cents can I have a refund.
Baseless accusations aren't fair and you know it.
Not without a receipt, you dirty pirate.
I''ll send you a copy via pm and feel free to report the store to microsoft
d00d3n
Member
My steam account also looks highly suspicious by that logic. Kind of crazy that buying more games than you have time to play is incriminating these days.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Mine as well. Though most of my games are from Bundles.
d00d3n
Member
Don't worry buddy the store screwed up, I'll get you sorted out
Haha, that is brilliant.
Don't worry buddy the store screwed up, I'll get you sorted out
I'll post an update in 30 pages if/when you dont fix it!
Yeah I see it's visible again. I wonder if it was just a loading error earlier.
He got his first Halo 4 Achievement 10/27. So he took a picture of the game the day before he played it, much less got banned for playing it?
I get games and systems early all the time thanks to having a few friends at various retail stores. But the golden rule is to never take them online since I could get banned and my friends can loose their job.
If he did get a legit copy early he should have just played the single player and that's it.
If he did get a legit copy early he should have just played the single player and that's it.