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[Morrigan Stark]

I got lagstabbed from about 50m away the first time I got invaded in DS2.

Lagstabs exist in both, but backstabs are significantly more powerful in DS1, especially with the hornet ring, and the day-to-day PvP is far more centered about fishing for backstabs in DS1 than in DS2 because of that and that makes for powerfully boring matches. In DS2 it's not even really worth it to fish for BS, plus some pieces of equipment nullify them completely (Jester's outfit, though I'd never wear that because I have dignity).

 

[Kieli]

Lagstabs exist in both, but backstabs are significantly more powerful in DS1, especially with the hornet ring, and the day-to-day PvP is far more centered about fishing for backstabs in DS1 than in DS2 because of that and that makes for powerfully boring matches. In DS2 it's not even really worth it to fish for BS, plus some pieces of equipment nullify them completely (Jester's outfit, though I'd never wear that because I have dignity).

I sincerely wish they would take out backstabs out of the game entirely.

 

[CHC]

I sincerely wish they would take out backstabs out of the game entirely.

They should at the very least be based off of heavy attacks rather than light ones. They should have some kind of wind up time that discourages using them against fast enemies or when you're fighting groups. Or it should only be possible with certain weapons (daggers and the like), and their playstyle should be based off of that.

Getting a giant fucking backstab with a two handed axe faster than you can swing it in normal circumstances is just silly. The mechanic started its life innocuously enough but it's really come to dominate the Souls meta-game in a not fun kind of way.

I actually quite liked how Bloodborne handled "backstabs" - a fully charged strong attack from behind would render your enemy vulnerable to a critical. Pulling it off was often a challenge, but highly rewarding.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I sincerely wish they would take out backstabs out of the game entirely.

They should at the very least be based off of heavy attacks rather than light ones. They should have some kind of wind up time that discourages using them against fast enemies or when you're fighting groups.

Bloodb--

I actually quite liked how Bloodborne handled "backstabs" - a fully charged strong attack from behind would render your enemy vulnerable to a critical. Pulling it off was often a challenge, but highly rewarding.

Well there ya go.

 

[Jathaine]

In this instance, your go-to argument boils down to 'git gud'? Come on, guy!

And why wouldn't it?
The complaint was no different than someone complaining about too many people "spamming fireballs" in Street Fighter.

The correct response is, in fact, git gud.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

And why wouldn't it?
The complaint was no different than someone complaining about too many people "spamming fireballs" in Street Fighter.

The correct response is, in fact, git gud.

Uh, no. Did you even read my replies?

Also, the SF comparison is stupid, because SF is built around competitive PvP and is balanced accordingly. Souls games are not.

 

[gogosox82]

What's bad is that's its a pointless hurdle. 2 main things overall make it bad.

1 - its not clearly explained anywhere what it does. So people who have played other souls games but not read up online what it does will be getting hit while rolling and not having a clue why.

2 - you level up a lot faster and more often in a dark souls play through than the other games. The 10 - 15 levels needed to get normal roll iframes and item usage speeds make little difference to your overall build in terms of stat usage and once you pile them on at the beginning of the game you don't care about the stat ever again. It's pretty much entirely pointless.

On a side story, a funny thing happened. I was going through my second playthroughs. Bit last night. Killed the rotten lit the fire and this huge thing came out of the fire I had never seen before (I think it's aldia?). Then I got a trophy for lighting that fire.....

I can only guess the first time I played it I never lit that fire for some reason lol. Oops.

This. They could've added what adp does without having an agility stat. Add in two new roll speeds and keep the item burden at 70% and your done.

 

[Teeth]

What's bad is that's its a pointless hurdle. 2 main things overall make it bad.

1 - its not clearly explained anywhere what it does. So people who have played other souls games but not read up online what it does will be getting hit while rolling and not having a clue why.

This is an interesting argument since the game doesn't tell you about iframes at all. All of the iframes in the Souls game stack at the beginning of the roll, so you can be hit at the tail end in any of the Souls games, regardless of roll type. Reducing an iframe by 1 literally reduces the comparative strictness of the button press by 1/60 of a second. Wondering why you got tagged is the same reason you got tagged during a roll animation in DS1 - you dodged too early.

2 - you level up a lot faster and more often in a dark souls play through than the other games. The 10 - 15 levels needed to get normal roll iframes and item usage speeds make little difference to your overall build in terms of stat usage and once you pile them on at the beginning of the game you don't care about the stat ever again. It's pretty much entirely pointless.

Only if you want to or need it. I don't crank ADP at the beginning of my playthroughs as I prefer to get strength up for weapons first. It's the same as any other stat.

On a side story, a funny thing happened. I was going through my second playthroughs. Bit last night. Killed the rotten lit the fire and this huge thing came out of the fire I had never seen before (I think it's aldia?). Then I got a trophy for lighting that fire.....

I can only guess the first time I played it I never lit that fire for some reason lol. Oops.

They patched in the Aldia stuff to the vanilla game when Scholar of the First Sin came out. It's possible you didn't light that primal fire, as I think you can open the gates without the 4 Lord souls by grinding enough normal souls.

 

[Nev]

I looked around and I didn't find what I was looking for so I went out and made a video comparing the weapon animations of some basic weapons from both Dark Souls and Dark Souls II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rFXpdNYgM

The weapons are: straight swords, greatswords, scimitar, hand axe, morning star, spear and halberd. I also made a quick comparison of the recovery time you have to deal with in each game before you can roll and an attempt to attack behind after a roll.

Seeing the two games side by side I can only confirm what I previously thought: that DS animations, controls and weapons feel is infinitely superior to these of DS2, which looks like:

A) A clone game made by another studio with way lower budget that used too much of that budget in graphics.

B) The game that came before Dark Souls and even Demon's Souls, rough animations due to it being the first version of the formula and having much, much lower budget and zero expectations.

Some weapons in DS2 can barely hold up, but most of them are just embarrassing when compared to the same weapons in DS. I mean, they completely lost the weight feeling of DS's animations and replaced it with some clunky, weird, rushed plastic weapon thing. Worst offenders for me are the halberd and the greatsword. While the DS character is trying to swing powerful weighty weapons resulting in satisfying animations with solid feedback, the DS2 character seems to be trying to figure out how to deal damage with a toy weapon imitation with no weight at all.

Making this has just cemented my stance on the matter: the gameplay in DS2 is a severe downgrade.

But that's my opinion, you can draw your own conclusions, as there's no bias in the video or tricks to favor DS. The attacks that are missing (two or three of the rush attacks) aren't there because I had problems with the Dark Souls footage due to the PC port being absolutely dreadful (that's why there's some stuttering or fps drops in that footage and not in DSII's) so instead of going back to that awful experience again I just didn't include that particular attack, I couldn't be arsed trying to fix the problems with that shitty port any longer. I think it's just the halberd one hand rush attack and the scimitar two hands rush attack, but it might be one more. It's a rush attack for sure though, the rest are all included.

 

[krakov]

I agree with the above. Even if the world and level design (which is often criticized) would be top notch in DS2 there any many fundamental problems I can't get past. It looks, feels and sounds cartoony and silly compared to previous games.

I really really hope DS3 gets this right, from what we've seen I'm hopeful. Bloodborne fixed all these problems imho and feels very similar to DeS and DS with some of it's own flair on top.

 

[silva1991]

I looked around and I didn't find what I was looking for so I went out and made a video comparing the weapon animations of some basic weapons from both Dark Souls and Dark Souls II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rFXpdNYgM

The weapons are: straight swords, greatswords, scimitar, hand axe, morning star, spear and halberd. I also made a quick comparison of the recovery time you have to deal with in each game before you can roll and an attempt to attack behind after a roll.

Seeing the two games side by side I can only confirm what I previously thought: that DS animations, controls and weapons feel is infinitely superior to these of DS2, which looks like:

A) A clone game made by another studio with way lower budget that used too much of that budget in graphics.

B) The game that came before Dark Souls and even Demon's Souls, rough animations due to it being the first version of the formula and having much, much lower budget and zero expectations.

Some weapons in DS2 can barely hold up, but most of them are just embarrassing when compared to the same weapons in DS. I mean, they completely lost the weight feeling of DS's animations and replaced it with some clunky, weird, rushed plastic weapon thing. Worst offenders for me are the halberd and the greatsword. While the DS character is trying to swing powerful weighty weapons resulting in satisfying animations with solid feedback, the DS2 character seems to be trying to figure out how to deal damage with a toy weapon imitation with no weight at all.

Making this has just cemented my stance on the matter: the gameplay in DS2 is a severe downgrade.

But that's my opinion, you can draw your own conclusions, as there's no bias in the video or tricks to favor DS. The attacks that are missing (two or three of the rush attacks) aren't there because I had problems with the Dark Souls footage due to the PC port being absolutely dreadful (that's why there's some stuttering or fps drops in that footage and not in DSII's) so instead of going back to that awful experience again I just didn't include that particular attack, I couldn't be arsed trying to fix the problems with that shitty port any longer. I think it's just the halberd one hand rush attack and the scimitar two hands rush attack, but it might be one more. It's a rush attack for sure though, the rest are all included.

I have always noticed how inferior the weapons animations were in DS2 and not just that

1- swings don't feel half as satisfying as they were in DS1

2- they don't have the sense of weight that DS1 weapons had

3- the weapon move sets are less varied between different weapons. for example they did bring back some black knights weapons but they didn't have that unique R2 special attack for some reason instead of that R2 attack wasn't different from some other weapons in terms of animation iirc.

DS1 is was and still a beast.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

...This video really doesn't prove the things you say it does. lol

For one thing, you compared the DS1 longsword to the DS2 broadsword. That's kind of dumb, as they have different movesets.

For a few actual concrete examples that shows where DS2 is better;
- DS1 scimitar running r1 is pathetic, what is that xD (admittedly subjective but it seems obvious to me)
- DS1 hand axe 1h r1 is pitiful and doesn't have any weight, it's like someone waving the axe in front of them (the first r1 at least, the follow-up is a bit better), DS2 actually attempts to cut
- DS1 hand axe r2 does not combo, DS2 does
- DS1 morning star doesn't even combo the r1 (yeesh), DS2 does
- DS1 morningstar 2h r1 is a sad little thing, looks like the user doesn't know how to swing it (again subjective, I'll admit)
- DS1 2h halberd, the user looks like he's struggling with it. It's too sluggish. I remember only ever using the r1 in DS1 with it, but used more attacks in DS2 (I almost always 2h it because, y'know, it's a goddamn halberd). The running attack is better in DS2, I used it all the time, it can deal devastating 3-hit damage too.

Not because I'm not biased with a hard-on of hate on either game, I'll say this:
- From memory (because your video failed to take the right weapon ) I think still prefer the DS1 longsword moveset, mostly because of the thrust attack, however, I prefer Demon's Souls over both of these anyway.
- DS1 scimitar 2h is better and faster, the 2h swings are weird in DS2.
- Sometimes the character movement looks a bit funny in DS2
- The recovery speed is indeed true, but I'm not sure it's a good or a bad thing. I think lighter weapons should have fast recovery and slow weapons have low recovery, ideally. I think once again Demon's Souls did it best.

 

[Nev]

...This video really doesn't prove the things you say it does. lol

For one thing, you compared the DS1 longsword to the DS2 broadsword. That's kind of dumb, as they have different movesets.

For a few actual concrete examples that shows where DS2 is better;
- DS1 scimitar running r1 is pathetic, what is that xD (admittedly subjective but it seems obvious to me)
- DS1 hand axe 1h r1 is pitiful and doesn't have any weight, it's like someone waving the axe in front of them (the first r1 at least, the follow-up is a bit better), DS2 actually attempts to cut
- DS1 hand axe r2 does not combo, DS2 does
- DS1 morning star doesn't even combo the r1 (yeesh), DS2 does
- DS1 morningstar 2h r1 is a sad little thing, looks like the user doesn't know how to swing it (again subjective, I'll admit)
- DS1 2h halberd, the user looks like he's struggling with it. It's too sluggish. I remember only ever using the r1 in DS1 with it, but used more attacks in DS2 (I almost always 2h it because, y'know, it's a goddamn halberd). The running attack is better in DS2, I used it all the time, it can deal devastating 3-hit damage too.

Not because I'm not biased with a hard-on of hate on either game, I'll say this:
- From memory (because your video failed to take the right weapon ) I think still prefer the DS1 longsword moveset, mostly because of the thrust attack, however, I prefer Demon's Souls over both of these anyway.
- DS1 scimitar 2h is better and faster, the 2h swings are weird in DS2.
- Sometimes the character movement looks a bit funny in DS2
- The recovery speed is indeed true, but I'm not sure it's a good or a bad thing. I think lighter weapons should have fast recovery and slow weapons have low recovery, ideally. I think once again Demon's Souls did it best.

The longsword has the same moveset as the broadsword, they both fall under the "straight sword" category.

The scimitar run attack in DS1 is also in DS2, it just happens if you press R1 instead of R2, if I recall correctly. I can't remember for sure but I think it's in there, so imagine the same attack except poorly animated.

The hand axe is actually one of the worst along the halberd for me, it's completely "plastic toy" in DS2, I don't understand how in the world it's worse in DS1. Try to imagine the DS1 character cutting a tree with the axe and then imagine the same for the DS2 guy.
I think your criticism fails to see how the character in DS is dealing with the particular weight of the weapon, something that basically doesn't exist in DS2. It's not that he "struggles" with the halberd with one hand or "doesn't know how to use" the morning star, it's that they are vastly different kind of weapons and therefore require a different kind of swing. In DS2 he swings the morning star as it were a sword or some other weapon.

 

[Neoweee]

The longsword has the same moveset as the broadsword, they both fall under the "straight sword" category.

Move sets can still differ within a category, at least in Dark Souls 2. Greatswords and Ultras, for example, are all over the place with what attacks are mapped to which stance/button.

 

[DaciaJC]

The longsword has the same moveset as the broadsword, they both fall under the "straight sword" category.

Not true. The DS2 longsword, for example, has a 2H thrust R2, whereas the same attack for the broadsword is a wide horizontal sweep.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

The longsword has the same moveset as the broadsword, they both fall under the "straight sword" category.

What? No. They are the same category but still have different movesets. Even in DS1, the r2 is different for the broadsword, it's the sweeping slash you saw in the DS2 footage instead of a thrust.

Another example is the Dark Sword. It is a straight sword too, but it has a different moveset than the longsword. There's plenty of other such examples.

How can I take your video seriously when you can't even get basic facts straight?

The scimitar run attack in DS1 is also in DS2, it just happens if you press R1 instead of R2, if I recall correctly. I can't remember for sure but I think it's in there, so imagine the same attack except poorly animated.

Wha? There is no running r2 in Dark Souls 1 or 2 (though there is in Bloodborne). How can you not even know something so basic about the controls? Holy shit... xD

Besides your own video shows clearly what the running attack animation is like. Now you're saying "well it's not actually that, it's something that's probably worse"? Ridiculous. You are making zero sense and contradicting your own footage.

The hand axe is actually one of the worst along the halberd for me, it's completely "plastic toy" in DS2

Really? Have you looked at the DS1 swing? The r1 looks like he's waving the toy in front of his face. The follow-up attack in the combo at least looks like a cut, but the standard r1 is terrible. The DS2 animation has more weight which is why it's so bizarre to see people complaining that DS2 animations have no weight. Like, wot.

Plus the fact that they don't even combo. For that alone, DS1 mace/morningstar is useless, really. It's a much better weapon in DS2.

 

[Nev]

Move sets can still differ within a category, at least in Dark Souls 2. Greatswords and Ultras, for example, are all over the place with what attacks are mapped to which stance/button.

Not true. The DS2 longsword, for example, has a 2H thrust R2, whereas the same attack for the broadsword is a wide horizontal sweep.

Well some of the attacks are not exactly the same, the greatswords I used also have different 2H R2, but it's one move out of like 6. I'm in early game of DS2 so I had to work with what I had. They still have the same moveset bar one or two special R2 moves.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Well some of the attacks are not exactly the same, the greatswords I used also have different 2H R2, but it's one move out of like 6. I'm in early game of DS2 so I had to work with what I had. They still have the same moveset bar one or two special R2 moves.

There's a longsword in the very first area of Dark Souls 2 (the fire longsword). Excuses excuses... xD

 

[Nev]

What? No. They are the same category but still have different movesets. Even in DS1, the r2 is different for the broadsword, it's the sweeping slash you saw in the DS2 footage instead of a thrust.

It's one move out of 6, I didn't have the broadsword in DS1 so I used the one that shares 90% of the moveset. Same for the greatsword in DS2, I don't have the exact counterpart in that game.

Wha? There is no running r2 in Dark Souls 1 or 2 (though there is in Bloodborne). How can you not even know something so basic about the controls? Holy shit... xD

How can I take your video seriously when you can't even get basic facts straight?

I was confusing the 2H run R1 with the 1H run R1, I was assuming the normal R2 attack of one handed scimitar in DS2 started with the one in the video so I was thinking I just used R2 instead of R1 when running and that's why it ended up like that, but it's the second attack. I know my basic facts thank you, how about you learn how to participate in a discussion without sounding condescending, arrogant and overly defensive? Could do wonders for you.

Besides your own video shows clearly what the running attack animation is like. Now you're saying "well it's not actually that, it's something that's probably worse"? Ridiculous. You are making zero sense and contradicting your own footage.

Refer above. I also tested it right now and in fact the running 2H attack in DS2 is the basically the same as the DS1 one handed run attack that you find "pathetic" except the character holds it with two hands.

Really? Have you looked at the DS1 swing? The r1 looks like he's waving the toy in front of his face. The follow-up attack in the combo at least looks like a cut, but the standard r1 is terrible. The DS2 animation has more weight which is why it's so bizarre to see people complaining that DS2 animations have no weight. Like, wot.

I can't believe someone thinks the weapons in DS2 have a better feeling of weight, but this is subjective so to each their own.

Plus the fact that they don't even combo. For that alone, DS1 mace/morningstar is useless, really. It's a much better weapon in DS2.

It's a glorified sword in DS2 while in DS1 it's a hard hitting weapon, which is the main purpose of the weapon type anyways.

 

[D Bo Chops]

Couldnt agree more. Every one of your points is exactly what i felt when playing. And god damn was i hyped for that game... only to be 100% disappointed. I also dont understand how people are saying its the best in the series. Played through it once and couldnt bother to go very far into NG+. whereas i put thousands of hours combined into the other games. Also i hear Scholar of the First Sin is every shittier with tacked on enemies and even worse "artificial difficulty".. as much as i hate that term.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I have always noticed how inferior the weapons animations were in DS2 and not just that

1- swings don't feel half as satisfying as they were in DS1

2- they don't have the sense of weight that DS1 weapons had

3- the weapon move sets are less varied between different weapons. for example they did bring back some black knights weapons but they didn't have that unique R2 special attack for some reason instead of that R2 attack wasn't different from some other weapons in terms of animation iirc.

DS1 is was and still a beast.

Exactly, is not that DS2 has poor animations, is just that DS has some of the best animations in the genre.

 

[Murkas]

Exactly, is not that DS2 has poor animations, is just that DS has some of the best animations in the genre.

I've said it before but the biggest difference in animation quality for me is getting launched into the air in DS1 compared to DS2. So bad

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It's one move out of 6, I didn't have the broadsword in DS1 so I used the one that shares 90% of the moveset. Same for the greatsword in DS2, I don't have the exact counterpart in that game.

If you want to make a video comparison the least you could do is compare the same weapons. Both are easily accessible early in the game.

I know my basic facts thank you, how about you learn how to participate in a discussion without sounding condescending, arrogant and overly defensive? Could do wonders for you.

If you get facts wrong I will correct you, and if you get them wrong in some arrogant post declaring you have proven something with a video (and calling DS2 a "clone game", like, really?) when in fact you make invalid comparisons and get confused about something as basic as the controls, well, you set the tone, really.

Refer above. I also tested it right now and in fact the running 2H attack in DS2 is the basically the same as the DS1 one handed run attack that you find "pathetic" except the character holds it with two hands.

Well you have to compare 1h attacks with 1h attacks, and 2h attacks with 2h attacks. It's entirely possible that the scimitar 2h attack in DS2 sucks, but it's not my fault if your "proof" video is faulty. If your video makes invalid comparisons and still you decide to draw conclusions from it, don't be surprised if someone can point out the flaws in it.

I can't believe someone thinks the weapons in DS2 have a better feeling of weight, but this is subjective so to each their own.

I didn't say that. It really depends on the weapons. Some are better in one game, others are identical or similar enough in both, and others are better in the other game.

It's a glorified sword in DS2 while in DS1 it's a hard hitting weapon, which is the main purpose of the weapon type anyways.

lol, the mace is like one of the best weapons in DS2, everyone agrees on that. Its strike damage works wonders on heavy armoured enemies, its combo is useful, and it can last you the whole game. No one ever used the mace in DS1 because it just sucks, even if you think the swinging animations are more realistic. Which, hey, they might very well be, but it won't do the player any good if they have crappy stats or if they just aren't useful.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I've said it before but the biggest difference in animation quality for me is getting launched into the air in DS1 compared to DS2. So bad

I mean, just look at the video an the sword strong attacks in DS2, the second swing is like the guy suddenly has a stick and makes an incredibly weightless attack even if he has the inertia of the first strike against him.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Oh, something I noticed about the halberd in DS1 vs DS2. I don't know much about medieval European halberd combat, so I don't know how "realistic" it is, but I do know a little bit about naginata fighting. And the posture and stance while attacking in DS2 reminds me a bit of that. In DS1 the user lunges forward with shoulders completely hunched, whereas they keep their back straight in DS2. That's fairly typical of naginata fighting (and kendo as well), where the strength of the movement comes from the lower body (footwork and hips/centre of gravity) and wrist motions, instead of upper body (shoulders and arms).

There is no naginata-like in Dark Souls 1 and 2, the black knight halberd is the closest thing (though it's still closer to a glaive I think). In Demon's Souls we had the war scythe which was pretty much a naginata. I hope DS3 brings it back, I loved that weapon.

Now one can still prefer one over the other, I don't care. But I found that interesting. Wasn't DS2 mocapped? Perhaps the mocap actor had some naginata or kendo training.

 

[Nev]

If you want to make a video comparison the least you could do is compare the same weapons. Both are easily accessible early in the game.

As I said, I worked with what I had. With the broadsword vs longsword and the greatswords I'm not making a completely accurate comparison because some of the 2H strong attacks are different, that's why I named it "straight sword" and "greatsword". I was not trying to make a strict comparison of particular weapons, and I think using weapons that share most of the moveset except for one or two attacks was enough to achieve what I was trying to do.

If you get facts wrong I will correct you, and if you get them wrong in some arrogant post declaring you have proven something with a video (and calling DS2 a "clone game", like, really?) when in fact you make invalid comparisons and get confused about something as basic as the controls, well, you set the tone, really.

When did I declare that I had proven something as if I had opened the eyes of people? I said it was enough to reaffirm my opinion and that everyone else could draw their own conclusion. Did you ever read it properly? Of course you didn't. Calling DS2 a clone game was part of my opinion. You're setting the aggressive tone by saying things like "get your facts straight", I made an opinion without calling anybody out or attacking others.

Well you have to compare 1h attacks with 1h attacks, and 2h attacks with 2h attacks. It's entirely possible that the scimitar 2h attack in DS2 sucks, but it's not my fault if your "proof" video is faulty. If your video makes invalid comparisons and still you decide to draw conclusions from it, don't be surprised if someone can point out the flaws in it.

The run attacks for the 1H scimitar in the video are both the 1H attacks of their respective game, I confused the attack of the Dark Souls 2 footage for the normal R2 because it's the same attack as the R2 combo, so I assumed I recorded it wrongly by using R2 while running instead of R1 (but it was in fact the R1 run attack, just that it's the same as some R2 attack and that's what caused the confusion for me), so the video is fine and it was just me being confused here. The thing that is missing is the 2H run attack for both games, so I'm not favoring one over the other.

 

[Keinu]

In DS1 the animation was hand-animatied and in DS2 they were motion-captured. That is why they are different. I have no issues with DS2 animation and think some looks better than DS1 and vice versa. A personal preference for sure, but how you come to the conclusion that "the gameplay in DS2 is a severe downgrade" based on this is kinda weird.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I wouldn't say that the gameplay was downgraded, and I can see how some people prefers DS2 movesets and new additions, but certainly DS2 feels off or at least not as satisfying as DS, regarding combat feedback. For me.

 

[Sub_Level]

No Mans Wharf was excellent. One of the best co-op areas in the series. Lots of nooks and crannies with treasures and enemies. Loved lighting it up too with Pharos lockstone.

 

[afternoon delight]

I wouldn't say that the gameplay was downgraded, and I can see how some people prefers DS2 movesets and new additions, but certainly DS2 feels off or at least not as satisfying as DS, regarding combat feedback. For me.

I believe this is a level, clear response that many identify with.

 

[DoubleTake]

I looked around and I didn't find what I was looking for so I went out and made a video comparing the weapon animations of some basic weapons from both Dark Souls and Dark Souls II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rFXpdNYgM

The weapons are: straight swords, greatswords, scimitar, hand axe, morning star, spear and halberd. I also made a quick comparison of the recovery time you have to deal with in each game before you can roll and an attempt to attack behind after a roll.

Seeing the two games side by side I can only confirm what I previously thought: that DS animations, controls and weapons feel is infinitely superior to these of DS2, which looks like:

A) A clone game made by another studio with way lower budget that used too much of that budget in graphics.

B) The game that came before Dark Souls and even Demon's Souls, rough animations due to it being the first version of the formula and having much, much lower budget and zero expectations.

Some weapons in DS2 can barely hold up, but most of them are just embarrassing when compared to the same weapons in DS. I mean, they completely lost the weight feeling of DS's animations and replaced it with some clunky, weird, rushed plastic weapon thing. Worst offenders for me are the halberd and the greatsword. While the DS character is trying to swing powerful weighty weapons resulting in satisfying animations with solid feedback, the DS2 character seems to be trying to figure out how to deal damage with a toy weapon imitation with no weight at all.

Making this has just cemented my stance on the matter: the gameplay in DS2 is a severe downgrade.

But that's my opinion, you can draw your own conclusions, as there's no bias in the video or tricks to favor DS. The attacks that are missing (two or three of the rush attacks) aren't there because I had problems with the Dark Souls footage due to the PC port being absolutely dreadful (that's why there's some stuttering or fps drops in that footage and not in DSII's) so instead of going back to that awful experience again I just didn't include that particular attack, I couldn't be arsed trying to fix the problems with that shitty port any longer. I think it's just the halberd one hand rush attack and the scimitar two hands rush attack, but it might be one more. It's a rush attack for sure though, the rest are all included.

This is an excellent video, but people who dont know what theyre talking about or want so badly to defend Ds2 will say it proves nothing.

Someone tell me how swinging a Halberd back over your head 1 HANDED seems more weighty/effective than struggling to do a forward poke. Dont forget that the DS1 Player only struggles with the Halberd like that if it hits nothing.

Or how doing a 1 handed forward poke with a greatsword and then chaining into a pirouette spin move(now the sword is made of plastic not steel) makes any sense. Real weighty and satisfying for sure.

DS1s animation quality and feel of weight in weapons is way better. Its able to do this and still keep the combat feeling upbeat because you have a shorter attack recovery. Demon's and BB do the same, Ds2 doesnt. Youre correct OP. Dont let the defenders get under your skin. They just cant notice the minutia.

Things like the character shifting weight at the legs and torquing their body to swing a large sword is lost on some people.

 

[Screaming Meat]

And why wouldn't it?

I'd say... probably because it isn't really an "argument" and doesn't further the discussion in any meaningful way.

 

[Listonosh]

Yessss. Another person who sees the light. Good thing the real Dark Souls 2 cones out in April.

This.

Man I really wanted to like DS2, and even tried to like Scholar, but damn the design and layout of enemies, and the enemies in general were just so lazy. Sure the world was varied aesthetically, but it made no sense in the grand scheme of things. DS1 just got everything right, and DS2 just tried to emulate it in all the wrong ways.

 

[EUA]

it's funny how one thing can cause such different reaction.

i mean look at the very first sword, the character in ds1 is waving it around without absolutely any pause in his swings. it's like he's holding a plastic replica in his hands. Does inertia not exist in this world? and wtf is wrong with the hand axe, especially two-handed? there is absolutely zero momentum. swings in ds1 just don't feel natural at all.

But of course i just refuse to see the light. what a tragedy.

btw that recovery part feels sped up a lot in DS1 too. and they wanna make it even faster, cheesus.

aiming behind would make T1000 jelly. The character doesn't turn around after dodge, he just magically transforms.

that whole video is hilarious

 

[Clear]

This.

Man I really wanted to like DS2, and even tried to like Scholar, but damn the design and layout of enemies, and the enemies in general were just so lazy. Sure the world was varied aesthetically, but it made no sense in the grand scheme of things. DS1 just got everything right, and DS2 just tried to emulate it in all the wrong ways.

If you want to be nit-picky about it, there's nowhere in DS2 that's as lazily sketched out as Demon Ruins in DS1. I mean come on, they just plopped down a bunch of Taurus Demons in the middle of a big open area and called it a day. Not to mention that the whole level starts with a gimmick boss that dies in 3 hits, and ends with yet another reskin of the first boss you fight in the game.

Dark Souls is a great game, but its a long, long way from being perfect or above criticism. The main difference I see is that DS2's weaker areas tend to be in the early game, whereas in its predecessor they are near the end.

 

[gogosox82]

it's funny how one thing can cause such different reaction.

i mean look at the very first sword, the character in ds1 is waving it around without absolutely any pause in his swings. it's like he's holding a plastic replica in his hands. Does inertia not exist in this world? and wtf is wrong with the hand axe, especially two-handed? there is absolutely zero momentum. swings in ds1 just don't feel natural at all.

But of course i just refuse to see the light. what a tragedy.

btw that recovery part feels sped up a lot in DS1 too. and they wanna make it even faster, cheesus.

aiming behind would make T1000 jelly. The character doesn't turn around after dodge, he just magically transforms.

that whole video is hilarious

Not sure what your on about. There's definitely a pause between swings in both games with straight swords. DS2 is just more pronounced because the animation is longer for whatever reason.

No what your talking about with the hand axes either. In ds1, when you miss with the hand axe, there's an animation of missing that carries you through the swing. Some people might call that momentum. In ds2, that really doesn't exist. Your character just steps forward but he does that with basically every weapon in the game. Pay close attention to the running attacks with the hand axe, to me the running attack with hand axe feels more realistic in DS1 than the hand axe in ds2. If your running with the hand axe and your right handed, you wouldn't bring it back to your left side and do a horizontal slash. You'd probably do a vertical swing like in DS1. So how is it less natural in DS1 than in DS2?

I don't think its sped up. I just think DS2 is just so slow that it makes DS1 look "sped up' even though its the slowest game out of all of the souls games if we don't include DS2. DS1 is slower than Demons and way slower than BB.

LOL he doesn't magically transform. After the roll he attacks from behind. You can slow it down and check for yourself. This is something you just can't do in DS2 sadly.

 

[Nev]

So I finally managed to find the time to finish this, if anyone cares what my final opinion is:

TL;DR
6.5/10, 7.5/10 if including the DLC.

The game is an extreme disapointment, from the clunky, slow combat to the uninspired and more often than not just plain mediocre level design.

Two DLCs, Sunken King and Iron King are what I expected from a game such as this, they're the only parts that made me feel like I was playing a Souls game of the quality I'm used to. In fact, the difference between those and the main game is so staggering that I couldn't even consider them the same game if it weren't for the poor combat and some clown cars issues that were unfortunately carried over.
The level design is miles ahead of what's in the rest of the game and the bosses can actually be considered as such. Brume Tower in particular had very good level design and was quite enjoyable, much, much more than anything else in the game, along with Shulva. I find it hard to believe the same people who made the rest of the game also made the DLCs.

Maybe they were given the task of making these "challenge rooms" for the DLC that are a complete and absolute disgrace? Because just when I thought the game was giving me some good times with the DLCs, I come upon this stupid cave filled with enemies shooting and assaulting me from everywhere just to end with the worst bosses ever, the fucking gank squad and the smelter demon reskinned. Seriously the gank squad. It is pure garbage, as simple as that. A complete, absolute and utter piece of shit of a "boss". I don't know exactly how I managed to find the motivation to keep trying, but I finally won the fight by cheesing them the whole time (it is actually the only way to win), making them fall to the level below to chase me and hitting them once while they fall, repeating this process for 5 minutes. Such good design, just exactly what I expected from them.

The blue smelter demon and the reskinned Aava can rot waiting for me though, they will remain the only bosses I have not defeated in the franchise, just because I can't be arsed to go through all of the preceding bullshit, and they're reskins anyways.
The brilliant decision of placing an actual enjoyable boss fight (Sir Alonne) behind a pile of vomit of an area full of gangbangs and proyectile shit has to be mentioned too. It's Dark Souls 2 after all I guess.

The rest of the game though? I don't even know where to begin. I won't reiterate how the combat is a severe downgrade or how the game basically forces you to make 1-2 attacks tops in every goddamn fight because the stamina bar is a complete joke. In a game where most encounters are based around throwing packs of enemies with infinite stamina and stability at the player, they decide to nerf endurance to the point where it's basically impossible to attack more than 2 or three times without being severely punished in any boss or mob fight.

Length. I had read everywhere that the game was huge and bigger than the previous games by far. I didn't know 80% of this "hugeness" was filler rubbish in the form of irrelevant, small zones (one corridor small in some cases like the black gulch or just empty spaces with random chests and enemies like the shaded ruins) with complete lack of art direction or any sign of thoughtful, dedicated level design and filled with pointless, baby-mode "bosses" like the skeletons, the two mages or the scorpion chick. The whole thing feels like a level select, there's no cohesion at all and the transitions from place to place make absolutely no sense.

I guess people just prefer a lot of mediocre stuff than some incredibly good stuff. Well "some" anyways; the other games weren't short on content so this argument is just bad. The fact that there are people who actually prefer this amount of uninspired mediocrity to the superbely crafted worlds of Demon, Dark 1 and Bloodborne is just an unfathomable thing to me. It took me 60 hours with 99% completed anyways, and it took me 50 in Demon's and 70 in Dark, so it isn't that much bigger. It certainly isn't better because it might have a few more zones anyways.

I don't want to enter rage mode but oh my fucking merciful god, the shrine of amana. When I thought nothing could top the "challenge room" from the Iron King DLC, I found the worst mandatory area ever created for these games. Constant homing magic shit from everywhere, falling to deep water, invisible, everchasing frogfuckers, random giant knights, a cyclops, a fucking dragonrider, groups of gangster clerics with a healing bitch... Go **** yourselves seriously. I have never been more tempted to just drop the fcking game for good. Disgusting.

Now I wanted to like some locations like Lost Bastille, Earthen Peak or Iron Keep, they brought a glimpse of Souls goodness, but the fucking clown car approach to every encounter in this game just hinders any possible enjoyement. Seriously, get out of here with those alonne knights that aggro even from behind walls to form a group of 4 katana spamming knights and two archers shooting from three different directions, just fuck off. When the most enjoyable area in your game is the Blighttown/Defilement clone you know you fucked it up.

The definition of "hard" for From Software's Team B, up here.

But there's tons of different enemies and zones! Variety!! Yeah, tons of uninspired areas that you can clear in 15 minutes filled with enemies with NES-era AI. Honestly, I'd rather have one latria than five tseldoras or undead crypts.

One shielded undead from the Undead Burg in DaS1 has better AI and is more fun to fight than most enemies in this game including some bosses, and I'm totally serious. Why have hundred of enemy types when their AI is so bad and basic that you have to throw groups of them at the same time to make it challenging?
Some people say Dark Souls relies too much on backstabs? I swear to god backstabbing a normal undead there is miles harder than doing so in... just about every goddamn enemy in this game? You just have to walk -not even roll- behind and backstab the hell out of that miserable AI. It's the best strategy for every enemy that can be backstabbed, including all of the DLC humanoid enemies and like 85% of the enemies in the main game. The AI is embarrassing. But hey, there's a lot of different looking enemies!

The fights in this game are just not fun, they're an absolute chore, no matter what you do you will most likely aggro 3 enemies at the same time (because fighting one alone clearly shows how poor their AI is, they're completely worthless unless they're with their shitty buddies or they're a giant. Oh wait, giants like to go around with their friends too), and these enemies are most of the times unstoppable knights with infinite stamina helped by proyectile throwing shitlords. Jesus christ, seriously.

The bosses are a complete joke. They're not only incredibly, insultingly easy (the only one I had "trouble" with, trouble meaning I needed more than three tries, was the medusa woman, and that's because I fought with the poison pool, so go figure), they're also extremely forgettable and awfully boring from an artistic point of view. Most of them are just big knights with a sword, the only one I liked was the frog-zombie.
Seriously, they're that bad. I can't understand how and why they're so incredibly easy and basic. The bosses in the DLC are actual bosses, the rest are undescriptably bad in every possible way. The last boss haha oh my god, she was way easier than most mini-bosses from the other games and even in this one. What a total joke.

The graphics are quite good though, too bad the art direction is so bad they can barely shine. You can find gorgeous places like the dragon shrine or majula and then completely dreadful ones like the shaded ruins, tseldora or aldia's keep.

So all in all, undoubtedly the worst Souls game by one thousand miles. I always strongly recommend Dark Souls to people who like videogames but haven't played it, and I would absolutely not recommend Dark Souls II to anyone, including fans of the other games. Only the DLC if it was a standalone downloadable game. It really is a shame, and the fact that "critics" put this above the rest is sickening, what a sad, sad scene. I thought the GTA IV situation of it being above GTA V for critics couldn't be topped, but this being higher in metacritic than Dark Souls or Demon's Souls makes me want to never again trust a review from someone who earns money for it and just read what users think.

PD: It's the only game where I was so mad at the cheap bullshit -in this case the incredibly stupid Lautrec of the game, a cleric woman with 5000000HP who spams a oneshotting miracle- that I said "fuck everything in this crap game":

Not that I cared anyways because the NPCs are as numerous as they are uninteresting and trivial. I only liked the cat.