Support NeoGAF

[cash_longfellow]

Nice spin dude. Keep trying

Trying for what?

 

[BlackTron]

 

[digoutyoursoul]

The Coalition are working with Undead Labs on State of Decay 3

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

Matt Booty says nothing:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"
Matt Booty says there are no development problems:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"

It's almost like people convince themselves of something and then ignore everything that contradicts their opinion

 

[KWAB]

art director just left after 3 years and got replaced by someone else

 

[Negotiator101]

Matt Booty says nothing:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"
Matt Booty says there are no development problems:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"

It's almost like people convince themselves of something and then ignore everything that contradicts their opinion

It's the Gaf effect where anything Xbox is inherently bad or underwhelming.

 

[Negotiator101]

The Coalition are working with Undead Labs on State of Decay 3

This is great news where you hear this? They are using UE5 for SOD3 right?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Ha, no. There are many differences... chief among them, these people don't have a day job making two of the most important IP for the parent company who owns them and depends upon their product line.

Those 2000 people were hired to do the gruntwork needed when a project is filling out its production, generally from studios specifically established to do this work (including sound studios and tech art production houses.) One Pixel Brush and Visual Dart and Redhot CG are not Crystal Dynamics.

I get it, the doom-and-gloom is in contrast to the fact that most games have production situations which look chaotic from the outside (and often are chaotic at heart) yet the final product can still turn out amazing. Say that, if you're going to say anything. Be optimistic that this will work out, or that The Initiative will sill prove itself as a business model once the project is actually done and it's clear what worked and didn't work about their first production. Don't get into BS about false equivalencies or console favoritism/persecution complex. This is an abnormal development cycle (by design, actually, thus the name, "The Initiative",) and it has yet to be proven how successful it can be at creating a product. When there is a game, there will be other things to talk about besides the production methods and insider stories, but we are here with what we have right now. So far, 4 years, 1 teaser, many departures, no game.

This.

They can still prove that this was the right model and release a fantastic 10/10 game and prove everyone wrong. But to say this is a normal development method and in line with what studios do is incorrect and needlessly defensive.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

Could matt booty perhaps have his own sub section of the forum? I count 5 threads where 'matt booty says...' so far?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Matt Booty says nothing:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"
Matt Booty says there are no development problems:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"

It's almost like people convince themselves of something and then ignore everything that contradicts their opinion

4 years in development.
They literally haven't shown anything from the game.
They shifted the bulk of the development to another studio.
More than 50% of the original team disbanded amidst reports of studio and development problems.
The Game Director left the project midway.
The game has been confirmed to not release within the next 12 months either.

The suits can say whatever they want to say. People will base their opinions on what is more logical. All the evidence and reports suggest the game is facing development problems.

It's on them to walk the talk to prove otherwise.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

This is great news where you hear this? They are using UE5 for SOD3 right?

https://gameranx.com/updates/id/354...rking-with-the-coalition-on-state-of-decay-3/

 

[BootsLoader]

I think that this game will have nothing to do with the Perfect Dark 64 masterpiece.
On the bright side, if it is Crystal Dynamics who will help with the game we will hear a lot of “sex screams“ like in tomb raider games (yes I’m pervert).

 

[R3claimer117]

No, the Perfect Dark development situation is super fucking different.

Whatever you have in your head about the crucifixion of Xbox by the opulent PlayStation fanbase, it has no place in this conversation about a game developer losing most of its core leadership staff 4 years into development and then hiring a working, very-busy external studio owned by a second corporation to do some (all?) of the work left of making the game. You're talking to somebody who has neither of the two current consoles, has owned past-gen consoles of both companies (and others,) and has no interest in the console wars outside of great games and technology leaps spurred on from the rivalry of competition. So don't try to change the subject because you think you and your people are unfairly criticized. Get some perspective.

And BTW, since you seem to believe Sony skates scot free in gamers' minds, you might remember one of the more recent times where a big-time game developer making a franchise lost its top leader: I'm thinking of when Sony's Naughty Dog studio changed its top brass on Uncharted 4 and Amy Henning was out of her job as Creative Director. A lot of things happened when that went down, but I'll tell you two things that did not happen: Sony and its PlayStation brand were not handed a get-out-of-jail card by the press or the fanbase for this situation, and Naughty Dog didn't hire Crystal freaking Dynamics to make part or all of their game for them.

This is a really misinformed comparison. Comparing a studio losing one of its leaders when they were firmly behind the direction durkman wanted to go in doesn’t mean half or all of the employees left with her in that situation then yeah this would have been the same but that’s not what took place. Naughty dog still had a full studio and still had outsourcing on that game with other developers lending a hand on making it. Games just require move developers to make these days that’s just a fact. Hence why activision keeps pulling all of its other studios off games to help with call of duty instead of outsourcing and paying other studios. The initiative lost half their team the idea they should then put their project on pause when they have the option of outsourcing with a skilled team at crystal dynamic is available that square wasn’t using. Also a team the head of the initiative use to run I don’t see the issue other then them again making it a press release.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Sure thing matt

 

[Umbasaborne]

4 years in development.
They literally haven't shown anything from the game.
They shifted the bulk of the development to another studio.
More than 50% of the original team disbanded amidst reports of studio and development problems.
The Game Director left the project midway.
The game has been confirmed to not release within the next 12 months either.

The suits can say whatever they want to say. People will base their opinions on what is more logical. All the evidence and reports suggest the game is facing development problems.

It's on them to walk the talk to prove otherwise.

Yep, the fact that microsoft still has nothing to show for their cg trailers is frankly embarassing

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Now that I think about it with respect to the genre an FPS should not take 4+ years of development.

 

[abacab driver]

4 years in development.
They literally haven't shown anything from the game.

Now that I think about it with respect to the genre an FPS should not take 4+ years of development.

The team was CREATED 4 years ago before they even had a fucking location.

They became an actual workplace in early 2019 (the Initiatives first blog on this was In March 2019 citing they 'just moved in') and they had something like 30 staff members.

They spent that year looking for new hires and putting together that prototype Phil Spencer played in February 2020, per Drew Murrays twitter.
(Mind you, this is before anyone knows what they're doing or what they're approach in development is).

A month later, the pandemic hit and everyone in the industry's process is affected.

Stop the concern theater and stop acting like you "know how long games/genres should bein development for."
It's just going to make you look dumber in retrospect if/when the game wows people upon reveal.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

The team was CREATED 4 years ago before they even had a fucking location.

They became an actual workplace in early 2019 (the Initiatives first blog on this was In March 2019 citing they 'just moved in') and they had something like 30 staff members.

They spent that year looking for new hires and putting together that prototype Phil Spencer played in February 2020, per Drew Murrays twitter.
(Mind you, this is before anyone knows what they're doing or what they're approach in development is).

A month later, the pandemic hit and everyone in the industry's process is affected.

Stop the concern theater and stop acting like you "know how long games/genres should bein development for."
It's just going to make you look dumber in retrospect if/when the game wows people upon reveal.

So you're telling me they announced a game without even starting development?

 

[abacab driver]

So you're telling me they announced a game without even starting development?

If Phil played something in February 2020 and Perfect Dark was announced December 2020, what the fuck do you think was going on at the studio?

 

[IndianaJack]

The narrative on NeoGAF seems to be that Xbox Studios are a lost child, they have no clue what they're doing, they're a 100% failure and close them up.

 

[adamsapple]

Now that I think about it with respect to the genre an FPS should not take 4+ years of development.

How long should it take to make an FPS game for a new team ? I'm assuming you'll give an experienced reply.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Perfect Dark's makeup is straight office shooting.

 

[Wildebeest]

Single player FPS campaigns are a genre so stale and unwanted that they might as well be dead, unless you go for the people making retro 90s games.

 

[spons]

I wince when I read all the posts from people with zero experience in software development having expert knowledge about the subject because they use the end-product.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Now that they have a competent team I have no doubt.

 

[graywolf323]

It's the Gaf effect where anything Xbox is inherently bad or underwhelming.

the persecution complex from Xbox fans is just astounding, yes GAF hates Xbox which is why Halo Infinite won GOTY here last year and Game Pass is widely liked

 

[yurinka]

It is nice logic if you had reading comprehension.

I never said that the game should ship in 4 years, but certainly I'd want to have some kind of trailer that showcases something more tangible than a CGI teaser. Absent any kind of tangible information whatsoever about the game, the only safe assumption is that they're going through some issues.

Does that mean the project is in development hell? Not necessarily, but it certainly hasn't been smooth sailing.

They don't show the game because they are still several years away from release, so the game still isn't in a shape to be shown. AAA games need many years to be developed, around 4-6 years in most cases but sometimes (like when making a new IP, a new genre for the studio, the first game of the studio, making a new engine for the studio, a game particularly large etc) even more. Every generation the timeframe gets longer, so this time can even be a year or two more.

This is normal development, doesn't mean development issues. It only means MS announced these games earlier than usual with a CG or logo teaser, when many of them were under early preproduction and didn't even have a vertical slice ready.

 

[CamHostage]

The team was CREATED 4 years ago before they even had a fucking location.

They became an actual workplace in early 2019 (the Initiatives first blog on this was In March 2019 citing they 'just moved in') and they had something like 30 staff members...

I see, it's a fledgling performance center, a talent magnet by design that will take time to lure in the ace staff needed to build its future, and so surely Microsoft wisely treated this with the proper management of expectations so that the common game fans would understand that this was a distant-future development but something of interest for industry insiders to keep an eye on for later, and they probably did that announcement in like a minor press release or a mention in a disclosure & outlook business call...

...Oh, wait, no, looks like I guessed wrong and was actually done on the mainstage of E3 2018 in a public unveiling that begun, "We embarked upon a quest to find the creative teams who have the mastery of our artform."

And when Darrell Gallagher, Studio Head of The Initiative, said that same E3 as part of his studio introduction, "There are big plans in store for fans and we are already hard at work," what he was referring to was that they were hard at work looking for office space.

If Phil played something in February 2020 and Perfect Dark was announced December 2020, what the fuck do you think was going on at the studio?

Again, I'm confused? Are The Initiative baby embryo birds still too young to crack out of their shells, or are they fully ready to leave the nest and none of the rest of us know how birds fly?

(BTW, if my boss's boss was coming into the office for a tour, you can bet I'd have something for him to check out; whether that thing would actually have any relevance to the thing my company ships is a different matter, but, you know, fake it 'til you make it...)

 

[CamHostage]

This is a really misinformed comparison. Comparing a studio losing one of its leaders when they were firmly behind the direction durkman wanted to go in doesn’t mean half or all of the employees left with her in that situation then yeah this would have been the same but that’s not what took place... Games just require (more) developers to make these days that’s just a fact.... The initiative lost half their team the idea they should then put their project on pause when they have the option of outsourcing with a skilled team at crystal dynamic is available that square wasn’t using. Also a team the head of the initiative use to run I don’t see the issue other then them again making it a press release.

No need to inform me that the situations are not exactly point-for-point the same. I'm aware, and that's why I outlined point for point why I was making the comparison.

So let me outline those points again...

A. Xbox persecution complex in this conversation is foolish. There are people in this thread who are fans of Xbox or neutral to the console wars and just want a good Perfect Dark, and they are right there in conversation saying the narrative of Booty does not jive with the facts of the timeline and the departures.

B. If in any game developer's case, they had lost the Game Director and the Design Director and the Technical Director and the Lead Level Designer and the Tech Art Director and the Lead Gameplay Engineer and the Lead Animator and the Principal World Builder and the QA Lead, and instead of filling all those senior staff roles internally, they turned to a renown external studio and brought on that whole group as lead staff, that would not have been business as usual. That would be ceding the project to another game development studio. That's not "more developers", those leaders are "the developers". Your company gets credit for having the same "Studio Head" as Producer overseeing the project and for the contributors still onboard to help, but the studio with the lead staff positions is who is making the game.

(Which, if that's what happened, great! Crystal Dynamics can make good games. I'd have been happy if The Initiative had made an awesome Perfect Dark on their own and established themselves as dependable hitmakers, but if Option B is the only way to get out a new Perfect Dark, well then, Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies...)

 

[Thirty7ven]

Matt Booty says water is not wet, quite the opposite.

 

[Apocryphon]

Perfect Dark is overrated and the sequel is complete dogshit. Exactly what are we expecting from this game?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Matt Booty says nothing:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"
Matt Booty says there are no development problems:
Neogaf: "Wow they're having development problems"

It's almost like people convince themselves of something and then ignore everything that contradicts their opinion

Segments of NeoGAF have turned into what they hate the most. Clickbait, console war take givers.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Perfect Dark is overrated and the sequel is complete dogshit. Exactly what are we expecting from this game?

Get hyped for product.

 

[VolticArchangel]

Damn, this was announced almost 2 years ago, and in dev for 4 years. Time flies. Guess COVID fucked their plans really bad as we've had nothing other than that CGI teaser at Game Awards. They should be showing something at least next year, and release by 2024. Same time of development and announcement for Fable too.

 

[Varteras]

VGC was one of the publications that reported on issues with the Perfect Dark project. This is the head of VGC.

He also clarifies that when he says "Xbox leadership" he is referring to the Xbox management directly responsible for The Initiative.

 

[Gudji]

We all know he's full of shit.

 

[Captain Toad]

Matt Booty: Scalebound released in 2019 and won every GOTY award available.

 

[drganon]

Guess we'll find out for sure if and when it ever comes out.

 

[Pelta88]

VGC was one of the publications that reported on issues with the Perfect Dark project. This is the head of VGC.

He also clarifies that when he says "Xbox leadership" he is referring to the Xbox management directly responsible for The Initiative.

This is new thread worthy. The source is 100% solid on gaf.

Also

The debate about management of XBS has always leaned into the management being piss poor.

 

[remember_spinal]

VGC was one of the publications that reported on issues with the Perfect Dark project. This is the head of VGC.

He also clarifies that when he says "Xbox leadership" he is referring to the Xbox management directly responsible for The Initiative.

I mean, no shit, half your development team just up and quits because things are going smoothly?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Somehow missed this yesterday. Well basically like I said in the other threads on SoD3 and Fable: I'm glad Matt Booty's actually out here talking more regularly about games under his watch. It's something you'd forget is part of his job responsibilities with how little he's done in the past with regards to it.

And it's nice hearing that things are supposedly going well but that means a whole lot less than actually showing that they're going well. Keep in mind, prior to the gameplay reveal several Bethesda people and even Xbox people like Booty and Phil were glowing with nothing short of praise for Starfield, exuding the utmost confidence.

Then the gameplay reveal happened.

I wouldn't call it a "disaster", it was nowhere on the level of Halo Infinite's reveal in 2020. However, it was certainly underwhelming in quite a few aspects, and some of the info that came out afterwards like the 1,000 planets, for me, some of it was just a turn-off. So he can say that Perfect Dark, Fable, State of Decay 3 etc. are coming along perfectly fine development-wise but it means very little until we get a chance to actually see how these games are shaping up, and that is still several months away at the earliest.

 

[TheGodfather07]

This will probably release 2025 at the earliest.

 

[abacab driver]

All this surface level "cultural issues" and "problem with leadership" talk with zero details, nuance or context makes Andy come off like a gossip girl.

Crystal was brought on an entire year ago already..why even bring up any prior issues if you believe Crystal is a positive solution?
"They should be cool now, but my DM's though!!"

Gtfoh.

 

[sendit]

Matt Booty has been doing a lot of pampering and reassuring fans lately.

 

[Sosokrates]

Good.



Every development is not sunshine and rainbows though.

If we had a fly on the wall on every dev studio they would all be complete disasters