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[Romulus]

I'm not looking for a "W". I'm merely saying that the whole "QUEST HAS SOLD AS MANY AS XBOX SO IF VR IS NICHE THEN SO IS XBOX!!!" take is silly. They are two completely different products.

Says the guy that immediately brought up kinect and its sales. VR is a completely different product yet it's ok for you use any comparison you see fit.

Maybe if Xbox had a clue what happening around them, but you look at their sales, strategy over the last 10 years and things make more sense. They invest in shit like kinect, TV, and bury their legendary franchises in mediocrity or worse. Only thing left to do is buy studios who actually know what they're doing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Says the guy that immediately brought up kinect and its sales. VR is a completely different product yet it's ok for you use any comparison you see fit.

Maybe if Xbox had a clue what happening around them, but you look at their sales, strategy over the last 10 years and things make more sense. They invest in shit like kinect, TV, and bury their legendary franchises in mediocrity or worse. Only thing left to do is buy studios who actually know what they're doing.

 

[Fredrik]

20 million bought a VR headset but never uses it

Sigh, and why is that? Because the store is like going through the Wii eshop. As a fan of VR I’ve given up now, when 20 million Quest 2 sales isn’t enough to wake up AAA devs then all hope is lost for that industry as far as I’m concerned. Quest 3 is going to flop.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sigh, and why is that? Because the store is like going through the Wii eshop. As a fan of VR I’ve given up now, when 20 million Quest 2 sales isn’t enough to wake up AAA devs then all hope is lost for that industry as far as I’m concerned. Quest 3 is going to flop.

Why do you quote as if what he said was truth? I asked for metrics, they were never provided.

Confirmation bias from no source material. #ForTheBrand

VR does not live or die by AAA like traditional play. For every Alyx, there is a Boneworks that reaches far more people.

 

[Fredrik]

Why do you quote as if what he said was truth? I asked for metrics, they were never provided.

Confirmation bias from no source material. #ForTheBrand

VR does not live or die by AAA like traditional play. For every Alyx, there is a Boneworks that reaches far more people.

Regarding 20 million sales and little usage?
Because I think it’s true. And I think it has been true for a long time. I even think Meta has reports on it. Not that nobody use it but that the majority fall off after 6 months.
And I’ve gone through the VR honeymoon phase twice already and now I’m back in the collecting dust phase again. Friends fell off last year. And I see no real hype for Quest 3 or it’s AR capabilities. Topics about the Quest pass barely get any attention. Not seeing any real hype over other headsets either. I just don’t see anything happening right now that signals that the industry is ramping up for some kind of VR or AR boom. And here I see a small group of enthusiasts talking in the OTs.
I’ll gladly check back in half a year if things are changing for the better but for now I just get depressed thinking about this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Regarding 20 million sales and little usage?
Because I think it’s true. And I think it has been true for a long time. I even think Meta has reports on it. Not that nobody use it but that the majority fall off after 6 months.
And I’ve gone through the VR honeymoon phase twice already and now I’m back in the collecting dust phase again. Friends fell off last year. And I see no real hype for Quest 3 or it’s AR capabilities. Topics about the Quest pass barely get any attention. Not seeing any real hype over other headsets either. I just don’t see anything happening right now that signals that the industry is ramping up for some kind of VR or AR boom. And here I see a small group of enthusiasts talking in the OTs.
I’ll gladly check back in half a year if things are changing for the better but for now I just get depressed thinking about this.

And it's the oppo for my friends and I. So anecdotes be that way.

And I was not big into PSVR, never even purchased it, just messed around with my buddy's when I borrowed his, or used his Index when going over his crib. GT7 alone has me hooked into PSVR2 and as I said in another thread. That app alone is well worth my purchase and is on a constant rotation in VR.

More options for gaming experiences are always a good thing.

 

[Fredrik]

And it's the oppo for my friends and I. So anecdotes be that way.

And I was not big into PSVR, never even purchased it, just messed around with my buddy's when I borrowed his, or used his Index when going over his crib. GT7 alone has me hooked into PSVR2 and as I said in another thread. That app alone is well worth my purchase and is on a constant rotation in VR.

More options for gaming experiences are always a good thing.

PSVR2 is still new, honeymoon phase isn’t over. Quest 3 will have a boost too and people will say it’s the best ever and AR is so cool etc etc. There will probably be people here talking about Apple Vision Pro as well and claim it was worth the money. Then the dust comes in…
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer but I’ve just been here before, and it’s frustrating when I can see the potential and the big devs are just sleeping, we’re literally just jumping around in honeymoon phases over and over for years.

 

[DeepEnigma]

PSVR2 is still new, honeymoon phase isn’t over. Quest 3 will have a boost too and people will say it’s the best ever and AR is so cool etc etc. There will probably be people here talking about Apple Vision Pro as well and claim it was worth the money. Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer but I’ve just been here before, and it’s frustrating when I can see the potential and the big devs are just sleeping, we’re literally just jumping around in honeymoon phases over and over for years.

You have to understand something. I love cars, I always loved cars. From working on cars in my youth in the 90s, to street racing in my youth in the 90s and early 2000's, to track racing from mid 2000's till today. GT7 was my most played game last year with well over 350 hours, I believe. And that was flat screen racing.

It's a whole other level with it being built from the ground up to take advantage of VR without all the quirks and setup issues that most added on modded VR has with racing games on the PC. There is no "honeymoon phase" since a game I enjoyed and continue to well over a year later, got even better where I can't ever go back to flat for racing again.

But again, anecdotes be that way.

 

[PeteBull]

Of course exclusives matter, but some people think way too simple. Microsoft doesn't suddenly sell double >100 million consoles if they had a bunch of >200 million Dollar games.

On this very forum miriad of users keep telling blinded microsoft fanboys that the only reason their console sucks ass is coz it has no exclusive games, if not for exclusives switch wouldnt sell even 50% of its current official number of 125m+.
Give switch gamepass like feature and put all its exclusive on pc and u will see how quickly its gonna die down.
MS strategy for this gen was/is bad coz of 2 things:
1) Inheritely low instal base coz ppl got no incentive to buy it with 0 exclusives(coz u can play every single game on ur pc, at much better quality/fps, yes even including games like amazing forza horizon 5).
2)Gamepass- which makes sure none of the games get good sales.

Combo of those 2 things made sure that series x consoles not only sold really badly till now, but whats even worse- they keep selling less and less.

Lets hope in 5,5 years once next gen starts microsoft at leasts draws proper conclusions and goes back to proven method like back in x360 times, if not, then in 8 years u will have have posters on gaf claiming that 2:1 ratio or 3:1 ratio isnt so bad for series y/z vs playstation 6, coz they are coming from 2 really bad generations when they got roflstomped, and with just this next aquisition, in another 3 to 5 years, they gonna make big comeback ;D

 

[Fredrik]

You have to understand something. I love cars, I always loved cars. From working on cars in my youth in the 90s, to street racing in my youth in the 90s and early 2000's, to track racing from mid 2000's till today. GT7 was my most played game last year with well over 350 hours, I believe. And that was flat screen racing.

It's a whole other level with it being built from the ground up to take advantage of VR without all the quirks and issues that most added on VR has with racing games on the PC. There is no "honeymoon phase" since a game I enjoyed and continue to well over a year later, got even better where I can't ever go back to flat for racing again.

But again, anecdotes be that way.

Yeah you don’t have to convince me, used to have a triple screen rig and steering wheel for racing for a long time, then added VR into the mix, and yes it’s awesome.
I still fell off. Maybe your interest is deeper so you don’t fall off. You’ll know eventually. Personally I’m just tired of investing money on hardware when I don’t see the big devs investing in software, they’re just sitting on the fence waiting for VR to get big enough or something. Meanwhile it’s an indie and at most AA dev shovelware fest on the store. It’s all backwards.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah you don’t have to convince me, used to have a triple screen rig and steering wheel for racing for a long time, then added VR into the mix, and yes it’s awesome.
I still fell off. Maybe your interest is deeper so you don’t fall off. You’ll know eventually. Personally I’m just tired of investing money on hardware when I don’t see the big devs investing in software, they’re just sitting on the fence waiting for VR to get big enough or something. Meanwhile it’s an indie and at most AA dev shovelware fest on the store. It’s all backwards.

I'm almost tempted to get one these for the G meter feedback since it would be cheaper to have this rig, and only track my cars half the year saving on gas, tires, brakes, fluid changes (especially for dry sump and dual clutch trans hours) and other misc. car parts alone.

Symdeck racing simulator motion platforms for PC and console

Symdeck racing simulator motion platforms for PC and console are a modular system which can be stacked together to create up to a 6 DOF system

symdeck.com

 

[mrmustard]

On this very forum miriad of users keep telling blinded microsoft fanboys that the only reason their console sucks ass is coz it has no exclusive games, if not for exclusives switch wouldnt sell even 50% of its current official number of 125m+.
Give switch gamepass like feature and put all its exclusive on pc and u will see how quickly its gonna die down.
MS strategy for this gen was/is bad coz of 2 things:
1) Inheritely low instal base coz ppl got no incentive to buy it with 0 exclusives(coz u can play every single game on ur pc, at much better quality/fps, yes even including games like amazing forza horizon 5).
2)Gamepass- which makes sure none of the games get good sales.

Combo of those 2 things made sure that series x consoles not only sold really badly till now, but whats even worse- they keep selling less and less.

Lets hope in 5,5 years once next gen starts microsoft at leasts draws proper conclusions and goes back to proven method like back in x360 times, if not, then in 8 years u will have have posters on gaf claiming that 2:1 ratio or 3:1 ratio isnt so bad for series y/z vs playstation 6, coz they are coming from 2 really bad generations when they got roflstomped, and with just this next aquisition, in another 3 to 5 years, they gonna make big comeback ;D

Switch is a special case, because they are lacking popular 3rd party games and would indeed suffer without exclusives, 50% or even below sound realistic. But i bet Playstation and Xbox without any exclusives would easily still sell >80%.
I think Microsoft doesn't have a "this gen" or "next gen" strategy that relies on console selling. They are hoping for a streaming and sub boom. We'll see how that turns out, but i wouldn't be surprised, one way or another, if the next gen is the last with a proper Xbox console.

 

[Fredrik]

I'm almost tempted to get one these for the G meter feedback since it would be cheaper to have this rig, and only track my cars half the year saving on gas, tires, brakes, fluid changes (especially for dry sump and dual clutch trans hours) and other misc. car parts alone.

Symdeck racing simulator motion platforms for PC and console

Symdeck racing simulator motion platforms for PC and console are a modular system which can be stacked together to create up to a 6 DOF system

symdeck.com

If your interest is serious. Do it!
I’ve never had a motion rig and racing seat, would take up too much space when I’m not using it. A steering wheel is bad enough for me tbh but I use a wheel stand pro which you can fold and hide under the desk, while the wheel is still on it. Very convenient!

 

[TBiddy]

Says the guy that immediately brought up kinect and its sales. VR is a completely different product yet it's ok for you use any comparison you see fit.

Maybe if Xbox had a clue what happening around them, but you look at their sales, strategy over the last 10 years and things make more sense. They invest in shit like kinect, TV, and bury their legendary franchises in mediocrity or worse. Only thing left to do is buy studios who actually know what they're doing.

I'm glad you mentioned the Kinect, because that was the perfect example of why your reasoning was flawed. Why do you think I mentioned it?

The rest of your post is irrelevant, but feel free to rant on.

It was either that or whataboutism...

I'm not sure I follow your line of thought there.

Sigh, and why is that? Because the store is like going through the Wii eshop. As a fan of VR I’ve given up now, when 20 million Quest 2 sales isn’t enough to wake up AAA devs then all hope is lost for that industry as far as I’m concerned. Quest 3 is going to flop.

I have no experience with that, but I think you're right in the last sentence.

 

[Romulus]

I'm glad you mentioned the Kinect, because that was the perfect example of why your reasoning was flawed. Why do you think I mentioned it?

The rest of your post is irrelevant, but feel free to rant on.

Riiight. By using an add-on/pack in example to teach me what "not to do." Xbox and Quest are standalone gaming devices, Kinect isn't. But thanks man, now we know since you can police comparisons here.

While you're at it, might as well send these guys an email to be sure they don't violate your rule.

Oculus Quest 2 sales jump ahead of Xbox Series X and Series S

Oculus Quest 2 sales figures suggest the Meta VR headset is the most successful model to date, outselling not only the HTC Vive but the Xbox Series X and S, too

www.pcgamesn.com

Looks like the Oculus Quest 2 is still selling better than the Xbox

VR continues to grow at an exponential rate.

www.androidcentral.com

Quest 2 VR headset outsells Xbox Series X/S consoles

Standalone VR headset Quest 2 from Meta (formerly Oculus under Facebook) has outsold Microsoft's Xbox Series X/S consoles, according to the latest information from the International Data Corporati...

www.thevirtualreport.biz

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Well it just pushes the gamers that do give a crap to PC, PS5 or standalone stuff like quest. MS could have enabled access to the Windows supported headsets on the series but chose not to.

Once again, because it hasnt moved a need in the console space. Not in sales nor game changing GAMING experiences.

 

[TBiddy]

Riiight. By using an add-on/pack in example to teach me what "not to do." Xbox and Quest are standalone gaming devices, Kinect isn't. But thanks man, now we know since you can police comparisons here.

While you're at it, might as well send these guys an email to be sure they don't violate your rule.

Oculus Quest 2 sales jump ahead of Xbox Series X and Series S

Oculus Quest 2 sales figures suggest the Meta VR headset is the most successful model to date, outselling not only the HTC Vive but the Xbox Series X and S, too

www.pcgamesn.com

Looks like the Oculus Quest 2 is still selling better than the Xbox

VR continues to grow at an exponential rate.

www.androidcentral.com

Quest 2 VR headset outsells Xbox Series X/S consoles

Standalone VR headset Quest 2 from Meta (formerly Oculus under Facebook) has outsold Microsoft's Xbox Series X/S consoles, according to the latest information from the International Data Corporati...

www.thevirtualreport.biz

I'm telling you why I think your original statement ("if noone wants VR, noone wants the new Xbox consoles!1") was silly. I think we agree on that point by now, though, considering your rather aggressive tone.

 

[PeteBull]

Switch is a special case, because they are lacking popular 3rd party games and would indeed suffer without exclusives, 50% or even below sound realistic. But i bet Playstation and Xbox without any exclusives would easily still sell >80%.
I think Microsoft doesn't have a "this gen" or "next gen" strategy that relies on console selling. They are hoping for a streaming and sub boom. We'll see how that turns out, but i wouldn't be surprised, one way or another, if the next gen is the last with a proper Xbox console.

No console is special case, no quality exclusives compared to competition always ment lower sales, u can see it best looking at ps360 gen, early on xbox had solid lead not only coz it started year earlier, but coz it actually had high quality exclusive games to show(yup many were timed, doesnt matter) and that was coming into the gen from ps2/og xbox aka massive playstation lead in sales/mindshare(back then i had both ps2 and xbox but i was one of the few, yes i was lucky coz buddy had dreamcast so i got chance to literally play every good game from that gen except gamecube ones).

Later in the gen quality of x360 exclusives dropped hard, instead it got lol kinect add on, while ps3 kept on bringing those AAA exclusive games with "not sustainable budget" and in the end surpassed x360 aka made it to top2 in sales, ofc wii topped charts.

 

[mrmustard]

No console is special case, no quality exclusives compared to competition always ment lower sales, u can see it best looking at ps360 gen, early on xbox had solid lead not only coz it started year earlier, but coz it actually had high quality exclusive games to show(yup many were timed, doesnt matter) and that was coming into the gen from ps2/og xbox aka massive playstation lead in sales/mindshare(back then i had both ps2 and xbox but i was one of the few, yes i was lucky coz buddy had dreamcast so i got chance to literally play every good game from that gen except gamecube ones).

Later in the gen quality of x360 exclusives dropped hard, instead it got lol kinect add on, while ps3 kept on bringing those AAA exclusive games with "not sustainable budget" and in the end surpassed x360 aka made it to top2 in sales, ofc wii topped charts.

Let's just agree to disagree then.

 

[Fatal Chuck Yeager]

Saying that the Quest "platform" (both) is doing better than Xbox and acting like that means something is illogical.

For nearly two years Quest 2 was outselling PS5 and Xbox 2:1 and if not mistaken in some cases combined with its own constraints. The leak with the estimated 20 mill sales came out months after the Quest 2 had long been losing adoption and was no longer selling well, and when Meta increase the price.

But in either case VR has not been growing in a long time. It needs to take a break and come back with new implementation that's more effective for industry and more appealing to consumers instead of current fans trying to force the current standard to continue with incremental upgrades and no one willing to take the risk for a change in implementation. Apples Headset is nothing more than a prettier version of a design we have already seen for years now since Apple has been working on the headset for years since the cardboard explosion. Right now consoles are growing and will keep moving for the next 5 years, they aren't really comparable. Kinect also didn't die in under a year either.

Supporting by teasing support for VR with series X then dropping all mention of it?

That was the One X. They dropped it within a year when VR was all over the news and after seeing where it was going decided to omit it.

 

[Brucey]

That was the One X. They dropped it within a year when VR was all over the news and after seeing where it was going decided to omit it.

Ah that makes more sense. Definitely wouldn't have been worth it for such a limited console population (tho they prob sold a decent amount when they were clearing them out for $350 etc)

 

[Fatal Chuck Yeager]

Ah that makes more sense. Definitely wouldn't have been worth it for such a limited console population (tho they prob sold a decent amount when they were clearing them out for $350 etc)

Actually the One X did strong at earlier on but when Phil walked back VR they didn't even release the console yet so this is the wrong conclusion to have.

They probably had a board meeting during that year when everyone was going to stores to try out the next generation of VR and at the end decided that it wasn't where it needed to be to put a lot of resources in that area. He instead focused more on 4K HDR which made more sense considering the rapid 4K TV adoption.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Why skip a gen and compare with 360 instead of X1?
Wouldn't it make more sense to compare a gen with the previous one?

Because it probably hasnt sold much better than Xbox 1.
And X1 was also outselling 360 and we all know how that turned out.

Basically he doesnt mention X1 because it would make X Series not look impressive at all

 

[SkylineRKR]

I think Xbox doesn't sell well. Thats why MS kinda stopped revealing sales data since X1 days. Now this was released by accident, and they combine with Xbox One. Imagine if Sony combines PS5 numbers with PS4, they'll be at 150 million? It makes Xbox look even worse. Remember with 360 they posted sales every day of the week lol.

I think Series is a great console mind you, its much better than X1 and there is little wrong with it in general. But Gamepass is kind of overrated, I had it running for 2 years and while it was certainly unique 2 years ago, PS Plus Extra doesn't really offer less. Ofcourse this is what competition does, but you don't have to get an Xbox if you want such a rental service. And the games on it, well the quality is all over the place. You won't find the best games on it, like RE4, Elden Ring, Dead Space Remake etc. MS exclusives are day one, good on paper, but in practice they barely release a thing and if they do, like Redfall, its trash. Halo was disappointing too. FH5 was the only new retail game on the service in 2 years I really liked.

The lack of exclusives also must've hurt them. There was nothing in the first year, and then Halo comes out and it turns out to be another dud that lost relevance quickly after launch. I think there is little incentive to buy an Xbox since you can also use GP on PC and again, Sony has a very good offer too. But in general I can do without both services. Right now I play FFXVI and SF6, both games you need to purchase.

I have the S and I like it, but I think this strategy doesn't really help MS either. I know they are kind of moving away from consoles, its their current narrative, and I think they are better off as a service anyway. They will lose like 10 million Starfield sales, as per predictions. If Sony wouldn't sign CoD, they'd lose even more. Strip away console costs and R&D, release all that shit on PS5 as well and let the money come in.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

What should worry people is that Xbox one did that starting at a higher price, with worse performance and the Kinect attached.

If the Xbox series without those issues and a lower starting point with the series S and “the best deal in gaming” can’t beat it , means the brand is profoundly damaged.