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Masahiro Sakurai: There's no guarantee I'll keep making games after Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman

In the latest Famitsu column, Masahiro Sakurai mentioned how the global pandemic has essentially delayed the presentation of a new Super Smash Bros. Ultimate fighter with a certain publisher and other negative effects on the game development industry.

Of course, that wasn't all that was discussed by Sakurai during the column. While speaking with Yamamoto of Famitsu, Sakurai mentioned that he currently doesn't have any plans after development on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's DLC has wrapped up.

When asked about whether or not Sakurai plays western games, Sakurai responded. "Of course I do. Overseas have a lot of games with photorealistic graphics, and there's really no way to beat that, so I feel like you have to overcome those games in other areas instead. You have to beat your rivals in some way, so if you don't have something in your game which people cannot find anywhere else, they're not going to buy it."

"That's how I approach game development whenever I start a new project," continued Sakurai. "Though, honestly, there's no guarantee I'll keep making games after this. Right now, all I'm thinking about is the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC development. Once that's done, I actually have absolutely nothing lined up."

Before the global outbreak, it was estimated that the Fighters Pass Vol. 2 would be completed by December 2021. It's currently unconfirmed how these plans will be affected by the current events.

At the moment, Sakurai is unsure if the series will continue after DLC has wrapped up. Notably, Sakurai is adamant about seeing the project through as it began as the final mission given to him by the late Satoru Iwata.

Even if the Super Smash Bros. series should continue, Sakurai believes that the "Everyone is Here" theme will only be able to happen just this one time. He's also alluded to the possibility that there might someday be an entry that he's not involved in.
 

LordKasual

Banned
He's said this so many times now that i'm honestly tired of hearing the shit.

And the amount of involvement Sakurai has with Smash stopped being charming years ago....honestly it just seems like the symptom of some bad JP management practices, similar to what plagues companies like Square Enix. I don't feel like any Smash game has needed Sakuari to slave over it since Brawl.

But most importantly, I feel like Sakurai's specific prejudice towards competitive play in Smash has been holding it back for a long time. (IMO.)
 

its_Ditz

Member
But most importantly, I feel like Sakurai's specific prejudice towards competitive play in Smash has been holding it back for a long time. (IMO.)

Fair take and I can see where you're coming from. The way I see it, Smash is successful and beloved because he largely ignores competitive play and focuses on creating an accessible game for everyone. He himself stated several times even that he sees Smash not just as a fighting game (even in a casual way) but as a Celebration of gaming.

The competitive scene doesn't care about having +80 characters, +100 Stages and +900 Music tracks. They'd be fine with no items, Fox only, Final Destination. If you reduce Smash to just that mostly, it'll become a shallow experience. But it is so beloved and well received due to all these things, not just because it is a great brawler.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Fair take and I can see where you're coming from. The way I see it, Smash is successful and beloved because he largely ignores competitive play and focuses on creating an accessible game for everyone. He himself stated several times even that he sees Smash not just as a fighting game (even in a casual way) but as a Celebration of gaming.

The competitive scene doesn't care about having +80 characters, +100 Stages and +900 Music tracks. They'd be fine with no items, Fox only, Final Destination. If you reduce Smash to just that mostly, it'll become a shallow experience. But it is so beloved and well received due to all these things, not just because it is a great brawler.

This is where I dislike Sakurai for even making this a thing, because it is not (and never has been) true. There is not a single competitive fighting game scene that enjoys a game where the same 2-3 characters dominate the scene. It's the sign of bad balance and the beginning of the death of a game, and now that everything is Esports, it makes for boring tournaments.

Melee was the most technical game in the series, but I don't recall any casual players hating the game because it was "too technical". It was just the latest Smash game, and it was amazing. The beauty of Smash is that you decide how YOU want to play the game. Players have always been able to make the game less competitive simply by changing the rules, but it wasn't until Brawl (and Sakurai's intentional war on competitive play) that the game started ACTIVELY changing SPECIFICALLY to remove the possibility of competition.

Smash Ultimate was popular with the competitive scene (including Melee players) because the roster changes were FINALLY directly aimed at balancing out the characters competitively....which doesn't only make the game better for competitive players, it makes the game better for EVERYONE.


If Sakurai simply ignored competitive play and balance, i'd at least be okay with it...but the fact that he has deliberately designed Brawl / Smash 4 in SPITE of competitive play is the stupidest thing ever.
 
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Thurible

Member
Though it'll be a bit sad when he stops working on the series, I completely understand wanting to work on other projects or even doing something not gaming related. Plus, you always hear stories of the guy practically working himself to death on these games to the point where it even may affect his physical health. It seems like he has always been doing something smash related for the past several years.
 

Eevee86

Member
He's said this so many times now that i'm honestly tired of hearing the shit.

And the amount of involvement Sakurai has with Smash stopped being charming years ago....honestly it just seems like the symptom of some bad JP management practices, similar to what plagues companies like Square Enix. I don't feel like any Smash game has needed Sakuari to slave over it since Brawl.

But most importantly, I feel like Sakurai's specific prejudice towards competitive play in Smash has been holding it back for a long time. (IMO.)
It's weird that you think that would change if Sakurai wasn't involved.
 
Don’t blame him. The Smash competitive community is horrid. Imagine telling the creator of a series his game is different than what he envisioned. Sakurai is a stronger man than I because I would have told all for all the “fans” to go fuck themselves.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Nice maybe nintendo starts to invest in some good games then.

giphy.gif
 

Jubenhimer

Member
But most importantly, I feel like Sakurai's specific prejudice towards competitive play in Smash has been holding it back for a long time. (IMO.)

He has no prejudice against the competitive community. That's just a lie spouted by fans who were butthurt about Brawl not being like Melee. Sakurai is fine with competitive play. His stance is that Smash wasn't designed as solely a competitive fighter.
 

Jubenhimer

Member
but it wasn't until Brawl (and Sakurai's intentional war on competitive play) that the game started ACTIVELY changing SPECIFICALLY to remove the possibility of competition.
If Sakurai simply ignored competitive play and balance, i'd at least be okay with it...but the fact that he has deliberately designed Brawl / Smash 4 in SPITE of competitive play is the stupidest thing ever.

Also false. Brawl was the way it was because Sakurai felt it would work better for the Wii audience. Plus, the limitations of the Wii Remote control scheme made some techniques impractical. In the case of Smash 4, it was mostly hardware limitations that held it back. The 3DS game needed to be the same as the Wii U game, which meant same physics and everything.

This notion that every change Sakurai makes to Smash is out of spite is one of the biggest lies in the Smash community.
 

jts

...hate me...
The game should just continue in the next system with a GaaS subscription model with all the busy work being done by Namco under the direction of a Sakurai-approved Nintendo guy.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Also false. Brawl was the way it was because Sakurai felt it would work better for the Wii audience. Plus, the limitations of the Wii Remote control scheme made some techniques impractical. In the case of Smash 4, it was mostly hardware limitations that held it back. The 3DS game needed to be the same as the Wii U game, which meant same physics and everything.

This notion that every change Sakurai makes to Smash is out of spite is one of the biggest lies in the Smash community.

He has no prejudice against the competitive community. That's just a lie spouted by fans who were butthurt about Brawl not being like Melee. Sakurai is fine with competitive play. His stance is that Smash wasn't designed as solely a competitive fighter.

No, it's obvious.

Look, Sakurai isn't stupid, he used to play competitive fighting games. Which is why Melee ended up the way it did, and how Brawl ended up the way it did.

To anyone who actually plays competitive fighting games on an above average level, the changes Sakurai has made to Smash since Melee have all been ways of mitigating depth and flattening out the skill ceiling of the game. And the reason its obvious is because Sakurai isn't the only one doing it these days, he's just the most egregious with it. And honestly Brawl isn't even the biggest culprit because it still had decent competitive viability, barring Metaknight. But Tripping was DELIBERATELY put in the game to weaken the competitive aspect of the game.

Smash 4 was even worse than brawl. Nearly all of the depth of the characters was removed (just look at characters like Falco, Toon Link, PIT for christs sake) , Rage was added, shield mechanics were destroyed, rolling was buffed to hilarious levels......It's not that he's been ruining the game, for casuals none of this will ever matter. But for competitive play, this resulted in Smash 4 being extremely stagnant.

And, as proof of this, just look at the crazy reception Ultimate got from both the competitive (including melee) and casual crowds alike.....the VAST MAJORITY of the system changes were DELIBERATELY put in to make the game more competitively viable, and EVERYONE benefitted from it.

Where are the "struggling casuals"? Where are the competitive players ruining smash?

If Sakurai didn't have a vendetta against competitive play since Melee, this would have happened over a decade ago and the series would have been MUCH farther than it is right now.


People always talk like Brawl was where Sakurai ruined smash...it wasn't, not by a longshot. Brawl was EXTREMELY technical, it was just slower. Smash 4 is where the series took a nosedive.
 
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Jubenhimer

Member
No, it's obvious.

Look, Sakurai isn't stupid, he used to play competitive fighting games. Which is why Melee ended up the way it did, and how Brawl ended up the way it did.

To anyone who actually plays competitive fighting games on an above average level, the changes Sakurai has made to Smash since Melee have all been ways of mitigating depth and flattening out the skill ceiling of the game. And the reason its obvious is because Sakurai isn't the only one doing it these days, he's just the most egregious with it. And honestly Brawl isn't even the biggest culprit because it still had decent competitive viability, barring Metaknight. But Tripping was DELIBERATELY put in the game to weaken the competitive aspect of the game.

Yes, Sakurai always designed Smash to have a sense of depth underneath its simple surface. But he's explained multiple times that Brawl was changed the way it was because of the nature of the Wii as a platform. Where a slower, more party focused fighter he felt was a better fit for the audience of the Wii, and its horizontal WIi Remote control scheme. Regardless of whether it hurt the competitive viability of the game or not, it was a game made out of consideration of the platform it was on, not some revenge scheme done out of deep rooted hatred for the competitive scene.

Smash 4 was even worse than brawl. Nearly all of the depth of the characters was removed (just look at characters like Falco, Toon Link, PIT for christs sake) , Rage was added, shield mechanics were destroyed, rolling was buffed to hilarious levels......It's not that he's been ruining the game, for casuals none of this will ever matter. But for competitive play, this resulted in Smash 4 being extremely stagnant.

I disagree. Many of Smash 4's worst problems were gradually adressed in patches, such as the shielding. The problem was, just like Brawl, the platform the game was on. The game still needed to work on the 3DS, and so, the gameplay needed to take into account the controls and screen size of the handheld. That, combined with the fact that the game arrived far too late into the Wii U's life, when it's fate was already doomed. There simply wasn't enough time to take the game further than it did. Smash 4's main problem was that of circumstance. It came out too late, and got only limited support because of its short time frame.

And, as proof of this, just look at the crazy reception Ultimate got from both the competitive (including melee) and casual crowds alike.....the VAST MAJORITY of the system changes were DELIBERATELY put in to make the game more competitively viable, and EVERYONE benefitted from it.
Ultimate is a game that benefited from coming out at the right place, at the right time. If you actually play the game, it's basically a much more refined and polished version of Smash 4, one that has the time and the popularity to grow and improve overtime. Basically, Had Smash 4 came out sooner and on a much better platform, then it probably end up as something like Ultimate. Sakurai said himself, that many of the gameplay changes to Ultimate, were originally considered for Smash 4, but didn't make it due to hardware limitations. With Ultimate, there's really nothing holding it back this time, and that's why it's reception has been so good.

If Sakurai didn't have a vendetta against competitive play since Melee, this would have happened over a decade ago and the series would have been MUCH farther than it is right now.
Even with Ultimate, Sakurai's goal with Smash isn't to make the most technical and hardcore fighting game out there. This was his stance, even during Melee. That said, this doesn't mean he has some vendetta against competitive play. He's said before that people should play it that way if they want to. Mostly though, he simply dislikes it when people start boxing Smash into either casual, or competitive boxes. Because really, the flexible nature of the game means that you can play it anyway you want.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Yes, Sakurai always designed Smash to have a sense of depth underneath its simple surface. But he's explained multiple times that Brawl was changed the way it was because of the nature of the Wii as a platform. Where a slower, more party focused fighter he felt was a better fit for the audience of the Wii, and its horizontal WIi Remote control scheme. Regardless of whether it hurt the competitive viability of the game or not, it was a game made out of consideration of the platform it was on, not some revenge scheme done out of deep rooted hatred for the competitive scene.

Don't buy it. The Wii came equipped with full BC and actual ports for GCN controllers. You could use the Wiimote to play smash but it was absolutely not the intended method of playing, as the game itself would tell you. And even if it was....again.....they could have ported Melee to the switch and nothing would have changed for casual players. The control scheme is literally the same.
I disagree. Many of Smash 4's worst problems were gradually adressed in patches, such as the shielding. The problem was, just like Brawl, the platform the game was on. The game still needed to work on the 3DS, and so, the gameplay needed to take into account the controls and screen size of the handheld. That, combined with the fact that the game arrived far too late into the Wii U's life, when it's fate was already doomed. There simply wasn't enough time to take the game further than it did. Smash 4's main problem was that of circumstance. It came out too late, and got only limited support because of its short time frame.
Also false. Brawl was the way it was because Sakurai felt it would work better for the Wii audience. Plus, the limitations of the Wii Remote control scheme made some techniques impractical. In the case of Smash 4, it was mostly hardware limitations that held it back. The 3DS game needed to be the same as the Wii U game, which meant same physics and everything.

This notion that every change Sakurai makes to Smash is out of spite is one of the biggest lies in the Smash community.

The only platform limitation in Smash 4 came from Ice Climbers. Physics has absolutely nothing to do with it.

If that were true then Smash 4 would be the slower game (needing to be played on a 3DS) and Brawl would have been more like Smash 4.

And besides, him talking about control schemes is a bit moot because he has admitted WAYYYY more times that he changed the game specifically for skill gap reasons.


Ultimate is a game that benefited from coming out at the right place, at the right time. If you actually play the game, it's basically a much more refined and polished version of Smash 4, one that has the time and the popularity to grow and improve overtime. Basically, Had Smash 4 came out sooner and on a much better platform, then it probably end up as something like Ultimate. Sakurai said himself, that many of the gameplay changes to Ultimate, were originally considered for Smash 4, but didn't make it due to hardware limitations. With Ultimate, there's really nothing holding it back this time, and that's why it's reception has been so good.

Ultimate IS Smash 4.....with better mechanics. Literally all of the changes to ultimate from smash 4 are to make the game more competitive.

When i say "gameplay" i mean mechanics like short hop, cancelling dash animation with normals, reducing landing lag frame data, increasing 1v1 damage, option to toggle Rage, ect ect.

None of that required a console shift.

Even with Ultimate, Sakurai's goal with Smash isn't to make the most technical and hardcore fighting game out there. This was his stance, even during Melee.

This is my entire point -- melee was the most competitive game and there was NOTHING wrong with it. Casuals played it casually, competitive players played it competitively.

Those two groups rarely ever mix anyway, so i dont understand why he NEEDED to dumb the game down. Casuals can barely even perceive the differences anyway.

Most casual players literally can't even tell the finer differences between Smash 4 and Ultimate, but Ultimate is a SIGNIFICANTLY better game. This is the whole point i'm getting it.
 
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Jubenhimer

Member
Don't buy it. The Wii came equipped with full BC and actual ports for GCN controllers. You could use the Wiimote to play smash but it was absolutely not the intended method of playing, as the game itself would tell you. And even if it was....again.....they could have ported Melee to the switch and nothing would have changed for casual players. The control scheme is literally the same.

Sakurai said himself that many of the changes made to Brawl were made because of the limitations of the Wii Remote control scheme. Yes, you can use a Gamecube controller on Wii, but a good majority of the console's user-base, didn't have one, so the game still needed to be designed with multiple control methods in mind.

The only platform limitation in Smash 4 came from Ice Climbers. Physics has absolutely nothing to do with it.

If that were true then Smash 4 would be the slower game (needing to be played on a 3DS) and Brawl would have been more like Smash 4.

But it is true. You know Ultimate's "Balloon physics"? Those were originally intended for Smash 4. But were scrapped due to the limited screen size of the 3DS, hence the speed Smash 4 got stuck with. When Sakurai got the Switch, the larger screen meant the team was able to "up the tempo" in his words, as characters would be easier to keep track of on the larger display.

"This time, the screen is easier to see than the 3DS version, and it’s not just people who are not used to playing games, so we focused on bringing up the tempo of [Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]," Sakurai explained. "I think that sort of covers the characteristics of the series."

And besides, him talking about control schemes is a bit moot because he has admitted WAYYYY more times that he changed the game specifically for skill gap reasons.

Control limitations were one of many factors into Brawl's final game design. But skill gap was also another. Again though, what Sakurai means by that, was that he intended to design Brawl as a more approachable fighter for the Wii audience, which consisted of many newcomers to gaming. Brawl was designed to lower the skill gap, but it was mostly because of the platform the game was on, not some hatred for the competitive scene.

Regarding Melee, Sakurai has stated that it perhaps went too far in the "hardcore" direction, where it has the highest skill floor in the series due to its technical nuance. And while you can argue Brawl was too much in the opposite direction, It does show that he intends to make games that don't heavily favor either casual, or competitive sides. Just a game that can be enjoyed by anybody.

Ultimate IS Smash 4.....with better mechanics. Literally all of the changes to ultimate from smash 4 are to make the game more competitive.

When i say "gameplay" i mean mechanics like short hop, cancelling dash animation with normals, reducing landing lag frame data, increasing 1v1 damage, option to toggle Rage, ect ect.

None of that required a console shift.

Ultimate is what Smash 4 would've been had it been given better hardware and a more favorable time frame to work with. Sure, many changes are natural ones that come with a sequel, but many of them were also what probably would've been added to Smash 4 via updates. People forget that Smash 4 died so quickly, partially because the Wii U itself died so quickly. On top of being developed with an under-powered handheld in mind, the game was also too little, too late for the Wii U, as Nintendo would dump it just 2 years later.

What this meant was that, the amount of time the developers had to balance and fine tune characters, mechanics, and stages over the course of many patches to develop a healthy competitive scene was cut short. This left the game, in an awkward, half-finished state, ending with a broken DLC character, as Sakurai and the team moved on to start work on Ultimate. Regardless of whether it was more like Melee or Ultimate, Smash 4 was always going to have a short shelf life because the Wii U itself had a short shelf life.

It was far from the only complication, but it was one of many. Ultimate arrived very early in the Switch's life, and its on a much more popular platform. Which means the developers have more time and money to do bigger and more substantial updates to the game over the course of its life. It's also probably why we're getting another season of DLC Characters.

Smash 4, according to Sakurai, was intended to by a middle ground between Melee and Brawl, and you can argue he did okay for what he had to work with. But I think many will agree that Ultimate serves that role far better, largely because it's given better conditions to work with.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Smash 4, according to Sakurai, was intended to by a middle ground between Melee and Brawl, and you can argue he did okay for what he had to work with. But I think many will agree that Ultimate serves that role far better, largely because it's given better conditions to work with.

How could Smash 4 be a middleground between Melee and Brawl when Smash 4 doesn't even have half the depth of Brawl alone.....The only thing that was more similar was the fall speed.

The reason Smash 4 had a weak competitive life had nothing to do with its lack of patches, it was PURELY because of the way the game was designed. It took the formula of Brawl, dumbed it down heavily, streamlined everyone's moveset and made them fall faster. IT also completely destroyed offense indirectly by over-buffing rolls and almost completely removing all shield mechanics from the engine. (Shield push/lag/damage/slipping). No amount of patching would have fixed that game, it simply didn't have the capacity to have a good competitive scene, and to that distance i think Sakurai finally achieved his goal.And that's probably why Ultimate is the way it was -- again, casuals don't give a fuck about the finer aspects of competitive play, so there was literally no reason to put so much attention into rebalancing the mechanics.

HOWEVER, Esports is massive now, and Nintendo cannot avoid competitive scenes anymore, no matter how much they hate the fact that Smash is part of it.

Only reason i think Ultimate tried so hard is because Smash 4 was so dreadful to watch competitively that if Ultimate released (and was just a glorified port) then its scene would have been dead on arrival -- thus the first Smash game that a very vocal population would have not been excited to see come out.
 
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Fbh

Member
Would be a shame to see him retire.
The last time he was allowed to make a non Smash game he made the best game on 3DS and one of the best new things to come out of Nintendo in a long time.
 

Tesseract

Banned
he has terrible tendon issues in his back, basically destroyed himself making these games

i kinda want him to retire, he's gonna end up hospitalized if he goes again
 

Jubenhimer

Member
How could Smash 4 be a middleground between Melee and Brawl when Smash 4 doesn't even have half the depth of Brawl alone.....The only thing that was more similar was the fall speed.

It fixed things like Brawl's hitstun timer and removed tripping. They also tried to flesh out the ledge mechanics and tension with things like rage. Again, you can argue that a lot of the stuff in Smash 4 wasn't taken as far as it could've simply due to the circumstances of the game.

The reason Smash 4 had a weak competitive life had nothing to do with its lack of patches, it was PURELY because of the way the game was designed. It took the formula of Brawl, dumbed it down heavily, streamlined everyone's moveset and made them fall faster.

It was both due to the game's design, and the limited shelf life of the game. Again, it all goes back to the platforms we're talking about. An under-powered handheld, and a home console that was on its final gasp of breath. It wasn't just one factor that killed Smash 4, it was a variety of factors that led to its early death.

IT also completely destroyed offense indirectly by over-buffing rolls and almost completely removing all shield mechanics from the engine. (Shield push/lag/damage/slipping). No amount of patching would have fixed that game, it simply didn't have the capacity to have a good competitive scene, and to that distance i think Sakurai finally achieved his goal.

All of which were gradually being addressed in patches. If you followed the game, they were pretty much trying to fix the shield mechanics after they were becoming a problem. Smash 4 could've developed into a more finely tuned game, but that would've required years of updates and support, that the developers simply didn't have the time or budget for. I'm not saying Smash 4 would've played like Ultiamte if it was supported longer. But it would've developed into a more enjoyable game had it been given a longer shelf life. Instead, the game just ended on an anti-climactic note.

HOWEVER, Esports is massive now, and Nintendo cannot avoid competitive scenes anymore, no matter how much they hate the fact that Smash is part of it.

That may be true, but that doesn't really mean that Sakurai or Nintendo are against competitive smash. It's simply, not the primary focus. Before you bring up Melee at EVO in 2013, I'd like to mention that EVO technically wasn't even allowed to run Melee legally, they were going to do it purely because of the fan-base. Most tournaments actually need to get the rights to run games from their respective publishers in order to feature them, and EVO had to learn the hard way when Nintendo stepped in. EVO eventually ran Melee, but only after speaking with Nintendo to get permission.

Only reason i think Ultimate tried so hard is because Smash 4 was so dreadful to watch competitively that if Ultimate released (and was just a glorified port) then its scene would have been dead on arrival -- thus the first Smash game that a very vocal population would have not been excited to see come out.

Ultimate benefits from both being on a platform that can finally do what Smash 4 was attempting to do proper justice, and arriving early enough to guarantee it a long shelf life. Ultimate has far better conditions to work with than Smash 4 ever did.
 
Oh, so that they finally can take all those f...kin sword users and make a Nintendo Soul calibur with all of them?

And maybe, in the future, bring back smash, do a full reboot, have a smaller cast but many, many modes, minigames, trophies return etc.
 
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