WadiumArcadium
Member
What? He said he's watched Jedi and the entire OT now.. There were no clear prequel spoilers in my post (no names anyway).
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LTTP: Star Wars Saga [Updated as I watch]
- Thread starter Ray Wonder
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What? He said he's watched Jedi and the entire OT now.. There were no clear prequel spoilers in my post (no names anyway).
Ugh, I love Jedi but I hate having to cringe my way through that scene. Terrible, my personal vote for worst change in the Special Editions.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Hahaha I forgot about the music scene. I laughed through the whole thing. So goofy.
BFIB
Member
Jedi Rocks is pretty much hated by everyone.
However I can appreciate the actress that plays Oola reprised her role for the 97 special edition to film the extended Jabba scene in the Rancor pit.
Plus you get Boba laying the charm for a split second.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I really liked Han and Leia's conversation:
Han's face made me laugh.
I honestly thought Boba Fett's role would be bigger. I understand he had important roles to the plot of the movies, but I was thinking there would be more character development with him.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Oh, pardon me, I misread it. Never mind, sorry about that!
WadiumArcadium
Member
No problem. I was worried I had spoiled something for a minute.
This isn't true I would say. A lot more people prefer the majority of the SE changes than you would suspect.
And yeah, I love the flirty Fett bit. So good.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
You could say Ray is... full of wonder.
I hope these people are being monitored.
dragonyeuw
Member
Does anyone really spend a great deal of time being phased by the various events that occur?
In ep1 her people are dying all around her but she still has time to change her outfit for every scene.
In ep2 Padme has threats on her life. Meanwhile back at the ranch, she has plenty of time to frolic about in the field, discuss sand, and cock-block Anakin in front of the fireplace. Anakin admits to Padme that he slaughtered women and children. Her response? Comforts him in the same scene, then marries him at the end of the movie.
In ep 3, WAR!! But there she is, awkwardly flirting with Anakin on the balcony while playing with her hair with the galaxy crumbling around her.
Heh.
In ep2 Padme has threats on her life. Meanwhile back at the ranch, she has plenty of time to frolic about in the field, discuss sand, and cock-block Anakin in front of the fireplace. Anakin admits to Padme that he slaughtered women and children. Her response? Comforts him in the same scene, then marries him at the end of the movie.
In ep 3, WAR!! But there she is, awkwardly flirting with Anakin on the balcony while playing with her hair with the galaxy crumbling around her.
Heh.
Go to a Star Wars Celebration or a Star Wars message board.
Fans generally like most of the media.Go to a Star Wars Celebration or a Star Wars message board.
Yeah well, rabid hardcore fans of anything will accept whatever's given them. Lucas could've added a 30-minute scene of Yoda taking a dump and they'd say it was great.
BFIB
Member
I can see where some of the additions are well liked.
I love most of the changes on the DVD editions. The best ones IMO.
You get the arubesh dialect added in
Removed Lukes scream at the end of Empire
Jabba looks halfway decent in IV (though the scene needs to be removed)
Most of the CGI is a lot cleaner
McDiarmond as Palatine instead of the old woman in Empire.
Boba Fetts lines being redone with Temuera Morrison for continuity.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Only if he flushed the toilet afterwards.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
It kinda is a big deal to first timers too though, at least the ones who didn't watch the prequels first (which they shouldn't.) When I marathoned the movies with my GF, who hadn't seen the end of Jedi before, her reaction was "Who the hell is that?" and I had to explain the whole situation to her and how they changed it, and even she thought that was stupid. Confusing the audience is a bad thing for a movie to do, and thats exactly what that scene now does to anyone not familiar with the prequels. The original actor made it obvious, cause we had literally just seen him all scarred up in the suit like two minutes earlier. Even as a little kid I instantly recognized it. But now, without watching the prequels first, its just some completely random dude. It legitimately breaks the scene for a large number of first time viewers.
There's still quite the difference between liking those changes and liking Jedi Rocks.
BFIB
Member
Nobody should like Jedi Rocks.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
It seemed clear to me, because he just died like 2 minutes earlier. Then he fades in next to the two other Jedis who died.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
And you had no prior knowledge of his role in the prequels? Never even saw pictures of the actor that cemented his identity in the back of your mind?
Good on you for making that jump in logic then. But a lot of people don't.
I think it is pretty clear based on the fact of well, who else would it be? It's clearly going to be Anakin who pops up based on the story.
And now post-2004 when it was changed the prequels are so ingrained into pop culture, the image of Clone Wars era Anakin is something everyone who watches these movies is going to experience at some point so its a moot point.
And now post-2004 when it was changed the prequels are so ingrained into pop culture, the image of Clone Wars era Anakin is something everyone who watches these movies is going to experience at some point so its a moot point.
BFIB
Member
We can go further into this, but not until after you see Episode III.
Lucas states a reason for Anakin reverting to his younger self.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
You need to think about it from the perspective of somebody who isn't really into Star Wars. Someone who doesn't understand the whole jedi force ghost thing, and who has never seen that actor before. A legitimate first time viewer.
Sure, they can make the assumption based on context, but its an unclear one. "Well, that must be Vader, but why the hell is he a teenager?"
The old actor we saw in the suit, so there is absolutely no question of his identity.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Hahaha damn. I can't wait to watch the prequels.
And why it is vital you watch The Clone Wars series after. It is pretty much impossible to watch all 6 seasons and not be rooting for Anakin after that.
WadiumArcadium
Member
He's a sulky big head but I've never felt inclined to smash my TV because of him.
BFIB
Member
This right here.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Well, yes. The first film was never booked as a trilogy so its self-contained arc goes from complete randomness to complete certainty over your fate. Helplessness to dominance. Repression to glory. The contrasting tone of the film supports this transition. This is why all the dark bits are at the start and the worse we see in the last 1/4 of the film is Porkins untimely, yet valiant death.
S'all good.
dragonyeuw
Member
On the force ghost thing, don't know if this is spoilers, but just in case:
None of it makes sense. When Ben Kenobi passed into the force, the next time he pops up as a ghost, he's the old man we remember. If you have the ability to come back in whatever form you like, why didn't he come back as the Ewan Mcgregor Obi-wan?
So, how Anakin died in ROTJ, the original actor popping up at the very end makes sense by what has already been established. But then, one could argue that if we take that logic literally, force ghost Anakin should have been burnt and scarred as he was when he died. So really, we can poke the force ghost logic full of holes all-around if we wanted to. Am I OK with Hayden Anakin at the end? Not really, but I'm not sure it makes any more or less sense if we're going to treat the subject seriously.
So, how Anakin died in ROTJ, the original actor popping up at the very end makes sense by what has already been established. But then, one could argue that if we take that logic literally, force ghost Anakin should have been burnt and scarred as he was when he died. So really, we can poke the force ghost logic full of holes all-around if we wanted to. Am I OK with Hayden Anakin at the end? Not really, but I'm not sure it makes any more or less sense if we're going to treat the subject seriously.
I wonder how it is when the special editions are the first versions you watch.
There was a little discussion over the Ep. IV Jabba scene (probably my least favorite SE addition out of a lot of annoyances with the updates), and the thing that annoys the hell out of me every time -- more than anything else -- when I see A New Hope is Boba Fett's brief "Look, it's me, Boba Fett" turn to the camera at the end of the scene.
(BTW, I didn't click through the whole thread to see more talk about it, but I see there is here -- a YouTube comparison of theatre vs. home-release CGI Jabba... I think they did good work in de-cartooning him a bit)
To me, that's just the worst kind of pandering to the audience. I guess maybe to a new viewer, it's totally unnoticeable... especially if you've really avoided the characters.
Refresh my memory: On the DVD releases of the special editions, how does Return end? Is it still a flash across the galaxy to huge, cheering crowds? (which have maybe been watching on CCTV for the moment the emperor and Vader die?)
There was a little discussion over the Ep. IV Jabba scene (probably my least favorite SE addition out of a lot of annoyances with the updates), and the thing that annoys the hell out of me every time -- more than anything else -- when I see A New Hope is Boba Fett's brief "Look, it's me, Boba Fett" turn to the camera at the end of the scene.
(BTW, I didn't click through the whole thread to see more talk about it, but I see there is here -- a YouTube comparison of theatre vs. home-release CGI Jabba... I think they did good work in de-cartooning him a bit)
To me, that's just the worst kind of pandering to the audience. I guess maybe to a new viewer, it's totally unnoticeable... especially if you've really avoided the characters.
Refresh my memory: On the DVD releases of the special editions, how does Return end? Is it still a flash across the galaxy to huge, cheering crowds? (which have maybe been watching on CCTV for the moment the emperor and Vader die?)
Return of the Jedi has had the celebration of multiple planets since 1997.
I was the same but it quickly becomes a fun show, there's a few episodes in a row that make you remember the stuff you hate about the prequels ( Jar Jar, THE SENATE) but it works for two reasons the prequels don't, the main characters are likeable and fun. They manage to make you give a shit about young obi wan and anakin in way that makes the series a better prequel for the OT than the films themselves.
BFIB
Member
Boba wasn't even in the original scene. He was added into the Jabba scene.
As for the DVD versions, it's mostly the same. One new planet added in, and on Coruscant the Senate building and Jedi temple are added in.
SCReuter
Member
The SE Jabba was so bad looking. The 2004 one was way better:
'97 model looks more like Jabba, though.
Duane Cunningham
Member
And I assume everyone knows this, but here's what Jabba originally looked like in that scene:
It was cut, of course and only added back in for the special edition in 97 with CG Jabba added on top of him (later refined for the DVD release).
It was cut, of course and only added back in for the special edition in 97 with CG Jabba added on top of him (later refined for the DVD release).
Spieler Eins
Member
It's a contender for worst, but I think I hate Anakin ghost the most.
The SE Jabba was so bad looking. The 2004 one was way better:
They're both shit for different reasons. And oh god why couldn't they just cut away for a second when Ford went behind the other actor, instead of having Solo step on his tail.
There's lots of stuff I didn't even notice without the internet (including Han shot first) and some changes I actually like in the SE's, but some of that shit is just so blatantly out of place.
I'd prefer that you don't create strawmen. The conversation was about the acting and Fisher shows far less emotional range, as in close to absolute none, than Portman.
I did say that Star Wars is not interested in humans, the characters being barely phased by anything reflects that. But you know, your examples, as silly as they are, underline my point. There is some emotional range, some actual acting involved. As bad as it is, its still better.
dragonyeuw
Member
Its hard to take your own examples seriously when you raise the sextoy of a giant snail as one of them. But since its admittedly all 'bad' acting, is there much need to debate about it? I think you need to rewatch some of those scenes in aotc if bad acting is your main argument.
At the end of the day, Princesa Leia is still a more dynamic and interesting character.
I did say the acting is better. And what makes Leias character more dynamic and interesting?
dragonyeuw
Member
Hardly better, and in some cases incredibly nauseating. I cant point to any scene in the OT involving Leia where I outright cringed from her acting. So, if your argument is that Natalie displayed more range, I guess you're right. From bad to mediocre would definitely show more range than just mediocre.
What makes her more dynamic? I dont know, maybe because I can actually describe her personality rather clearly. She had a sarcastic spice to her character that played well off Ford's Solo. Which to me is a sign that the acting was at least competent enough to sell their relationship, which is something I cant say of Anakin-Padme.
Sorcerer
Member
Apologies I thought we were only dealing with OT here.
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George's writing is awful, no one is spared in the prequels.
Portman could not really shine in her role. She goes from being a strong leader to unbelievably dependent and crazy in love with Anakin, who was 9 when they met and who she barely has any interest in most of Clones. She dies of heartbreak, over Anakin
George's writing is awful, no one is spared in the prequels.
I would say its no acting vs atleast trying to do something out of a Lucas script.
Fair enough. Mind you, it tells you something that traits of sarcasm make her a already more compelling character.
dragonyeuw
Member
If there was no acting on Carrie's part, we wouldnt have been sold on the Han-Leia relationship. Unless you can think of well-known onscreen duos that were carried completely by one person? Because for the famous onscreen couples that come to my mind, each side was carrying their own weight.
More personality traits? How about strong-willed. Fiery. Fearless. If you can think up 2-3 distinct character traits for Padme, color me impressed. Leia was a better character in better films. The acting isnt anything to write home about in either case to make it a point of debate.
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