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Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


  • Total voters
    886
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

gothmog

Gold Member
Okay, I concede that the 5th amendment applies, but it's still FUD. If you read the process: https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/mission/enforcement-authority

The appeals process to the FTC allows either side a chance to appeal. After the final ruling there still the ability to appeal to a higher court. Not sure how that denies due process. You can still continue to appeal this up the chain. The administrative process is to allow companies to negotiate concessions in order to settle the FTC's concerns that make it illegal.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
Okay, I concede that the 5th amendment applies, but it's still FUD. If you read the process: https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/mission/enforcement-authority

The appeals process to the FTC allows either side a chance to appeal. After the final ruling there still the ability to appeal to a higher court. Not sure how that denies due process. You can still continue to appeal this up the chain. The administrative process is to allow companies to negotiate concessions in order to settle the FTC's concerns that make it illegal.

Cause the FTC gets to be judge, jury, and appellet.

Whether that's right I don't know, but MS wants nothing more to get this into a district court where they definitely have things in their favor.
 

feynoob

Member
Okay, I concede that the 5th amendment applies, but it's still FUD. If you read the process: https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/mission/enforcement-authority

The appeals process to the FTC allows either side a chance to appeal. After the final ruling there still the ability to appeal to a higher court. Not sure how that denies due process. You can still continue to appeal this up the chain. The administrative process is to allow companies to negotiate concessions in order to settle the FTC's concerns that make it illegal.
The issue is FTC didn't even bother having a meeting with MS and talk with them.
 

gothmog

Gold Member
Cause the FTC gets to be judge, jury, and appellet.

Whether that's right I don't know, but MS wants nothing more to get this into a district court where they definitely have things in their favor.
"A Commission order (except an order to divest assets) generally becomes final (i.e., binding on the respondent) 60 days after it is served, unless the order is stayed by the Commission or by a reviewing court."

Sounds like anyone in this process has the right to appeal to an internal review and then a higher court if they need to. Due process is generally having awareness of how the law works (the process is well spelled out on the FTC website and supporting underlying acts/laws) and the ability to defend themselves against the charges including presenting evidence and witnesses (which the process allows). Seems like a reach.

Agreed that they want to get this out of the FTC and into a likely bought district court.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
your points are fair and all but SenjutsuSage SenjutsuSage isn't wrong, infact he's right to a fault

Microsoft does grant their studios a lot of freedom but the result is a lack of true cohesion and direction. When there's no true deadline or pressure to get shit done it can result in games taking FOREVER to come out, not to mention that a lot of these studios don't really work with each other the same way Sony studios do (likely as a result of them being acquired on a whim rather than having a relationship with the parent company) so stuff that would take 3 years for say Naughty Dog takes 6 years for a studio like Ninja Theory (and it's also probably why Hellblade 2 is taking as long as it is)

The issue IS the freedom, and while i'd never want them to go back to their kinect dystopian ways of forcing their best fucking studio to work on Kinect games, they have to strike a balance. A balance that's only learned when you've truly interacted with these studios enough to understand their work culture and a balance that helps them be the most efficient and produce the most quality games. That balance is exclusive to organic growth which a lot of MS studios do not have. As a result most of the games they're working on are in development hell and all of their most anticipated projects we aren't going to be seeing for the next 2 or 3 years.

also, tomorrow is my birthday. completely unrelated but i thought i'd mention that.
Treat yourself by taking a proud day off so your birthday won't be ruined by this thread.

And happy birthday!
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
The FTC being able to appeal to itself if it doesn't get the result it wants is the weirdest thing.
2eee1-e1484114115388.jpg
 
Nobody else gets to do this. This concept that Microsoft keeps bringing up around being able to keep explaining things until the other party agrees that Microsoft is right is something that other entities have not enjoyed throughout the years of FTC looking into mergers.
If the FTC is concerned about what a company is doing it would be in their best interest to actually speak to that company to get a better understanding of what is happening. Otherwise you may end up filing ridiculous claims about markets that never existed like the 'high performance console market' they created for this case. It makes them look silly and can end up with them losing power like what may happen next summer at the Supreme Court.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
"A Commission order (except an order to divest assets) generally becomes final (i.e., binding on the respondent) 60 days after it is served, unless the order is stayed by the Commission or by a reviewing court."

Sounds like anyone in this process has the right to appeal to an internal review and then a higher court if they need to. Due process is generally having awareness of how the law works (the process is well spelled out on the FTC website and supporting underlying acts/laws) and the ability to defend themselves against the charges including presenting evidence and witnesses (which the process allows). Seems like a reach.

Agreed that they want to get this out of the FTC and into a likely bought district court.
I like how you make it sound as if the congressionally confirmed district court judges are "bought" but the congressionally confirmed bureaucrats on the FTC aren't.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
This is why they need Activision - God knows they can pump out AAA titles - they may often be subpar but they come out on schedule.
They can do that but by acquiring Activision they are taking money away to focus on that publisher and their studio, when they could be using that money to establish a better relationship and better management in their first party studios who desperately need the better management. Buying activison isn't gonna make development of Everwild and hellblade 2 speed up, proper supervision and management will.
 

feynoob

Member
Nobody else gets to do this. This concept that Microsoft keeps bringing up around being able to keep explaining things until the other party agrees that Microsoft is right is something that other entities have not enjoyed throughout the years of FTC looking into mergers.
That doesnt give the FTC the right to make a decision, without listening to the other party.
The FTC is overstepping their boundary here.
 
They can do that but by acquiring Activision they are taking money away to focus on that publisher and their studio, when they could be using that money to establish a better relationship and better management in their first party studios who desperately need the better management. Buying activison isn't gonna make development of Everwild and hellblade 2 speed up, proper supervision and management will.
Why is there a belief that MS can only do one thing at a time? Is there any indication that MS first party studios need more money thrown at them? Why can't those current studios benefit from Activision once it is acquired if management experience is needed?
 

gothmog

Gold Member
I like how you make it sound as if the congressionally confirmed district court judges are "bought" but the congressionally confirmed bureaucrats on the FTC aren't.
FTC uses administrative judges, which are independent and tasked to a) take evidence and b) make initial decisions among other things: https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/office-administrative-law-judges. Not saying that they can't be corrupted, but in general they tend to hold to the task given to them and the FTC's charters and acts that allow it to function. I believe the Chief judge has not exactly been an ally to the rest of the FTC as his judgements have often been against it.

District courts on the other hand are not necessarily equal. There's a reason corporations incorporate in Delaware because the laws and courts are friendly to business. In fact, there's no jury and many cases are handled by a collection of judges who specialize in business law which is unusual. There are other districts that are considered friendlier to a more conservative or liberal interpretation of whatever the legal issue at hand is. Microsoft wants to be there so they have a chance to get it moved to a jurisdiction that would be more friendly to them. It does not mean they will win on appeal, but getting that initial win in court is important.
 

freefornow

Member
From her column...

'They prohibit mergers that “may substantially lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly.”'

So the FTC is saying that this acquisition will "substantially lessen competition" and thus, illegal. What must be determined in this process is whether this is or is not the case.
Wont the FTC need to prove that it "will" lessen competition and "will" create a monopoly.
Feel like "may" and "tend" are legally weak.

But i know nothing about acquisition law or howmthey are argued in court (if it goes that far)
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Why can't those current studios benefit from Activision once it is acquired if management experience is needed?
because we haven't seen any of that management experience go to the other studios when it comes to well oiled studios like Playground games and Bethesda. What makes you think they're gonna do so for Activision? MS has more than enough studios that are actually well managed, to let some of the knowledge seep into the other studios, and accelerate game development. They haven't been doing jack shit, though.
Is there any indication that MS first party studios need more money thrown at them?
yes and it's pretty obvious judging by the first party output of said studios which have been taking forever. Hellblade 2 has taken longer to develop than God of War Ragnarok, and God of War came out after Hellblade 1.
 

feynoob

Member
yes and it's pretty obvious judging by the first party output of said studios which have been taking forever. Hellblade 2 has taken longer to develop than God of War Ragnarok, and God of War came out after Hellblade 1.
That is not the same.
Santa monica has the tools and support studios, not to mention more head count compared to ninja theory.
Sony's "gone gold" announcement also contained a graphic that shows Santa Monica Studio was supported by eight other studios for Ragnarok's development. These included PlayStation Studios Creative Arts, Valkyrie Entertainment, Bluepoint Games, Red Hot, Super Alloy, Jetpack Interactive, Super Genius, and Original Force.Oct 7, 2022

Also ninja theory moved to a new building.
 

gothmog

Gold Member
Wont the FTC need to prove that it "will" lessen competition and "will" create a monopoly.
Feel like "may" and "tend" are legally weak.

But i know nothing about acquisition law or howmthey are argued in court (if it goes that far)
No. It's about the future, so you only have to show a high risk or probability. CMA called it theories of harm. Microsoft has a long history of anti-competitive behavior as well as a history of thumbing their nose at it. I would imagine each of those increases the risk.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Santa monica has the tools and support studios, not to mention more head count compared to ninja theory.
and that is what i mean. MS needs to invest more into the studios they already have rather than desperately trying to buy up everyone else. They're abandoning their actual first party studios in their mad dash to acquire everything and the result is that their studios are having a hard time trying to get the products they promised out on time. If MS skipped activision and focused on helping out Ninja theory and providing them more resources, hyping up Hellblade 2 more, etc, the game probably would have a release date by now.
 
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feynoob

Member
and that is what i mean. MS needs to invest more into the studios they already have rather than desperately trying to buy up everyone else. They're abandoning their actual first party studios in their made chase to acquire everything and the result is that their studios are having a hard time trying to get the products they promised out on time
Acquisiion started 2018. Studios need time to settle down. MS needs to invest in them in term of increasing their head count, moving to a new building, or increasing their production capacity.
All these take time. Covid slowed down some of these process.
Not to mention, some of those studios had games released before their aquisiiton.

It will take time for all their acquired studios to settle down, and start bumping up those games.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
because we haven't seen any of that management experience go to the other studios when it comes to well oiled studios like Playground games and Bethesda. What makes you think they're gonna do so for Activision? MS has more than enough studios that are actually well managed, to let some of the knowledge seep into the other studios, and accelerate game development. They haven't been doing jack shit, though.

yes and it's pretty obvious judging by the first party output of said studios which have been taking forever. Hellblade 2 has taken longer to develop than God of War Ragnarok, and God of War came out after Hellblade 1.
Outside hell blade 2 there is no forever for the 2018 studios. Unless you think inexile and double fine should release games in 1 or 2 years after their last release. The outer worlds was released in 2019. So 3 years is hardly for ever. Santa Monica was already a huge AAA studio. Going from AA to AAA is not instant. Can we compare forza horizon and GT releases and say sony sucks at management? Its not like Microsoft bought 7 Insomniac level studios. They bought 1 top end studio 1 who was great before lack of capital decayed them and 3 good AA studios who had financial issues and 2 AA fixer upers
 

gothmog

Gold Member
Please share a video of you popping a bottle of champagne if that happens, clearly you're looking forward to it :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Lol. Hey, I love GamePass and my Series X but I don't think this acquisition is good for the industry or honestly Xbox. I think it will do all the wrong things to the industry and give a lot of people over at Xbox a pass on their lack of management skill.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Acquisiion started 2018. Studios need time to settle down. MS needs to invest in them in term of increasing their head count, moving to a new building, or increasing their production capacity.
insomniac was acquired in 2019, just one year after. since then they've produced 2 next gen games which are visually top of the industry and take full advantage of the PS5's superior rendering quality. They're getting ready to release Spiderman 2, as well.
They bought 1 top end studio 1 who was great before lack of capital decayed them and 3 good AA studios who had financial issues and 2 AA fixer upers
and if MS doesn't invest in them properly they will remain in the states that they're in. which this acquisition is preventing them from doing
 
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feynoob

Member
insomniac was acquired in 2019, just one year after. since then they've produced 2 next gen games which are visually top of the industry and take full advantage of the PS5's superior rendering quality. They're getting ready to release Spiderman 2, as well.
Insomniac was working with Sony during that time, which sped up the process.
None of these studios were working with MS, aside of their internal studios which they bought during that time.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Lol. Hey, I love GamePass and my Series X but I don't think this acquisition is good for the industry or honestly Xbox. I think it will do all the wrong things to the industry and give a lot of people over at Xbox a pass on their lack of management skill.

I think regardless of acquisition, it'd be a good long term investment to get one of each Xbox or PS platforms for this generation so you have full coverage.

And the gen will last till like 2028~ so it's a good long investment.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Insomniac was working with Sony during that time, which sped up the process.
None of these studios were working with MS, aside of their internal studios which they bought during that time.
well it just ends up coming back to what i initially said
You need organic growth to properly get these studios to their top tier as efficiently and quickly as possible. Ninja Theory didn't work with Xbox before the fact, so when they get into Xbox they have to go undergo this long fucking shift of getting acclimated to the company and 'settling down' but you never heard that with Insomniac because they were already in cahoots with Sony.
 
The general consensus/impression is that the FTC will file an injunction in the federal court when the completion date draws near.

MS can't close the deal before that anyway, because the regulators across the world (including the FTC) have to approve it first. So it really is up to the FTC. They know when they'll approve it (or not), and when exactly they can file in the Federal court.

It's stretching to 2024, at least, anyway, unless Microsoft makes huge concessions and eliminates regulators' concerns. So lots of time for everything.

If the FTC files any injunction in federal court to block they will lose their case. That's not what their plan is. Their goal is to predictably lose in their Administrative Law Judge case, they appeal it to themselves, arrive at the exact same decision again, and then it goes to an appeals court, where Microsoft will naturally lose because the appeal isn't really about the merits of the case, but more looks at procedural wrongdoings, which there won't be any, so the FTC's decision to block the deal will be affirmed in a federal appeals court, which they always are.

However, that doesn't end it. The FTC won a similar such case against Axon, yet Axon still retains everything in its acquisition to this day, but has taken its fight to the Supreme Court.

The FTC is hoping for the exact same drawn-out process as with Axon. The FTC has been playing that same song and dance with Axon Enterprises since 2018. Their case was finally argued before the Supreme Court November 7th this year.

https://www.consumerfinancemonitor....nal-challenges-to-ftcs-enforcement-authority/

What will actually occur is the Supreme Court will issue a decision in Axon Enterprises vs FTC May or June next year. That case has direct implications for the Microsoft and Activision deal, potentially immediately allowing Microsoft's deal to clear in the most extreme outcome (if Supreme Court decides to punish the FTC for all the cases it has already put into its administrative proceedings instead of immediately filing for a court injunction). And in the least extreme outcome, but an outcome that is still not good for the FTC, Microsoft wins the right to immediately take its case to a federal district court, giving them an opportunity to have a solution that's favorable by 2023 or 2024 the latest. Microsoft might still be allowed to close, or depending on the judge, Microsoft may be ordered to withhold from closing while the case is pending. Either way, Microsoft prefers this route to dealing with the FTC stall tactic with Lina Khan for years.

The FTC wants to basically stall and delay Microsoft and Activision Blizzard well into 2026-2027 as they have done Axon Enterprises since 2018.

There is no scenario in my opinion where the Conservative 6-3 majority rules in favor of the FTC here, especially since doing so would counter the Chief Justice's opinion in a previous decision. The question is how aggressive will the Supreme Court be in ruling against the FTC. I suspect the Supreme Court is getting ready to make a major constitutional change of the structure of the FTC, leaving the FTC with but one avenue to block mergers or transactions of this nature, the same one available to DOJ, taking it to district court via an injunction.


your points are fair and all but SenjutsuSage SenjutsuSage isn't wrong, infact he's right to a fault

Microsoft does grant their studios a lot of freedom but the result is a lack of true cohesion and direction. When there's no true deadline or pressure to get shit done it can result in games taking FOREVER to come out, not to mention that a lot of these studios don't really work with each other the same way Sony studios do (likely as a result of them being acquired on a whim rather than having a relationship with the parent company) so stuff that would take 3 years for say Naughty Dog takes 6 years for a studio like Ninja Theory (and it's also probably why Hellblade 2 is taking as long as it is)

The issue IS the freedom, and while i'd never want them to go back to their kinect dystopian ways of forcing their best fucking studio to work on Kinect games, they have to strike a balance. A balance that's only learned when you've truly interacted with these studios enough to understand their work culture and a balance that helps them be the most efficient and produce the most quality games. That balance is exclusive to organic growth which a lot of MS studios do not have. As a result most of the games they're working on are in development hell and all of their most anticipated projects we aren't going to be seeing for the next 2 or 3 years.

also, tomorrow is my birthday. completely unrelated but i thought i'd mention that.

Organic growth stuff is largely fan fiction. I hope you realize that. We really should stop hearing it by now, but it still comes. You make assumptions about the studio culture and ability to produce when every studio acquired has sung a different tune and has even improved on its games since being acquired. Double Fine with Psychonauts 2. InXile with Wasteland 3, Obsidian has been firing on all cylinders. Playground is killing it so far. Undead Labs has kept improving State of Decay 2, Bethesda hasn't skipped a beat and has been producing at multiple levels. Fallout 76 is in its best state in forever and even gaining new players. Rare is enjoying the most success it has had in its entire existence with Sea of Thieves. Various teams have even grown larger for bigger projects since the acquisition. InXile has a very ambitious project in the making. Coalition has been reliable since inception, so has Turn 10 and 343i. All have consistently delivered great games over the years. 343i's longest ever gap was the first time they had to build a Halo for multiple target specs, including PC. It was also a total re-invention of the Halo Campaign formula and their first move to a free to play live service model for MP. New MP features that were never there before such as academy, training mode/bots etc. Far more ambitious forge compared to years prior with scripting. Santa Monica needed 5 years for God of War 2018 because it was a whole sale re-invention for the God of War formula. 343i took one year more than Santa Monica Studio needed for God of War 2018, a singleplayer title, and did so amidst a global pandemic while making the most ambitious Halo Campaign yet with entirely new gameplay features, and launched it alongside a major multi-player component. Xbox One/S/X + Xbox Series Consoles + PC. 6 years. Whatever features they lacked at launch were more than made up for by all the features that have never been part of Halo in its entire existence before at launch in 2021.

The funny part is this nonsense persists only because Xbox simply didn't have a real budget again till around 2018. 2021 was a massive year for Xbox First Party. How do people square such results with the claim that Xbox first party hasn't delivered at all ever? We will probably hear nonsense like "those games don't count, they were already in development" And yet all studios say Microsoft made their games BETTER.

https://screenrant.com/microsoft-double-fine-psychonauts-2-boss-fights/


The negativity about Microsoft's management of its studios has been fan fiction the whole time. All the studios are just working. Their games release when they're ready, just like it has been for Sony for years with every defense in the book for their studios taking their time.



Microsoft's support has reportedly allowed them to add far more voice acting to the in-game dialog, and ultimately create a better version of the game they originally set out to make with the over $3 million the game earned through its Fig crowdfunding campaign. "Microsoft has a user research lab, which is going to give us feedback on the UI and what people are experiencing," Fargo says. "And they have their localisation groups and their QA groups… I could go on, but you have to understand that it is allowing us to make a more robust product."

In a recent interview, studio founder Brian Fargo has spoken about Microsoft's purchase of the company, and has made it clear that they've essentially let them do their thing, albeit with the added financial safety net that a major publisher can provide.

Talking to Gamesradar+, Fargo explained that Microsoft propped the company up with money and then left them to their own devices. "Microsoft basically came in, gave us a tonne of cash, and said go and make the best game that you possibly can," he said. Similarly, game director Tim Campbell says that the buyout "hasn't changed the game (they) are making at all." He acknowledges that it's reasonable for people to expect otherwise, but assures Gamesradar+ that "Microsoft is just helping us do what we do but better, right?"

https://wccftech.com/inxile-microsoft-trusts-us-were-making-wasteland-3-better/

Campbell: I can say on the team level, the development side, we’re ecstatic for the partnership with Microsoft, we are absolutely making the game [Wasteland 3] that we want to make and we’re making it better than we would have been able to by ourselves.

Fargo: Yeah, I think we’re fortunate because Microsoft trusts us. I think that’s always a concern when companies get bought, that’s what they think. There’s a natural sense of ‘There goes the company now’. But really, they’re like, we trust you. I mean, even when I start talking about what we want to do in the future, beyond that, I start describing in detail and they go ‘We trust him’.

We’re sharing with all the studios. I mean, we talked to the guys at The Coalition. If we’re doing something that involves shooting, we’ll pick up the phone and talk to them. If we want to do anything with water, you know, we’ll talk to the guys doing Sea of Thieves and go ‘Hey, just tell us about your water technology’. So that’s what’s great. I mean, everybody’s like ‘Kumbaya’, everybody is sharing everything that they’re up to, we’re in constant communication, and we all want to help each other with our craft.

Anyone can grab a few ex-employees or current employees and find something negative to say. Similar stories have been written about Insomniac, about Naughty Dog. Multiple employees have come and gone from every top studio in the industry, but when someone leaves an Xbox studio it's breaking news like on CNN lol. Most of the supposed troubles inside Microsoft studios has been exaggerated. Too much creative freedom and too much of a hands-off approach while they make games you say? Utter garbage. If too much micro-management is needed then the studio has problems beyond that. For all that has been said about 343i, they still never fail to make a game that plays incredible. I don't think Halo fans care to hear from non-Halo fans who have been saying Halo is dead for years (dead but #10 most played game worldwide on Xbox Series consoles) that they don't want anymore Halo game. Go play what you play and leave us Halo fans to keep enjoying more Master Chief stories.

And why the hell would Hellblade 2 be finished already if they only just became able to make something as big as Hellblade 2 with AAA standards once they were acquired by Microsoft in 2018? It has literally been 4 years now since Microsoft acquired Ninja Theory, and one of those years was massively affected by a global pandemic. Next year is going to be stacked with first party games. Nobody cares about this organic, non-organic nonsense. The games release, people play the games and have fun. The end.
 
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feynoob

Member
well it just ends up coming back to what i initially said
You need organic growth to properly get these studios to their top tier as efficiently and quickly as possible. Ninja Theory didn't work with Xbox before the fact, so when they get into Xbox they have to go undergo this long fucking shift of getting acclimated to the company and 'settling down' but you never heard that with Insomniac because they were already in cahoots with Sony.
Edit. You are right

MS would need studios like moon studio, or asobo for that.
 
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because we haven't seen any of that management experience go to the other studios when it comes to well oiled studios like Playground games and Bethesda. What makes you think they're gonna do so for Activision? MS has more than enough studios that are actually well managed, to let some of the knowledge seep into the other studios, and accelerate game development. They haven't been doing jack shit, though.
I think there is a tendency to pick in choose when we are name calling MS for 'poor management' Obsidian and the Coliation also have shown a tendency to get out projects in good time. Regardless of what is said about the time taken the quality of the games has been good so again there is a bit of a typical 'MS is bad' narrative being told. Even 343i's last game rated well and the winter update was well received.
yes and it's pretty obvious judging by the first party output of said studios which have been taking forever. Hellblade 2 has taken longer to develop than God of War Ragnarok, and God of War came out after Hellblade 1.
We have no idea how many people are working on Hellblade 2. It looked like there were multiple support studios working on God Of War. If anything that seems like another reason to support the acquisition. Activision has a history of using support studios to get things out faster. That could help with many of the projects MS is working on.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Insomniac= Temporary worker to full time employee.
Ninja theory= New employee

Tell me, which one is easier to integrate with the system.
yes exactly that's what i fucking mean. Now tell me, how much different would things be if Ninja Theory were a Temporary Worker -> full time employee.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
MS would need studios like moon studio, or asobo for that.
FINALLY, YOU GET IT

that's what i've been saying this entire fucking time. And yes, Moon Studio and Asobo are far superior choices to activision for acquisition. Those 2 have worked side by side with Xbox and have made titles exclusively for the Xbox brand over the years and they have benefitted from Microsoft's 'fuck you' levels of money. If MS treated Ninja Theory the same way they did for those studios the acquisition would have gone by much smoother and Hellblade 2 would be out by now. That's organic growth. That's the 'myth' that DarkMage619 DarkMage619 wants you to believe doesn't exist
 

feynoob

Member
R reksveks

https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...nprecedented-us-challenge-mergers-2022-12-27/

NEW YORK/WASHINGTON, Dec 27 (Reuters) - Investment bankers and deal lawyers accustomed to regulatory hurdles to their mergers face an unprecedented challenge under U.S. President Joe Biden - antitrust watchdogs who are undaunted when they lose such battles in court.

The U.S. Justice Department and Federal Trade Commission (FTC) have attempted to thwart 22 mergers since Biden came into office in January 2021, according to a Reuters review of announcements from the agencies.

That outnumbers the antitrust challenges during the first two years of former President Barack Obama's first term in office and is twice as many as in Donald Trump's first two years, the Reuters analysis shows.

While comprehensive data going back decades is unavailable, Joel Grosberg, an antitrust lawyer at McDermott, Will & Emery LLP, said more mergers are entangled in U.S. antitrust litigation now than at any point in his 25-year career.

"It's a combination of the FTC and (Justice Department) being willing to litigate and the fact that companies are fighting back," Grosberg said.

The DOJ and the FTC managed to stop 15 out of the 22 deals, many without a court fight as companies gave up and walked away from their agreement. More recently, they have lost four attempts to block mergers in court, though they are appealing two of the cases.

These losses have not soured regulators' appetite for challenging mergers. Biden's appointees - FTC Chair Lina Khan and DoJ antitrust chief Jonathan Kanter - are pressing on, arguing that corporate consolidation has gone too far, harming consumers and workers at a time of rampant inflation.

"Without question, what is clear about this team compared to their predecessors is that they are not haunted by the possibility that they might lose these cases," said former FTC chair and George Washington University Law School antitrust professor William Kovacic.

Kanter told U.S. lawmakers in September his department would not "back down from bringing meritorious cases." In a letter in August, Khan told Senator Elizabeth Warren she believed asset sales to remedy competition issues with mergers frequently fell short.

In response to a request for comment, an FTC spokesperson referred Reuters to recent comments that Khan made in her congressional testimony in September about the effects of past consolidation and the need for stronger enforcement.

The Justice Department declined to comment further, referring Reuters to recent public comments from Kanter on the subject.

The biggest deal currently at stake is Microsoft Corp's (MSFT.O) $69 billion bid for "Call of Duty" maker Activision Blizzard Inc (ATVI.O). The FTC has sued to stop it, arguing it would allow Microsoft's Xbox to get exclusive access to Activision games and put it in a position to dominate the gaming market. Microsoft is fighting back and last week told a judge the deal would benefit gamers and gaming companies alike.

Cary Kochman, global co-head of M&A at Citigroup (C.N), said deals are taking longer to be approved, forcing companies to "dribble the ball" and "delay engagement on potential transactions" until the regulatory landscape becomes clearer." Citigroup was not an advisor on the Microsoft-Activision deal.

BRACING FOR BATTLE​

Bankers and lawyers are advising merger partners to prepare for long battles with regulators. They are pushing for contracts with more time to complete a deal, to account for the possibility of antitrust lawsuits.

"As you're negotiating things like interim operating covenants that govern what you can and cannot do between signing and closing, you should view them through the lens of having to live with them for 12 to 18 months in some cases," said Melissa Sawyer, global head of the M&A group at law firm Sullivan & Cromwell.

Break-up fees that acquirers agree to pay their targets if their deal gets shot down by antitrust regulators are also on the rise. This year's U.S. total of $22.6 billion accounts for 4.6% of deal value, according to Refinitiv, the highest level since the first eight months of 2013, when dealmakers worried about Obama's antitrust crackdown.

Many companies facing merger challenges say they will fight on, emboldened by the four court losses of the Justice Department and FTC. These include lawsuits to thwart health insurer UnitedHealth Group Inc's (UNH.N) $8 billion bid to buy health-technology firm Change Healthcare and life sciences company Illumina Inc 's (ILMN.O) $7.1 billion acquisition of cancer test developer Grail.

"For the vast majority of deals, when we assess them from an antitrust perspective, we as advisors believe those deals can get done," said Edward Lee, corporate partner at law firm Kirkland & Ellis
 

feynoob

Member
FINALLY, YOU GET IT

that's what i've been saying this entire fucking time. And yes, Moon Studio and Asobo are far superior choices to activision for acquisition. Those 2 have worked side by side with Xbox and have made titles exclusively for the Xbox brand over the years and they have benefitted from Microsoft's 'fuck you' levels of money. If MS treated Ninja Theory the same way they did for those studios the acquisition would have gone by much smoother and Hellblade 2 would be out by now. That's organic growth. That's the 'myth' that @DarkMage619 wants you to believe doesn't exist
The organic method needs a blue print.

MS currently has no blue print like Sony, which means tough luck for their organic studios.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Tbh it probably would have been no different. See: Playground Games
tf do you mean by that? Playground Games is arguably the best of MS's studios and is one of the few that actually meets Sony in quality, going by the output. It's also one of the few MS studios that are the result of them organically working with a studio. Playground games had been making Forza titles for years before they were acquired in 2018, the result is Forza Horizon 5 which is the most popular and one of Xbox's best games in recent memory. It's almost like when you have a good working relationship with a developer, an acquisition becomes much easier and has greater gains.

The organic method needs a blue print.

MS currently has no blue print like Sony, which means tough luck for their organic studios.
because MS hasn't organically built enough studios up to know excactly what to do when it comes to finding talent.
And also the not spending enough on first party management thing, mentioned that as well
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
FINALLY, YOU GET IT

that's what i've been saying this entire fucking time. And yes, Moon Studio and Asobo are far superior choices to activision for acquisition. Those 2 have worked side by side with Xbox and have made titles exclusively for the Xbox brand over the years and they have benefitted from Microsoft's 'fuck you' levels of money. If MS treated Ninja Theory the same way they did for those studios the acquisition would have gone by much smoother and Hellblade 2 would be out by now. That's organic growth. That's the 'myth' that DarkMage619 DarkMage619 wants you to believe doesn't exist
Fuck organic growth. Bethesda and Double Fine was as close to organic growth as it gets, but no one cares.

I’d rather they’d have acquired Asobo and Moon too, but simply for the fact that their games are infinitely more interesting, entertaining and higher in quality than ABK’s games (IMO).

Lol. Hey, I love GamePass and my Series X but I don't think this acquisition is good for the industry or honestly Xbox. I think it will do all the wrong things to the industry and give a lot of people over at Xbox a pass on their lack of management skill.
Word I Agree GIF by INTO ACTION
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
tf do you mean by that? Playground Games is arguably the best of MS's studios and is one of the few that actually meets Sony in quality, going by the output. It's also one of the few MS studios that are the result of them organically working with a studio. Playground games had been making Forza titles for years before they were acquired in 2018, the result is Forza Horizon 5 which is the most popular and one of Xbox's best games in recent memory. It's almost like when you have a good working relationship with a developer, an acquisition becomes much easier and has greater gains.


because MS hasn't organically built enough studios up to know excactly what to do when it comes to finding talent.
And also the not spending enough on first party management thing, mentioned that as well

I don't think any of this makes sense. Sure, a working relationship helps, but it's not exclusionary and often an exception.

Doesn't negate an acquisition strategy that incorporates smaller partner studios and larger acquisitions like Zenimax.

And it's not like their acquisitions haven't begun to bear fruit, like Pentiment, which have been attributed to being launched specifically because of MS and their GP strategy.
 
FINALLY, YOU GET IT

that's what i've been saying this entire fucking time. And yes, Moon Studio and Asobo are far superior choices to activision for acquisition. Those 2 have worked side by side with Xbox and have made titles exclusively for the Xbox brand over the years and they have benefitted from Microsoft's 'fuck you' levels of money. If MS treated Ninja Theory the same way they did for those studios the acquisition would have gone by much smoother and Hellblade 2 would be out by now. That's organic growth. That's the 'myth' that DarkMage619 DarkMage619 wants you to believe doesn't exist

It's a myth. Games are games. Nobody cares how they come, just that they come. Obsidian has been one of the best-producing studios for Xbox, but was that one "organic?" No. Bethesda will be one of the best producers under Xbox since the launch of the Xbox Series consoles, and will again back it up next year. Nobody cares how that happened, just that it will. It isn't just their release of newer titles or enhancements to existing games like Skyrim Anniversary, but also their support of service games like ESO and Fallout 76, their support of existing games like Doom Eternal with next gen updates and DLC. Fallout 4 is getting a next gen update next year, Deathloop was a critical hit. 2023 will be a banner year for Bethesda under Xbox, and it's also when Ghostwire will show up alongside Redfall, Starfield and who knows what else.

In what way is Moon Studios or Asobo a better purchase than Activision Blizzard? Nobody believes that. The purchases Microsoft are making are the right ones. Be for real. Asobo, if they want to become part of Xbox it will happen one day. Moon Studios has explicitly stated, to my knowledge, they don't want to become part of Xbox. Why force the matter?
 

feynoob

Member
because MS hasn't organically built enough studios up to know excactly what to do when it comes to finding talent.
And also the not spending enough on first party management thing, mentioned that as well
Sony did this in PS3.
It would take MS a gen for that to happen.

Remember, Sony had a gen headstart compared to MS.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
severe underestimation. just look at the output of the studios MS worked with over the years before acquisition as opposed to the output of the studios they bought on a whim

Disagree. If you look at most of their small studio acquisitions they're investing in them and converting them from "smaller" studios to larger ones with greater ambition. They didn't ask those studios to stay small or maintain that course - every one of them are getting increased in scope and staffing and have had previously unannounced games, like Avowed, green lit. Doubt any relationship would have changed or accelerated anything - and in the example I gave, they launched a GOTY nominee.

You're advocating that small studios remain small or nothing change - and that's not reasonable or something MS has commitment to - it's committed to the opposite - bigger, more sustainable studios. It takes time, so we will see, but you can't argue that you want MS to foster years or decade old relationships THEN acquire them. Just putting false goal posts up.

Besides, I think Zenimax/Bethesda do and have had that type of relationship with MS over the years with Elder Scrolls and other partnerships so they've already done what you expect.
 
Lol. Hey, I love GamePass and my Series X but I don't think this acquisition is good for the industry or honestly Xbox. I think it will do all the wrong things to the industry and give a lot of people over at Xbox a pass on their lack of management skill.
That's one aspect why is beneficial for the industry .
 
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