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My take on The Matrix Ressurections. (This thread is Spoilers made flesh)

O-N-E

Member
It's utter trash, top to bottom. The plot, the characters, the dialogue, the look, the action. All of it. Nostalgic meta-nonsense romance.

The constant flashbacks to the old trilogy just makes it so much more obvious.

It's shit-tier.
 

Konnor

Member
Reloaded is the movie debunked "the One" prophecy.

Even if you ignore that, there are was within the lore of the previous movies that can explain this:

1. Trinity's kiss in the first movie brought Neo back to life, awakening as the One (aka the anomaly). So she already has a direct connection there.

2. Neo brings Trinity back to life in Reloaded, perhaps giving her some of his code (ala, like Smith got parts of his code)

3. This is a new version of the Matrix, meaning there will be another anomaly. If the system doesn't take into account that the previous One was carried over to this new version, that could mean there are two anomalies.

Regardless, I found it to be one of the most satisfying moments in the series to see Trinity awaken after her and Neo both had been through so much and were willing to accept death over forgetting each other again. There are several moments in this movie that are among the best in the series. Maybe I'm overly sentimental, but seeing Neo and Trinity reach for each other in the flashback is heartbreaking, and when they finally reach each other in cafe, I got serious chills.


You can invent clues to retcon movies all day long, the reality of the situation is that in that world Trinity suddenly flying was stupid as fuck and they only did it for feminist brownie points. Not to mention the terrible direction of it, they both looked like fucking idiots hanging from wires there and it was so. goddamn. obvious.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
You can invent clues to retcon movies all day long, the reality of the situation is that in that world Trinity suddenly flying was stupid as fuck and they only did it for feminist brownie points. Not to mention the terrible direction of it, they both looked like fucking idiots hanging from wires there and it was so. goddamn. obvious.

I think some of you are a little too paranoid, sometimes.
 

Konnor

Member
I mean, the main theory I've seen makes sense, and is simple. People talking about things they like is normal. You seem angry about this.


Thanks for explaining to me what I'm feeling but I am more disappointed at another Hollywood fuckup than angry. The movie had the potential to be very good but the Wackowskis fucked it up thanks to their incompetence and pandering.
 
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TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Thanks for explaining to me what I'm feeling but I am more disappointed at another Hollywood fuckup than angry. The movie had the potential to be very good but the Wackowskis fucked it up thanks to their incompetence and pandering.

Okay.

I'm sorry it was a disappointment for you, I guess, haha.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Yeah sure, and the guys doing this to explain how the fuck Trinity pretty much became the new Neo are the normal ones, right?

Bro she literally revives Neo in the first movie when he dies. There’s nothing new to the idea that their powers or whatever are somewhat codependent or intertwined. He’s not the one without her, and shitting your pants over her being able to do cool stuff too is kinda embarrassing
 
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Bragr

Member
ow the edge. lol
I thought, you know, I am sure if I look a few posts up on this page I'm gonna see you fanboy about the movie. And behold:

"where as they died at the end of revolutions, they now live at the end of resurrections and are together in rekindled love"

HAHAHAHA.
 

Bragr

Member
We're better off assuming this film never happened and the original trilogy ended there. Plot wise, this movie is a fucking disgrace.
You can get away with a lot today, people don't watch a lot of movies, the standard is low. As long as you get it onto HBO, Disney, or Netflix, all you need is heavy promotion and people will watch. At least with the cinema, you had to convince yourself the movie needed to be worth a ticket before going, now, it's just there, no barrier for entry.

But it's bizarre to see people argue for this movie. It reminds me of seeing a clip of a Justin Bieber concert, and you see all these kids dancing and singing, and then suddenly there is like a 50 year old woman singing and dancing with them, and you cringe, because you know the woman is borderline insane. That's how it's like when people argue for stuff like Matrix Ressurections or Thunder Force or Eternals or some of these clearly obvious disasters that are riddled with bad actors, poorly written scripts, and bad directors. It's why we have stuff like Alex Jones, or the earth is flat theories, it's people that just don't get it. They just don't get how shit works.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
You can get away with a lot today, people don't watch a lot of movies, the standard is low. As long as you get it onto HBO, Disney, or Netflix, all you need is heavy promotion and people will watch. At least with the cinema, you had to convince yourself the movie needed to be worth a ticket before going, now, it's just there, no barrier for entry.

But it's bizarre to see people argue for this movie. It reminds me of seeing a clip of a Justin Bieber concert, and you see all these kids dancing and singing, and then suddenly there is like a 50 year old woman singing and dancing with them, and you cringe, because you know the woman is borderline insane. That's how it's like when people argue for stuff like Matrix Ressurections or Thunder Force or Eternals or some of these clearly obvious disasters that are riddled with bad actors, poorly written scripts, and bad directors. It's why we have stuff like Alex Jones, or the earth is flat theories, it's people that just don't get it. They just don't get how shit works.

Or people just have differing tastes? I've never been compared to a flat earther before tonight. Neat.
 

Bragr

Member
Or people just have differing tastes? I've never been compared to a flat earther before tonight. Neat.
The different taste excuses have always been weak. If a kid starts to eat sand, would you simply say they have different tastes?

A flat earther doesn't understand how science works, it's alien to them. They are illiterate when it comes to science. You haven't watched a lot of movies, what makes a good or bad script, or what makes good or bad acting, is alien to you. You are illiterate when it comes to movies.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
The different taste excuses have always been weak. If a kid starts to eat sand, would you simply say they have different tastes?

A flat earther doesn't understand how science works, it's alien to them. They are illiterate when it comes to science. You haven't watched a lot of movies, what makes a good or bad script, or what makes good or bad acting, is alien to you. You are illiterate when it comes to movies.

You know how many movies I've seen? IS THAT YOU, MOM?!
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
Not nearly as bad as people have said, although I never thought 2 and 3 were as bad as most people thought either.

My least favorite in the franchise as it stands now, but still enjoyed aspects of it.
 
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SuperGooey

Member
You can invent clues to retcon movies all day long, the reality of the situation is that in that world Trinity suddenly flying was stupid as fuck and they only did it for feminist brownie points. Not to mention the terrible direction of it, they both looked like fucking idiots hanging from wires there and it was so. goddamn. obvious.
Trinity and Neo's connection has been a thing since the first movie--Neo's love for her is the reason he is the anomaly of anomalies. Exploring that connection in a sequel doesn't retcon anything, and doesn't require me to "invent" anything.

If you don't like it, fine. But I want you to explain to me what is being retconned here because Resurrections "retcons" as much as Reloaded.
 
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pramod

Member
It was just meh, so average. I only like the first part cuz it had you trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Once Neo was unplugged again it was just like been there, done that, but nowhere as good action, music, or stuntwork as the originals.
 

sol_bad

Member
The different taste excuses have always been weak. If a kid starts to eat sand, would you simply say they have different tastes?

A flat earther doesn't understand how science works, it's alien to them. They are illiterate when it comes to science. You haven't watched a lot of movies, what makes a good or bad script, or what makes good or bad acting, is alien to you. You are illiterate when it comes to movies.

If you think this movie is an absolute piece of shit I'd argue that you haven't seen many movies and don't understand how they work. There are many many movies out there that are far worse than Resurrections.
 

Konnor

Member
Trinity and Neo's connection has been a thing since the first movie--Neo's love for her is the reason he is the anomaly of anomalies. Exploring that connection in a sequel doesn't retcon anything, and doesn't require me to "invent" anything.

If you don't like it, fine. But I want you to explain to me what is being retconned here because Resurrections "retcons" as much as Reloaded.

Their love and how much Neo cared for Trinity and vise versa has been a thing since the first movie, everything else is retconned bullshit. And speaking of retconned bullshit...


Bro she literally revives Neo in the first movie when he dies. There’s nothing new to the idea that their powers or whatever are somewhat codependent or intertwined. He’s not the one without her, and shitting your pants over her being able to do cool stuff too is kinda embarrassing

She OBVIOUSLY didn't resurrect him, go watch the first movie, she only told him that she loved him. OBVIOUSLY the scene was trying to show the power of love which has been a theme since the first movie, not that Trinity just resurrected Neo, Jesus Christ...
 
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Majukun

Member
Yes, we could, I don't see why you flavor that like it's a derogatory term, either. Theory crafting and in depth discussion has always been a linchpin of a lot of the FUN to be had with The Matrix in my group of friends growing up. You're shown a lot in these movies, and you have to infer and extrapolate a lot of things, some of which could be spot on or entirely incorrect. Things like what exactly Seraph was or who he used to be weren't explicitly told to the audience before, but some of us had fun going along the breadcrumb trail given the facts we had. His code was weird, he utilized back doors like a lot of Exiles, he knew Smith, specifically. Same can be said for a lot of things. What was the purpose and exact location of Mobil Station in Revolutions? Going further back, before we had the answers, what's with the wall of monitors all focused on Neo as Smith was interrogating him in the first movie? What allowed him to become to One? Headcanon is a huge part of this franchise, you're missing the forest for the trees if you only go along with explicitly narrated facts.

And for the second point, I get what you mean, and the ending was severely lacking in a subway station fight/Super Burly Brawl style climax (the same thing that drags Reloaded down for me) but I was never under the impression that we'd see The Analyst exhibit really any confrontational skills worth a damn it a scenario where his opponents were right in front of him. Agents probably feared him (I'm gonna do the headcanon thing again, warning) because he had complete mastery over his version of the Matrix. Agents are connected to the source, assuming that detail stayed the same from the original trilogy. The Architect, and by proxy The Analyst, if we go with a body metaphor, is the arm of the Source's brain. A digital manifestation of the entire machine collectives' will and duty to keep its system running correctly.

I figure it's kind of like the Geth, where overall, they all have the same goal and purpose, but they're still allowed control and autonomy of their specific forms. The Analyst is probably concerned is energy output rates because, similar to established facts in the previous trilogy, were he to perform his task poorly, or inefficiently, or not meet a quota we're unaware of, he would likely be replaced by a program that could. The Agents got upgraded once Neo emerged as The One, The Oracle talks about how The Merovingian's entire criminal underworld is made of (or was made of) programs that were outclassed or broken in some way that took refuge from being deleted.

Programs are established as having free will in The Matrix, and The Analyst was drunk off of his own power, and what do men with power fear? Losing that power. That's why I think the cat and mouse between Neo and The Analyst works. It's a struggle of freedom vs. Order, of schedule vs. Autonomy, of ambition vs. Complacency. The Analyst uses every trick in his book to thwart Neo freeing Trinity. The horde, the bombers, the Agents, manipulating the time around Neo, mindfucking him into thinking he's going to kill Trinity, assuming the role of his therapist and planting the idea that he's losing it and making him dependent on the blue pill, erasing entire portions of his memory, changing his appearance to make him unfindable. The whole movie was like The Truman Show if it was directed by Chris Nolan. It was a blind man trying to escape from a sadistic rich dude who had cameras on every street corner.

But I dunno. You'll take what you want from it. According to what's his dick, I'm just one of those brain dead idiots, or whatever.
i usually prefer to theorycraft based on proofs and elements from the story itself, not just building my own idea without a concrete basis on anything that gets said or done in the work i'm theorycrafting about.
That's how i have fun, I of course don't wanna to ruin yours.

as per the analyst..in his (brief) description of what happened after neo's death, it's he of his own volition that took charge of rebuilding neo and use him as his battery, he has been not placed there by someone else, and in fact the machine cvil war seems to entail that they are not an unique collective consciousness anymore (again, it's hinted that this is due to neo and that's why his plight still has meaning despite the matrix still being there), but there are factions and political interest and "money" involved...they re essentially transforming into humans, much like programs started doing in the original trilogy...Ai is evolving and with that comes EGO, self interest, greed but also apparently longing for freedom, ability to wen relationships, will to create stuff, and in general, self determination.

also, him saying that "he was there" when neo died, implies that he is in fact not a program,nut that he has a physical body in the real world , he can enter the mtrix, much like humans do, but outside there should be a machine with his consciousness, or better, his AI and programming, inside, much like the sentient machines we saw in this movie.

as i said in another post, there is a seed of interesting concepts behind the curtain in this movie..instead we got "neo really wanna save trinity" storyline..intimate maybe, but not necessarely interesting.

The swarm and bomb mode are another part that i didn't really like for one simple reason, they attack the integrity of the matrix.
In the first trilogy every time an agent invaded a body i was somehing that was easily covered up...and while we had some exception like the highway chase in matrix 2 (whch was not caused by the architect anyway but the merovingian if i remember correctly, so a rogue-ish program), in general what the agents did was never blatant enough that people could get a glimpse of behind th curtains...also we never really knew what happened to the people that an agent absorbs..does the real body die in the real world, do they get back their bodies back and their mind wiped? it does seem to be the second case because otherwise the end of matrix 3 means that smith successfully wiped the entire human population and that only human outside of the matrix are still alive, but yet we get an happy hopefully end of the trilogy, so we can imply that's not the case, and that those people whose avatars got infected are indeed fine.

now take swarm and bomb mode, where mass manpulation of people happens, and in the second case mass suicide...that is not really anything subtle that can be covered up..basically the movie treats evey human inside the matrix as an expendable life, like videogame npcs instead of actual humans linked to the matrix.
 

Majukun

Member
That was one of the best sequences in the movie: Keanu receives a Geoff Keighley award and immediately attempts suicide
how is that an attempted suicide..in the scene he is basically already without footing,..that guy died and that's why i thought that the movie would explain what really happened and th discrepancy between the analyst saying that he attempted suicide, and the fact that he actually did it but was still alive..and instead..ok.
 

Majukun

Member
Bro she literally revives Neo in the first movie when he dies. There’s nothing new to the idea that their powers or whatever are somewhat codependent or intertwined. He’s not the one without her, and shitting your pants over her being able to do cool stuff too is kinda embarrassing
she kissed him in real life, so that has nothing to do with whatever power inside the matrix she gets in this movie.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
she kissed him in real life, so that has nothing to do with whatever power inside the matrix she gets in this movie.
Uh huh, so even though the Oracle told her she’d fall in love with the one and Neo has real life powers like being able to see after he’s blinded or taking out squids IRL, clearly Trinity has nothing to do with any of that and even though the series opens up with a scene of her whooping ass, it has now devolved into feminist propaganda because she’s learned to use more powers
 

Doczu

Member
i usually prefer to theorycraft based on proofs and elements from the story itself, not just building my own idea without a concrete basis on anything that gets said or done in the work i'm theorycrafting about.
That's how i have fun, I of course don't wanna to ruin yours.

as per the analyst..in his (brief) description of what happened after neo's death, it's he of his own volition that took charge of rebuilding neo and use him as his battery, he has been not placed there by someone else, and in fact the machine cvil war seems to entail that they are not an unique collective consciousness anymore (again, it's hinted that this is due to neo and that's why his plight still has meaning despite the matrix still being there), but there are factions and political interest and "money" involved...they re essentially transforming into humans, much like programs started doing in the original trilogy...Ai is evolving and with that comes EGO, self interest, greed but also apparently longing for freedom, ability to wen relationships, will to create stuff, and in general, self determination.

also, him saying that "he was there" when neo died, implies that he is in fact not a program,nut that he has a physical body in the real world , he can enter the mtrix, much like humans do, but outside there should be a machine with his consciousness, or better, his AI and programming, inside, much like the sentient machines we saw in this movie.

as i said in another post, there is a seed of interesting concepts behind the curtain in this movie..instead we got "neo really wanna save trinity" storyline..intimate maybe, but not necessarely interesting.

The swarm and bomb mode are another part that i didn't really like for one simple reason, they attack the integrity of the matrix.
In the first trilogy every time an agent invaded a body i was somehing that was easily covered up...and while we had some exception like the highway chase in matrix 2 (whch was not caused by the architect anyway but the merovingian if i remember correctly, so a rogue-ish program), in general what the agents did was never blatant enough that people could get a glimpse of behind th curtains...also we never really knew what happened to the people that an agent absorbs..does the real body die in the real world, do they get back their bodies back and their mind wiped? it does seem to be the second case because otherwise the end of matrix 3 means that smith successfully wiped the entire human population and that only human outside of the matrix are still alive, but yet we get an happy hopefully end of the trilogy, so we can imply that's not the case, and that those people whose avatars got infected are indeed fine.

now take swarm and bomb mode, where mass manpulation of people happens, and in the second case mass suicide...that is not really anything subtle that can be covered up..basically the movie treats evey human inside the matrix as an expendable life, like videogame npcs instead of actual humans linked to the matrix.
But they're not humans. They are literally bots/npc's - they are populating the server so thst it doesn't look as empty.
That's why one of the suicide bombers ran out of his bed while his wife started screaming when he jumped out of the window. She was real, he was not.
 

Majukun

Member
Uh huh, so even though the Oracle told her she’d fall in love with the one and Neo has real life powers like being able to see after he’s blinded or taking out squids IRL, clearly Trinity has nothing to do with any of that and even though the series opens up with a scene of her whooping ass, it has now devolved into feminist propaganda because she’s learned to use more powers
didn't say anything about feminist propaganda, please stop attributing to me what other users are saying, otherwise we get nowhere.
 

Majukun

Member
But they're not humans. They are literally bots/npc's - they are populating the server so thst it doesn't look as empty.
That's why one of the suicide bombers ran out of his bed while his wife started screaming when he jumped out of the window. She was real, he was not.
that would mean that somehow they are all just RELLY lucky to have the right amount of fake npc always in any location at any given time?

I mean i can accept the answer because it also explains trinity's family (that would be kind of mean if she just abandoned her family to go away with her ex boyfriend)..although trinity has a line about the analyst "using children"..she meant trying to use fake children to sway her? because if they were npc, no real child was hurt.

still it sounds way too blatant as a move to make since it's not as easily coverable as an agent taking someone's body on loan for a bit and i guess then leaving it without memory afterwards in the trilogy
 

Doczu

Member
that would mean that somehow they are all just RELLY lucky to have the right amount of fake npc always in any location at any given time?

I mean i can accept the answer because it also explains trinity's family (that would be kind of mean if she just abandoned her family to go away with her ex boyfriend)..although trinity has a line about the analyst "using children"..she meant trying to use fake children to sway her? because if they were npc, no real child was hurt.

still it sounds way too blatant as a move to make since it's not as easily coverable as an agent taking someone's body on loan for a bit and i guess then leaving it without memory afterwards in the trilogy
Yeah i ain't explaining them, the whole last big fight would just make everyone question and reject reality, effectively making the Analyst the worst care taker of the simulation
 

Jsisto

Member
With a series like the Matrix, I feel like you really just need to have a broad suspension of disbelief or you'll drive yourself nuts trying to make sense of things and justify whether something makes sense/fits some pre-established rules. Technology surely has come a long way, but It's such an abstract concept that has no basis in our current reality. Sure it's fun to speculate about things and there clearly needs to be overall plot cohesion, but I always felt like the series was more about the themes and message than whether or not it the rules of the Matrix itself are consistent.
 

Konnor

Member
Uh huh, so even though the Oracle told her she’d fall in love with the one and Neo has real life powers like being able to see after he’s blinded or taking out squids IRL, clearly Trinity has nothing to do with any of that and even though the series opens up with a scene of her whooping ass, it has now devolved into feminist propaganda because she’s learned to use more powers


What does this even have to do with Neo getting powers in the Matrix? Even if we take your six degrees of Kevin Bacon theory where you link a bunch of irrelevant shit together to try to explain the kiss as some magical power transfer, what does the Oracle have to do with it?

The first movie was so simple, the strength of human love overpowered the cold hard logic of the machines, Neo was so in love and that love didn't let him die (or didn't let himself die). Now it's a convoluted idiotic theory about Trinity kissing Neo and through that kiss giving him powers or some shit. I mean, holy shit....
 
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TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
i usually prefer to theorycraft based on proofs and elements from the story itself, not just building my own idea without a concrete basis on anything that gets said or done in the work i'm theorycrafting about.
That's how i have fun, I of course don't wanna to ruin yours.

as per the analyst..in his (brief) description of what happened after neo's death, it's he of his own volition that took charge of rebuilding neo and use him as his battery, he has been not placed there by someone else, and in fact the machine cvil war seems to entail that they are not an unique collective consciousness anymore (again, it's hinted that this is due to neo and that's why his plight still has meaning despite the matrix still being there), but there are factions and political interest and "money" involved...they re essentially transforming into humans, much like programs started doing in the original trilogy...Ai is evolving and with that comes EGO, self interest, greed but also apparently longing for freedom, ability to wen relationships, will to create stuff, and in general, self determination.

also, him saying that "he was there" when neo died, implies that he is in fact not a program,nut that he has a physical body in the real world , he can enter the mtrix, much like humans do, but outside there should be a machine with his consciousness, or better, his AI and programming, inside, much like the sentient machines we saw in this movie.

as i said in another post, there is a seed of interesting concepts behind the curtain in this movie..instead we got "neo really wanna save trinity" storyline..intimate maybe, but not necessarely interesting.

The swarm and bomb mode are another part that i didn't really like for one simple reason, they attack the integrity of the matrix.
In the first trilogy every time an agent invaded a body i was somehing that was easily covered up...and while we had some exception like the highway chase in matrix 2 (whch was not caused by the architect anyway but the merovingian if i remember correctly, so a rogue-ish program), in general what the agents did was never blatant enough that people could get a glimpse of behind th curtains...also we never really knew what happened to the people that an agent absorbs..does the real body die in the real world, do they get back their bodies back and their mind wiped? it does seem to be the second case because otherwise the end of matrix 3 means that smith successfully wiped the entire human population and that only human outside of the matrix are still alive, but yet we get an happy hopefully end of the trilogy, so we can imply that's not the case, and that those people whose avatars got infected are indeed fine.

now take swarm and bomb mode, where mass manpulation of people happens, and in the second case mass suicide...that is not really anything subtle that can be covered up..basically the movie treats evey human inside the matrix as an expendable life, like videogame npcs instead of actual humans linked to the matrix.

Theory crafting based on proof.

The movies explicitly had a scene where Neo revived Trinity on the rooftop. He stuck his hand inside of her body, grabbed her heart and pumped it. They are both code in the Matrix. That was his code interacting with hers. How do I know that this code mixing affects the other party? Because when it happened with Smith and Neo, Smith gained freedom, a MASSIVE amount of agency, the ability to duplicate and freaking flight. You know, the thing that everyone is bawwwing over Trinity doing now. Yes, there wasn't an emergency brake on the film for a fifteen minute scrolling text exposition dump explaining it, but it's not as if I'm saying "Son Goku used Instant Transmission and taught her in the auto shop while Kush watched, totes plausible kek," There's an established precedent.

As for The Analyst, I think you're off the mark. He's clearly a program, he stated as much as he's the upgrade/replacement/evolution of The Architect. Were he capable of existing in the real world, it would mean he was a human, which would mean he'd need a broadcast point to jack in, and the equipment to do so, and most likely an Operator. Bugs' crew knows about The Analyst and his level of power, which means other people would as well, which makes it highly unlikely that anyone in Io would be working alongside him or devoting physical resources to him.
 

Konnor

Member
With a series like the Matrix, I feel like you really just need to have a broad suspension of disbelief or you'll drive yourself nuts trying to make sense of things and justify whether something makes sense/fits some pre-established rules. Technology surely has come a long way, but It's such an abstract concept that has no basis in our current reality. Sure it's fun to speculate about things and there clearly needs to be overall plot cohesion, but I always felt like the series was more about the themes and message than whether or not it the rules of the Matrix itself are consistent.


You're pretty much saying here that the Matrix franchise was always a convoluted mess and I certainly don't agree. Until this movie it followed all its per-established rules pretty faithfully, only in the fourth it has managed to create this clusterfuck where it ignores all the rules just to blindly push for themes.
 
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Majukun

Member
Theory crafting based on proof.

The movies explicitly had a scene where Neo revived Trinity on the rooftop. He stuck his hand inside of her body, grabbed her heart and pumped it. They are both code in the Matrix. That was his code interacting with hers. How do I know that this code mixing affects the other party? Because when it happened with Smith and Neo, Smith gained freedom, a MASSIVE amount of agency, the ability to duplicate and freaking flight. You know, the thing that everyone is bawwwing over Trinity doing now. Yes, there wasn't an emergency brake on the film for a fifteen minute scrolling text exposition dump explaining it, but it's not as if I'm saying "Son Goku used Instant Transmission and taught her in the auto shop while Kush watched, totes plausible kek," There's an established precedent.
[/QUOTE]
neo ansorbing agent smith (and making him blow up afterwards) and him pumping trinity's heartare nowhere the same event though...but again, theorycraft and all.
As for The Analyst, I think you're off the mark. He's clearly a program, he stated as much as he's the upgrade/replacement/evolution of The Architect. Were he capable of existing in the real world, it would mean he was a human, which would mean he'd need a broadcast point to jack in, and the equipment to do so, and most likely an Operator. Bugs' crew knows about The Analyst and his level of power, which means other people would as well, which makes it highly unlikely that anyone in Io would be working alongside him or devoting physical resources to him.
he himself said "I was there when you died",and neo died outside of the matrix, so he can't be a program since programs existing outside of the matrix is a thing only happening now and not at the time of the first trilogy, through that magnetism stuff.

also no, it doesn't mean he is human, machines also exist in the real world and apparently given the civil war and the fact that part of them are now friends with humanity, they are nowhere as much as a collective consciousness as we thought they were (or maybe, again, it was thanks to neo that somehow some of them gained a singular sentience..at least that's what the movie hints for when neo and Niobe are talking about the post matrix 3).
and again, neo's body was remade in the real world anyway, so the analyst can't just be a program with no physical presence in the real world.
You're pretty much saying here that the Matrix franchise was always a convoluted mess and I certainly don't agree. Until this movie it followed all its per-established rules pretty faithfully, only in the fourth it has managed to create this clusterfuck where it ignores all the rules just to blindly push for themes.
what rule allowed neo to see without eyes in the real world in matrix 3?
 
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SuperGooey

Member
Their love and how much Neo cared for Trinity and vise versa has been a thing since the first movie, everything else is retconned bullshit. And speaking of retconned bullshit...
You still aren't saying what has been retconned. Tell me what you believe this new movie retcons. No need to be rude and insulting to people, especially if you can't answer this simple question.

She OBVIOUSLY didn't resurrect him, go watch the first movie, she only told him that she loved him. OBVIOUSLY the scene was trying to show the power of love which has been a theme since the first movie, not that Trinity just resurrected Neo, Jesus Christ...
Neo is literally dead, Trinity kisses him, and Neo comes back to life. There is clearly something there. It's symbolic (the kiss of life/power of love). And often in Matrix movies, symbolic things also have literal functions as well. Neo returns the favor to Trinity in Reloaded when he brings her back to life. That film states the love he and Trinity share sets him apart from all previous anomalies, and is the whole reason for the entire series.

Nothing in Resurrections retcons this. The connection is only explored further; much like how Reloaded/Revolutions explored the connection between Smith and Neo.
 
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Javthusiast

Member
"You see this movie is shit on purpose as a meta commentary on shitty reboots."

-Intellectual fans of this trash.

mom son GIF
 

Doczu

Member
You still aren't saying what has been retconned. Tell me what you believe this new movie retcons. No need to be rude and insulting to people, especially if you can't answer this simple question.
Well i'm not the poster you quoted but to me Smith's death has been retconned. He got literally obliterated in Revolutions and him either doding a purge that came afterwards or having some crazy plot armor to keep him alive is plain stupid.
 

SuperGooey

Member
Well i'm not the poster you quoted but to me Smith's death has been retconned. He got literally obliterated in Revolutions and him either doding a purge that came afterwards or having some crazy plot armor to keep him alive is plain stupid.
Smith also died in the first movie.

If Neo can be resurrected, so can Smith. I'm not a huge fan of how it was done in Resurrections, but Smith and Neo share the same code. One can't exist without the other, as the Oracle states in Revolutions. Then again, not everything the Oracle said can be trusted since she is the master manipulator of the Matrix, but that's a whole other can of worms.
 
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Konnor

Member
You still aren't saying what has been retconned. Tell me what you believe this new movie retcons. No need to be rude and insulting to people, especially if you can't answer this simple question.


Neo is literally dead, Trinity kisses him, and Neo comes back to life. There is clearly something there. It's symbolic (the kiss of life/power of love). And often in Matrix movies, symbolic things also have literal functions as well. Neo returns the favor to Trinity in Reloaded when he brings her back to life. That film states the love he and Trinity share sets him apart from all previous anomalies, and is the whole reason for the entire series.

Nothing in Resurrections retcons this. The connection is only explored further; much like how Reloaded/Revolutions explored the connection between Smith and Neo.

What is being retconned is Trinity having Neo powers, please follow the discussion. Everything in the first trilogy explained that Neo is a something special, a problem to the code, and yes he might not have been The One but he and he alone had these powers. Retconned bullshit doesn't refer to anyone here, I'm "being rude" just to the movie.
 
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Ulysses 31

Member
What is being retconned is Trinity having Neo powers, please follow the discussion. Everything in the first trilogy explained that Neo is a something special, a problem to the code, and yes he might not have been The One but he and he alone had these powers. Retconned bullshit doesn't refer to anyone here, I'm "being rude" just to the movie.
Didn't Reloaded reveal that The One was another system of control meant to keep most people buying into the matrix reality? Neo is The One but a "special" One who goes beyond the propose of the role the Architect/Oracle designed it for.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
neo ansorbing agent smith (and making him blow up afterwards) and him pumping trinity's heartare nowhere the same event though...but again, theorycraft and all

If you can't see a similarity between Smith and Neo's code interacting to perform an action outside of the usual conditions of the Matrix (Smith blowing up, or dying) and Trinity and Neo's code mixing to perform an action outside of the usual conditions of the Matrix (Trinity coming back to life from death) then I don't know what to tell you. Both actions are explicitly possible because Neo is The One and has powers beyond what is possible of normal humans in the Matrix. If that interaction gave Smith a whole plethora of powers an Agent by definition can't have, then why is it so absurd to think the same can't be said of Trinity?
 

Doczu

Member
Smith also died in the first movie.

If Neo can be resurrected, so can Smith. I'm not a huge fan of how it was done in Resurrections, but Smith and Neo share the same code. One can't exist without the other, as the Oracle states in Revolutions. Then again, not everything the Oracle said can be trusted since she is the master manipulator of the Matrix, but that's a whole other can of worms.
True, but the gist of it is that Smith (and any agent) can't exist physically in the Matrix without taking over a body, so after he got deleted he should have been gone for good
 

SuperGooey

Member
What is being retconned is Trinity having Neo powers, please follow the discussion. Everything in the first trilogy explained that Neo is a something special, a problem to the code, and yes he might not have been The One but he and he alone had these powers. Retconned bullshit doesn't refer to anyone here, I'm "being rude" just to the movie.
Everything in the original trilogy stated that Neo was special because of his connection to Trinity. This movie developers this idea further. That's what sequels can do, take past concepts and evolve them. This isn't the first for a Matrix sequel. Here are a couple examples of other advancements in lore/plot:

1) We thought the One of was special, and the path of the One would end the war. Turns out, as we learn in Reloaded, the path of the One only leads to the destruction of Zion--the complete opposite of what we learned in the first movie. It was the path that Neo took, which was lead by his specific love for Trinity, that lead to the end of the war.

2) We thought the Oracle was predicting the future, but it turns out she was manipulating everyone so that Trinity and Neo would fall in love.

These aren't retcons, just advancements in the lore. Revelations that I thought were pretty great.

Anyway, you also need to keep in mind that this is a new version of the Matrix in Resurrections, and it was built by a new architect--the Analyst. The original architect was more about numbers, which would lead his 6 versions of the Matrix to have left over code that would be personified into a person--the anomaly, aka The One. The Analyst built his Matrix in a completely different, more "intuitive" way where Trinity and Neo's feelings act as the source of power for the Matrix. Clearly, this way of running the Matrix must allow for more anomalies maybe because, as the Analyst states--his Matrix is built on feelings, not numbers like the previous versions. It works with the theme of it being a love story between Neo and Trinity, but it also works completely fine as a plot without retconning anything.

In addition to that, even if this were the 7th version of the Matrix built with the old Architect with the same rules, having two anomalies could very likely happen. There would be the 7th anomaly for the 7th Matrix, in addition to the 6th anomaly (Neo) who is a carry over from the previous Matrix version. Bam. Simple explanation.
 
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