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[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Maybe they're coming at it thinking of the story as a serious story, but Guerilla's clever and instead have written a completely subversive cult B-move style story

 

[hamchan]

halo 3 didnt have a shitty story? I cant remember a single notable thing about it, apart from Cortana being flashed across the screen in an annoying manner.

I'll take a forgettable story over a story that's so horrible I can never forget it.

 

[Shaka]

I'll take a forgettable story over a story that's so horrible I can never forget it.

Is KZ3 that terrible?

 

[hamchan]

Is KZ3 that terrible?

Maybe, I don't know. KZ2's story was forgettable but the characters were so terrible, I will never ever forget them.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Can I ask, in a totally not-trolling way, why is that most of the outlets I respect the most (out of those listed) have rated it kinda low? And with low I mean not blown-away good but "just" good to pretty good.
What are the issues they're pointing out (besides awful story and characters which we already knew it was going to happen, especially if you had played at least one of the two console games)?

 

[ZeroRay]

Maybe they're coming at it thinking of the story as a serious story, but Guerilla's clever and instead have written a completely subversive cult B-move style story

The game Bulletstorm wishes to be. Brilliant!

 

[EnjoyIncubus]

Killzone 2's single player campaign was awful, so I'm not surprised to hear some people say this one's isn't any good either.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

The game Bulletstorm wishes to be. Brilliant!

Exactly! But whereas Bulletstorm fell off the deep end into childish parody, KZ3 is in fact an intellectual exercise in subverting war cliches. I mean think about it, an examination of unlikeable manly men in a desperate situation while greedy war profiteers fight for control while we, the players who for the most part have never fought in a war, must play as the antithesis of our nature, the manly men not in control of their fate.

Essentially, Guerrilla is calling us pussies.

 

[DancingJesus]

Can I ask, in a totally not-trolling way, why is that most of the outlets I respect the most (out of those listed) have rated it kinda low? And with low I mean not blown-away good but "just" good to pretty good.
What are the issues they're pointing out (besides awful story and characters which we already knew it was going to happen, especially if you had played at least one of the two console games)?

But every brilliant moment is countered by another of frustration, anger, or boredom. For the most part, the gameplay devolves into a mindless shooting gallery, where the greatest threat isn't enemy intelligence, but a hilarious amount of grenade spam. It's not uncommon to come to a barrier and have three grenades land at your feet ... every thirty seconds. And even when you're not under explosive assault, the game lobs equally temperamental objectives your way that tend to be unclear and poorly communicated. Considering how much of the game is driven by set pieces, it's amazing how often you'll feel lost.

The game's excessive reliance on rail-shooting segments quickly outstays its welcome. Sure, the vehicle you're in may change -- whether you're in a gunship, a tank, an ice plow, etc. -- but the tactics are mercilessly mindless. Just keep holding R1 until everything explodes. Don't think. Just watch the explosions! They're so pretty!

As I reached the last third of the game's story, and it felt like events were swelling to an epic climax, the six-hour campaign abruptly ended after a short on-rails shooting sequence. While a majority of the campaign is generic and the levels themselves aren't all that great, it's still one of the best -- if not the best -- looking shooters for console gamers right now. The sheer amount of detail within this game is fantastic and still looks great when you take the game online -- and that's when the game really starts to shine.

Don't know who you are exactly referring to but some weren't fond of the single-player experience itself. While others seemed to really enjoy it:

Multiplayer however seems to be getting equal critical acclaim.

Killzone 3 also does a nice job at breaking up the levels between sections where you're on foot, and where you're kicking ass in a super powered vehicle. While the entire game is very linear, Guerilla's done a great job at varying what you're doing just enough from moment to moment to keep you from seeing behind the curtain too much. Each skirmish is so intense, and so visually satisfying, that I'm often too engrossed to think about the story or how I'm being funneled in a very specific direction.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Maybe, I don't know. KZ2's story was forgettable but the characters were so terrible, I will never ever forget them.

I know, but if you've played a Gears of War game you're prepared for anything

Edit:
Thanks Dancing Jesus, that explains it. I was mostly referring to Games TM, 1UP and I misread what I thought to be a 7/10 from Edge which in fact wasn't there at all.
Disappointing to hear the sp campaign is super short and underwhelming at best.

 

[btkadams]

Killzone 2's single player campaign was awful, so I'm not surprised to hear some people say this one's isn't any good either.

geez am i the only one who really enjoyed killzone 2's campaign? the story was nothing special and rico was lame but i loved the gameplay/level design/etc. i'll probably always remember the level where

Spoiler

the ISA ship you're on gets attacked and is like invaded by Helghast before it crashes into the planet

.


plus sev is hot in the new game so now i have one thing to like about the story/characters.

 

[JaseC]

Seems as though the SP campaign is shorter than that of Killzone 2, which is inexcusable.

 

[ZeroRay]

Exactly! But whereas Bulletstorm fell off the deep end into childish parody, KZ3 is in fact an intellectual exercise in subverting war cliches. I mean think about it, an examination of unlikeable manly men in a desperate situation while greedy war profiteers fight for control while we, the players who for the most part have never fought in a war, must play as the antithesis of our nature, the manly men not in control of their fate.

Essentially, Guerrilla is calling us pussies.

Amazing analysis. I'll be writing an essay on this very subject after I beat KZ3.

 

[dustin]

there's a lot of angry people in this thread

 

[evolution]

Its really unfortunate the story doesn't seem to be that great. Guerrilla made a big point that it was an area they were trying to improve for this one. I think because theres so few shooters with good stories these days that I've become desensitized in a sense to most games, and i'll probably just play this one to "blow shit up" cause it does look cool lol.

They should make this the last Killzone and start from scratch on a new IP. The back-story is pretty cool, but i think this arc of the story needs to die. With that said, I would love to see an open world game on helghan from the viewpoint of the helghast.

 

[Lion Heart]

geez am i the only one who really enjoyed killzone 2's campaign? the story was nothing special and rico was lame but i loved the gameplay/level design/etc. i'll probably always remember the level where

Spoiler

the ISA ship you're on gets attacked and is like invaded by Helghast before it crashes into the planet

.


plus sev is hot in the new game so now i have one thing to like about the story/characters.

I loved it, its my favourite FPS SP this gen, with Singularity coming in 2nd (never beat it unfortunately). My fav was the desert level though, with the snipers and all that crazyness.

 

[Thunderbear]

I don't agree with some of you people's opinion about the KZ2 story. Yes it wasn't great, but it wasn't worse than any other shooter out there. It would be great if Killzone had a good story, I think it's a bit disappointing because the universe itself is really interesting and so is the background story but unless this game is actually offensive I doubt it's going to hinder me enjoying the game. From the Gametrailers review it sounds like a lot of it is an excuse for "Hollywood" type action moments and I can live with that. It also specifically mentioned that some minor character story elements are actually good.

I've just been playing the Botzone mode in the "beta" and from that alone I can tell that I will love to play the game and go through all the action. The story didn't wreck MW2, Halo 2/3, Blops or Crysis for me so I doubt it will for this game.

I've never seen a triple A game that does everything else right get docked so many points for story and I don't buy that it's so bad that it detracts from the game in more ways than the aforementioned titles...

The Gametrailers review is the one I feel, without having played the game other than the beta, is the most fair one.

 

[theignoramus]

I'll take a forgettable story over a story that's so horrible I can never forget it.

oh, so you`ve played KZ3. those are very strong words, so I hope youve actually played it.

 

[SonOfABeep]

Killzone 2 had some good setpeices and stuff but i thought it was kinda bad overall. Especially the last boss fight and the mess of call of duty gameplay before that as well.

And people are actually discussing story?? Killzone has a story???

Halo isn't the best story ever but I always thought that they made it pretty clear that religious zealotry was always the reason they were fighting. And the way the covenant changed from Halo 1 to Halo 2 was at least unique in the shooter space.

I have zero fucking clue what I'm doing shooting these red eye English dudes.

Wish I could just pay them $30 for the single player. lol.

 

[ConradCervantes]

I'm still pumped for it. The story in KZ2 wasn't anything to write home about, so I wasn't expecting any different from its successor.

 

[Garjon]

I knew this would happen. Set-piece gameplay should be reserved for very brief moments of the game in order to help the pacing. When you base an entire campaign on it, it's amazing how boring it can get in a short space of time.

Very bad design philosophy and as a result, I'm knocking this down to a budget buy.

 

[Synless]

Don't know who you are exactly referring to but some weren't fond of the single-player experience itself. While others seemed to really enjoy it:

Multiplayer however seems to be getting equal critical acclaim.

Over looking that joystiq review you quoted, have they ever played CoD? Grenade spamming AI? Check, on rails story segments? Check. Yet one gets critical acclaim and the other gets docked points.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Why do people hold game writers to such high standards? 98% of video games have terrible stories/VA/writing.

 

[Always-honest]

i always wonder when STORY became part of the equation when it comes to reviews.

Why do people hold game writers to such high standards? 98% of video games have terrible stories/VA/writing.

This too.

 

[Norml]

But every brilliant moment is countered by another of frustration, anger, or boredom. For the most part, the gameplay devolves into a mindless shooting gallery, where the greatest threat isn't enemy intelligence, but a hilarious amount of grenade spam. It's not uncommon to come to a barrier and have three grenades land at your feet ... every thirty seconds. And even when you're not under explosive assault, the game lobs equally temperamental objectives your way that tend to be unclear and poorly communicated. Considering how much of the game is driven by set pieces, it's amazing how often you'll feel lost.

Isn't impossible to get lost or did GG take out the simple objectives marker from KZ2?

 

[btkadams]

Why do people hold game writers to such high standards? 98% of video games have terrible stories/VA/writing.

because certain games have set the bar extremely high in terms of story and voice acting.

EDIT: i certainly don't agree that story/va being meh is enough to trash a game. gameplay is the biggest part of what makes a game good.

 

[kevm3]

Over looking that joystiq review you quoted, have they ever played CoD? Grenade spamming AI? Check, on rails story segments? Check. Yet one gets critical acclaim and the other gets docked points.

Yeah pretty much. Where is the criticism for Call of Duty over that or the fact that it has virtually remained the same game in its 4th iteration?

 

[SonOfABeep]

Over looking that joystiq review you quoted, have they ever played CoD? Grenade spamming AI? Check, on rails story segments? Check. Yet one gets critical acclaim and the other gets docked points.

Um, Black Ops got 4/5 stars from joystiq
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/09/call-of-duty-black-ops-review/

Killzone 3 got 3.5/5 stars.

i always wonder when STORY became part of the equation when it comes to reviews.

When a game has 70 minutes of cutscenes, story is a part of the equation.

 

[Shaka]

Seems as though the SP campaign is shorter than that of Killzone 2, which is inexcusable.

Wat? I read that it was 8 hours long. WTF!?

 

[StuBurns]

It looks very pretty, I shall certainly rent it and give the single player a run thru.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Who buys a game like this for the story? KZ series is for graphic whore fps fans to show off their PS3 and fancy hdtv, nothing more. Fortunately for me I fall right into that category.

 

[Majine]

I never played KZ games for the story, I play them for the mechanics, the graphics and the multiplayer. And by that standard, I'm pretty sure I'll have a blast when it comes out.

Now why did they feed us reviews 3 weeks before the release? That's just mean.

 

[ZeroRay]

When a game has 70 minutes of cutscenes, story is a part of the equation.

Definitely. If you'll be spending a good 1/6 of the time watching cutscenes, they better be good.

 

[hamchan]

Over looking that joystiq review you quoted, have they ever played CoD? Grenade spamming AI? Check, on rails story segments? Check. Yet one gets critical acclaim and the other gets docked points.

I think Black Ops and Killzone 3 currently has the same metacritic score

 

[Jtrizzy]

I'm sure the cut scenes will be skippable.

 

[NemesisPrime]

I knew this would happen. Set-piece gameplay should be reserved for very brief moments of the game in order to help the pacing. When you base an entire campaign on it, it's amazing how boring it can get in a short space of time.

Very bad design philosophy and as a result, I'm knocking this down to a budget buy.

Set piece stuff in FPS is a really bad trend IMHO. It is used to fake good AI and to hide shortcomings in the gameplay. Give me good AI and sandbox gameplay (HL, Halo, L4D) any day over set piece nonsense. I blame COD, but it is a pity that everybody and his dog seems to think they need this kind of gameplay in an FPS. Write some good AI instead please.

 

[Always-honest]

When a game has 70 minutes of cutscenes, story is a part of the equation.

Well yeah, but it was allready part of the equation.. so they feel they have to.
Story doesn't have to be much longer or more complicated than: ""Aliens have invaded our planet, kill 'm all".

Don't get me wrong, i love a game that has a GOOD story and i will even buy a game for taking me on a journey in that story, but most games don't have a good story. In those cases i rather see them keeping it simple and focus on great gameplay.

Fuck cutscenes. edit: nah, i can even like a good cutscene, but don't make 'm too long.

the amount of cutscenes and unplayable parts in Black Ops aggrivated me to no extend.

 

[Jtrizzy]

If this was open world fps, we wouldn't be getting all the fancy tech/graphics though since it's a console game right?

 

[Always-honest]

If this was open world fps, we wouldn't be getting all the fancy tech/graphics though since it's a console game right?

Why, were they also complaining about the linearity? Cause that would make them just retarded.

 

[Rikyfree]

Set piece stuff in FPS is a really bad trend IMHO. It is used to fake good AI and to hide shortcomings in the gameplay. Give me good AI and sandbox gameplay (HL, Halo, L4D) any day over set piece nonsense. I blame COD, but it is a pity that everybody and his dog seems to think they need this kind of gameplay in an FPS. Write some good AI instead please.

Then there are some setpiece games that have great AI, like KZ.

 

[Shaka]

Set piece stuff in FPS is a really bad trend IMHO. It is used to fake good AI and to hide shortcomings in the gameplay. Give me good AI and sandbox gameplay (HL, Halo, L4D) any day over set piece nonsense. I blame COD, but it is a pity that everybody and his dog seems to think they need this kind of gameplay in an FPS. Write some good AI instead please.

^ Yep, KZ A.I. is world class.

 

[molekiller]

When I read "only offline split-screen coop" I thought I travelled back in time to the N64 years, but no, it's 2011, so Guerrilla must be working on a time machine or something...

No online coop + input lag (call it as you want, heavy controls, realistic controls, etc.) = Maybe buy when it reaches platinum next year. God, try playing the beta and Vanquish after it, darkest night against a f*ck*ng sunny summer day.

 

[Synless]

I think Black Ops and Killzone 3 currently has the same metacritic score

Did they say such harsh things about Black ops though?

 

[Jtrizzy]

Why, were they also complaining about the linearity? Cause that would make them just retarded.

I haven't read any of the reviews, just pointing out to those asking for a more open wold style game that the graphics wouldn't be nearly as mind blowing since its on console.

 

[Always-honest]

I haven't read any of the reviews, just pointing out to those asking for a more open wold style game that the graphics wouldn't be nearly as mind blowing since its on console.

Well sure, that AND the gameplay wouldn't have the same pace or be as exciting.
Sandbox gameplay isn't an end to all means.

 

[NemesisPrime]

^ Yep, KZ A.I. is world class.

I hope that is sarcasm?

 

[Shaka]

I hope that is sarcasm?

Yeh

 

[thuway]

Sounds like you skipped the cutscenes like the average joe blow gamer. Great assessment.

Don't even throw that shit out there. Most First Person Shooters that aren't named Half Life, Portal, Bioshock, or Resistance Fall of Man have SP stories that are so poorly told, its not even funny.

Halo has never had a strong story. You can build the case that I need to read the novels to fully comprehend, but honestly, the game itself should be good enough to draw me in. Not some lame fanfic that gets authorized to be sold officially.

 

[bj00rn_]

When all other arguments fails, you can always fall back on blaming Halo! Lol @ sour grapes.

Ah well, reviews seems good to me, expectations were pumped up as usual around here, but it's not like the game bombed critique-wise. Seems like a solid game?

 

[Feindflug]

They DID NOT give into those folks. KZ3 still feels a lot like KZ2, but is simply more responsive. I was surprised at how similar it felt, given the comments.

The fact is, there was simply too much input lag in KZ2. They needed to improve it and they did so without sacrificing the sense of weight. It does NOT feel anything like CoD.

There were some bad design decisions in KZ2 as well. I mean, clicking the right stick to zoom? That shit sucked in Halo 1. With KZ2 offering iron sights, it just didn't work. The whole cover system was at odds with ADS and it never felt right as a result. Fortunately, you could change it to L1, but I don't see how this was ever a good design choice.

Exactly this...how can anyone brought up as a negative the vastly improved controls is beyond me - Guerilla listened and made the controls better, more accurate and less sluggish but at the same time kept the weight and different feel of the second game.

In fact I'm happy they listened and fixed the controls because now I'll actually get the game, KZ2's main problem was the bad and laggy controls IMO.

Also the bitching about some of the reviews is getting ridiculous, the game is getting mostly great scores and we still haven't played the freakin' game...I seriously don't get all this obsession with metacritic - stop with the "oh no it's under 90%, I can't enjoy that!!!!" BS.