HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I doubt any of these are the reasons why Sony is going in a different direction
Its likely they know OLED has flaws that can likely never be overcome especially the brighter they try to push the tech
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Mini LED to be Sony's 2024 flag ship TV
- Thread starter S0ULZB0URNE
- Start date
Its likely they know OLED has flaws that can likely never be overcome especially the brighter they try to push the tech
rofif
Banned
Maybe if you view notepad on full screen in hdr...
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Or maybe you just prefer an overall brighter TV
systemr123
Member
Meh abl is literally what is killing oled. Everything else about the displays is great I think, but abl is horrible, on all of them. Also, lots of people think abl only kicks in when there’s only white on the screen but that’s bull.
An Oled that wouldn’t use abl, and can do a peak brightness of 1500 nits sustained, now that would be beautiful. And maybe do something about motion too, so you can make 30fps somewhat acceptable to display on oled. LCD looks way better using 30fps games because of the sucky tech, which apparently looks better for the eyes in that case.
Pretty simple to turn that off. I’ve done it on both my oleds. CX & C2
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Bingo. Just a gimmick from LG that's only impressive on paper. Born out of desperation to keep up with QD-OLED.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
LOLIn the case of black levels, its what you dont see, no?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I've always wanted a Sony television. Their motion handling, image processing, out of the box color accuracy, and upscaling all still seem to be unmatched.
I love my LG C2 but I'll definitely keep my eyes open to see what Sony has up their sleeve for my next upgrade.
I will say that I don't really care at all about the brightness though. My C2 is plenty bright for me, and it's not even the brighter QD OLED/ MLA OLED tech like the new OLEDs are.
I love my LG C2 but I'll definitely keep my eyes open to see what Sony has up their sleeve for my next upgrade.
I will say that I don't really care at all about the brightness though. My C2 is plenty bright for me, and it's not even the brighter QD OLED/ MLA OLED tech like the new OLEDs are.
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rofif
Banned
no. it's bright enough for me....Or maybe you just prefer an overall brighter TV
ABL is worse on paper than in real use.
Normally, when you play games, the flashbang will still be bright because it's short. And any real scenario environments don't show abl issue.
In reality, humans are not capable of detecting changes in brightness so easily. If you set peak to 600 or 800, you won't notice the difference most likely.
All these numbers talk and we forget to focus on what's really going on. The new tv pushing 1000 nits is not going to look ANY brighter to anyone compared to 800 nits tv. It's not detectable. And even if, how do you compare it? Eyes are not cameras and adapt. Movies and games do not push max nits on all areas. Only on some parts. Many games use the typical sdr to hdr grading where game is graded to 100 nits sdr floor and bright elements, sky, light sources are adjusted to higher nits values.
The flowers outside on the ground at 500 nits and they don't sear your eyes. adaptability. If you look at the window, it looks like a bright portal on a sunny day. And when you are outside and look inside, i's a dark cavern.
It's hard to show examples on pictures but Look at uncharted 4:
It's super bright. I have NO IDEA howmany nits that opening is but when you play at night or just with room dimmed down or some light in the corner, your eyes are adapted to room ambience level. Then when that "weak 200-800 nits" hit you, it just looks very bright. no rocket science here
When you move camera closer, you see there is a ton of detail in there. The image from further away just shows how bright this screen area is realative to whole screen. And that's a bit opening.
I real world use, oled looks like this
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
It is bright enough for some and others want brighter
What works for one doesn't work for everyone
rofif
Banned
Fair enough
dotnotbot
Member
The reality is it's very difficult for Sony to compete in OLED market so they decided to go with miniLED instead as there are still some ways they can improve them on their own so they can market those advancements as their own technology and have some clearer advantage over competition. There's little they can add on their own to OLEDs and even if they do, most people will think it's not worth the premium over cheapest LGs. It doesn't mean OLED is a dead end and let's not forget that they had OLED as a mastering monitor (
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Pipoqueiro
Member
Only microled will beat oled panels
sorry
sorry
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
dotnotbot
Member
Sorry, I meant BVM-X300
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ByWatterson
Member
Isn't this just inherently inferior to OLED?
I'm about to upgrade from a TCL backlit to LG C3, and I don't understand why any LCD would be preferable to OLED.
I'm about to upgrade from a TCL backlit to LG C3, and I don't understand why any LCD would be preferable to OLED.
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IlGialloMondadori
Member
Yeah, I mean people keep talking about “hey man, I have a tv outside and it’s super sunny here in the Caribbean, so I need an LCD tv because it’s better in the sun”.
Fuck that noise. We invented a solution. It’s called curtains. Blooming sucks ass, the not-black blacks suck ass, ghosting sucks.
I’ll stick with oled.
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TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
You know Ghostwire: Tokyo has only 2 settings for HDR settings, 1000nits or 2000nits
How do you go about that when your TV doesn't even reach the minimum setting
Serious question btw.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Inferior in what?
rofif
Banned
I want to play that game! Have it on my shelf.You know Ghostwire: Tokyo has only 2 settings for HDR settings, 1000nits or 2000nits
How do you go about that when your TV doesn't even reach the minimum setting
Serious question btw.
2 ways to go about it:
("proper" way)Set tv to hgig and game to 1000nits. close enough to 800. no difference.
And what I will probably do - set game to 2000 and enable DTM on the tv.
Well, 1st option with DTM should also be good but for set it and forget it, I am setting it to max and tv to dtm, yes
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I mean the same can be said about mini LED as there are becoming a lot of decent low priced options out there
Not too long ago saw a Hisense U8 and was honestly impressed with a sub $1000 65" TV
The thing is people missing on this new Sony TV is flagship
reinking
Gold Member
I recently bought a U8K when I gave another TV to someone. For the price, and with a little tweaking, it is impressive. It is not going to outperform a higher end LG, Samsung or Sony, but it is sufficient for my current needs while I wait for the price of premium Mini-LEDs to drop. With this news it looks like that is going to happen in a few years when it is time for this one to get donated or moved to a lesser used room.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
If you care about off angle this might not be for you.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
MOVIES.30FPS?
I didn't accept 30fps long before i bought OLED. With pc you can avoid incompetent devs most of the time. I'm forced to play 30fps game like once a year (FFXVI...)
Apparently 4000 nits straight into your eyes!
You do know some people want to watch 24hz movies and some want to play retro games.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
They use heatsinks to reduce the heat and then increase the brightness which increases the burn in chance.
dolabla
Member
I like this idea a lot. OLED has its flaws with brightness and burn in. I would like to see Sony push mini-led to its absolute limits (contrast, blacks, etc). I switched to mini-led (Samsung) last year from OLED (Sony) and I have no regrets. If I like what they show off, I may sell my Samsung and get it. It would be cool if they made them all the way down to the 43" size, but I'm expecting 55" (maybe 50") and above.
thebigmanjosh
Member
A95L in a fully lit room with windows to my left and behind me. 2023 QD-OLED/WOLED pretty much stopped the brightness debate unless you’re watching TV outside or with absolutely no light control. Mini LED can blast white test patterns, but the nits do not hold up in real content.
The TV definitely has a few flaws, but it’s not anything the majority of people would ever notice in normal viewing.
As someone who works in this industry, this has nothing to do with the long term viability of OLED or Sony’s investment in that area. Sony is doing this because their last flagship became widely available just a few months ago. They also haven’t release a flagship Z series in a few years, so it’s due for a refresh.
EDIT: let me just add before the brigade comes after me - mini LED or C-series LG OLEDs are probably the best picks for the majority of people considering the price/performance differences and that most people just want the biggest tv for their budget. That said, A95L/G3/S95C are objectively the best, brightest, and most feature complete TVs on the market with a noticeable jump in quality over every other consumer display available (microLED excluded).
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
^ABL kicked in like a mofo is that picture
tommib
Member
I got a A90J last year and the colour accuracy for Dolby Vision cinema is outstanding. It put me off of going to the cinema. It’s like having the best theatre at home. The Bravia Core app also has automatic calibration for specific films and it’s a showstopper really.
It’s great for the PS5 with automatic HDR calibration and no dimming, even with VRR and 120hz games. To me, coming from a very old HDR LCD it’s like being in the future. GT7 on that set amazes me everyday.
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![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1685439978){kind=avatar}
[Sigma]
Member
I'm excited to see this. Will not consider buying any TV this year till I see what Sony got cooking with their flagship mini led this year. That said, my no1 priority is still motion. Particularly at lower frame rate. I'm not as high on this brightness war these tvs are having.
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Sleepwalker
Member
I turned off ABL in my samsung s95b
If it burn it burns i'll just buy another tv when it happens.
Looks glorious lol
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Will this Mini LED flagship be available in smaller screen sizes?? Most likely not.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Doubtful unfortunately
Crispy Gamer
Member
So Sony's reason for focusing on mini-led has more to do with their upcoming master monitor apparently it's 4,000 nits and their future movies are going to be mastered @ extremely high nits. I love my OLED but as a technology I doubt it'll ever pass 2,000 nits and that presents a problem for the future of entertainment because games will start being mastered at much higher nits as well. Currently QD-OLED/ MLA is objectively the best display tech but in 3-5 years it might be mini-led I'm hearing micro-led as a consumer device is at minimum 10 years away interesting times ahead we'll see if Sony can capture that trinitron magic again with this mini-led I can't believe I'm getting excited for LCD tech again.
apparently it's 4,000 nits and their future movies are going to be mastered @ extremely high nits. I love my OLED but as a technology I doubt it'll ever pass 2,000 nits and that presents a problem for the future of entertainment because games will start being mastered at much higher nits as well. Currently QD-OLED/ MLA is objectively the best display tech but in 3-5 years it might be mini-led I'm hearing micro-led as a consumer device is at minimum 10 years away interesting times ahead we'll see if Sony can capture that trinitron magic again with this mini-led I can't believe I'm getting excited for LCD tech again.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
So Sony's reason for focusing on mini-led has more to do with their upcoming master monitor
Isn't Dolby Vision already mastered at 4000 nits? We shouldn't let OLED's deficiencies hold progress back.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
And rated up to 10k nits if memory serves me right
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Didn't you hear Heisenberg. Apparently like Sony, Dolby is in on the grand conspiracy to make OLED tech look bad. Surprised Dolby is going through such lengths to help Sony sell High Nit Mini LEDs.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I expect come CES we are going to see some insanely bright TVs and that 115" Hisense Linus has 5k nits in SDR
I am glad some people are totally happy with their HDR produced by OLED TVs but if I can grab something like what he has that hits 5k nits and beyond from here in the US later this year
One size does not fit all here
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I expect come CES we are going to see some insanely bright TVs and that 115" Hisense Linus has 5k nits in SDR
I am glad some people are totally happy with their HDR produced by OLED TVs but if I can grab something like what he has that hits 5k nits and beyond from here in the US later this year
One size does not fit all here
I would love for them to offer the UX in 65" in the states. Would replace the QN90A with it.
Lethal01
Member
I need fullscreen, not peak
and again a screen that isnt trash at showing a scrolling image at 60fps
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Unknown Soldier
Member
HDR 10, HDR 10+, and Dolby Vision all go up to 4000 nits with technical capability up to 10,000 nits but virtually all Hollywood studio content is mastered up to 1,000 nits due to how human vision works. The baseline median brightness for all SDR and HDR content is supposed to be 150 nits in a pitch black movie theater auditorium, at that brightness level, the highest practical brightness you can make HDR highlights is about 1,000 nits.
Beyond that and you will begin to cause visible discomfort in humans and their pupils will contract in much the same way going outside on a sunny day after watching a movie at a theater will make you squint getting the sudden brightness change. This is not ideal for enjoying a movie, so actually trying to blast 4,000 nits of HDR brightness at someone is not going to realistically happen.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
So Dolby and Sony haven't taken any of this into consideration in their research and intent to master content at 4000 nits?
Unknown Soldier
Member
The important spec that no one talks about is brightness in a 100% window, i.e. full screen white. To meet the requirements of 1,000 nits when the screen is just a white field, you need more effective brightness in a limited size field. About 4,000 nits in a 10% window, the commonly used spec to sound impressive, can also deliver 1,000 nits in a 100% window without ABL.
Basically it's a dumb spec war to have impressive sounding numbers on something that doesn't actually matter. No content will actually be mastered to actually try and send 4,000 nits to your eyeballs in the highlights. I hope. Of course video games are a different story, those can go as bright as you want. We'll see how it goes with that.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Why is correct question. Flagship? Mini LED’s are improving, but imo OLEDS are still very to beat.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Forgot about NITS. OLED is still working on that.