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Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


  • Total voters
    886
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
the past week and a half has been really busy at work so I’ve finally given up on catching up, did something happen? I’m surprised that behavior remedies is by far & away the leading vote getter in the poll
Nothing much.

The CMA asked Microsoft "what happens with COD on PlayStation after 10 years?" and, to the surprise of many, Microsoft replied that "10 years are enough for Sony to build a COD rival," implying that MS may intend to remove COD after 10 years.
 

graywolf323

Member
Nothing much.

The CMA asked Microsoft "what happens with COD on PlayStation after 10 years?" and, to the surprise of many, Microsoft replied that "10 years are enough for Sony to build a COD rival," implying that MS may intend to remove COD after 10 years.
I still think it’ll go through but Microsoft will have to cave to the structural remedies that the CMA wants

but that poll really should destroy the whole myth of “SonyGAF” because a majority somehow believe it’ll get approved with either no concessions (wtf reality are those people living in?) or behavior remedies which at least to me still seems unlikely (though closer to reality than no concessions)
 

BeardGawd

Banned
You don't even know what Haven or Deviation are working on let alone if it will be a viable COD competitor. Phil had 9yrs, in those 9 he also bought Ninja Theory, Obsidian, and set up The Initiative. how well have those gone over 5yrs in competing on single player blockbusters for example? There is no way what you've mentioned are going to be COD competitors even in 10yrs.


Sure, why not. Now what acquisition do you think Sony can make to compete with the 20yr old annual best selling game known as COD? Not even a huge publisher like EA or Take 2 does that well.
While you are right it takes a lot of luck to create an IP as big as COD or Fortnite. But Respawn (ex COD devs) created 2 Titanfalls and Apex in that 10 year time frame. Get the proper devs and a great game can happen. Now whether it resonates with the public is basically luck but Sony has incredible marketing and the largest console base so if anyone could make the stars align it's them.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I still think it’ll go through but Microsoft will have to cave to the structural remedies that the CMA wants

but that poll really should destroy the whole myth of “SonyGAF” because a majority somehow believe it’ll get approved with either no concessions (wtf reality are those people living in?) or behavior remedies which at least to me still seems unlikely (though closer to reality than no concessions)
yeah MS has that option right now.

I voted for no only because MS publicly said that divestment isn't an option for them. But if they change their stance, they can acquire BK and divest A. I feel because MS can pick either of the two options, this should only be one option (merged) in the poll.
 
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graywolf323

Member
yeah MS has that option right now.

I voted for no only because MS publicly said that divestment isn't an option for them. But if they change their stance, they can acquire BK and divest A. I feel because MS can pick either of the two options, this should only be one option (merged) in the poll.
I mean we’ll see, I wouldn’t be surprised if they chose to walk away instead of the structural remedies given the cost, but at the same time I’m sure Phil Spencer doesn’t want to see that happen since it’d be a large blemish for him

I think structural remedies or MS pulls out are more likely than behavior remedies being accepted by the CMA (given Microsoft’s past behavior and their own statements just since announcing this deal)
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I mean we’ll see, I wouldn’t be surprised if they chose to walk away instead of the structural remedies given the cost, but at the same time I’m sure Phil Spencer doesn’t want to see that happen since it’d be a large blemish for him

I think structural remedies or MS pulls out are more likely than behavior remedies being accepted by the CMA (given Microsoft’s past behavior and their own statements just since announcing this deal)
I think so too. Even structural remedies would be extremely complicated for MS to pull off. So pulling out completely seems like the more probable option if the CMA rejects behavioral remedies suggested by MS. Let's see.
 

Astray

Member
I voted for no only because MS publicly said that divestment isn't an option for them. But if they change their stance, they can acquire BK and divest A. I feel because MS can pick either of the two options, this should only be one option (merged) in the poll.
I don't think divestment will ever be a practical option for them, it will likely make the deal a financial loser for them (no way they get the price they want when they are forced sellers), and it will force them to divest too many studios they might want to actually keep for future 1P output.
 

Bernoulli

M2 slut
i don't see Microsoft chosing structural remedies after all the hyping from spencer and greenberg about COD

they could buy without COD and then pay for COD marketing deal if it is that important

or just leave the deal and pay 3 billions
 
You're a bit young for this one. Happened before Windows 95 and it was a pivotal moment that fucked computing as a whole and established a monopoly in the pc field way back when which made 9x a monopoly at the time and continues to have chilling effects to this day.
And again what does this have to do with this acquisition or MS' current leadership? I gave numerous examples earlier of companies that did questionable things in the past that has no bearing on what they do today.

MS has no monopoly in gaming and that is what is relevant to this discussion. No one can honestly argue that this acquisition harms consumers as a whole. Even Sony will continue to get CoD but with parity over having an advantage and that is hardly something to stop this deal over.
That is extremely unlikely. The deal didn’t have any issues with regulators, and no deal made in 2014 would cover the Minecraft spin-offs which have remained multiplatform.

Also, MS has touted their Minecraft access practices multiple times. If it were enforced, it would have been brought up. It also would have been brought up by the CMA and MS as an example of a successful behavioral remedy.
Minecraft remains an inconvenient truth. It's hard to argue that MS doesn't honor contracts or creates buggy versions of software on platforms they don't own when this title and it's spin-offs continues to standout.
 
“‘Minecraft’ is one of the most popular franchises of all time,” said Phil Spencer, head of Xbox. “We are going to maintain ‘Minecraft’ and its community in all the ways people love today, with a commitment to nurture and grow it long into the future.


No arbitrary 10 year cliff edge there. Do it for ABK Phil, and that deal may get approved like Mojang did.
Phil Spencer addressed this here.

“As long as there’s a PlayStation out there to ship to, our intent is that we continue to ship Call of Duty on PlayStation”

Regulators are insisting on guarantees for this transactions in ways Minecraft did not require. There is no way any company will make a 'forever' contract when the future is uncertain. Ten years is already longer than any agreement the CMA has required before. You will have to look at MS' previous actions with Deathloop, Ghostwire Toyko and Minecraft to see how they handle their agreements with other gaming companies. They do what they say they will do.
 

sainraja

Member
And thats why the acquisition remains blocked.

That’s the only way MS get this though without divestment. Make their content library multiplat - it’s easy and cheap these days according to the CMA docs and MS themselves.

Then we all indeed win just like Phil claimed - and then backslid on.
It would be really cool if both parties came to an agreement to put their libraries on the other console. Both of them can simply charge a fee on the other console for access (you would still have to buy the games), which should account for some revenue that they might lose due to hardware sale. This fee could go directly to the owner without any charge (game sales would have 20-30% cut).
 
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Elios83

Member
Phil Spencer addressed this here.

“As long as there’s a PlayStation out there to ship to, our intent is that we continue to ship Call of Duty on PlayStation”

Regulators are insisting on guarantees for this transactions in ways Minecraft did not require. There is no way any company will make a 'forever' contract when the future is uncertain. Ten years is already longer than any agreement the CMA has required before. You will have to look at MS' previous actions with Deathloop, Ghostwire Toyko and Minecraft to see how they handle their agreements with other gaming companies. They do what they say they will do.

You're just pretending the problem of the "forever" contract can't be fixed when it's just as easy as making a license that after 10 years can be extended under a revaluation of the market by regulators only if the anticompetitive concerns are still valid.

Microsoft is not willing to do that because the ending goal is the total control of COD, for them the 10 years deal is just a necessary nuisance to get approval right now but they can't give up on getting what they want long term or the deal has no sense. Same of course for a divestement.

This is obvious to everyone.
 
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ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Nah, I don't think Microsoft will destroy the IP.
i was being hyperbolic. when i say destroy is more like losing the relevance it has now.
They didn't destroy Minecraft.
they bought Minecraft once it was a cultural phenomenon and is a single on-going game. They have fail to do anything revolutionary with it.

where is the raytrace mode?
'member hololense presentation?

and now there is a new kid in the block with Roblox.

It's just not clear what their intent is, given that they don't seem interested in doing anything outside of 10-year deals. I am not confident but hoping that MS takes the position that Sony has when it comes to Bungie and their games (which was unexpected, since it is Sony). We just have to wait and see.
is about growth. as simple as that.
 
While you are right it takes a lot of luck to create an IP as big as COD or Fortnite. But Respawn (ex COD devs) created 2 Titanfalls and Apex in that 10 year time frame. Get the proper devs and a great game can happen. Now whether it resonates with the public is basically luck but Sony has incredible marketing and the largest console base so if anyone could make the stars align it's them.

TitanFall 2 killed the franchise. TitanFall 1 was a "moderate" success but nowhere near enough to reverse XBO's fortunes. Apex is a big game but it took several years to build up that userbase and it's still nowhere on the level of a COD or Fortnite.

So I love how the example you used just shows how hard it is to replicate COD and Fortnite even when you have the talent at the healm. There are too many random variables that have to perfectly align to get a COD or Fortnite-level hit and you know it. No matter the amount of talent Sony has or how great their marketing is, or how big the PlayStation install base is, none of that is enough to guarantee they can build a COD or Fortnite-level success within a 10-year time frame.

Even if it is possible and they accomplish it somehow, that in itself isn't justification for Microsoft acquiring COD through ABK. If one platform holder has to "compete" by actually building new IP from the ground up and hope enough lucky factors align to catapult them to success, and the other "competes" by just buying all the big IP on the market...then who's really providing the competition? And why the double standard?

Phil Spencer addressed this here.

“As long as there’s a PlayStation out there to ship to, our intent is that we continue to ship Call of Duty on PlayStation”

Regulators are insisting on guarantees for this transactions in ways Minecraft did not require. There is no way any company will make a 'forever' contract when the future is uncertain. Ten years is already longer than any agreement the CMA has required before. You will have to look at MS' previous actions with Deathloop, Ghostwire Toyko and Minecraft to see how they handle their agreements with other gaming companies. They do what they say they will do.

Deathloop & Ghostwire Tokyo were not MS agreements; they were Zenimax agreements that MS were forced to either honor or pay the fee for breaking. The only reason they were able to even acquire Minecraft is because the original owner insisted to specific terms including the game remain multiplatform. That was the only way they were ever going to sell, so MS had that choice made for them.

The fact they have, multiple times, entertained hypotheticals of scenarios where PlayStation is "just fine" without COD, and recently saying Sony can create a COD rival within 10 years (when asked why they wouldn't consider extending the time period of the offer), shows that they obviously view COD as a chess piece MUCH differently than Minecraft or small relatively no-name games like Deathloop & Ghostwire Tokyo.

MS know the cultural zeitgeist power of COD and its pull on gamer demographics of all types, the sway it can provide them in the AAA gaming space as well. They can leverage it in ways that none of the other games you mentioned provide the same benefits for, which is why Microsoft's rhetoric has been soundly different when talking COD.
 
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sainraja

Member
i was being hyperbolic. when i say destroy is more like losing the relevance it has now.

they bought Minecraft once it was a cultural phenomenon and is a single on-going game. They have fail to do anything revolutionary with it.

where is the raytrace mode?
'member hololense presentation?

and now there is a new kid in the block with Roblox.
Fair enough.

is about growth. as simple as that.
I meant with COD.
 
Deathloop & Ghostwire Tokyo were not MS agreements; they were Zenimax agreements that MS were forced to either honor or pay the fee for breaking. The only reason they were able to even acquire Minecraft is because the original owner insisted to specific terms including the game remain multiplatform. That was the only way they were ever going to sell, so MS had that choice made for them.

The fact they have, multiple times, entertained hypotheticals of scenarios where PlayStation is "just fine" without COD, and recently saying Sony can create a COD rival within 10 years (when asked why they wouldn't consider extending the time period of the offer), shows that they obviously view COD as a chess piece MUCH differently than Minecraft or small relatively no-name games like Deathloop & Ghostwire Tokyo.

MS know the cultural zeitgeist power of COD and its pull on gamer demographics of all types, the sway it can provide them in the AAA gaming space as well. They can leverage it in ways that none of the other games you mentioned provide the same benefits for, which is why Microsoft's rhetoric has been soundly different when talking COD.
So? The argument tossed around is that MS doesn't honor commitments or they would potentially sabotage CoD or other software they make on other platforms and that remains unsubstantiated.

MS is paying for an adjudicator that would keep them from releasing CoD at all of it fails to meet quality standards on all the platforms they are promising it for. The talk of how PlayStation could survive without CoD is push back against the notion that CoD is an essential input for a gaming platform to be successful. Nintendo continues to prove that untrue. MS making CoD available on Nintendo platforms should make regulators happy to hear since MS will save Nintendo by providing them a vital input they are currently being denied right? It remains ridiculous that Nintendo can be tossed out as beating Xbox in console sales yet not even exist in the market in relation to this deal.

None of this has anything to do with PlayStation losing CoD. PlayStation will lose their superior version of CoD and that is why they are solely against the deal. The status quo benefits Sony. The deal benefits everyone else from the unions, to Nintendo, and the other cloud streaming platforms.
 
"When we all play we all win"


CheapHugeCapeghostfrog-size_restricted.gif
 

NickFire

Member
Imagine their output all the way into 2023 if they didn't buy Bethesda for games they would have had already, just to play takeaway and call them "first party."
Dude, serious question. What the hell were they planning to launch for it when they announced Series X? My best guess is the plan would have been 2020 = Halo; 2021 = Horizons; 2022 = ???; 2023 = Forza. What am I missing though?
 

gothmog

Gold Member
Dude, serious question. What the hell were they planning to launch for it when they announced Series X? My best guess is the plan would have been 2020 = Halo; 2021 = Horizons; 2022 = ???; 2023 = Forza. What am I missing though?
I'm sure they would have had a bunch of GP third party games.

This is why most people didn't lose their mind when the Zenimax deal happened.
 
So, let's say Microsoft would divest Activision as a LLC with "friendly" people in charge and then got exclusive rights to include Call of Duty and other Acti Blizz games in Game Pass day one and that new LLC would not be beholden to any contract with Sony around releasing Call of Duty games on PlayStation.

How exactly would it resolve situation? And more importantly, how would CMA manage to secure that thing like that does not happen?

Fact is that no matter how this acquisition will end up, Sony kinda screwed their relationship with Activision Blizzard moving forward. I can't imagine shareholders being happy with Sony when CMA will block this deal and they will loose potential 95$ per share and shares of company will take a nosedive as a result.

That is such a stupid implementation of a structural remedy that no one would implement it that way and you know it. There are various ways the divested entity could be structured to ensure actual fairness and still provide benefits to Microsoft.

My idea for a reasonable divestiture would call for the Activision branch to be made its own entity, with the appropriate main COD teams and support teams which is basically all of the Activision teams these days. Microsoft could be allowed to retain either 25% or 33% of the shares of this company, meanwhile they would be a funding source (but wouldn't need to be the only funding source) for base versions of COD and Warzone on PC and mobile.

Any platform holder who wants a version of COD or Warzone for their device has to pay for the development of that version; they can either pay for the main teams of Activision to do it, or license development of versions of the game for their platform with some of their own programming teams (think about what Sega used to do back in the early Genesis era when they reprogrammed Strider for their system). Or they could do a mix of the two; the costs for the license of that installment to their platform would change depending on what they chose.

Each platform holder paying for a license of the game on their system also gets a publishing license. That means they're responsible for the publishing of that COD installment on their console, it also means they retain all of the revenue from software sales of COD on their system(s). So, Microsoft would have full marketing rights to COD on Xbox and retain all sales revenue of COD on Xbox consoles; Sony would get the same just with PlayStation, and Nintendo with their platforms.

In addition to that, each platform holder could opt to add bonus content to their version of COD like brand-specific skins and decals, or even maps themed off of their own games. However, they would have to develop this bonus content themselves, and would have to allow the divested Activision to have a choice in porting some portion of that content to the PC and mobile versions of the game. Platform holders would pay a separate license fee for inclusion of a new COD into their subscription service, the time of the game in their service determining the cost of that license.

If a platform holder were to make a new COD Day 1 in their subscription service, they'd pay the highest licensing cost, and depending on if they also provide the game for a native purchase on their platform, would have to curtail certain options. In the case of COD, perhaps severely limit the amount of MTX items a player can buy through the game if accessing it in the subscription service Day 1. If the platform holder purchased a sub license where they put COD into their service 6 months after initial release, the limitations loosen, and if they pay for a sub license where it goes into their service a year after initial sale, there are no limitations.

You can adjust this system for non-COD and non live-service Activision games as well: same with COD, Activision focuses on the PC and mobile version of those games, platform holders pay a license for a version of that game on their system, and get publishing rights to sale of that game on their platforms. They can develop additional content around their brand for their version of the game, but Activision are able to select some of that content to port to the PC and mobile versions, of their own choosing. Platform holders can choose a Day 1 sub service license, 6 month sub service license, or 1 year sub service license, which can affect how much of the game's content is made available through the sub service and how much a user may have to purchase in partitions (perhaps at timed intervals when made available), but some portion of any purchased partitions being auto-redeemable as a discount towards the full purchase of the game so should the user buy the game within the span of a year of its initial release.

For companies that are strictly cloud content providers (Boosteroid, GeForce NOW etc.), the aforementioned limitations for COD, non-COD and non live-service GaaS games in a subscription service license would not apply, since those companies do not provide a native version of the games for purchase on their storefronts or at physical retailers for their consoles...since they don't have their own storefront or console to begin with. However the flipside to that is, these providers would only have the cloud version of COD and other Activision games, whereas a service like Game Pass or PS+ can still provide a downloadable version to run natively on the console.

As for Microsoft's shares in this divested Activision entity, they would own all of the priority shares. I'm not fully sure how this works, but it'd be similar to how Nintendo's main shares are owned by various Japanese banks and investment groups, plus some family members. I'm not exactly sure how that could be replicated with a divested Activision, but maybe Microsoft retains a 33% stake in the company and they have the option to own up to 51% stake in them. However other companies would be allowed to buy shares in Activision, including Apple, Google, Tencent, Embracer Group, Nintendo, and Sony.

IMO that's the best structural remedy Microsoft could hope for. The selling price of ABK would have to be readjusted, probably a good deal less, so there's a chance the ABK shareholders balk and reject such a thing, but I think you can make an offer where Microsoft still gets Blizzard & King wholesale, and divest Activision while retaining a 33% stake, where the shareholders of ABK agree to a new offer. And Microsoft of course still get Blizzard & King, they get control of COD on their console platforms and subscription services, their 33% stake would enjoy increased valuation depending on PC & mobile sales of games so Microsoft has an incentive to ensure that does well, and maybe they can work out an agreement for Activision mobile content (depending on what exactly it is) on their mobile storefront they want to launch soon.

I think it's the best solution & compromise for this deal TBH, for all involved parties. But if Microsoft's true intent with COD is absolute control and using it to foreclose on PlayStation, of course they would reject any divestiture suggestions.
 

Three

Member
While you are right it takes a lot of luck to create an IP as big as COD or Fortnite. But Respawn (ex COD devs) created 2 Titanfalls and Apex in that 10 year time frame. Get the proper devs and a great game can happen. Now whether it resonates with the public is basically luck but Sony has incredible marketing and the largest console base so if anyone could make the stars align it's them.
The two Titanfalls didn’t set the world on fire, granted they had better luck with the f2p Apex in engagement but Titanfall never competed with CoD at all.
 
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NickFire

Member
More convinced now than ever Microsoft want this ABK deal to fall apart.
I completely dismissed this take on first glance.

It might be on point though. There's still one more 1/2 Billion dollar escalator that kicks in before EU or FTC will be resolved in either direction. If MS doubts CMA will ever play ball, but wants the CMA to act before the last escalator clause so it could blame CMA for deal falling apart (while saving 1/2 a Billion), then this interview could have been the perfect way to accomplish that.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
That is such a stupid implementation of a structural remedy that no one would implement it that way and you know it. There are various ways the divested entity could be structured to ensure actual fairness and still provide benefits to Microsoft.

My idea for a reasonable divestiture would call for the Activision branch to be made its own entity, with the appropriate main COD teams and support teams which is basically all of the Activision teams these days. Microsoft could be allowed to retain either 25% or 33% of the shares of this company, meanwhile they would be a funding source (but wouldn't need to be the only funding source) for base versions of COD and Warzone on PC and mobile.

Any platform holder who wants a version of COD or Warzone for their device has to pay for the development of that version; they can either pay for the main teams of Activision to do it, or license development of versions of the game for their platform with some of their own programming teams (think about what Sega used to do back in the early Genesis era when they reprogrammed Strider for their system). Or they could do a mix of the two; the costs for the license of that installment to their platform would change depending on what they chose.

Each platform holder paying for a license of the game on their system also gets a publishing license. That means they're responsible for the publishing of that COD installment on their console, it also means they retain all of the revenue from software sales of COD on their system(s). So, Microsoft would have full marketing rights to COD on Xbox and retain all sales revenue of COD on Xbox consoles; Sony would get the same just with PlayStation, and Nintendo with their platforms.

In addition to that, each platform holder could opt to add bonus content to their version of COD like brand-specific skins and decals, or even maps themed off of their own games. However, they would have to develop this bonus content themselves, and would have to allow the divested Activision to have a choice in porting some portion of that content to the PC and mobile versions of the game. Platform holders would pay a separate license fee for inclusion of a new COD into their subscription service, the time of the game in their service determining the cost of that license.

If a platform holder were to make a new COD Day 1 in their subscription service, they'd pay the highest licensing cost, and depending on if they also provide the game for a native purchase on their platform, would have to curtail certain options. In the case of COD, perhaps severely limit the amount of MTX items a player can buy through the game if accessing it in the subscription service Day 1. If the platform holder purchased a sub license where they put COD into their service 6 months after initial release, the limitations loosen, and if they pay for a sub license where it goes into their service a year after initial sale, there are no limitations.

You can adjust this system for non-COD and non live-service Activision games as well: same with COD, Activision focuses on the PC and mobile version of those games, platform holders pay a license for a version of that game on their system, and get publishing rights to sale of that game on their platforms. They can develop additional content around their brand for their version of the game, but Activision are able to select some of that content to port to the PC and mobile versions, of their own choosing. Platform holders can choose a Day 1 sub service license, 6 month sub service license, or 1 year sub service license, which can affect how much of the game's content is made available through the sub service and how much a user may have to purchase in partitions (perhaps at timed intervals when made available), but some portion of any purchased partitions being auto-redeemable as a discount towards the full purchase of the game so should the user buy the game within the span of a year of its initial release.

For companies that are strictly cloud content providers (Boosteroid, GeForce NOW etc.), the aforementioned limitations for COD, non-COD and non live-service GaaS games in a subscription service license would not apply, since those companies do not provide a native version of the games for purchase on their storefronts or at physical retailers for their consoles...since they don't have their own storefront or console to begin with. However the flipside to that is, these providers would only have the cloud version of COD and other Activision games, whereas a service like Game Pass or PS+ can still provide a downloadable version to run natively on the console.

As for Microsoft's shares in this divested Activision entity, they would own all of the priority shares. I'm not fully sure how this works, but it'd be similar to how Nintendo's main shares are owned by various Japanese banks and investment groups, plus some family members. I'm not exactly sure how that could be replicated with a divested Activision, but maybe Microsoft retains a 33% stake in the company and they have the option to own up to 51% stake in them. However other companies would be allowed to buy shares in Activision, including Apple, Google, Tencent, Embracer Group, Nintendo, and Sony.

IMO that's the best structural remedy Microsoft could hope for. The selling price of ABK would have to be readjusted, probably a good deal less, so there's a chance the ABK shareholders balk and reject such a thing, but I think you can make an offer where Microsoft still gets Blizzard & King wholesale, and divest Activision while retaining a 33% stake, where the shareholders of ABK agree to a new offer. And Microsoft of course still get Blizzard & King, they get control of COD on their console platforms and subscription services, their 33% stake would enjoy increased valuation depending on PC & mobile sales of games so Microsoft has an incentive to ensure that does well, and maybe they can work out an agreement for Activision mobile content (depending on what exactly it is) on their mobile storefront they want to launch soon.

I think it's the best solution & compromise for this deal TBH, for all involved parties. But if Microsoft's true intent with COD is absolute control and using it to foreclose on PlayStation, of course they would reject any divestiture suggestions.
So Microsoft pays the bills and sony gets a free game to make billions on lol. That sounds fair for Sony and everyone except Microsoft. Who will pay 69 billion to get zero in return except stock on a company that will be worth a 1/10 of that. So 60 billion for BK and foot the bill so sony can make more money really fair. A company with no income is worthless since platform holders get all the money.
 
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