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Mibu no ookami
Member
That's absolutely crazy. Uncharted 4 was the best-looking game when it came out and so was TLOU2.
The game looked next-gen on PS4 Pro, again no other games looked better.
jonnyp
Member
Uh, of course it was better looking, it was on a PS4... Still don't think it was a giant leap over UC3, expected more.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
I think technology goes beyond graphics, I wonder if it is something similar to the challenges Bungie faced trying to make another engine for Destiny 2.
Fbh
Member
Yeah Uncharted 2 is still by far the best. It's one of the most influential games from that gen (for better or worse) and IMO still serves as a golden standard of what "cinematic" games should strive for.
Meanwhile Uncharted 4 to me is a textbook example of why modern cinematic games suck.
The philosophies behind both games feel completely different.
Uncharted 2 is like "Hey I have this idea for a cool action heavy gameplay sequence, let's find a way to integrate it into the story"
Uncharted 4 is like "Hey I have an idea for a boring 2 hours long story sequence with little to no action or real gameplay, we absolutely need to add this because story comes before everything"
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Mibu no ookami
Member
That's wildly insane. Again, please let me know a game that looked better than Uncharted 4 when Uncharted 4 came out or a game that looked better than TLOU2 when TLOU2 came out.
Naughty Dog hasn't been topped visually since Uncharted 2 was released.
This is insane revisionist history.
Whitecrow
Banned
Neil ruined your life or something? Why the fuck are you being so agressive. Calm your butt.
I know ND history, Amy Hennig and Bruce straley departures, U4 script changes, Neil imposing his vision and politics on the games, TLOU2 false Joel advertisement.
That have nothing to do on what I could think it's happening.
Mortisfacio
Banned
So we got The Last of Us: Brick Throwing Simulator, Uncharted 4 (boring game until the "At Sea" chapter) and The Last of Us 2: Strong Independent Abby.
Then this studio disappeared as far as new content goes. Has just been PC ports and remasters since.
Then this studio disappeared as far as new content goes. Has just been PC ports and remasters since.
Loxus
Member
What happened like what exactly?
We know Naughty Dog is working on 3 games.
A new IP, TLOU Part 3 and Fraction 2.
They last game was released in 2020.
I expect their next game to release in 2024-2026.
I mean, what about the other playstation studios? When was the last time Bend Studio or Sucker Punch release a game?
All Naughty Dog releases has been big time hits. I hope you all keep the same energy when Naughty Dog starts releasing their games.
Vick
Member
Hard to differentiate passion from aggressiveness on a message board. I was being the former.
And to answer your question, he didn't "ruined my life". A huge portion of what I loved about this hobby though? Yes, he did.
I'll just paste an old post on the matter:
"I know this will trigger some people but personally, Neil Druckmann really did single handedly destroyed what I loved the most in this industry.
Uncharted was my favorite series during the whole 360/PS3 era, The Last of Us 2013 my favorite game ever, Naughty Dog my favorite company.
Fast forward today and Uncharted is dead, The Last of Us stuff only pisses me off, and I'm not looking forward to ND future projects.
I've always been an avid Making Of kind of guy, and so ever since 2007 I've always felt Amy, Straley and Balestra brought real magic to that studio.. that studio no longer exists."
midnightAI
Member
All I can say to that is.... Breakups can be tough
(And you sound like the bitter ex wife)
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Vick
Member
And you sound like a moron, no offense.
The slimy guy destroyed a studio I loved, as much as you can love a fucking company making videogames.
I'm simply calling a spade a spade.
midnightAI
Member
Offense taken, and you sound bitter, actually, no, scrap that, you don't sound bitter, you are bitter.
As for me, Last of Us 2 is my favourite game ever and Uncharted 4 is the second best Uncharted game (it's technically the best, but experiencing part 2 for the first time was better but go back and play all now part 4 is actually the better game)
(Ah yes, the No Offense line, real life's Uno reverse card)
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
ND keeps losing every week it seems. They are ruined.
Vick
Member
Well, sorry if you took offense.
As for the rest, we're clearly from a different branch. Hope you'll keep enjoying future products from this company.
midnightAI
Member
I didn't take offense really, was merely pointing out adding 'no offense' to the end of a potentially offensive line does not make it non offensive.
And I will keep enjoying their games so long as they continue to make games that I want to play. If that ever ends then so be it, I'll get my kicks elsewhere (oy, Sucker Punch, show us Ghost 2 soon please)
Mibu no ookami
Member
People with certain agendas won't stop talking about Day's Gone but Bend hasn't released anything for a year and a half longer than Naughty Dog, and at least Naughty Dog has put out a port and a remake in less time. And like you said, we know that they're working on at least 3 games while we know jack about Bend.
Sucker Punch's game came out right after TLOU2, but do you hear ANYONE complaining about Sucker Punch's production?
Nothing from Media Molecule.
Guerrilla came out with Forbidden West in 2022, but Zero Dawn came out in 2017 (3 years before TLOU2). It was also a cross gen game.
Santa Monica came out with Ragranrok in 2022, but God of War came out in 2018 (2 years before TLOU2). It was also a cross gen game.
Insomniac came out with Spider-Man 2 and Miles Morales, but these games absolutely re-use assets and Spider-Man came out in 2018 (2 years before TLOU2). Rift Apart re-uses assets from Ratchet and Clank 2016.
Bluepoint came out with Demon's Souls just a few months after TLOU2 and haven't come out with another game since. No announcements on what they're working on either.
Polyphony Digital came out with GT7 in 2022, but Gran Turismo Sport released 3 years before TLOU2...
There are people with agendas when it comes to Naughty Dog.
midnightAI
Member
5 years is now normal for AAA development, Insomniac are just freaks
I actually believe Last of Us Part 1 was made for three reasons:
1, to bring their engine up to date for the PS5
2, to release something as they knew their next game would take a while whereas updating the first game with the latest engine + adding updates wouldn't take too long and would only need a smallish team to do it
3, to bring the game up to par with Part 2 so you can play Part 1 and Part 2 back to back with no massive visual difference so it's not so jarring
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Mibu no ookami
Member
They just re-use assets, they're not special.
Physiognomonics
Member
Druckman has nothing to do with gameplay and technology in this game. There are others (very competent) directors for that. Druckman is there to push is marxist agenda through his convoluted stories. He forever ruined the beautiful story and world of TLOU1 with his politics.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Bungie drops the hammer again on Sony games in development.
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midnightAI
Member
all dev studios reuse assets, it's a normal part of development, especially for games that are part of a series. Good game devs would create their original assets at much higher quality than is in game then lower the poly count/texture quality to place in that game, TLoU Part 1 reuses assets from Part 2 (that sounds weird out loud), Factions 2 or Part 3 will reuse some assets from those also
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Mibu no ookami
Member
Naughty Dog games generally take longer because at least the first major game on a new system will be largely a new engine with new assets.
It's also why their games look so much better than everyone else's.
I doubt TLOUP3 would reuse assets from P1.
TLOU2 didn't really utilize assets from TLOU Remastered and though I'm sure they share the same engine, I couldn't see many assets reused from Uncharted 4.
midnightAI
Member
Just curious, how do you know?
There will be plenty reused or modified, remaking from scratch every object is just wasteful. They'll also use plenty of external studios for assets along with places like Quixel, all major AAA studios do that otherwise games would take a lot longer than 5 years to make with the sheer amount of assets these games use these days.
It's very likely there are some objects in Uncharted and Last of Us that are shared/modified between them. Eg. In simple terms, if you want a soda can and you have one already made why would you remake it? Just add a different texture, that same soda can can be used in multiple of your games.
I'm not downplaying what Naughty Dog or any other game studio does, but to just hand wave away Insomniac by saying they reuse assets is disingenuous, they all do it when they can, it's completely normal.
TrebleShot
Member
The great cycle probably off to Microsoft
Stooky
Member
not even close.
EDMIX
Member
Remake still sold well so...clearly someone wanted it.
The generation also literally started during a pandemic, every major studio was effected by this.
Games take longer to create then 10 plus years ago annnnnnnd Sony is no longer announcing games deep in advance.
All that makes sense as to why we don't see something from both teams yet.
They have a new IP being worked on, MP game and likely The Last Of Us 3.
They have zero ode to tell you what they are making, until they feel ready to show it and it seems Sony isn't forcing them to show shit until they are ready.
I would say it would be odd if the whole generation zero games came out from em lol
Stooky
Member
Most ND game art is super custom. Sharing assets between ND games doesn't happen as often as you think. Its one reason why it just takes longer to make. The results speaks for itself.
midnightAI
Member
Maybe, but maybe my point was lost with all the ND talk. I was dismissing the point that the only reason Insomniac makes high quality games as quick as they do simply because of 'asset reuse'
(And still, I very much doubt ND don't reuse assets at all, even Pixar reuse assets, it's completely normal to do so, what's the point of remaking basic props such as cans, bullet casings, stones etc.? Did you know they actually used some assets from Second Son when making TLOU 2 to help with map layout?they didn't use those in the final game of course but it shows they use methods to speed up development)
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FalconPunch
Member
I think the wrong people were promoted at Sony. Jim Ryan, Herman Hulst, Neil. In the case of Jim and Herman, I don’t really think they’re the most creative people in terms of making good games. Under Jim’s tenure, the output of PlayStation studios has not been great. I’m the case of Neil, his tenure at Naughty dog has been a serious regression in terms of output. The proof is in the pudding.
Drizzlehell
Banned
People usually don't abandon their career at a company after such a long time if things are going swimmingly. Him leaving may indicate that either things are bad or the company is heading in a direction that doesn't align with his goals anymore. This could be because his own priorities have shifted, but from my own experience, in most cases people quit when the workplace that they previously liked suddenly changes for the worse.
Stooky
Member
cans and bullet casings are probably reused and don't take anytime to remake that's not a time sync for production. most of those assets get revised. Oh and i know
What Gameplay layout used from second son was just to get basic positioning for streets in Seattle for very early on look development and gameplay development before getting into full production. it helps. It was not used as much as you think tho. Definitely when background art gets that design layout, it was all rebuilt from scratch. design layout rarely stays in the game and it changes when arted up, that layout is just a rough guide.
Pelao
Member
I'd love it if, in addition to making their movie games, they kept a parallel development pipeline for their franchises that are actually fun, like how Insomniac manages to do with Spider-Man and Ratchet & Clank, but then I remember Neil hates the word "fun", so I guess it's hopeless.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Bungie layoffs too.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Dirk Benedict
Member
FeralEcho
Member
It's damn well overcooked by now.The GAAS Factions is dead in the water,they are just salvaging what they can of its corpse which means all they are cooking is some nasty meat.