• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Kenichiro Yoshida: Playstation will expand gaming experience to PC, mobile and cloud

yurinka

Member
Honest truth: talk is cheap. These CEOs can say anything they want meanwhile their actions say the complete opposite.

We still don't know the full extent of the 2-year porting window policy's effect on hardcore & core enthusiasts in the PS ecosystem yet. We can arguably say we have to a small extent with PSVR2, but slow adoption of that peripheral could be chalked up to other factors. If PS5 Pro has a more tepid adoption rate, though, then we'll start to have some clearer evidence that strategy is having a negative effect.
I don't know what you're talking about. Sony has been saying always the same during many years, the same Yoshida said here: their main focus will continue being PlayStation but they're working to grow in PC, mobile and cloud.

We know PS5 hardware sales continue improving,, they jus had an all time MAU record and PS only sequels of ported games are beating sales rercords. All the evidence we have until now says there's no efffect with the PC ports, and if there is any it's positive. We also know Sony is happy with PSVR2 since it's performind as they expected: better than PSVR1, they have realistic expectations and never expected to sell 600M of it. If ever exists, PS5 Pro, as happened with PS4 Pro, will represent a small portion of the total PS5 sales. Even if I assume that as happened with PS4 Pro Sony won't show Pro specific sales.

You guys acting like Sony hasn't ever done this before. Sony has always had a following on PC. EverQuest was the biggest MMO for a while.

The big push on PC is what they've said. GAAS now, years later you can get scraps on PC. Not a huge deal like people pretend it is.
On top of that we have to remember that GaaS and PC ports are made by new dedicated teams. Their console SP teams continue focused on SP and they have more resources than before, to bet also in GaaS and PC ports doesn't mean they had to remove resources from console SP games. If something, the plan is the opposite: to generate extra revenue and profit with GaaS and PC to help fund SP console games.
 
Last edited:
They had a bunch of PC only games at one point. They even had a dev that had some mmo sci fi shooter ( I think it was called planet scape or something like that) years ago before they sold them.

…… but that was all seperate from Playstation stuff. They weren’t really putting Playstation games on PC. See the difference?




You say their focus is GASS and ‘giving PC the “scraps” years later. But they have halved their GASS efforts, cancelled some of those games and honestly it’s looking marathon will be the only one that amounts to anything. So it looks like they will be more balanced than you suggest. I also expect the time between PS and PC releases to shorten dramatically soon.

TBH they should've stuck with the PC-centric only titles they had going a while back, like the Everquest MMO. Which did eventually get a port to PS2 but it was clearly PC-centric and that was perfectly fine. It allowed their software teams to prioritize specific games for specific audiences, back when audience crossover between console & PC was at a minimum (compared to what it is today), though certainly there was more crossover by the early '00s than say back in the mid '90s for sure.

Sony's biggest mistake going forward would be to cut down the porting window of non-GaaS titles to a year or less, or even Day 1, at least without some storefront or launcher of their own. Like I keep saying, these moves won't necessarily hurt the PS5 itself in terms of continued unit sales, although certain Collector's Edition models could see drop-offs in sales volumes. What doing that would hurt, is some portion of software & services revenue in the current ecosystem, and adoption of future systems like PS5 Pro and PS6.

People keep acting stupid as to why Xbox Series has been struggling so much to sell at pace with even the XBO, and the answer is obvious: with all their 1P games being Day 1 on PC, a lot of hardcore & core enthusiasts saw reduced reason for buying a new Xbox console. And since a lot of those would-be early adopters dipped out, we're seeing more and more casual & mainstream buyers, who are at some level influenced by the purchasing habits /momentum of hardcore & core enthusiasts when it comes to game console hardware, opt to get other systems over an Xbox. Even the aggressive pricing deals, something that normally works with casuals & mainstream, had minimum effect for Xbox over the holidays.

Now there are other reasons for Xbox's decline in hardware and (until they purchased big publishers & folded their revenue into Xbox division's) sales revenue besides this, but I'd say even most of those could be tied back to their PC strategy. Spreading out platform support for Day 1 across more devices meant less QA optimization for their games. It meant arguably lowered scope of their games to accommodate the lowered bar of expanded platforms that needed to be supported from Day 1. A lot of other things, too, in addition to these. All of which have contributed to a decline in Xbox hardware.

There's no sensible reason for Sony to follow this path, especially when they have literally no vested interests in PC be it their own storefront, OS, widely-used SDK & scripting language, middleware etc. the way Microsoft does (or Valve when it comes to storefronts). The ONLY reason would be if it's a deliberate inside job to sabotage the brand, it's getting to that point if they move forward in this direction. They'll never return to outright all console games exclusive to console and making PC exclusives or heavily PC-centric titles again, but the best way to simulate some aspect of that would be to focus on platforms like PC for some of the GaaS titles, and doing at least double the current window's time for ports of non-GaaS titles (so instead of 2-3 years, closer to 4-6 years). Meanwhile using PC for ports of legacy titles, including collections, with remasters and QOL updates. But that should all be balanced with NEW 1P exclusives for the console, mostly traditional/limited live-service but maybe a couple GaaS titles too.

And for mobile, that would be a great means of bringing back some 1P AA titles; some specific to mobile maybe based as offshoots of existing console IP (and a mix of traditional and GaaS, for example an MLB The Show F2P on mobile with fantasy league betting as an option), and some that can be simultaneously released on mobile and console (and maybe PC). Again, all of this should be the obvious way of going forward for SIE, but I have reasons to be cautious and that they'll screw it up in some monumental way. A lot of this changes if expanded efforts into a space like PC is paired to their own launcher & storefront, but I don't honestly see a need for them to prioritize that anytime within the next 10 years, unless they have just lost vision on how to innovate with future console hardware. In which case, that's on SIE for not thinking beyond "We need MOAR POWWAH!!", which ironically is the same trap Microsoft half-fell into this gen (their other mistake was sabotaging their own power narrative with a low-end system that struggles to run most current-gen games adequately).

Whatever SIE decide to do, it's going to determine their trajectory in gaming heading forward. For better or for worst.

I don't know what you're talking about. Sony has been saying always the same during many years, the same Yoshida said here: their main focus will continue being PlayStation but they're working to grow in PC, mobile and cloud.

Yoshida didn't actually say that this interview, though. No specifics on the plan were reiterated here, and it would've been a nice time to do so. We can't just assume the plan is the same today as it was a year or two ago because we heard Jim Ryan and others say it back then. You don't know if things have changed internally, because by the time it's communicated publicly, BTS changes would've occurred a good while ago.

We don't know what "PlayStation is our main focus" actually means in practice, yet. Again, it's about action, not talk. How are they going to show PlayStation is still their main focus? Does that mean more 1P exclusives to the console, more 3P exclusives, more M&As/investments/share buys into a balance of Western & Asian 3P devs/pubs who are console-orientated to bring more fresh & interesting AAA & AA games to PlayStation (preferably as exclusive, but some inevitably also prob being PC Day 1 as well)? More investments into technologies that can be capitalized upon for unique user experiences on future hardware?

OR, does "PlayStation is our main focus" mean finding ways to price-gouge the current customer base, pillage more console exclusives to bring to PC with no balance of new exclusives (genuine exclusives) coming to the current console, more increasingly meaningless 3P timed exclusives where PS owners are basically acting as paypigs for games that release a short while later on other platforms for cheaper or even "free" with additional features & content, a continued decline of gaming showcase events over the years, a continued virtual lack of presence in enthusiasts spaces online, more peripherals than games, little to no M&As/investments/share purchases in notable 3P devs & pubs to focus on the console brand, etc?

Because currently the statements could be taken either way. Without clarity and without action to back up the intent, vague statements don't mean much. I've mentioned this constantly about Phil Spencer; Yoshida doesn't get a pass automatically just because he's with Sony.

We know PS5 hardware sales continue improving,, they jus had an all time MAU record and PS only sequels of ported games are beating sales rercords. All the evidence we have until now says there's no efffect with the PC ports, and if there is any it's positive. We also know Sony is happy with PSVR2 since it's performind as they expected: better than PSVR1, they have realistic expectations and never expected to sell 600M of it. If ever exists, PS5 Pro, as happened with PS4 Pro, will represent a small portion of the total PS5 sales. Even if I assume that as happened with PS4 Pro Sony won't show Pro specific sales.

Hardware sales of base PS5 units (or revisions) wouldn't be the hardware that necessarily sees a decline at this point since from here on out it's going to be a lot of casuals and mainstream people buying PS5s. We'll see with future systems like the PS5 Pro, and PS6.

PSVR2 could be selling better, I don't think that's controversial to say. Getting outsold by Meta Quest 2 & 3 30:1 on Amazon isn't a great look, even if Amazon doesn't account for all sales. Pricing is a factor yes because the Quest devices are each cheaper than a PS5 & PSVR2 combined, but you'd think more hardcore/core enthusiasts would be interested in picking up a PSVR2 given they're the ones least concerned with price, as long as they perceive the value to be there.

To that end there hasn't been as good of messaging or marketing for PSVR2 compared to the first, and it's still missing some big VR games that could give a sales boost like, ironically, Half-Life: Alyx. The tech seems flat-out amazing, and I hope Sony iterate on it and make it scalable down to more mass-market production volumes to where they can include some cheap VR as standard in the PS6, but PSVR2 could be doing better all things considered in sales.

On top of that we have to remember that GaaS and PC ports are made by new dedicated teams. Their console SP teams continue focused on SP and they have more resources than before, to bet also in GaaS and PC ports doesn't mean they had to remove resources from console SP games. If something, the plan is the opposite: to generate extra revenue and profit with GaaS and PC to help fund SP console games.

That's not what we're currently seeing with Naughty Dog :/

That said, if they have one of their SP games to show off/reveal this year, and it has a release window this year or 2025, then they'll have shown the resources put into Factions 2, or TlOU Remake, or TLOU2 remaster, didn't divert much or any resources away from their new SP projects.
 

RickMasters

Member
Honestly, it would be great. I really don't need PlayStation 5 to play 1-2 first-party games per year. Give me Android TV app, I will give you my money for games/sub service and I can play it through cloud.

Win win
Pretty much how I feel about them. I like one or two of their games but not enough to go buy the whole console. I’d love to play GT7 but I’m simply not gonna buy the whole console for that one game. I can play Uncharted, returnal, god of war and horizon on my PC.



If I’m to be honest the main reason I still buy new Xbox’s is because that’s where my small band of gamer friends have been since x360 days. That and my backlog/ library……. Otherwise I wouldn’t mind the option to build my own small form factor console… steam box style but maybe with the Xbox OS? That can play all my games aswell as gamepass…. But I also want steam on it as some dual boot style set up. That would be my ideal Xbox. One box with both my libraries on it. I feel like we will get that Xbox maybe the generation after next. They could do the reference model and people like ASUS and Corsair would come and make licenced Xbox consoles that can also house your steam account and games all on one system. I want both my accounts on one box. Sony can sell me Playstation games on the steam storefront along with my PC games. And I want to play them all on one box. To me that will be the end of all this console war nonsense. The end winner is not supposed to be any of these companies….. the winner is supposed to be us. All my services on one box, preferably with a nicely lit ASUS/ ROG case and parts of my choice. That’s my ideal future Xbox.
 

yurinka

Member
Yoshida didn't actually say that this interview, though. No specifics on the plan were reiterated here, and it would've been a nice time to do so. We can't just assume the plan is the same today as it was a year or two ago because we heard Jim Ryan and others say it back then. You don't know if things have changed internally, because by the time it's communicated publicly, BTS changes would've occurred a good while ago.
We don't know what "PlayStation is our main focus" actually means in practice, yet.
Yoshida said exactly this in the video posted in the OP: "While PLAYSTATION WILL REMAIN AS OUR CORE PRODUCT, we'll expand our gaming experiences in PC, mobile and cloud."

Same as Jim Ryan or Hermen always said, and same as Sony said. They plan to expand in PS, mobile and cloud (plus in GaaS, Asia or movie & tv show adaptations), but their main focus will continue being PlayStation and the growth in these new ares won't be at the expenses of their main business: PlayStation.

Again, it's about action, not talk. How are they going to show PlayStation is still their main focus?
How about releasing this year over a half a dozen already announced 1st party games plus many 3rd party exclusives like FFVII Rebirth, Granblue Fantasy Relink and so on? And all the accesories, hardware review, PSVR2 and PS+ improvements etc. they released last year? Plus many stuff they already have announced as TBA but that very likely (like Silent Hill stuff) will be released this year, or 2024 stuff still to be announced. Plus having marketing deals with most top multiplatform games etc. How about acquiring Insomniac, Housemarque, Blueopint, Bungie, Firewalk, Nixxes, Haven, EVO, etc (plus more to come)? How about having spent on 2nd party deals for this gen more than ever before? How about spending more in 3rd party exclusives for this gen more than ever before?

OR, does "PlayStation is our main focus" mean
PlayStation is our main focus means that they spend most of their main budget on making, signing and marketing PS games plus also hardware, accesories and services. While for PC they only send like around $10M on 4 or 5 ports and for mobile only have a small studio in Finland and they make deals with Asian top teams to make mobile games for mainly Asia (plus are working on -or waiting to release it when they consider it's the time- the mobile cloud gaming client).

Getting outsold by Meta Quest 2 & 3 30:1 on Amazon
These Amazon numbers are fake and if would be real they aren't representative of the global numbers from all retailers.

Quest has a bigger market share because it's way cheaper and has many other usages outside gaming plus isn't a console accesory: it's a standalone, a different dedicated VR category.

PSVR2 has almost a third of the worldwide sales, and is the king of the non standalone VR, plus in the biggest gaming countrry of the world (China) there's no Meta and no Amazon.
FAX-z7lXIAk6ytA.jpg:large

Global-XR-market-share-Q3-2023.jpg

China-VR-Market-_Thum.jpg

virtual-reality-market-share-by-region.jpg

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/?coverage=xr-360
https://www.precedenceresearch.com/virtual-reality-market

That's not what we're currently seeing with Naughty Dog :/
Yes, it's what we are seing in ND: before Jimbo and Hermen they only had before a single new big SP in development with TLOU2. And now they have two or three new big SP in development.

They had a MP team that grew to be a standalone game team and now they canned it and will focus these resources instead on SP games.

Plus on top of that they released (mostly outsourced) 3 remasters/remakes and their ports. And the movie, tv show and theme park adaptations.

ND is now way bigger and has way more resources for SP games now than they ever had in their history.
 
Last edited:

Raonak

Banned
Yoshida said exactly this in the video posted in the OP: "While PLAYSTATION WILL REMAIN AS OUR CORE PRODUCT, we'll expand our gaming experiences in PC, mobile and cloud."

Same as Jim Ryan or Hermen always said, and same as Sony said. They plan to expand in PS, mobile and cloud (plus in GaaS, Asia or movie & tv show adaptations), but their main focus will continue being PlayStation and the growth in these new ares won't be at the expenses of their main business: PlayStation.


How about releasing this year over a half a dozen already announced 1st party games plus many 3rd party exclusives like FFVII Rebirth, Granblue Fantasy Relink and so on? And all the accesories, hardware review, PSVR2 and PS+ improvements etc. they released last year? Plus many stuff they already have announced as TBA but that very likely (like Silent Hill stuff) will be released this year, or 2024 stuff still to be announced. Plus having marketing deals with most top multiplatform games etc. How about acquiring Insomniac, Housemarque, Blueopint, Bungie, Firewalk, Nixxes, Haven, EVO, etc (plus more to come)? How about having spent on 2nd party deals for this gen more than ever before? How about spending more in 3rd party exclusives for this gen more than ever before?


PlayStation is our main focus means that they spend most of their main budget on making, signing and marketing PS games plus also hardware, accesories and services. While for PC they only send like around $10M on 4 or 5 ports and for mobile only have a small studio in Finland and they make deals with Asian top teams to make mobile games for mainly Asia (plus are working on -or waiting to release it when they consider it's the time- the mobile cloud gaming client).


These Amazon numbers are fake and if would be real they aren't representative of the global numbers from all retailers, where PSVR has a bigger. Quest has a bigger market share because it's way cheaper and has many other usages outside gaming plus isn't a console accesory. PSVR2 has almost a third of the worldwide sales, plus in the biggest gaming countrry of the world (China) there's no Meta and no Amazon.

Global-XR-market-share-Q3-2023.jpg

China-VR-Market-_Thum.jpg

virtual-reality-market-share-by-region.jpg

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/?coverage=xr-360
https://www.precedenceresearch.com/virtual-reality-market


Yes, it's what we are seing in ND: they only had before a single new big SP in development with TLOU2.

And now they have two or three new big SP in development. They had a MP team that grew to be a standalone game team and now they canned it and will focus them on SP games. Plus on top of that they released (mostly outsourced) 3 remasters/remakes and their ports. And the movie and tv show adaptations.

ND is now way bigger and has way more resources for SP games now than they ever had in their history.

Wow, that's pretty impressive of PSVR2.
 

Papa_Wisdom

Member
Pretty much how I feel about them. I like one or two of their games but not enough to go buy the whole console. I’d love to play GT7 but I’m simply not gonna buy the whole console for that one game. I can play Uncharted, returnal, god of war and horizon on my PC.



If I’m to be honest the main reason I still buy new Xbox’s is because that’s where my small band of gamer friends have been since x360 days. That and my backlog/ library……. Otherwise I wouldn’t mind the option to build my own small form factor console… steam box style but maybe with the Xbox OS? That can play all my games aswell as gamepass…. But I also want steam on it as some dual boot style set up. That would be my ideal Xbox. One box with both my libraries on it. I feel like we will get that Xbox maybe the generation after next. They could do the reference model and people like ASUS and Corsair would come and make licenced Xbox consoles that can also house your steam account and games all on one system. I want both my accounts on one box. Sony can sell me Playstation games on the steam storefront along with my PC games. And I want to play them all on one box. To me that will be the end of all this console war nonsense. The end winner is not supposed to be any of these companies….. the winner is supposed to be us. All my services on one box, preferably with a nicely lit ASUS/ ROG case and parts of my choice. That’s my ideal future Xbox.
This is pretty much me too!
 

DryvBy

Member
They had a bunch of PC only games at one point. They even had a dev that had some mmo sci fi shooter ( I think it was called planet scape or something like that) years ago before they sold them.

…… but that was all seperate from Playstation stuff. They weren’t really putting Playstation games on PC. See the difference?




You say their focus is GASS and ‘giving PC the “scraps” years later. But they have halved their GASS efforts, cancelled some of those games and honestly it’s looking marathon will be the only one that amounts to anything. So it looks like they will be more balanced than you suggest. I also expect the time between PS and PC releases to shorten dramatically soon.

They're not putting all of their current PlayStation games on PC either. Just like in the 90s, I mostly played apC games and I played LAN Jet Moto and TM2. I still have my discs. So like I said before, this isn't new. PS3 era was the one time they really weren't doing things, but PC has been in the picture since the 90s.
 

John Wick

Member
People grasping at straws here? Sony won't release their SP games on PC day one. It would ruin their business on console. Yes some MP games will release day and date with PC.
 
Top Bottom