Support NeoGAF

[feynoob]

Until the install base/possible audience becomes interesting to try and target like Fifa/Apex.

The problem is the power of the console.
Current games is hard to run on Switch. You need cloud mode to run control.

And now with next gen games becoming more powerful, it's makes it even harder to port those games to switch. Only option would be cloud.

 

[feynoob]

Of course they do.
If I have a finite amount of time and a finite amount of money and God of War releases at the same time as say Bayonetta 3, I need to choose where to spend my money and time.

If I am a gamer, who wants to play hardware demanding games. Switch would obsolete for me, due to hardware limitations.

It's not something, which time can fix.

Nintendo would need a new switch, like steam deck power.

 

[reksveks]

The problem is the power of the console.
Current games is hard to run on Switch. You need cloud mode to run control.

And now with next gen games becoming more powerful, it's makes it even harder to port those games to switch. Only option would be cloud.

But it doesn't mean it isn't competing, it just has a different distribution system or quality settings and the user will make the decision on what priorities that they have aka portability or quality.

 

[Topher]

But it doesn't mean it isn't competing, it just has a different distribution system or quality settings and the user will make the decision on what priorities that they have aka portability or quality.

Nintendo is competing with PS and Xbox in a general sense. They are not competing with them when comes to games like Call of Duty. Look at the games being sold on Xbox and PS. Outside of exclusives, they are the same. Look at the games being sold on Switch. Completely different. So yes, competing in the video game industry, but not for the same exact audience playing the same games as PS and Xbox.

Trying to act like Nintendo isn't a key competitor is peak gaming we have seen for generations. When they are doing insanely we'll everyone acts like they aren't competition and talks about how they are great entry points for kids into gaming etc even though every one of us man babies around the world still buys them and spends hard earned money on their products. When they aren't doing as well everyone talks about how they need to up their output or improve to be competitive.

The fact is, Nintendo sell video games....video games are what we enjoy....we decide where we spend our money and more importantly where we spend our finite time playing video games....am I purchasing and playing bayonetta 3 over god of war this weekend? They are competing for sure.

If you can't see this you are crackers imo.

But this has nothing to do with games like God of War R and Bayonetta 3. This is about third party games, specifically Call of Duty and no, you are not choosing between Switch and PS/Xbox to play games like that.

 

[reksveks]

Nintendo is competing with PS and Xbox in a general sense. They are not competing with them when comes to games like Call of Duty. Look at the games being sold on Xbox and PS. Outside of exclusives, they are the same. Look at the games being sold on Switch. Completely different. So yes, competing in the video game industry, but not for the same exact audience playing the same games as PS and Xbox.

Yeah, which then goes back to the market definition topic. I would like to see the % of games not on Switch both by actual sku's, engagement time and then revenue. Think the two big outliers would be Madden and COD. Its also weird if you takes MS comments about putting CoD in Switch seriously.

I think excluding Nintendo from the market for one analysis whilst including MacOS in another just feels a bit weird.

 

[feynoob]

But it doesn't mean it isn't competing, it just has a different distribution system or quality settings and the user will make the decision on what priorities that they have aka portability or quality.

CmA doesn't see that way.
Because of Switch hardware, they can't get COD. So they won't get impacted by Activision purchase.

 

[Topher]

Yeah, which then goes back to the market definition topic. I would like to see the % of games not on Switch both by actual sku's, engagement time and then revenue. Think the two big outliers would be Madden and COD. Its also weird if you takes MS comments about putting CoD in Switch seriously.

I think that's needlessly going down a rabbit hole to answer a question that was never really controversial until it was forced into the Activision Blizzard discussion. The fact that Nintendo doesn't sell the same type of games as the other consoles isn't new. Suddenly, Nintendo is a key factor when it comes to Call of Duty? Really trying to pound that square peg into around hole at that point.

I think excluding Nintendo from the market for one analysis whilst including MacOS in another just feels a bit weird.

What does an analysis involving MacOS have to do with Nintendo?

 

[onesvenus]

CmA doesn't see that way.
Because of Switch hardware, they can't get COD. So they won't get impacted by Activision purchase.

CoD not being on the switch is due to Activision not wanting to invest on a port and nothing else.
Doom had both last entries on switch, do you think CoD can't be downported?

 

[reksveks]

CmA doesn't see that way.
Because of Switch hardware, they can't get COD. So they won't get impacted by Activision purchase.

I know that and ultimately it is their decision.
Just respectfully disagree with their definition of a market.

I just think you can make similar arguments for MacOS/Apple Devices but they decided not to.

I think that's needlessly going down a rabbit hole to answer a question that was never really controversial until it was forced into the Activision Blizzard discussion. The fact that Nintendo doesn't sell the same type of games as the other consoles isn't new. Suddenly, Nintendo is a key factor when it comes to Call of Duty? Really trying to pound that square peg into around hole at that point.

I don't think it is needless if the analysis shows if the games that represents 90% of total engagement across all consoles are also on the Switch. Making that percentage up but using that sort of analysis, think you can definitely argue that the Switch is in the same market as COD. I wouldnt classify the question as controversial before or now.

Phase 2 is where they are going to have to quantify stuff so will be interesting if what comes out of that.

What does an analysis involving MacOS have to do with Nintendo?

If the CMA are arguing that Nintendo isnt in the relevant in their analysis of the console gaming market cause it doesn't get COD games.

How does their concerns about Windows dominance over cloud streaming or native gaming make sense? No native COD games on Linux or MacOS for a while, right?

Just want to add that I believe that there probably should be some concessions around Sony, Steam, GFN.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Switch could run CoD if Activision wanted to port it. Plenty of more demanding games have been ported.

 

[feynoob]

CoD not being on the switch is due to Activision not wanting to invest on a port and nothing else.
Doom had both last entries on switch, do you think CoD can't be downported?

Control is running on cloud on the switch.
It would be the same for COD.

 

[DenchDeckard]

If I am a gamer, who wants to play hardware demanding games. Switch would obsolete for me, due to hardware limitations.

It's not something, which time can fix.

Nintendo would need a new switch, like steam deck power.

Nintendo is competing with PS and Xbox in a general sense. They are not competing with them when comes to games like Call of Duty. Look at the games being sold on Xbox and PS. Outside of exclusives, they are the same. Look at the games being sold on Switch. Completely different. So yes, competing in the video game industry, but not for the same exact audience playing the same games as PS and Xbox.



But this has nothing to do with games like God of War R and Bayonetta 3. This is about third party games, specifically Call of Duty and no, you are not choosing between Switch and PS/Xbox to play games like that.

So when the next switch launches and it can run call of duty...does it then become a competitor.

This argument doesn't make sense to me....like call of duty decides if a platform is competition or not....

That's just wrong to me.

 

[feynoob]

If the CMA are arguing that Nintendo isnt in the relevant in their analysis of the console gaming market cause it doesn't get COD games.

How does their concerns about Windows dominance over cloud streaming or native gaming make sense? No native COD games on Linux or MacOS for a while, right?

Just want to add that I believe that there probably should be some concessions around Sony, Steam, GFN.

It's futile effort, to make it seem like they are challenging it.
They clearly know, it won't affect them that much.

 

[feynoob]

So when the next switch launches and it can run call of duty...does it then become a competitor.

This argument doesn't make sense to me....like call of duty decides if a platform is competition or not....

That's just wrong to me.

That is when switch would be able to get a share from those games.

Right now the userbase is xbox and PS.

 

[TheGodfather07]

CoD not being on the switch is due to Activision not wanting to invest on a port and nothing else.
Doom had both last entries on switch, do you think CoD can't be downported?

The main reason is because it doesn't sell on Nintendo hardware. That's not where the cod audience is. Activision would port it if it sold like 10m copies on switch.

 

[Topher]

I don't think it is needless if the analysis shows if the games that represents 90% of total engagement across all consoles are also on the Switch. Making that percentage up but using that sort of analysis, think you can definitely argue that the Switch is in the same market as COD. I wouldnt classify the question as controversial before or now.

I'll just go back to the games that sell on the different platforms. There is a clear separation between the games that sell on Xbox/PS and the games that sell on Switch.

If the CMA are arguing that Nintendo isnt in the relevant in their analysis of the console gaming market cause it doesn't get COD games.

How does their concerns about Windows dominance over cloud streaming or native gaming make sense? No native COD games on Linux or MacOS for a while, right?

I don't know. That's why I was asking you what MacOS has to do with it. But if you are making the argument that no native CoD on MacOS means MacOS isn't relevant then that argument works with Nintendo as well, right?

So when the next switch launches and it can run call of duty...does it then become a competitor.

This argument doesn't make sense to me....like call of duty decides if a platform is competition or not....

That's just wrong to me.

That assumes Call of Duty would become a dominant game on Switch like it is on Xbox and PS and I don't believe for a second that would be the case. I'd say that the biggest reason why Call of Duty isn't on Switch at all. Isn't worth Activision's effort.

 

[DenchDeckard]

That is when switch would be able to get a share from those games.

Right now the userbase is xbox and PS.

I'll just go back to the games that sell on the different platforms. There is a clear separation between the games that sell on Xbox/PS and the games that sell on Switch.



I don't know. That's why I was asking you what MacOS has to do with it. But if you are making the argument that no native CoD on MacOS means MacOS isn't relevant then that argument works with Nintendo as well, right?



That assumes Call of Duty would become a dominant game on Switch like it is on Xbox and PS and I don't believe for a second that would be the case. I'd say that the biggest reason why Call of Duty isn't on Switch at all. Isn't worth Activision's effort.

But what about PC in all this?

And you don't think cod would be big on switch? It would be huge! As long as it ran at 60 and looked pretty decent.

Say if the switch was half a series S with dlss. Like 2 tf or so....you could have a beast looking cod on that and running well.

Cross platform play and account...it would probably make people double dip if anything.

 

[phil_t98]

If I am a gamer, who wants to play hardware demanding games. Switch would obsolete for me, due to hardware limitations.

It's not something, which time can fix.

Nintendo would need a new switch, like steam deck power.

if call of duty comes out on the same day as a new Mario Kart they are competing. people will question what game they will get. the consoles compete with each other. not everybody goes for the best hardware. some people have all 3 some people have just one. look at the sales of Nintendo games its insane. Animal Crossing sold 40 mill copies. you can't tell me that isn't competing

 

[Pelta88]

if call of duty comes out on the same day as a new Mario Kart they are competing.

This is a false equivalency.

It's like saying children attended Kindergarten and children gearing up for college the next year, are getting the same education because they're being educated at the same time. Audience is a huge factor. In fact, in Microsoft's legal documents to the CMA it was revealed that XBOX doesn't track Nintendo because they're not vying for the same audience. While at the same time watching Playstation very closely.

Remember that during the Epic VS Apple court case it came out that Microsoft had an internal review team to review Playstation exclusives.

 

[Topher]

But what about PC in all this?

And you don't think cod would be big on switch? It would be huge! As long as it ran at 60 and looked pretty decent.

Say if the switch was half a series S with dlss. Like 2 tf or so....you could have a beast looking cod on that and running well.

Cross platform play and account...it would probably make people double dip if anything.

What about PC in all this? If Nintendo made some beefy console then yeah, you might have a point but that's not what Nintendo does. I'm talking about the Nintendo Switch of right now, not some imaginary device. If you think CoD would be huge on Switch then I just don't think you understand why people buy Switch.

 

[phil_t98]

This is a false equivalency.

It's like saying children attended Kindergarten and children gearing up for college the next year, are getting the same education because they're being educated at the same time. Audience is a huge factor. In fact, in Microsoft's legal documents to the CMA XBOX doesn't track Nintendo because they're not vying for the same audience. While at the same time watching Playstation very closely.

Remember that during the Epic VS Apple court case it came out that Microsoft had an internal review team to review Playstation exclusives.

both systems are competing for your money. simple as that, not everybody has the money to buy every game they want. just because you don't have to make they choice others do. Nintendo games sell bucket loads

 

[feynoob]

if call of duty comes out on the same day as a new Mario Kart they are competing. people will question what game they will get. the consoles compete with each other. not everybody goes for the best hardware. some people have all 3 some people have just one. look at the sales of Nintendo games its insane. Animal Crossing sold 40 mill copies. you can't tell me that isn't competing

That is not competition.

It's like a PS/xbox users seeing other console exclusive console on sale with COD.
They would pick the game, they are going to play on that console.

You cant play switch games on other consoles. Just like how you can't play cod on switch. 2 different things.

 

[phil_t98]

That is not competition.

It's like a PS/xbox users seeing other console exclusive console on sale with COD.
They would pick the game, they are going to play on that console.

You cant play switch games on other consoles. Just like how you can't play cod on switch. 2 different things.

it is competing. if three games come out in a week, an xbox game a ps5 and a Nintendo game all different games they are all wanting my money. they all want to be the place where I spend my money. how is that not competing

 

[feynoob]

But what about PC in all this?

And you don't think cod would be big on switch? It would be huge! As long as it ran at 60 and looked pretty decent.

Say if the switch was half a series S with dlss. Like 2 tf or so....you could have a beast looking cod on that and running well.

Cross platform play and account...it would probably make people double dip if anything.

Pc plays everything.

The problem here is that switch is a weak hardware. This results in big games unable to be ported to this device. The only way to play them, is cloud.

This is control on switch.

In order to play the game, you'll need a Nintendo Account to access cloud service and “a persistent high-speed internet connection to play the game.” (It includes similar technology to Stadia and Luna, but Control's cloud game will be handled by Ubitus.)Oct 28, 2020

 

[reksveks]

But if you are making the argument that no native CoD on MacOS means MacOS isn't relevant then that argument works with Nintendo as well, right?

I am not making that argument, just pointing out what I believe to be the logical inconsistencies of the CMA

 

[Pelta88]

both systems are competing for your money. simple as that, not everybody has the money to buy every game they want. just because you don't have to make they choice others do. Nintendo games sell bucket loads

What even is this post?!

You went from saying Mario Kart and COD would compete if they were released on the same day, to this? Again if you take a moment to read the legally binding submissions made to the regulatory boards instead of insisting that your opinion is correct the conversation might be better suited.

Two items being on the market and available ate the same time does not mean they're in direct competition.

 

[Topher]

I am not making that argument, just pointing out what I believe to be the logical inconsistencies of the CMA

Ok, that's fine. Like I said, I haven't delved into the OS aspect of their findings. And I'm also of the opinion that PS would indeed compete fine without Call of Duty. I just don't think point to Nintendo proves that.

 

[feynoob]

it is competing. if three games come out in a week, an xbox game a ps5 and a Nintendo game all different games they are all wanting my money. they all want to be the place where I spend my money. how is that not competing

But there are only 3 devices where you can play hardware demanding 3rd party games. Switch isn't part of that.

 

[phil_t98]

What even is this post?!

You went from saying Mario Kart and COD would compete if they were released on the same day, to this? Again if you take a moment to read the legally binding submissions made to the regulatory boards instead of insisting that your opinion is correct the conversation might be better suited.

Two items being on the market and available ate the same time does not mean they're in direct competition.

so where am I wrong. they are console games, they are wanting to get YOUR money. if they don't compete do we have different charts for Nintendo games and then a chart for PS5 and xbox games together? No we don't we have the same charts. just because Microsoft don't track Nintendo doesn't men they are not competing against them

 

[phil_t98]

But there are only 3 devices where you can play hardware demanding 3rd party games. Switch isn't part of that.

so because the switch is not top end you say it isn't competing? how many copies of Mario Kart switch has they sold? how many copies of animal crossing have they sold?

they are competing at selling games simple as that

 

[feynoob]

so because the switch is not top end you say it isn't competing? how many copies of Mario Kart switch has they sold? how many copies of animal crossing have they sold?

they are competing at selling games simple as that

Why does switch eexclusives concern me, as a player who wants to play those games?
If I want those 3rd party games, I would buy it on those devices. Not on Switch.

 

[Pelta88]

so where am I wrong. they are console games, they are wanting to get YOUR money. if they don't compete do we have different charts for Nintendo games and then a chart for PS5 and xbox games together? No we don't we have the same charts. just because Microsoft don't track Nintendo doesn't men they are not competing against them

The issue here is not that "you're wrong." The issue is that you're conflating being in the same market with being in direct competition.

While both consoles track as similar Skews and have sales reported in the same way. That still doesn't mean they directly compete. Go to your local Movie Theater. The latest Disney offering and Bond film are shown at the same time (Obviously on different screens) and are even tracked via Box Office. But I promise you, That Bond and Disney Film are not in direct competition. And both are targetting completely different demographics.

Despite opening on the same weekend.

 

[Darsxx82]

The issue here is not that "you're wrong." The issue is that you're conflating being in the same market with being in direct competition.

While both consoles track as similar Skews and have sales reported in the same way. That still doesn't mean they directly compete. Go to your local Movie Theater. The latest Disney offering and Bond film are shown at the same time (Obviously on different screens) and are even tracked via Box Office. But I promise you, That Bond and Disney Film are not in direct competition. And both are targetting completely different demographics.

Despite opening on the same weekend.

Switch is not the Disney movie, it is the movie theater that offers that movie and many others of different genres as well.
It competes with other movie theaters that also offer Disney movies.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

That is not what I am saying.

If phill keeps saying: "CoD on PlayStation"

therefore, he is not going to have any issue signing that condition. when and if such condition is necessary for this deal to be approved.

Okay then, so Phil lied! Now if you wanna play COD natively they purchase an Xbox. Then what?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Let me put it in this way:

If you buy an Xbox, it could substitute a PlayStation.(And vice-versa).

A Nintendos is not a PlayStation or Xbox replacement.

Edit: breath of the wild Image quality on TV is fucking hideous...imagine Horizon Zero dawn having the same level of graphics...

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Okay then, so Phil lied! Now if you wanna play COD natively they purchase an Xbox. Then what?

Not the point.

 

[adamsapple]

CMA: ?

 

[feynoob]

CMA: ?

That is $6b a year. Wow.

Apple is seriously making insane money here.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Let me put it in this way:

If you buy an Xbox, it could substitute a PlayStation.(And vice-versa).

A Nintendos is not a PlayStation or Xbox

Well yeah, this is how it’s been since pretty much the Wii days.
A Nintendo system will always compliment one of the others or it’s possible that all three compliment each other also.
I’d make a case also that an Xbox and PlayStation will also compliment each other also.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I’d make a case also that an Xbox and PlayStation will also compliment each other also.

Everything can complement each other.

Smartphones, Swtich, Play station, Xbox, ouya, PC, steam deck and so on and so forth.

But that is not the point.

Xbox and PlayStation are closer to each other than Nintendos.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Nintendo is barely in competition with Sony or Microsoft. Their libraries are entirely different. Someone who wants to play mario or zelda, doesn't even consider an xbox or ps. Someone who wants to play cod or the latest assasains creed doesn't even consider the switch. They're in the same industry but they don't directly compete against eachother.

 

[Topher]

CMA: ?

What's the relevance to CMA?

 

[phil_t98]

Why does switch eexclusives concern me, as a player who wants to play those games?
If I want those 3rd party games, I would buy it on those devices. Not on Switch.

just because you and individual do not want to play those games does not mean they aint competing in the same market. what's the point of software sales charts then?

 

[feynoob]

just because you and individual do not want to play those games does not mean they aint competing in the same market. what's the point of software sales charts then?

Please learn the difference between 1st party and 3rd party games.

 

[phil_t98]

The issue here is not that "you're wrong." The issue is that you're conflating being in the same market with being in direct competition.

While both consoles track as similar Skews and have sales reported in the same way. That still doesn't mean they directly compete. Go to your local Movie Theater. The latest Disney offering and Bond film are shown at the same time (Obviously on different screens) and are even tracked via Box Office. But I promise you, That Bond and Disney Film are not in direct competition. And both are targetting completely different demographics.

Despite opening on the same weekend.

they are both vying for your money. how do you not see that?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

they are both vying for your money.

In different ways.

 

[Topher]

just because you and individual do not want to play those games does not mean they aint competing in the same market. what's the point of software sales charts then?

Call of Duty is directly competing with games of its type and genre. Let's not pretend someone is going to walk into a store looking for a competitive military online shooter and walk out with Mario Kart.

This is getting absurd.

 

[GHG]

What's the relevance to CMA?

Nothing unless Microsoft are suddenly going to say they are pivoting their Xbox business to focus on mobile gaming.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Everything can complement each other.

Smartphones, Swtich, Play station, Xbox, ouya, PC, steam deck and so on and so forth.

But that is not the point.

Xbox and PlayStation are closer to each other than Nintendos.

My man, I do get it. This is what Nintendo has been this entire century. But let’s go back in time and for me the last time Nintendo was competitive with other video game systems has to be the SNES. Hey they tried with the Nintendo 64 but let’s be honest here, even for me at the age of 19 in 96’ knew that the Nintendo that I grew up with was no longer there.

I mean PlayStation releases in December of 94 and the 64 comes almost 2 years after the fact.

 

[phil_t98]

Everything can complement each other.

Smartphones, Swtich, Play station, Xbox, ouya, PC, steam deck and so on and so forth.

But that is not the point.

Xbox and PlayStation are closer to each other than Nintendos.

But smart phone games ain’t compared in the same chart as Xbox PS and switch. At the moment they are so they are competing for market space