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Microsoft Admits Its Handling of Lionhead Studios Was a ‘Misstep’

Rare released sea of thieves in 2017. Before that, they did kinetic. Don mattrick left 2014. So the issue is clearly Don's fault.

Because after Don left, Spencer took over. And rare released that game.
Huh?

I'm talking about the fact that MS until essentially now, hasn't placed a large focus on quality FP games and it's shown in their output. Sea of Thieves is one game that launched to universal derision and was eventually salvaged into something successful. One game isn't a reasonable counterargument.

From 2014 to 2020, MS was being led by Spencer and largely didn't improve much at all from the Mattrick years.

It's now with the big GamePass focus and the purchase of Zenimax that they're finally in a position to show a renewed focus on quality FP gaming content. So there's no reasonable argument that Mattrick alone was the problem. There's essentially 6 to 7 years without Mattrick, still unaccounted for that MS basically delivered mostly disappointment.
 

kingfey

Member
Huh?

I'm talking about the fact that MS until essentially now, hasn't placed a large focus on quality FP games and it's shown in their output. Sea of Thieves is one game that launched to universal derision and was eventually salvaged into something successful. One game isn't a reasonable counterargument.

From 2014 to 2020, MS was being led by Spencer and largely didn't improve much at all from the Mattrick years.

It's now with the big GamePass focus and the purchase of Zenimax that they're finally in a position to show a renewed focus on quality FP gaming content. So there's no reasonable argument that Mattrick alone was the problem. There's essentially 6 to 7 years without Mattrick, still unaccounted for that MS basically delivered mostly disappointment.
Again, it was Don Mattrick that xbox is in this situation.

Games takes time to make. Look at infinity. It took 6 years to make.

Xbox had 5 studios when xbox one was released. The guy never bothered expanding the company, while Sony was partnering with 2nd party studios to make games for their console.

Once Spencer took over, we saw MS acquiring alot of studios. Now they have 23 studios to make games for them.
 

JackMcGunns

Member
How about the downfall of Rare? These studio acquisitions never seem to work out. How many studios have fallen at the hands of EA? I fear for Bethesda.


The talent that everyone nostalgically associates Rare with was already gone when Microsoft acquired them. What they have now is an entirely new studio that just bares the name with Sea of Thieves as their magnum opus.
 

chonga

Member
So what did Microsoft learn? “You acquire a studio for what they’re great at now, and your job is to help them accelerate how they do what they do, not them accelerate what you do,” said Phil Spencer, Head of Xbox.
This part amuses me. They literally have not learnt at all.

'Yeah we fucked up not letting Lionhead do what they do best and instead telling them what they should be making. What we should have done is let them make the types of games they're good at making'.

'So we've learned from that. And now we're making our top open world racer studio develop a type of game they've never made before'.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Sony messed up with Evolution studio and Studio Liverpool even though they are kinda back now.

Nintendo commits a crime all the time by making Hiroyuki Takahashi make Mario sport games instead of JRPG’s

MS Sunk the boat with Rare and their IP’s for a long time. Yes Sea of Thieves is great but Rare has been with MS for close to 2 decades and that is awful handling of that studio and the IP’s.

MS is doing better now but I wonder how they will handle all these developed studios and publishers because since like 2009 they havent been close to Playstation or Nintendo when it comes to quality games output
 
Again, it was Don Mattrick that xbox is in this situation.

Games takes time to make. Look at infinity. It took 6 years to make.

Xbox had 5 studios when xbox one was released. The guy never bothered expanding the company, while Sony was partnering with 2nd party studios to make games for their console.

Once Spencer took over, we saw MS acquiring alot of studios. Now they have 23 studios to make games for them.

You think Don Mattrick's legacy stuck around for 6 to 7 years after his departure from the company to hamstring MS and Phil Spencer?!?

odd future lol GIF by JASPER & ERROL'S FIRST TIME


I'm sorry... that's patently absurd and borderline delusional.

And only Halo Infinite took 6 years to make. Very few games across the rest of the industry take that long to make, and most that do launch as such a trainwreck, they should have been canned long ago.

I'm sorry but "freaking lol" is the only rational response to the argument you're trying to make.
 

kingfey

Member
You think Don Mattrick's legacy stuck around for 6 to 7 years after his departure from the company to hamstring MS and Phil Spencer?!?

odd future lol GIF by JASPER & ERROL'S FIRST TIME'S FIRST TIME


I'm sorry... that's patently absurd and borderline delusional.

And only Halo Infinite took 6 years to make. Very few games across the rest of the industry take that long to make, and most that do launch as such a trainwreck, they should have been canned long ago.

I'm sorry but "freaking lol" is the only rational response to the argument you're trying to make.
That what a person who doesn't how long it takes to make games says.

Tell me a major games, which xbox released during Don era, that doesn't include halo, forza, and gears.
 

Ballthyrm

Member
Closing down studios is a bonehead move.

Studios are made of 100s of peaople, While not easy I think its better to identify the people causing the problems and terminate them.

Not when the actual problem are the people at the top taking decisions. They rarely fire themselves.

What you often see with studios buyout, the leadership cash their checks & leaves, or they quit caring after the buyout.

Now add a couple of marketing/business people coming from headquarters who never worked on games before and you got the defining recipe for disaster. You don't learn how to make games in business school , let me tell you that.
 
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kingfey

Member
Not when the actual problem are the people at the top taking decisions. They rarely fire themselves.

What you often see with studios buyout, the leadership cash their checks & leaves or quit caring after the buyout.

Now add a couple of marketing/business people coming from headquarters who never on games before and you got the defining recipe for disaster. You don't learn how to make games in business school , let me tell you that.
Bioware is good example.

Good talent, but with recent years, they produced shit after shit.

Too much freedom makes devs lazy. And too much power on them produces cyberpunk2077. So there needs to be a balance, and that is how you get lou2, fh5.
 
Sony messed up with Evolution studio and Studio Liverpool even though they are kinda back now.



MS is doing better now but I wonder how they will handle all these developed studios and publishers because since like 2009 they havent been close to Playstation or Nintendo when it comes to quality games output
You left out the likes Sudio Cambridge and Zipper and if Forza Horizon 5 and Psychonauts 2 are any indication. Then MS is handling the studios quite well
 
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Iced Arcade

Member
People get mad thinking MS doesn't let studios make what they want....

Same people get mad that Rare doesn't want to work on old IPs and MS doesn't force them. Lo
 

Kokoloko85

Member
You left out the likes Sudio Cambridge and Zipper and if Forza Horizon 5 and Psychonauts 2 are any indication. Then MS is handling the studios quite well
Thats why I said they are doing better Lol.
I didnt mention a good few like Bungie, Ensemble or Press either. All 3 have messed up many times with studios
 

kingfey

Member
You think the average game takes 6 years?

Wow... I don't even.



WTF are you even arguing!?... The debate is about the 6-7 years since Don Mattrick left, MS. Are you high?
Games take 3-4 years. Infinite was engine overhaul+production+1 year delay.

Rare released sea of theives 2017. The game was in development for 4 years. 2013-2017.

And I answered your question for the debate. From 2014-2021 ms released sea of theives, 2nd installment of SOD, they bought tons of studios, which are working on upcoming games such as avowed, hell blade2, fable reboot, and perfect dark reboot.

You also have to account for SOD studio, which had its games released in 2018, gears 5, which was released in 2019, sea lf theives which was released in 2017, minecraft spinoff, Obsidian which had TOW in 2019.

Again, I will have to repeat myself to you, since you won't understand it.

Xbox had 5 studios, when Don left. Some studios had its games released the end of x360/early xone. Games take 3-4 years to make. Once these studios release a game, you will need to wait them for a while to release a new game. For a company which had 5 studios, they couldn't release as much as they can.

But now is different. Xbox has 23 studios. They can release up to 6 games per year for 4 years, assuming each studios can release 1 game every 4 year. That is 23 games in 4 years. Some studios can make 2 games, which makes the 4 years library bigger.

That is the difference between Don mattrick era, vs when Spencer took over up to now.
 

Papacheeks

Gold Member
I'll just never understand how companies don't make games the Nintendo way. Get a fully functioning gameplay build in black and white with no emphasis on graphics. Make it fun. Then build a game from that, knowing that it works. Seems like tons of studios just make movies and artwork in their head and then try to figure out how to make their artwork playable.

Currently this is the approach Sony does. They never just have a CGI trailer, it usually shows in-engine models, world, gameplay. Or if they do show only just a trailer thats not straight recorded gameplay or has any mixed in, a second gameplay trailer or playthrough usually follows soon. Which was the case with Forbidden West. They showed off a big playthrough in February of 2021. Trailer was in May/June of 2020.

NOW the game is coming out in less than 2 months.
 
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Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
This part amuses me. They literally have not learnt at all.

'Yeah we fucked up not letting Lionhead do what they do best and instead telling them what they should be making. What we should have done is let them make the types of games they're good at making'.

'So we've learned from that. And now we're making our top open world racer studio develop a type of game they've never made before'.
Or maybe they just wanted to make an open world RPG instead of being stuck with Forza forever. They started working on Fable before they were acquired and became first party
Thats like saying Microsoft forced Asobo to make Flight Simulator.
 
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